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toythatkills
(03-15-2014, 10:17 AM)
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From this thread on rllmuk.

Okay, a tiny inaccuracy in the thread title but you're here, aren't you? Basically what's happening is that people are using their PS4 pads to play Dark Souls II on PS3, but the pad is controlling the PS4 at the same time without their knowledge and so people are ending up buying all sorts of crap from the PSN store. Sony are refusing refunds.

The important posts:

Ok, most of you will find this funny (I know I would), I'm fuming.

Playing Dark Souls 2 on the PS3 with my PS4 controller, I leave my PS4 on as it's downloading updates.

Turns out the controller can control both at the same time.

So my inputs on Dark Souls buy me FIFA on PS4 (a game I already own) and British Cop skin pack (I don't even know what this is). Get an email on my tablet telling me so.

Ring psn and straight away the guy is just saying "terms of use", "no refunds" etc. £56.68.

Ask to speak to his superior and they won't come on the phone. He then tells me support staff have said it's not possible to control two devices at once. He doesn't seem to believe me.

Half of me wants to trade this in for an Xbox with Titanfall right now.

Yeah, hi. *Raises hand* Me too. Kind of. I had two Dark Souls sessions - at midnight, when the PS4 pad seemed to work fine, and at lunchtime, when I couldn't get it to work. Can't remember why, but it must have been disconnected when I turned the PS3 on, as fixing it took switching everything off, plugging it in (changing USB port at the time), and restarting. Then it worked. When I saw the standby light on the PS4 later on, I figured I'd just turned it on. I was mortified when I saw Battlefield there, and then I noticed that I'd watched a film as well.

I guess it must have been in that time that the PS4 pad wasn't properly connected to the PS3 that it happened. Notwithstanding the distance selling point, I appreciate that I might not have a leg to stand on, but I'll be looking to ask anyway - I can't easily weather a £68 loss. Hell, I have zero interest in Battlefield 4 (hey, if only there was some way of selling on digital content...), if it had been Assassin's Creed 4, or Need for Speed at the same price, or Strider/Trine 2 for £15 or so, I probably could have taken it on the chin. So, yeah, fuming is a word I can get on board with. Guess I'll email Sony, but I'll be leaving my dignity at the door.

Really taken the shine off what was an otherwise great day. My birthday, as it happens. And do keep laughing - I've laughed at it now and then, it doesn't really pay to get too snarled up over it.

It's hilarious really, but at the same time a pretty horrible system flaw, and it's absurd that Sony aren't refunding this, especially when their system seems to allow for licenses to be revoked so the purchase could just be reversed and access to the game removed.

Buy me some shit on PSN I don't want if old.
CCS
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(03-15-2014, 10:20 AM)
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While I can understand how annoying this must be for people, I don't really see why Sony have to sort out their fuck-ups for them.
Nemesis_
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(03-15-2014, 10:21 AM)
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Have Sony ever stated that they officially support the DualShock 4 on the PS3? I don't know why you'd expect them to refund this stuff if that weren't the case.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(03-15-2014, 10:22 AM)
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Oh man, this is gold. It's unfortunate for those affected that Sony isn't offering refunds but I can't exactly blame it for not granting them on the basis of a consumer's silly and arguably stupid oversight.
Joni
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(03-15-2014, 10:22 AM)
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I'm siding with Sony here. This was no error on their side, no technical problem that caused this, no false advertising. It was someone controlling their PlayStation 4 with their PlayStation 4 controller.
Kaezul
Junior Member
(03-15-2014, 10:23 AM)
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I don't see why Sony should refund them. And why would someone want to use the DS4 on the PS3?
Vizzeh
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(03-15-2014, 10:23 AM)
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I completely sympathize, but Sony have no guarantee that people would not abuse a good-will refund gesture. Especially for downloading something digitally, saying you promise to delete the content after a refund probably will not cut it.
FusionCode
Member
(03-15-2014, 10:23 AM)
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Haha oh damn this is hilarious. I gotta remember to keep my PS4 off whenever I play DS2.
CryptiK
Banned
(03-15-2014, 10:23 AM)
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I wouldn't expect a refund. What the fuck people.
stfuppercut
Member
(03-15-2014, 10:24 AM)
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They can do digital refunds. I got one on Ys Celceta for the game being too disgusting for my eyes and running like shit. Just tell them you want to speak to their manager.

Originally Posted by Kaezul

I don't see why Sony should refund them. And why would someone want to use the DS4 on the PS3?

Because it's a better controller than a DS3 in every single aspect? What a stupid post
toythatkills
(03-15-2014, 10:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

Oh man, this is gold. It's unfortunate for those affected that Sony isn't offering refunds but I can't exactly blame it for not granting refunds on the basis of a consumer's silly and arguably stupid oversight.

I dunno man, I don't think it's that stupid to assume that when you were connected to a PS3, your controller would not control a PS4 at the same time. I mean, it's easy to see in hindsight but I don't think many people would consider this possibility before it happened.

Why isn't connecting wired to the PS3 turning the wireless transmission off?

Originally Posted by Kaezul

I don't see why Sony should refund them. And why would someone want to use the DS4 on the PS3?

Because the DS3 is shit and the DS4 isn't.
Last edited by toythatkills; 03-15-2014 at 10:27 AM.
Olaf
Banned
(03-15-2014, 10:25 AM)
Or people could just use their Dualshock 3?
Joni
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(03-15-2014, 10:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

I dunno man, I don't think it's that stupid to assume that when you were connected to a PS3, your controller would control a PS4 at the same time.

You're just sending out a wireless signal that could be picked upo by anything in the neighbourhood. A DualShock 3 can turn on two different PS3 consoles too.
Nemesis_
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(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by stfuppercut

Because it's a better controller than a DS3 in every single aspect? What a stupid post

It's just as stupid as asking for a refund for an item that you bought by using an non-supported control device.
elektrixx
Banned
(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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It would be in Sony's best interests to make these customers happy.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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Set the ps4 to ask for a password at checkout, if you don't want toddlers or doppelgängers a to buy stuff without you knowing.
Zalman
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(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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You can't expect Sony to refund this.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

I dunno man, I don't think it's that stupid to assume that when you were connected to a PS3, your controller would control a PS4 at the same time. I mean, it's easy to see in hindsight but I don't think many people would consider this possibility before it happened.

Why isn't connecting wired to the PS3 turning the wireless transmission off?

Oh, I agree that the oversight is an easy one to make, but I can also understand why some would view it as a stupid one.
spectyre
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(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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The fact that the PS4 will still download when it is standby mode makes this even funnier.
Nibel
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(03-15-2014, 10:26 AM)
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How dumb do you have to be to not realize that both consoles are on

I mean come on, it's your own fault
CCS
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(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

I dunno man, I don't think it's that stupid to assume that when you were connected to a PS3, your controller would control a PS4 at the same time. I mean, it's easy to see in hindsight but I don't think many people would consider this possibility before it happened.

Why isn't connecting wired to the PS3 turning the wireless transmission off?

Probably because Sony have never officially announced DS4 support for PS3, so if you use one with a PS3 you do it knowing full well that something strange might happen.
Canis lupus
Junior Member
(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Joni

I'm siding with Sony here. This was no error on their side, no technical problem that caused this, no false advertising. It was someone controlling their PlayStation 4 with their PlayStation 4 controller.

This.
CircleOfFire
Junior Member
(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)
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Yeah, this thread title is ridiculously wrong. I just don't see how this is Sony's issue, seems to be people over-reaching on the "customer is always right" mantra.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)

Originally Posted by Nemesis_

Have Sony ever stated that they officially support the DualShock 4 on the PS3? I don't know why you'd expect them to refund this stuff if that weren't the case.

This was my first question. If the answer is no, Sony is quite right to do nothing.
USDF
Banned
(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)
Haha this a total non issue, stupid people are stupid, Sony have no responsibility to do anything and the guy banging on about selling his PS4 to get an Xbone and TF let me know all I needed to know
Amjad
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(03-15-2014, 10:27 AM)
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I don't see why Sony should refund this.
Zeyphersan
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(03-15-2014, 10:28 AM)
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Sony isn't required to give refunds since it wasn't an error on their end, but it'd be a great gesture to give people...
Man Puncher
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(03-15-2014, 10:28 AM)
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Dynedom
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(03-15-2014, 10:28 AM)
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No sympathy for victims here. Hilariously unfortunate though.

If Sony did offer refunds, it would be a good gesture.
DemonNite
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(03-15-2014, 10:28 AM)
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It's going to be hard to know if a refund is for a genuine error or not so I can see why they will refuse
Ocaso
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(03-15-2014, 10:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nemesis_

Have Sony ever stated that they officially support the DualShock 4 on the PS3? I don't know why you'd expect them to refund this stuff if that weren't the case.

Exactly what I was going to post. I get the frustration and disappointment on the part of those affected, but they were using their PS4 pad in an unsupported fashion, so them's the breaks.
Socreges
smarter than the average commie
(03-15-2014, 10:29 AM)
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If Sony has explicitly noted and advocated PS3 support, then I'd argue the fault lays with them and they need to fix this immediately.

If Sony has not intended for the DS4 to be used on the PS3, though, which is what it sounds like, then it's obviously the consumer's fault for taking that risk.
Backfoggen
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(03-15-2014, 10:29 AM)
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Lmao what is this.
senador
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(03-15-2014, 10:29 AM)
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This is a terrible fucking thread title.
Xater
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(03-15-2014, 10:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nemesis_

Have Sony ever stated that they officially support the DualShock 4 on the PS3? I don't know why you'd expect them to refund this stuff if that weren't the case.

Exactly, I don't know why they should refund this.

If you want to use the pad on your PS3 just unplug your PS4. Problem solved.
FeiRR
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(03-15-2014, 10:30 AM)
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I bought many things on the internet while drunk. Now I'll chase the brewery for refunds.
TheLegendOfMart
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(03-15-2014, 10:30 AM)
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They do refunds, I purchased Tiger Woods PSP game without checking if it was compatible with Vita back at launch, it wasn't, I phoned up and explained the situation and was told the policy was no refunds, I asked politely to speak to supervisor and was told to just email in explaining the situation and ask that it get passed on to a supervisor.

I completely forgot about it and two weeks later I got the following email:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your recent contact with PlayStation Support.

Just to let you know that we've refunded £15.99 to your Sony Online Network wallet as discussed, and that amount is now available for use.

If you have any other queries please call PlayStation Support on 0844 736 0595, quoting reference 120229-003448, where one of our team will be happy to help you.

Thank you,


Gary
PlayStation Team
Sony Computer Entertainment UK
PlayStation Support: 0844 736 0595

I'm not accusing the people of anything but if you act like an arse after they flat out refuse to refund you they probably won't deal with you.
Exr
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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I don't see why Sony has to owe these people anything.
hesido
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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C'mon guys.. Random tapping should not end up buying shit on any system, by default. Those who are so smarter and much more knowledgeable should have the option to set things so random tapping can buy shit. It could be asked once when FIRST buying something.
Shining Sunshine
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Socreges

If Sony has explicitly noted and advocated PS3 support, then I'd argue the fault lays with them and they need to fix this immediately.

If Sony has not intended for the DS4 to be used on the PS3, though, which is what it sounds like, then it's obviously the consumer's fault for taking that risk.

No they didn't. Sixaxis isn't supported. Watched a lot of streams where people were idiots not knowing that recharging the flashlight in TLOU required the PS3 controller.

Originally Posted by hesido

C'mon guys.. Random tapping should not end up buying shit on any system, by default. Those who are so smarter and much more knowledgeable should have the option to set things so random tapping can buy shit. It could be asked once when FIRST buying something.

You want a retina scan before confirming purchase? Even if you move buttons around, there's still a chance to buy it.
Last edited by Shining Sunshine; 03-15-2014 at 10:33 AM.
BlackBuzzard
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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Hey atleast it wasnt their nephew.
Alx
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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It's definitely a funny situation, but I wonder how it is technically possible... the communication between the controller and a console is two-way, there should be some kind of identification on both ends when establishing the link, I suppose, unlike with IR remotes where you're just broadcasting commands for everything in the room to receive. How can the controller not "know" there are two consoles trying to talk to it, and more importantly how/why can it handle both ?
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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Thank you for yet another example why you should enable the request to enter the password on checkout.

There are no real downsides.

Originally Posted by hesido

C'mon guys.. Random tapping should not end up buying shit on any system, by default. Those who are so smarter and much more knowledgeable should have the option to set things so random tapping can buy shit. It could be asked once when FIRST buying something.

After the PS4 is started Up Left X and you're in the store. I think Sony considers this quick way of accessing the store a convenience.
pieatorium
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(03-15-2014, 10:31 AM)
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should be pretty easy for sony to see if theve actually accessed the stuff they bought right? I doubt this is an issue that affects too many people since youd need both a ps4, ps3, dark souls and know that you can use the ds4 on the ps3.

Dont see how giving these few affected guys a refund should be a big deal at all
mxgt
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(03-15-2014, 10:32 AM)
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Why would Sony refund them? it's not their fault
stryke
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(03-15-2014, 10:32 AM)
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Does this only happen with Dark Souls? Why is it only happening now?
daxy
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(03-15-2014, 10:32 AM)
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It surprises me that making purchases doesn't require a password confirmation. Isn't this the exact reason why Apple had to change the way purchases work on the App Store when kids were buying in-game garbage for hundreds of dollars?
I'm not saying the guys who bought stuff on PSN are wronged, but Sony's store is definitely flawed that it doesn't require any kind of higher authorization. I think that's the important part of the story here. Not too long ago there was that thread about being able to order and confirm purchases in the store within four or five button presses.
Last edited by daxy; 03-15-2014 at 10:37 AM.
Ogni-XR21
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(03-15-2014, 10:32 AM)
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I honestly don't know how someone would even expect Sony to refund them.
Sophia
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(03-15-2014, 10:33 AM)
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Wait. Are all these people leaving their PS4s on while they play the PS3? Surely they would have noticed the PS4 turning on? I'm confused... it's not like you can magically just enable the Dualshock 4 wirelessly. You actually have to hit the PS button.
Taker34
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(03-15-2014, 10:33 AM)
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People still don't understand that they have to disconnect the PS4 electrical cord before using it on PC or PS3? Obviously the controller is connected to your console, as soon as you turn it on.

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