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Dictator93
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(02-25-2014, 11:32 PM)
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Just saw this while browsing the GDC catalogue (with help from GAF's KKRT PBUH). Two microsoft DX team hosted sessions:

1.Direct3D Futures

Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before!

In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.

If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk.

2.Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform

For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.

Come learn our plans to deliver.

Microsoft caught wind of changing tides in Open GL and Mantle and decided to change? Only time will tell.

Also Open GL is a-changin'

1. Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL

Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious--robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today's OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead--by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.

Multi-vendor cooperation? WHAT IS THIS?!

edit:

Originally Posted by riflen

This is the Khronos Group.

Last edited by Dictator93; 02-26-2014 at 01:53 AM.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(02-25-2014, 11:32 PM)
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Huge news for PC if/when this happens.
Almighty
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:34 PM)
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Not an expert on this stuff, but this sounds like good news to me.
Chobel
I shouldn't make bets because every time I do my tag gets worse
(02-25-2014, 11:34 PM)
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This is great.

EDIT: It won't be that great, if these new DirectX features are Windows 8 exclusive.
Last edited by Chobel; 02-25-2014 at 11:37 PM.
jman2050
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:35 PM)
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This could be interesting.
OdysseusVA
I would recommend betting against me.
(02-25-2014, 11:35 PM)
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Unprecedented
TheFNEffecT
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:36 PM)
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Wow, I'm excited, I hope this and Mantle take-off.
topplehat
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(02-25-2014, 11:36 PM)
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Looks like Mantle has sparked some competition, good.
adamantypants
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(02-25-2014, 11:36 PM)
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Aww yeah
No Love
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:37 PM)
Hell. Fucking. Yes. Developers are going to be able to do even more with modern hardware now.
jediyoshi
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(02-25-2014, 11:37 PM)
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As long as my hardware is supported, I'm a happy camper.
anexanhume
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(02-25-2014, 11:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal14

Huge news for PC if/when this happens.

Yup, better parity across PC and consoles to target features to. Consoles will lose a bit of their optimized edge as a result.
Mr Swine
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(02-25-2014, 11:38 PM)
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But will this work on all GPUs or will it work only on say DX12 hardware?
Darkroronoa
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(02-25-2014, 11:38 PM)
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This looks fantastic!First mantle, then this,good good good ^^
ThreePiMatt
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:38 PM)
It should be reminded that the benefits of Mantle were almost entirely limited to cases of lower end CPUs.
diaspora
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(02-25-2014, 11:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chobel

This is great.

EDIT: It won't be that great, if these new DirectX features are Windows 8 exclusive.

IMO, they'll definitely be Windows 8 as the minimum requirement. 7 is bloated trash comparatively, so it'd make sense to put a thinner abstraction layer on a more efficient, superior OS.
StevieP
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:39 PM)
Irony, because the newest consoles will have thicker APIs if those "10x" numbers are even remotely true
riflen
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(02-25-2014, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dictator93

Multi-vendor cooperation? WHAT IS THIS?!

This is the Khronos Group.
pswii60
(02-25-2014, 11:40 PM)
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I thought DirectX was dead with no further development, or so I read on GAF last year IIRC.
syko de4d
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:41 PM)
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Great News :O
kazebyaka
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:43 PM)
Whoa. This is seriously cool news for pc crowd. Excite.
dr_rus
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(02-25-2014, 11:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dictator93

Multi-vendor cooperation? WHAT IS THIS?!

This is what's been going on just fine since the demise of 3dfx until AMD decided that they know better.

Originally Posted by diaspora

IMO, they'll definitely be Windows 8 as the minimum requirement. 7 is bloated trash comparatively, so it'd make sense to put a thinner abstraction layer on a more efficient, superior OS.

You do know that internally 7 is 6.1 while 8 is 6.2 and they both are nearly identical to Vista which is 6.0 in pretty much all underlying technology, right?
The only reason why something is exclusive to 7 or 8 is because of marketing.
Last edited by dr_rus; 02-25-2014 at 11:47 PM.
ILoveBish
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:43 PM)
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Opengl is the way to go. It's standard across all platforms. I'm glad devs are pushing it.
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(02-25-2014, 11:44 PM)
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CODED TO THE METAL
viveks86
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:44 PM)
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Mantle am cry?
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(02-25-2014, 11:45 PM)
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Time to change my handle to 2D4M3t47
SFenton
Member
(02-25-2014, 11:46 PM)
Could MS's DirectX improvements positively affect the Xbox in any way?
aY227
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(02-25-2014, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThreePiMatt

It should be reminded that the benefits of Mantle were almost entirely limited to cases of lower end CPUs.

They do, for consoles ports. High end PC titles will benefit tremendously from this, like for example MMOs, strategy games, sim games.

Also it will enable new algorithms [like Order-Independent Transparency optimization or cheap shadows for particles] and better compute and multi-gpu utilization across the board.

It will also improve LOD handling by a lot. Rendering vegetation or strains of fur/hair will be cheaper too etc.

It will also ease achieving higher framerates on lower settings in high end titles, because of lower CPU bottlenecks, which will help with VR.
Last edited by aY227; 02-25-2014 at 11:50 PM.
Ricerocket
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(02-25-2014, 11:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by SFenton

Could MS's DirectX improvements positively affect the Xbox in any way?

No. Consoles are already coded to their specific hardware. PC's are trying to mimic that with mantle and this news.
andromeduck
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(02-25-2014, 11:48 PM)
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sounds like OpenGL already had low level API's but they were being under leveraged
dmr87
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(02-25-2014, 11:49 PM)
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Unprecedented metal coding.
riflen
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(02-25-2014, 11:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by SFenton

Could MS's DirectX improvements positively affect the Xbox in any way?

Potentially. Although it's more likely that the API employed for Xbox development already benefits from these kinds of improvements, due to the nature of creating a fixed platform.
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(02-25-2014, 11:52 PM)
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Damn, great news for PC. Too bad it took years to happen (and AMDs Mantle). But beter late than never.
JesseDeya
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:52 PM)

Originally Posted by ITADAKIMASU

No. Consoles are already coded to their specific hardware. PC's are trying to mimic that with mantle and this news.

Why then does the quote say...

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.

I doubt they are talking about the Wii U or PS4 :)
jediyoshi
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(02-25-2014, 11:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThreePiMatt

It should be reminded that the benefits of Mantle were almost entirely limited to cases of lower end CPUs.

I still can't tell if this is a meme or not.
Somnid
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(02-25-2014, 11:52 PM)
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3 low-level APIs? Sounds like we've regressed a bit.
Gattsu25
Formerly Wakune
(02-25-2014, 11:57 PM)
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I WANT OpenGL to win out as it's available on multiple platforms (including Windows).
Minion101
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:57 PM)
I will not buy windows 8.
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(02-25-2014, 11:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Chobel

This is great.

EDIT: It won't be that great, if these new DirectX features are Windows 8 exclusive.

I don't give a damn. If they do it and if it actually works well I'm ready to jump even on a mandatory Windows 9, for all I care.
I'm a bit more concern about hardware support, on the other hand.
It's easy to see some of these improvements being exclusive of future GPUs, which doesn't concern me particularly in terms of economic investment, as much as it does because that would considerably slow down their adoption.
Violater
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(02-25-2014, 11:59 PM)
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Good if.

It works on my 670
It does not require Win 8
DonMigs85
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(02-26-2014, 12:02 AM)
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Maybe this was Mantle's real goal, to help push the GPU industry as a whole forward
TheFNEffecT
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(02-26-2014, 12:03 AM)
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Still don't get the Windows 8 hate, it performs much better than Windows 7 and it cost me $15 for 64-bit pro via promo a long time ago.
Zarx
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(02-26-2014, 12:04 AM)
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nice, these improvements can only help PC gaming. Especially if we can get a similar level of low level hardware access and low CPU/Driver overhead on all the major APIs.
StevieP
Banned
(02-26-2014, 12:04 AM)

Originally Posted by TheFNEffecT

Still don't get the Windows 8 hate, it performs much better than Windows 7 and with nice promo cost me $15 for 64-bit pro.

Metro still sucks with a keyboard and a mouse. MS realized this and you'll see more of that later this year.

Luckily you can install classic shell for free and make windows 8 into a much faster windows 7. Most people who go to use their new laptop to horror don't know of classic menu software though, and it takes them awhile to realize they can start typing the software they want to start.
PlayStationboy
Banned
(02-26-2014, 12:05 AM)
This is huge. Console advantage on a high end PC? I'm in there.
Mr. Wonderful
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(02-26-2014, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by dr_rus


You do know that internally 7 is 6.1 while 8 is 6.2 and they both are nearly identical to Vista which is 6.0 in pretty much all underlying technology, right?
The only reason why something is exclusive to 7 or 8 is because of marketing.

Yes. Only marketing...
TheFNEffecT
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(02-26-2014, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

Metro still sucks with a keyboard and a mouse. MS realized this and you'll see more of that later this year.

Luckily you can install classic shell for free and make windows 8 into a much faster windows 7. Most people who go to use their new laptop to horror don't know of classic menu software though, and it takes them awhile to realize they can start typing the software they want to start.

I guess I didn't really think about Metro, I've erased that from my Windows 8 experience haha.
Caayn
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(02-26-2014, 12:08 AM)
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The war against Mantle has begun.
TheThunder
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(02-26-2014, 12:09 AM)
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As with everything Microsoft promises in the PC games space, I'll believe it when I see it, running on my Windows Crimson 9.4.5 machine since whatever improvements will be exclusive to the that specific release of course...
Demigod Mac
Member
(02-26-2014, 12:13 AM)
All the Windows 8 FUD is really unfounded. You can pretty much banish the Metro interface from existence and get 8 to 7's functionality and usability with a few minor tweaks.

As someone said though, under-the-hood they're all very similar, so yeah, an exclusive API at this point would be pure marketing. I'd expect that of Microsoft with D3D but not AMD/Mantle or Khronos/OpenGL.

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