[mckmas8808]

Of course you do and here it is. All thanks be to 'one' @ B3D. Link to original thread here.

____________________________________________________________________

HOW SOTC WAS CREATED
____________________________________________________________________


The summary (or ended up as a loose translation dump, as it's really hard to compress) of this long interview+commentary by Zenji Nishikawa is like this:

#1 HDR and dynamic tonemapping are emulated by an alternative way

It's pseudo HDR created by clever handwork tricks, basically the same as ICO. The map of the world has box-shaped scene definitions (they call it 'Scene Box') everywhere and when the player gets in it it shows the effects predefined in the Scene Box. If you are in a shrine, the outside looks glaring.

The flow is

1. Render the far sight and save it
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa09.htm
2. Render the near sight
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa10.htm
3. Blend (1) and (2) by using Z-buffer in (2) as a mask pattern
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa11.htm
4. Create a mask pattern shaped by the near sight using Z-buffer in (2)
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa12.htm
5. Resize (4) into 64x64 by a bilinear filter
6. Blend (7) translucently in the last frame by the percentage set per Scene Box
7. Save (6) and use it for rendering the next frame
8. Enlarge (5) with a bilinear filter to an appropriate resolution for bloom effect
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa13.htm
9. Blend (7) and (8) translucently by the percentage set per Scene Box
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa14.htm

These effects are set in all Scene Boxes and smoothly blended between Scene Boxes when the player moves around and that looks like pseudo dynamic tonemapping.

This takes big human resources as you have to set those predefined scene effects in all of the huge areas in the game by hand.

#2 Motion blur, ghosting light, and frame rate

Motion blur in this game is very basic: just supersample a current frame by the movement of the camera. This camera blur is not on characters. For characters, it generates polygons from the current frame toward the positions of bones in the previous frame and applies the image of the character in the current frame to those polygons as the textures.

The ghosting light effect that appears on the occasions such as the bright sky is coming in and out of your sight is a byproduct of the pseudo HDR in #1, specifically (6) in the flow.

Motion blur is one of the predefined effects in a Scene Box.

The frame rate is variable, and it varies from 15 to 60 fps, but is alleviated by motion blur.

#3 Stencil shadow volume with self shadow

This image is specifically created for this article with a darker shadow than in-game.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa34.htm
The stencil shadow volume is visualized in the second image. Shadow volume is created with VU1.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa25.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa26.htm
The player, the horse, and colossi have those shadows. (In ICO, Ico and Yorda had those realtime shadows by stencil shadow volume with self-shadow)

The palyer character has 3000 polygons, and a colossus has about 18,000. Shadow models have lower polycounts to fit in the PS2 processing power. Soft shadow is done by blurring in-scene shadow in a stencil buffer, so not physically correct, but enough for the PS2 resolution.

The shadow model for the face of the player character
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa27.htm
The shadow model for the player character
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa28.htm
Superimposing the shadow model wireframe on the player character model
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa29.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa30.htm
Self-shadow on a colossus
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa31.htm
Self-shadow off
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa32.htm
Self-shadow on
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa33.htm

#4 Fur shader

As PS2 has no real fur shader capability in SM1.x, it's done by layered shells of textured polygons (3 - 6 layers).
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa39.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa40.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa41.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa42.htm

Also per-pixel lighting and per-pixel anisotropic lighting is not possible on PS2, but it does per-vertex lighing in these fur layers.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa44.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa45.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa46.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa47.htm
5 layers
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa49.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa50.htm

#5 LOD for landscape, and loading

There are 3 phases in the landscape.

Far (they call it 'Super Low'): the farthest backgrounds are realtime rendered from a low-poly model into a 2D image and pasted on polygons as textures.
Middle: 600m x 600m square rendered by low fidelity landscape model
Near: 100m x 100m square rendered by high fidelity landscape model

Landmark objects in 'Super Low' areas are always on memory.

Colossi have no LOD and always use high-poly models.

The seamless background loading eliminates loading times. As this causes memory fragmentation, the resource management system checks the vertical retrace interval and does defragmentation in background when it's idle. Adresses in the program are also created on the assumption that they are remapped.

#6 Colossi as moving landscape, and deforming collision system

Colossi have low-poly collision models.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa61.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa57.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa60.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa63.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa59.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa64.htm

Those collision models deform when colossi change their poses.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa65.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa66.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa67.htm

When the player and a colossus collide the player is treated as a sphere. Likewise, when a colossus and a wall collides, the colossus is treated as a sphere, to save the processing power.

#7 Inverse kinematics on colossi

The realtime adaptive walking animation system with IK (Inverse Kinematics) is implemented in the colossi's animation.

Colossus AI is represented as reactions to the player entering particular zones. Those reactions are not created by programmers but by designers with a collosi scripting software.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa73.htm

When a colossus walks, it calculates the direction and distance of movement from the AI. The basic walking animation is designed by hand, and footsteps are adjusted to the actual landscape by IK. The player character and the horse also get scene feedback by IK.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa68.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa69.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa70.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa71.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa72.htm

#8 Physics motion and Add Motion

When the player sticks to a colossus, he is shaken by physics simulation of 2 pendulums for the player's hand-to-bust and waist-to-foot (multiple pendulum simulation). Besides spring pendulum simulation is applied to elastic hands.

However, only with those simulations it became inorganic, so they added human motion designed by hand to the result of this simulation. They call it "Add Motion" system.

But even with those 2 factors some glitchs occured. Then they added IK to them and finally created the natural motion made of 3 synthesized factors which can create actions that both programmers and designers have never seen before. This system is used not only against the player but in the motion of the horse on which the player is riding on.

"Add Motion" in action
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa76.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa77.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa93.htm
Pendulum and deforming collision model
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa67.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa94.htm
Pendulum and Add Motion
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa78.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa79.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa80.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa81.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa82.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa83.htm

IK for the horse:
Basic pose
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa87.htm
Simple 2-bone IK, not natural
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa86.htm
The release version
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa85.htm

#9 Pseudo volume particle and pseudo light diffusion

Normal particle with a plain texture
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa95.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa96.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa99.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa101.gif
Pseudo volume particle by per-vertex lighting
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa97.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa98.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa100.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa102.gif

They also created a pseudo light diffusion shader (they call it "Fairy Shader") by simple anisotropic lighting.
It's tuned by designers' hand.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa91.htm
Without Fairy Shader
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa88.htm
Fairy Shader 30%
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa89.htm
Fairy Shader 100%
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...207/3dwa90.htm

The created what they call "Velvet Shader" for the skin of the horse.
Normal specular map
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa111.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa112.gif
Velvet Shader
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa113.gif
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...07/3dwa114.gif

#10 Final words

According to Fumito Ueda, they started the development of SoTC 3 years ago. They reached the fantastic visual style of SoTC via try and err, just like in ICO. The expressions used in SoTC, such as fur, motion blur, Add Motion, Fairy Shader and Velvet Shader were first examined on LightWave by Ueda as the technology inventor, then were suggested to each different division in the team. For both ICO and SoTC, the visual styles were not only created with advanced technologies of visual programmers but also with visual plans by designers and other aspects such as the good artwork and craftsmanship.

Nishikawa asks why they didn't move the project from PS2 to PS3. They answer that it'd take 3 years or more and it's good that it's on PS2 as the image of "a bit beyond PS2" is one of the advantages of SoTC.

For the next project for PS3

Originally Posted by Fumito Ueda Mainstream games released so far are about the same scale point-vs-point collision like sword-vs-sword. But for the next-generation, collision against a large surface like SoTC will be a common theme. Though I can comment nothing concrete on the next project, it's possible in some form we may use the theme of the large-scale "hold-onto action" we actualized in SoTC. In some way, it will be meaningful to realize these things that can be a theme for a next-generation game in the current generation in advance... it's one of the reasons why we completed this work on PS2.

*again thanks to 'one' for translating*

[Joseph Merrick]

Do you want to know how SOTC was created?

Nope. Thanks for asking though.

[Zilch]

None of your links work.

Nope. Thanks for asking though

Then why even open the thread, douchebag?

[Doogdogg]

All links are brokened. You suck at the Internet.

[teiresias]

May as well just link to the original B3D thread.

[BarneyBP]

Give the guy a break, when he fixes the links this has the potential to be a very good post.

[BlueTsunami]

Give the guy a break, when he fixes the links this has the potential to be a very good post.

I agree, its one of the most detailed and informative posts i've seen in a while

Thanks mckmass!

[Sho Nuff]

HOLY SHIT, yes, this game is one of those "Hmm, I don't even know how I'd go about doing this" titles that baffles me on a technical level. Hope the links are fixed.

Nope. Thanks for asking though.

DUR HUR YUOR FUNNEY

[mckmas8808]

I agree, its one of the most detailed and informative posts i've seen in a while Thanks mckmass!

Damn I can't stop looking at the bouncies!! O_O

This should be the link at the orignal write up. It's very detailed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=18

[Grug]

I thought they used magic pixie dust.

[Zilch]

Damn I can't stop looking at the bouncies!! O_O This should be the link at the orignal write up. It's very detailed. http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=18

No, try and click one of the links in your first post. It won't work.

[Amir0x]

I fixed it for mckmas.

[jenov4]

Thanks for the original link, it was some interesting reading.

[TTP]

Ah-ah! Now "I see what they did there"! Time to go and do a sequel to SOTC myself.

Joke aside, awesome post.

[TheJollyCorner]

awesome thread! Thanks a bunch! :)

[maskrider]

Actually, it's been posted before, without translations, though.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1858
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=74884

[mckmas8808]

I fixed it for mckmas.

Thanks Amir0x.

[mckmas8808]

Actually, it's been posted before, without translations, though. http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1858 http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=74884

Well yeah I wanted to post the one with translations because not many here can read Japanese.

[Powdered Toastman]

10fps 4tl

[Black_Mamba]

Great read. Thanks mckmas8808 and One!

It's a shame they didn't include a making-of feature on that NICO DVD. Why game developers can't follow the movie industry and add this kind of feature to their game DVDs!?!?

[echoshifting]

It's a shame they didn't include a making-of feature on that NICO DVD. Why game developers can't follow the movie industry and add this kind of feature to their game DVDs!?!?

QFT. I always love finding whatever scraps of "making of" gets hidden on certain games. I really enjoyed God of War...but when I unlocked some behind-the-scenes materials, it was true love.

Thanks for an awesome thread, this is fascinating. :)

[SolidSnakex]

Great read. Thanks mckmas8808 and One! It's a shame they didn't include a making-of feature on that NICO DVD. Why game developers can't follow the movie industry and add this kind of feature to their game DVDs!?!?

Well we also don't get the dual language support that generally comes with DVD's either. Kojima atleast has said its due to the dialogue in his games causing the DVD's to exceed their size, so hopefully it'll change next gen with Blu Rays. The inclusion of making ofs could go in there too.

[Matlock]

Well we also don't get the dual language support that generally comes with DVD's either. Kojima atleast has said its due to the dialogue in his games causing the DVD's to exceed their size, so hopefully it'll change next gen with Blu Rays. The inclusion of making ofs could go in there too.

I'm calling bullshit. Some of the games that "stretched the limit" like the GTA's were 2-2.5 GB. :p

[Tain]

That was pretty damn cool.

And Lightwave, eh? No shit.

[Gattsu25]

I see it like this...games are being raped by trademarks...every method for doing an effect has a patent...why reveal that stuff to the public if you want to horde it for yourself

thatt's why stuff like this is so fun...I especially liked how they accomplished their bloom (ugh...hate that term) and the Vagrant Story style highlights

[Zilch]

Ha, why do you hate the term 'bloom lighting'? That's like exactly what it is. :p

And yes, a very interesting read. The shaders they created are pretty neat.

[TekunoRobby]

Holy shit, these guys faked so many techniques we take for granted on more powerful hardware and made it seem almost authentic. That takes some skill, I'm impressed. I also like how they tackled all the mundane issues like collision detection and IK/motion blend. A lot of cool little tricks in SoTC that should definitely warrant an in-depth explanation. Hopefully for this years GDC!

The low and jumpy framerate issue is a terrible thorn though. A variable fps of 15 - 60 is completely unacceptable IMO but they pulled it off decently. I like how they used motion blur to mask it though, doesn’t work well but it does something.

[Sagitario]

Wow! Really interesting read... They really DO know what they do and they're good at it...

[Blimblim]

I would love to see this type of feature from 1up or IGN/Gamespot.

[Ranger X]

Interesting read!! tks.

It's nice to see how far talented people can go in mimmicking effects that aren't even possible with the console.

[mrklaw]

Interesting read!! tks. It's nice to see how far talented people can go in mimmicking effects that aren't even possible with the console.

Yes. And while others are doing this stuff with next gen consoles 'properly', think what people with imaginations can push for. What kinds of effects will there be that PS3/X360 can't do, but they'll find a way to 'fake' it?

The mind boggles.

[Ranger X]

Yes. And while others are doing this stuff with next gen consoles 'properly', think what people with imaginations can push for. What kinds of effects will there be that PS3/X360 can't do, but they'll find a way to 'fake' it? The mind boggles.

But it's far away from now we'll see games that surpass the capabilities of next-gen consoles :(

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Wow, that was a great read.

That's impressive stuff reading them tackle effects and techniques reserved for something beyond PS2 tech. These guys are amazingly talented and creative. This approach is going to lend itself incredible next gen when sooner or later devs reach a point when the "hardware can't really do it."

[hellfire]

to me (and some of my other graphics programming friends) the motion blur looks like they dropped the mipmap level of all of the textures as you rotate. if they claim they supersample, i don't doubt it, but i think most of the blur effect comes from dropping the mip level and thus causing blurring of everything.

sotc's art is simply impeccable with the best fur i've seen in a game. i just wish it had been done on a next gen machine. the fact that they did all this work for just 2-3 characters at a time is insane, and could've been a big reason why the world is so barren.

[Squeak]

Interesting read!! tks. It's nice to see how far talented people can go in mimmicking effects that aren't even possible with the console.

It really isn't mimicking as such. A lot of the "hardware features" of the ATI and nVidia VPUs and GPUs are done in exactly the same way, only hidden beneath a slur of buzzwords and APIs. When you get down to the hardware level the techniques used are the same.

[RiZ III]

thanks for the article

[C- Warrior]

Man, after looking at that I feel bad for renting this game...



Juuuust kidding.

>.> ORRY!?!

I wonder if the efforts of the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus team ends up becoming free middleware for various exlcusive games being made for Sony PS3 (even if 3rd party).

[Parallax Scroll]

I'm generally a pretty big framerate whore, and SOTC's low framerate barely bothered me at all. The motion blur is definitely a factor in that, but I think it also has to do with the way the game is played. You don't really need to do much of anything that requires super-precise timing, and so framerate doesn't end up affecting playability much.

[JRPereira]

Neat. I love all the little tricks they used.

[Drinky Crow]

"here's some shitty textures"
"here's a 15fps frame rate"
"here's some wonky controls"
"here's a bunch of retarded 'games as art' fantards"
"mix"

VOILA, SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

[Lord Error]

That's a really great article, I love reading stuff like that.

to me (and some of my other graphics programming friends) the motion blur looks like they dropped the mipmap level of all of the textures as you rotate. if they claim they supersample, i don't doubt it, but i think most of the blur effect comes from dropping the mip level and thus causing blurring of everything

Oh, absolutely not. Pay attention to the blur that happens when the first Colossus smashes ground next to you or when he starts shaking his head when you are there and stab it. There's a definite 'temporality' to that blur, and it looks way more complex than what it would look like if they just did what you said. I think it looks more complex in fact than any motion blur done on games on this generation on hardware, it's more akin to stuff that we are beginning to see on next gen games like PGR3.

[HomerSimpson-Man]

"here's some shitty textures" "here's a 15fps frame rate" "here's some wonky controls" "here's a bunch of retarded 'games as art' fantards" "mix" VOILA, SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

Yeah, we know you didn't bother to read the tech Drinky.

[Drinky Crow]

what's the point of reading about tech when the end result is straight-up dog-ugliness gussied up with a few incidental lighting effects?

[Gattsu25]

Drinky: check your PMs...I didn't send you anything...but you might have a message

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Want to say it again?

[Drinky Crow]

Hey, if you want the recipe for shit brownies, I'm sure Ueda and crew can provide that, too.

[demi]

Hey, if you want the recipe for shit brownies, I'm sure Ueda and crew can provide that, too.

YGPM Ueda

[Flachmatuch]

"here's some shitty textures" "here's a 15fps frame rate" "here's some wonky controls" "here's a bunch of retarded 'games as art' fantards" "mix" VOILA, SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

Is it allowed to agree with this post? Also, eurogamer loves this game...always a bad sign.

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Is it allowed to agree with this post? Also, eurogamer loves this game...always a bad sign.

Er...a lot of publications loved this game. Always a good sign.

[Flachmatuch]

Er...a lot of publications loved this game. Always a good sign.

Eurogamer love negates mass opinion but you're right of course It's the games-as-art part that annoys me, as real refinement in gaming is often overlooked in favour of highschool level storytelling tricks/setups or the pathetic dark brooding angsty mood