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Were 8 and 16-bit games 60fps?

I didn't give a shit about it because it was more normal than not. I didn't pay attention because most games had it, so you didn't notice the other ones that weren't.

Nowadays, it's much more rare, and that's really unfortunate.

Also, lol, buzzword. Jesus.

It's only rare if you don't use a PC or Nintendo Console for gaming :)

Or don't play fighting games of course.
 

Orayn

Member
You can't "fake" framerate through emulation... especially on older systems where even a slight difference in timing can cause games to completely not work (which is one of the reasons why it took 15 years for SNES emulators to gain "full" compatibility). The best you could do is run the game at double speed, but I'd imagine that would be quite hard to play :)

Oddly enough, it is possible to "fake" framerate in modern 3D games. The developers of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed worked on a technology that functioned kind of like the interpolation used on TVs, but the quality was much higher because it got motion information from the game engine and made those interpolated frames internally. I don't think it ever wound up being used in any commercial games, but it was a very interesting concept.
 

Videospel

Member
Actually, PAL is only the color encoding.

NOT the frequency.


PAL can be 30/60Hz at the "NTSC" resolution. PAL-M, for example, is interlaced, 480 lines at 60Hz.

Granted, it's RARE, but it was actually used. In Brazil, for example.

Some Xbox games had a PAL-60 mode, at least Ninja Gaiden did. I didn't know exactly how it worked, but I'm happy it did.
 
at that time 60 fps were only feasible on a computer monitor.
Eg in 1994 if you had a 1 MB SVGA card, you could run Doom 2 at 60 fps

I remember the motion was very smooth when compared to console games. Same for Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and other MS-DOS games.

Consoles were limited by PAL and NTSC.

Sorry to break it to you, but every part of this is wrong. The refresh rate for VGA Mode X or 13h* (which is what 320x200, 256-colour DOS games like Doom and Jazz Jackrabbit used) was 70Hz, not 60Hz like NTSC. The Doom engine was capped at half that, meaning it maxed out at 35 FPS regardless of your monitor's capabilities. Koren already explained how console games could run at 60 FPS on ordinary TVs.

*Edit: I originally wrote "Mode X" alone here. Doom used a modified 13h with similarities to Mode X. Hey, at least I didn't call it Mode 7!
 
I've programmed for the NES a bit as a hobbyist.

While a lot of games ran at 60 FPS, that doesn't necessarily mean that all graphics were updated 60 times a second. It all depended on how you set up your game.

You might update the "camera" i.e. background position every time through the main loop, but only update sprite positions every other loop. You might process game physics faster than 60 times a second, but only commit those changes graphically 30 times a second. You might handle all the enemies on even frames and handle the player and projectiles on odd frames. It depended on how demanding your programming logic was on those old, slow processors.

Being 2D, you didn't need to render an entire scene at once, you could update the various parts of the picture independently of each other.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
at that time 60 fps were only feasible on a computer monitor.
Eg in 1994 if you had a 1 MB SVGA card, you could run Doom 2 at 60 fps

I remember the motion was very smooth when compared to console games. Same for Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and other MS-DOS games.

Consoles were limited by PAL and NTSC.
Where do theses ideas come from? As others have noted you're wrong on every point.

While a lot of games ran at 60 FPS, that doesn't necessarily mean that all graphics were updated 60 times a second. It all depended on how you set up your game.
Most games did not do this, however. It was very jarring when sprites were updated at a lower rate than the scrolling.
 

rjc571

Banned
If anyone wants a laugh, trying playing old 2D games in an emulator with frameskipping turned on to force them to run at 30 fps (set the frameskip value to '1'). Oh god is it nauseating. I don't know how people can put up with 30 fps for sidescrollers.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
You can't "fake" framerate through emulation... especially on older systems where even a slight difference in timing can cause games to completely not work (which is one of the reasons why it took 15 years for SNES emulators to gain "full" compatibility). The best you could do is run the game at double speed, but I'd imagine that would be quite hard to play :)

Many emulators have cheat functionality.

As a result, if you can find a cheat that slows the game speed down to .5 speed, then emulate at double speed, you can play a game at a consistent 120fps.

I've done this with Super Smash Bros in Dolphin, and in the past I've done it with Kingdom Hearts 1+2 to play them at 60.
 

Eusis

Member
If anyone wants a laugh, trying playing old 2D games in an emulator with frameskipping turned on to force them to run at 30 fps (set the frameskip value to '1'). Oh god is it nauseating. I don't know how people can put up with 30 fps for sidescrollers.
Presumably those games were designed around being 30 FPS so it works, versus a game designed around 60 FPS (or appearing that way) being throttled. It's actually probably why Metal Slug never really registered with me, while Rayman Origins on 3DS was completely unacceptable. Especially as Metal Slug was more a slow march forward while Rayman's a mad sprint.
 

nded

Member
The only kind of animation I remember being 60fps back then was maybe Mode 7 games? Most games had three frames per animation. Maybe Mortal Kombat was the most fluid non-Mode 7 game I can remember.

Maybe I'm missunderstanding how a sprite based game can be 60fps?

Overall screen refresh rate is different from the number of frames of animation an individual element might have. Usually this is noticeable in how smoothly a game scrolls or moves elements across the screen. In this video, the difference in smoothness between between 60fps and 30fps is visible and has nothing to do with how many frames of animation individual characters and elements have.
 

Koren

Member
can someone explain to me why PAL territories went with err PAL in the first place? Should have just copied the US for 60hz. Not just for games but for TV as well.
Actually, it goes quite far in the past.

It partly comes from the way electricity is produced. If generators runs at a higher RPM, the AC power is produced at an higher frequency. Because of powerplants choices, AC power is 60Hz in US, mostly 50Hz in Europe (the reasons are complex and partly politics).

That's apparently one of the reasons of the refresh rate for video. Not the only one, though (Japan is both 50/60Hz for AC power, but they followed US guidance for standards IIRC).

There's other reasons: 50Hz allow more resolution (the number of lines per second is the same in both, so you get 576 lines in 50Hz when you only have 480 in 60Hz). 50Hz also allow a better movie->TV transition (it's a small speed-up of the original 24Hz, where 60Hz require a 3:2 pulldown with gives worse results).


On TOP of that, there's color encodings for broadcasts/composite/S-Video signals. Europe mostly use PAL, which gives better colors (France used SECAM for broadcasts, often a bit better quality-wise, but since Russia chosed the same system, it wasn't used in others western countries). NTSC specification use a different color encoding, which usually gives worse results for mostly the same bandwidth.


That being said, again, a lot of those choices were strategic and politic. A way to differenciate your country from the others.
 

PsionBolt

Member
Most of the time they were, but when they weren't - now that was something special.
This thread reminds me of slowdown. I kinda miss slowdown.

Yeah, this. There is something really nice about the feeling of having 17 enemies and 426 bullets / effects on screen and watching things grind down to single digits. I have fond memories of lag spikes in places like the last cart in Armored Armadillo's stage in Mega Man X.
 
Why are people so obsessed with 60FPS as of lately?

It´s becoming harder to quantify what next gen is about. During the last generation we had HD graphics. Now we have what? The marketing is pushing 1080p and 60fps as the new buzzwords to quantify the quality of a game. There was no such nonsense during the 2D era. We had Pal and NTSC differences but thats it.

Edit: Before someone whants to misunderstand this: 60fps IS important and obviously not a busszword per se - the question was why the mainstream is suddenly incapabable to discuss a game without shouting "but but is it 1080/60?" every two sentences. 60fps are not a buzzword, but many people use it like one often without knowing what they talking about. (the feel of 60!) And thats a recent developement.
 

Koren

Member
Many emulators have cheat functionality.

As a result, if you can find a cheat that slows the game speed down to .5 speed, then emulate at double speed, you can play a game at a consistent 120fps.

I've done this with Super Smash Bros in Dolphin, and in the past I've done it with Kingdom Hearts 1+2 to play them at 60.
Won't work on 8/16 bits console.

On recent consoles, a motion is computed with "new_pos = old_pos + speed * dt". So you can change the speed by changing the dt.

On old game, it's rather "for each screen blanking, move the sprite 2 pixels on the left".

You would need to change ALL hardcoded displacements in the game code, and most of them probably won't be a multiple of two. So you actually have to rewrite the code, not change a couple of values with a cheat.

That's the reason why slow-motion devices were using a turbo-start trick instead of cheat codes (like game genie and co)
 

R_Deckard

Member
ahh the old days of Pal vs NTSC and even ye french Secam.

NTSC with all its 60hz Arcade and Full screenyness

Then Pal with your 50 and Bordered screen,,damn you, but easily better colour then the old Never The Same Colour twice of NTSC..:)

60hz love was form arcades mostly, many.many games on Snes/Megadrive/PC engine/Amiga etc etc were WAY less than 60
 

Eusis

Member
It´s becoming harder to quantify what next gen is about. During the last generation we had HD graphics. Now we have what? The marketing is pushing 1080p and 60fps as the new buzzwords to quantify the quality of a game. There was no such nonsense during the 2D era. We had Pal and NTSC differences but thats it.
What are you talking about. SEGA had blast processing.

Nevermind that 16-bit itself was touted as a big feature over the NES. At least 1080p and 60 FPS are immediately quantifiable and observable for consumers rather than seemingly abstract at best, complete nonsense at worst.
 
I remember the motion was very smooth when compared to console games. Same for Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and other MS-DOS games.

The funny thing about this was that Jazz Jackrabbit was one of the few MS-DOS games that felt like a console game, which meant a smooth 60fps refresh rate. John Carmack got his start with Commander Keen specifically because it was another rare dos game that ran like a console game(Though I don't think the original Keen ran at 60fps). PC games doing "Nintendo" quality graphics was a huge deal!

Console hardware was very specialized for drawing 2d graphics. They were designed to draw background panes with 2d sprites on top. The system then handled moving the sprites and scrolling the backgrounds. As long as you stuck to that, you would have consistent 60fps updates with your games. It took a special game to mess this up.

PC games were different in that for the most part, all those background panes and sprites had to be manually copied every frame. This was incredibly slow which is why you never saw smooth scrolling PC games back then.

Jazz Jackrabbit was a breakthrough because it used a specialized video mode(Mode-X) that allowed for hardware scrolling. Seriously, smooth scrolling on a PC game was a HUGE deal.
 
What are you talking about. SEGA had blast processing.

Nevermind that 16-bit itself was touted as a big feature over the NES. At least 1080p and 60 FPS are immediately quantifiable and observable for consumers rather than seemingly abstract at best, complete nonsense at worst.

Thx for supporting my statement. ^^ In the 90s we had blast processing. Now we have 8gigs ddr and 1080/60. People use it like buzzwords, thats the problem. Well, not really a problem, but its annoying.
 
You didn't notice the difference between 30/60 the analogue days, the 'feeling' people describe is purely because of input lag, the further away from the screens native refresh the more perceptible you will be to input delay, you're only talking milliseconds, but it does become noticeable.

CRT's do not have input lag, the response was immediate.
 

entremet

Member
Thx for supporting my statement. ^^ In the 90s we had blast processing. Now we have 8gigs ddr and 1080/60. People use it like buzzwords, thats the problem. Well, not really a problem, but its annoying.

There's a big difference from marketing tripe like blast processing and real metrics and benchmarks like 60FPS, though.
 

Koren

Member
Some Xbox games had a PAL-60 mode, at least Ninja Gaiden did. I didn't know exactly how it worked, but I'm happy it did.
I think that maybe 1/3 of my GC games allow the player to choose between PAL-50 and PAL-60. Great effort from developpers, including Nintendo.

After that, it was a matter of choosing between framerate and image quality. Sometimes, PAL-50 mode was speed-corrected, but not always (thus a slower game in PAL-50).

Strangely, with the disc that allows imports on GC, you could force PAL-60 on games that didn't officially supporting it, and even progressive mode (480p60, unavailable in Europe on GC).


On 8/16bits, the problem is a bit more complex, but you can sometimes enable PAL-60 with a hardware modification (and at least get PAL-60 for import games).
 
Many emulators have cheat functionality.

As a result, if you can find a cheat that slows the game speed down to .5 speed, then emulate at double speed, you can play a game at a consistent 120fps.

I've done this with Super Smash Bros in Dolphin, and in the past I've done it with Kingdom Hearts 1+2 to play them at 60.

Again, good luck doing so for the older systems where even minute timing changes can negatively effect compatibility. These tricks also have other negative repercussions (graphical glitches, broken cutscenes, desynced audio, all common issues I've seen) on the games that do work.
 

Costia

Member
You didn't notice the difference between 30/60 the analogue days, the 'feeling' people describe is purely because of input lag, the further away from the screens native refresh the more perceptible you will be to input delay, you're only talking milliseconds, but it does become noticeable.

CRT's do not have input lag, the response was immediate.

Input lag is due to the processing that the digital TVs/LCDs do, rather than refresh rate mismatches or such. That's why some screens have a game mode that should keep the processing to a minimum. Some LCDs are better at this than others.


Looks like the right answer to this thread is "sometimes".
And just like today fps wasn't the whole story. You could have a 60fps output that was using various tricks to reduce the required processing - resulting in something that isn't quite 60fps but looks close/good enough.

What do you mean with "Some have low/no standards"? Either people enjoy the game nor not, no?

If you enjoyed a game but you have low standards your enjoyment doesn't count.
j/k
 
There's a big difference from marketing tripe like blast processing and real metrics and benchmarks like 60FPS, though.

Of course there is. But the question was about the sudden increase in the usage of those words. 60fps had been around for 20 years, 1080p gaming for 10-15. So why now? Why a decade after HD televisions? Because they are used like buzzwords now. Thats the annoying part.
 

Eusis

Member
Thx for supporting my statement.
But you said we had no such nonsense, when we clearly did. I even remember pamphlets from stores running down the tech differences like which could output more colors at once or per sprite.

But then that actually IS a quantifiable difference much like 1080p and 60 FPS, whereas 8 GB GDDR5 may not be readily obvious. We're also in kind of a unique situation where the other system doesn't seem to really have a technological advantage and is more expensive.

EDIT: And the reason it's coming up now is that they're more reliably hitting it. 1080p was always desired once people were moving to 1080p TVs and actually wanted that full resolution used outside of blu-rays, and 60 FPS is something that people here commonly brought up at least for PC over consoles, and it sure as hell is a reason Bayonetta on 360 crushed the PS3 version, and something people got a little irritated by DmC lacking.
 

ToD_

Member
I think that maybe 1/3 of my GC games allow the player to choose between PAL-50 and PAL-60. Great effort from developpers, including Nintendo.

The Dreamcast had a good amount of games with 60hz support as well. In addition, it came with an RGB (Scart) cable. Not only was it nice to finally have our games run fullscreen and at the correct speed, it was also the best picture quality I had ever seen on any 15khz CRT screen at the time outside of arcades.

I also remember some advertisements in old gaming mags during the 16bit days, where some stores would offer mods to enable "fullscreen and faster gameplay". I never tried those at the time, but I'm assuming they would enable PAL-60 on your console.
 

Bigbillybeef

Neo Member
It's odd that people don't care about 60fps. It's not like this is something new.

People ALWAYS want the best possible performance and visuals from games. Why wouldn't they?

The simple fact is that TV's of even a basic standard these days do 1080p at 60Hz, so ideally your games should run at 1080p at 60Hz.

Is it the be all and end all? No.

Is it preferable to sub 60fps/30hz? YES! of course it is.

PC gamers have been battling away to get 60hz at their monitors native resolution for YEARS! And I mean like... since forever. People were buying 3dfx's Voodoo graphics cards from as early as 1996 to get 60fps in early 3d games.
 
But you said we had no such nonsense, when we clearly did. I even remember pamphlets from stores running down the tech differences like which could output more colors at once or per sprite.

But then that actually IS a quantifiable difference much like 1080p and 60 FPS, whereas 8 GB GDDR5 may not be readily obvious. We're also in kind of a unique situation where the other system doesn't seem to really have a technological advantage and is more expensive.

EDIT: And the reason it's coming up now is that they're more reliably hitting it. 1080p was always desired once people were moving to 1080p TVs and actually wanted that full resolution used outside of blu-rays, and 60 FPS is something that people here commonly brought up at least for PC over consoles, and it sure as hell is a reason Bayonetta on 360 crushed the PS3 version, and something people got a little irritated by DmC lacking.

Like i said, we were not discussing framerates in the 90s. We were arguing about blast processing. Now we argue about framerates, which is good, but it becomes annoying if some people use it like we used blast processing in the 90s. Thats the feeling i get in lot of discussions. That some people use those words without knowing the actual meaning behind them. Like in: "Whoa you spend 500 bucks on hardware xy2? What does it different than hardware xy1?" - 1080p and 60 bro!"
 

wazoo

Member
Actually, it goes quite far in the past.

It partly comes from the way electricity is produced. If generators runs at a higher RPM, the AC power is produced at an higher frequency. Because of powerplants choices, AC power is 60Hz in US, mostly 50Hz in Europe (the reasons are complex and partly politics).

That's apparently one of the reasons of the refresh rate for video. Not the only one, though (Japan is both 50/60Hz for AC power, but they followed US guidance for standards IIRC).

You kill me. I was ready to put the same explanation :(
 

Eusis

Member
Like i said, we were not discussing framerates in the 90s. We were arguing about blast processing. Now we argue about framerates, which is good, but it becomes annoying if some people use it like we used blast processing in the 90s. Thats the feeling i get in lot of discussions. That some people use those words without knowing the actual meaning behind them.
Honestly the colors angle is probably more like the resolution/FPS angle, MAYBE the fact you had some crazy hectic scenes in a few Genesis games that much have crumpled the SNES. Blast processing was just pure marketing jargon which at best was about how the Genesis had a faster CPU (though the SNES had the better graphics chip), but if you paid enough attention to the tech stuff you'd be able to point out and argue SNES games were much more colorful, and someone could counter that they've seen nothing quite as crazy as Gunstar Heroes on the SNES.

Talking about the Cloud is probably where we get modern blast processing: there's a benefit there, but some of the hype was some of the biggest bullshit I've ever witnessed.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
It´s becoming harder to quantify what next gen is about. During the last generation we had HD graphics. Now we have what? The marketing is pushing 1080p and 60fps as the new buzzwords to quantify the quality of a game. There was no such nonsense during the 2D era. We had Pal and NTSC differences but thats it.

Edit: Before someone whants to misunderstand this: 60fps IS important and obviously not a busszword per se - the question was why the mainstream is suddenly incapabable to discuss a game without shouting "but but is it 1080/60?" every two sentences. 60fps are not a buzzword, but many people use it like one often without knowing what they talking about. (the feel of 60!) And thats a recent developement.

You either don't know what mainstream means or you don't have any idea about what the mainstream talk about regarding games.
As much i would wish it was 30/60fps isn't talked about by anyone but enthusiasts.
If the beginning of this generation could shake some things up and bring more awareness to the argument it would be wonderful though.
 

Yusaku

Member
Someone may have already mentioned this, but there's a difference between the FPS for the number of times the game can update the screen, and FPS for the number of frames of animation a sprite had. There is essentially no 2D sprite based game that had 60fps sprites so it's kind of pointless. In a 60fps 3D game everything can run at 60fps pretty straightforwardly, so that's why it's such a big deal.
 
People were buying 3dfx's Voodoo graphics cards from as early as 1996 to get 60fps in early 3d games.

Not totally true. They got those cards for better performance sure but also because they featured texture correction, Z buffers, antialiasing, and texture filtering among dozens of other things software rendering didn't do well.
 

Eusis

Member
Someone may have already mentioned this, but there's a difference between the FPS for the number of times the game can update the screen, and FPS for the number of frames of animation a sprite had. There is essentially no 2D sprite based game that had 60fps sprites so it's kind of pointless. In a 60fps 3D game everything can run at 60fps pretty straightforwardly, so that's why it's such a big deal.
There's probably some obscure game by a crazy bastard, and now that I think about it I wonder if Rayman being limbless was in part an attempt to be that smooth in animation without actually drawing that many sprites. But the best we had was probably 15 sprites per second, maybe 30. I definitely know the animation in Donkey Kong Country and Symphony of the Night was amazingly smooth compared to prior 2D games, but have 3D run at that frames per second and it would be standard or even substandard.
Not totally true. They got those cards for better performance sure but also because they featured texture correction, Z buffers, antialiasing, and texture filtering among dozens of other things software rendering didn't do well.
Yeah, the leap forward those cards offered was insane. You'd PLAUSIBLY get someone saying a game running PC versus consoles looked the same today and while looking kind of dumb or crazy it isn't wholly without merit. If they said the same about a Voodoo or Voodoo 2 equipped PC running the same game a console had and STILL said that they may be legally blind.
 

Tain

Member
Someone may have already mentioned this, but there's a difference between the FPS for the number of times the game can update the screen, and FPS for the number of frames of animation a sprite had. There is essentially no 2D sprite based game that had 60fps sprites so it's kind of pointless. In a 60fps 3D game everything can run at 60fps pretty straightforwardly, so that's why it's such a big deal.

It isn't pointless at all to have the positions of the sprites or the scrolling of the background at 60fps.
 

Arkage

Banned
Where do theses ideas come from? As others have noted you're wrong on every point.


Most games did not do this, however. It was very jarring when sprites were updated at a lower rate than the scrolling.

Is this the flickering effect in NES games? I remember it being in quite a few games, like most of the Megamans, Dragon Warriors, Castlevanias. I think a lot of NES games had the flickering sprite issues. I definitely remember there being slowdown in Megaman 3 at the least.
 

wazoo

Member
The Dreamcast had a good amount of games with 60hz support as well. In addition, it came with an RGB (Scart) cable. Not only was it nice to finally have our games run fullscreen and at the correct speed, it was also the best picture quality I had ever seen on any 15khz CRT screen at the time outside of arcades.

Technically all DC games are 60HZ compatible. The ones that are not are because the devs were lazy (you can force them by software). The only reasons the game may crash is if the game has FMV which is coded at 50HZ. As long as the game is purely computer graphics, there is no problem to switch between 50 and 60HZ.

Dreamcast was a big step forward (60Hz, 480p, VGA, RGB in standard), then the ps2 put everybody one gen backward.
 

ChrisG683

Member
There's no limit in SA2 PC, but the game logic speed increases accordingly. Maybe it could be modded to work.

You can't "fake" framerate through emulation... especially on older systems where even a slight difference in timing can cause games to completely not work (which is one of the reasons why it took 15 years for SNES emulators to gain "full" compatibility). The best you could do is run the game at double speed, but I'd imagine that would be quite hard to play :)

Gotta go fast
 

baphomet

Member
Someone may have already mentioned this, but there's a difference between the FPS for the number of times the game can update the screen, and FPS for the number of frames of animation a sprite had. There is essentially no 2D sprite based game that had 60fps sprites so it's kind of pointless. In a 60fps 3D game everything can run at 60fps pretty straightforwardly, so that's why it's such a big deal.

That's completely incorrect.
 

Bigbillybeef

Neo Member
Not totally true. They got those cards for better performance sure but also because they featured texture correction, Z buffers, antialiasing, and texture filtering among dozens of other things software rendering didn't do well.

True enough. It's probably not a great example. I do specifically remember buying later iterations of the voodoo cards (probably 3 and the banshee) to try and hit 85fps because I could see the flicker on my monitor below 85hz
 
Honestly the colors angle is probably more like the resolution/FPS angle, MAYBE the fact you had some crazy hectic scenes in a few Genesis games that much have crumpled the SNES. Blast processing was just pure marketing jargon which at best was about how the Genesis had a faster CPU (though the SNES had the better graphics chip), but if you paid enough attention to the tech stuff you'd be able to point out and argue SNES games were much more colorful, and someone could counter that they've seen nothing quite as crazy as Gunstar Heroes on the SNES.

Talking about the Cloud is probably where we get modern blast processing: there's a benefit there, but some of the hype was some of the biggest bullshit I've ever witnessed.

Don´t get me startet on the cloud. ^^ Again, i wasn´t critisizing the discussion about framerates but rather the (bad) usage of the term by some people.


You either don't know what mainstream means or you don't have any idea about what the mainstream talk about regarding games.
As much i would wish it was 30/60fps isn't talked about by anyone but enthusiasts.
If the beginning of this generation could shake some things up and bring more awareness to the argument it would be wonderful though.

Maybe i am wrong. Well, lets hope i am wrong here. ;) I just notice a trend to measure the qualitiy of a game purely by technical numbers. Which is a shame.
 

noobasuar

Banned
I remember when we had more 60 FPS racers two generations ago then 30 FPS racers.


Too bad most people care about shiny eye candy then they do about EXCELLENT GAMEPLAY. (With some genres only achievable at 60 FPS)

I'm happy I have high standards when it comes to games.
 

wazoo

Member
It's odd that people don't care about 60fps. It's not like this is something new.

People never care about anything technical.

They did not care about having slow PAL conversions in the past or having to play with a composite cable instead of RGB scart. People who care are in the minority.
 
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