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Havel
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:18 AM)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykbT03r_9Zo

EDIT:

Originally Posted by jschreier

In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.

EDIT: Confirmation that the lighting was running real-time on a retail PS3:

Originally Posted by dark10x

Oh yes. A standard retail PS3. Not even a devkit.

I watched one of the stations crash even and they simply reset the PS3 and the disc showed up on the XMB menu and everything. You could also use the PS button.


Originally Posted by Havel

This thread feels like a warzone at times. It's fine if you don't think this is worth it, but all we are looking for is an honest, truthful answer about why we were promised something until release day, and some clarification on the PC version.

From all the bullshit publishers (devs?) have been pulling recently (Aliens: Colonial Marines , Watch Dogs), I just figured it would be nice to get a proper answer, with no bullshit. But a proper answer is not "Things change in development", as those things were advertised and used as selling points until release day.

People think there is malicious intent here. There is not. Want that, take to the other thread.


Glad we have your attention, J.K :p

Originally Posted by Havel

Some of you people are missing the point ENTIRELY.

Game get's announced (April 2013) > Advertise new lighting engine and how this majorly affects gameplay > Continue to use this as a selling point until release day > Game doesn't have it on release day.

There are people defending this in the thread.



Following on from this thread, I have started a Twitter campaign aimed at Namco/From Software.


Namco Bandai America:
https://twitter.com/namcogames

Namco Bandai UK:
https://twitter.com/NamcoBandaiUK

Namco Bandai community manager:
https://twitter.com/JKartje


The goal of this is to get answers from Namco/From Software about the sudden and inexplicable downgrade of Dark Souls 2's graphics at the last second without so much of a whisper to its consumers, after showing off their new lighting engine and touting gameplay features which no longer exist all the way up to a month before release., and if the PC version will be affected by these changes.

zephervack made a good post in the other thread about the different builds:



Originally Posted by zephervack

Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds




Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 and end of January footage (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS


Has anyone thought that maybe they couldnt get the lightning to work on the Xbox 360 version, so they decided to remove it from both?

The issue here is that we were deceived all the way up until launch, with no indication that the graphics had been butchered beyond recognition until the game was already in our hands. A lot of people, including myself, were incredibly impressed by the atmosphere from the lighting and the torch mechanic shown until the end of January, and for them to suddenly disappear a few weeks later in the final release after selling those mechanics to us since the reveal, with NOT A SINGLE INDICATION, is INCREDIBLY dishonest and borderline false advertising.

As I said before, the goal of this thread is to get answers from Namco and From Software about this, and if the PC version will be affected by these changes. This thread is NOT about comparing the pre-release and retail versions of the game, if you want that then take it to the other thread. I want this to be a joint effort of trying to contact them for questioning.

To help, sign in/up to Twitter and tweet the following accounts above with the hash tag #DarkSoulsDowngrade with a link to this thread or a message to Namco.

Thank you.
Last edited by Havel; 03-17-2014 at 04:13 PM.
Ghazi
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:19 AM)
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I really, really hope that we can illicit at least a response from Namco or From on this. I understand toning the game down for performance reasons, but waiting for people who paid $60 to find out after they've bought it super shady.
moneal2001
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:20 AM)
but they are not EA or Ubi. they are the only two evil corps that would pull this type of thing. [/sarcasm]
Havel
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:21 AM)
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If anybody knows a higher up/PR guy at Namco on Twitter, I will add it to the OP.
Zeppeli
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:21 AM)
Do we have confirmation those builds were even running on devkits? Or was it a Ground Zeroes situation where they were running on "PCs specced to match consoles"?

Originally Posted by Havel

If anybody knows a higher up/PR guy at Namco on Twitter, I will add it to the OP.

https://twitter.com/JKartje

He's the community manager.
Mike M
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:23 AM)
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Not sure a hashtag like #YOULIED is going to yield anything constructive...
puffyshirt
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:23 AM)
I don't think the game even looks that bad.
Mr.Marston
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:23 AM)
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"#YOULIED"

:lol that's pretty good
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
(03-14-2014, 03:23 AM)
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Namco did say they were treating Dark Souls 2 as a AAA title, fake footage should be expected.
Jtwo
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:23 AM)
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LOL: whatever dude.
Purple_Tentacle
Junior Member
(03-14-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Even if they respond, what does that response achieve?
Zeppeli
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:24 AM)

Originally Posted by Mike M

Not sure a hashtag like #YOULIED is going to yield anything constructive...

It's a Souls pun.

Originally Posted by puffyshirt

What's the goal? I don't think the game even looks that bad.

Doesn't the game run at 494p internal resolution and averages around ~23fps? I would think that coupled with the graphical downgrade results in the need for explanation.
TheJollyCorner
(03-14-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Come on...
I can't imagine many hardcore Demons/Dark Souls fans deciding to pass on DkS2 because of a visual downgrade. Even if Namco was more open about it, the thirst for this game was still strong for a shitload of people.

The game is still fantastic & although not as technically impressive as the reveal, I think it still looks good. *shrug*
Havel
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(03-14-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sorairo

Do we have confirmation those builds were even running on devkits? Or was it a Ground Zeroes situation where they were running on "PCs specced to match consoles"?



https://twitter.com/JKartje

He's the community manager.

Thanks.
Wolves Evolve
Just visiting Planet Fuck
(03-14-2014, 03:25 AM)
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I think they removed lighting and some geometry to raise the framerate, which is what we all complained about last time. I have no problem with how the game looks, in fact I'm rather impressed.

As someone who usually takes part in these campaigns, I have to say you don't have me. I see a difference, but it is not "butchered beyond recognition" and I prefer the raised framerate.
BHK3
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(03-14-2014, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

Not sure a hashtag like #YOULIED is going to yield anything constructive...

Are you saying they didn't?
moneal2001
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:26 AM)

Originally Posted by Purple_Tentacle

Even if they respond, what does that response achieve?

the same thing that the outrage over watch dogs was trying to achieve. get the companies to see that we are paying attention and get this stuff to stop. or at least that's what i got from the watch dogs downgrade thread.
Hydranockz
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(03-14-2014, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Purple_Tentacle

Even if they respond, what does that response achieve?

The DS equivalent of recovering your souls before you subsequently die again.
Havel
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(03-14-2014, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheJollyCorner

Come on...
I can't imagine many hardcore Demons/Dark Souls fans deciding to pass on DkS2 because of a visual downgrade. Even if Namco was more open about it, the thirst for this game was still strong for a shitload of people.

The game is still fantastic & although not as technically impressive as the reveal, I think it still looks good. *shrug*

This isn't about passing on the game, it's about being lied to about features until release.
Intheflorsh
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(03-14-2014, 03:26 AM)
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#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion
Junior Mint
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(03-14-2014, 03:27 AM)
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The Dark Souls 1 PC port was much more offensive than what I see with Dark Souls 2 tbh.
FairXchange
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(03-14-2014, 03:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Intheflorsh

#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion

This.
nynt9
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(03-14-2014, 03:27 AM)
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There's already a thread for this, why do we have another one spreading the same hyperbole?

#YOULIED, really?
Kinsei
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(03-14-2014, 03:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheJollyCorner

Come on...
I can't imagine many hardcore Demons/Dark Souls fans deciding to pass on DkS2 because of a visual downgrade. Even if Namco was more open about it, the thirst for this game was still strong for a shitload of people.

The game is still fantastic & although not as technically impressive as the reveal, I think it still looks good. *shrug*

I decided to pass on it. Not because of the downgrade, but because they didn't tell anyone about it. I'm sure the game is still fantastic but I don't want to support that type of business practice.
Dhuie
Junior Member
(03-14-2014, 03:27 AM)
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Finding it hard to get into this thread while enjoying the game on PS3.
Valnen
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:28 AM)
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Just give me something on par with the TGS build with my PC version and I'll be happy. The reveal version isn't coming back though.
Surface of Me
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(03-14-2014, 03:28 AM)
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#LIARLIARSOULSONFIRE
SomewhatGroovy
(03-14-2014, 03:29 AM)
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Were there ever any "this is not a final build and not indicative of final product" disclaimers in previous demos? If so, then they owe us nothing.
Zeppeli
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:29 AM)

Originally Posted by Intheflorsh

#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion

Originally Posted by FairXchange

This.

I'm primarily a PC gamer and never plan to get Dark Souls 2 for consoles, but if you're going to advertise your product falsely, then you deserve to get some shit for it. I understand the hardware is old but it's not like Dark Souls 2 is some gigantic AAA title that sells tens of millions - it's a niche franchise and you don't want to piss off the following they have. Even an honest explanation would be a nice compromise.
Sorcerer Supreme
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(03-14-2014, 03:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Intheflorsh

#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion

Show me some recent PC footage then.
Havel
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(03-14-2014, 03:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

Not sure a hashtag like #YOULIED is going to yield anything constructive...

Don't like it, then use #DarkSoulsDowngrade. Namco won't care, we're all Souls fans here and all we want is answers.
Snuggles
erotic butter maelstrom
(03-14-2014, 03:29 AM)
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I appreciate where you're coming from, but YOULIED is the kind of white hot rage that will only lead to you either being ignored, or the butt of jokes. It's good to make your voices heard but it's important to do so in a rational and mature way. Either way I'm not sure what can be accomplished in this case since they probaby can't just flip a switch and restore the old graphics. A half-assed apology would not be worth much.

Edit - I see you've addressed this already. Well, good luck...
Last edited by Snuggles; 03-14-2014 at 03:32 AM.
Haines
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(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by nynt9

There's already a thread for this, why do we have another one spreading the same hyperbole?

#YOULIED, really?

That's what I'm wondering

I will say if Nintendo ever pulled this with Mario or smash people would go insane
PixyJunket
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(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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#OccupyNamco.
TheCongressman1
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(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by SomewhatGroovy

Were there ever any "this is not a final build and not indicative of final product" disclaimers in previous demos? If so, then they owe us nothing.

So companies can show whatever they please, right up until release, and then just switch the product. You're right, that seems fair.

Originally Posted by Sorairo

https://twitter.com/JKartje

He's the community manager.

Thanks, I just messaged him.
Ken
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(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Havel

Don't like it, then use #DarkSoulsDowngrade. Namco won't care, we're all Souls fans here and all we want is answers.

try jumping
ScriptedReality
Member
(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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*sigh* idk how to feel about all this fakery. its kinda annoying
Uncle Rupee
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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Wait for the inevitable remastered version on PS4 / Xbone / PC during the drought between now and DS3
skynidas
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(03-14-2014, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dhuie

Finding it hard to get into this thread while enjoying the game on PS3.

this, it was obvious that last gen consoles weren't going to look like the first reveal. the game looks great anyways (on ps3 here) and everything else is superb. if you want the amazing graphics you should have waited for the PC release like everyone else that wants the version that runs better
nakedeyes
Junior Member
(03-14-2014, 03:31 AM)
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Man.. people need to quit bitching.. Oh, a game's look changed over the course of a year of development? Super Surprising! :P

The game looks great for these old consoles, even it if doesn't meet whatever vision you have in your head. Yeah, I liked the dramatic lighting as well, and I hope it is done a bit better on the PC version, but what do people think? From purposefully tried to make it look worse? No! Either they had a good reason to change it up a bit, or they think it just looks better like this ( its subjective after all ).

Just like the time I got super burned by pre-ordering the collector's edition of RE: Operation Racoon City. It's your own damn fault for preordering ANY game, if you are finicky enough to where lighting changes make you cry #YOULIED from the rooftops.. It is not even close to false advertising. Take ALL alpha gameplay footage for all games with a grain of salt. This is games development!
CountAntonius
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(03-14-2014, 03:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

Not sure a hashtag like #YOULIED is going to yield anything constructive...

Yep. scrap it or it will be hard for anyone to take it serious.
Zomba13
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(03-14-2014, 03:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Intheflorsh

#youshouldhavewaitedforthePCversion

#ThePCVersionWillBeTheSame
Hydranockz
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(03-14-2014, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Havel

Don't like it, then use #DarkSoulsDowngrade. Namco won't care, we're all Souls fans here and all we want is answers.

If Namco won't care, why not just stick to the decent tag so people looking in on the situation don't think DS fans are petulent children?
epmode
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(03-14-2014, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by SomewhatGroovy

Were there ever any "this is not a final build and not indicative of final product" disclaimers in previous demos? If so, then they owe us nothing.

Misleading footage was released about one month before launch. Footage of the actual final game was never released by From/Bandai.

There's even a faked screenshot on the game box.

I agree that the #youlied tag is a little ridiculous though. Even if they set out to mislead us (and they did, towards the end), a tag like that isn't going to help.
Last edited by epmode; 03-14-2014 at 03:54 AM.
SomewhatGroovy
(03-14-2014, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheCongressman1

So companies can show whatever they please, right up until release, and then just switch the product. You're right, that seems fair.

Switch the product? Did you pop in the disk and find yourself booting up a racing game?

Edit

Originally Posted by epmode

Misleading footage was released about one month before launch. Footage of the actual final game was never released by From/Bandai.

There's even a faked screenshot on the game box.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. Now I am curious. (Sorry, congressman)
Havel
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(03-14-2014, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by nynt9

There's already a thread for this, why do we have another one spreading the same hyperbole?

#YOULIED, really?

How in anyway is this hyperbole?

It's about getting answers about why we were shown, and told, something major different until release.
DidntKnowJack
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(03-14-2014, 03:33 AM)
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I think the cries of "deception!" are a little incongruous because let's face it - you weren't tricked into buying any version of this game, you were going to buy it regardless.
MoonsaultSlayer
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(03-14-2014, 03:33 AM)
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We couldn't elect anyone other than Havel? Bamco will just spam their "dodge" tactics no matter how hard he hits with that #YOULIED. =P
moneal2001
Banned
(03-14-2014, 03:34 AM)
funny how different this thread is from the watch dogs thread.
Hydranockz
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(03-14-2014, 03:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheCongressman1

So companies can show whatever they please, right up until release, and then just switch the product. You're right, that seems fair.

What's the point of the disclaimer so in all honesty???

Just because the lighting looked reat doesn't mean the build itself was stable enough for release. Perhaps they had to rollback to the last safest build? Hmmm?

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