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pedrothelion
Member
(04-30-2014, 05:41 PM)

Originally Posted by kittens

So, Tyson mentions going on a six person raid. How does that work in Destiny? Does that mean six people going through an entire mission together, or does it mean some mixture of separate 1-to-3 people groups going through a mission separately but then coming together to fight a boss in a public event, or...?

The way I've heard them described was that "raids are activities that you can do with 6 of your friends" (or something to that effect). They've also been described as end game activities that require a lot of strategy. To me they sound like 6 man dungeons and that everyone participating is in a single group.
kittens
Member
(04-30-2014, 05:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by pedrothelion

The way I've heard them described was that "raids are activities that you can do with 6 of your friends" (or something to that effect). They've also been described as end game activities that require a lot of strategy. To me they sound like 6 man dungeons and that everyone participating is in a single group.

If that's true, then I'm very very excited. :-)
pedrothelion
Member
(04-30-2014, 05:46 PM)
This is a pretty good video describing how the game actually plays. The main concern I've had after watching the footage has been that the AI doesn't seem very reactive. However, this guy from IGN seemed positive about the AI and basically said that the AI is on par with what you find in Halo.
Last edited by pedrothelion; 04-30-2014 at 05:49 PM.
Jackbooted
Junior Member
(04-30-2014, 05:51 PM)
Bungie keeps saying this isn't an MMO but goddamn if they aren't following the model pretty closely. I played WoW for a long time and everything they are talking about in regards to the pve side of things sure looks a lot like what WoW (and other MMOs do). Hub world - check. Strike missions (small party dungeons) - check. Talent trees - check. Raids - check. Gear rarity (and enhancement) - check. Loot vault (bank) - check.

Is there some sort of stigma associated with MMOs that Bungie feels they need to go through mental contortions to distance themselves from the phrase?
Karl2177
Member
(04-30-2014, 05:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by pedrothelion

The way I've heard them described was that "raids are activities that you can do with 6 of your friends" (or something to that effect). They've also been described as end game activities that require a lot of strategy. To me they sound like 6 man dungeons and that everyone participating is in a single group.

Yeah. To add to this I think Raid is simply another gamemode like Strike. Bungie said Strike was limited to 3 players and the article made it sound like the party size for Raids were bumped up to 6. The UI from the only ViDoc looked like it could support up to a 6 person party.
Jest Chillin
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(04-30-2014, 05:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackbooted

Bungie keeps saying this isn't an MMO but goddamn if they aren't following the model pretty closely. I played WoW for a long time and everything they are talking about in regards to the pve side of things sure looks a lot like what WoW (and other MMOs do). Hub world - check. Strike missions (small party dungeons) - check. Talent trees - check. Raids - check. Gear rarity (and enhancement) - check. Loot vault (bank) - check.

Is there some sort of stigma associated with MMOs that Bungie feels they need to go through mental contortions to distance themselves from the phrase?

It's because they've actively designed everything outside of The Tower to allow for significantly smaller numbers than MMO's allow. So while technically, the unifed game world means that the amount of players qualifies as "Massive," There isn't any content that we know of that allows for zerg amounts of players anywhere outside of The Tower.

That and they know their fans are primarily Shooter fans and while there's some crossover between FPS and MMORPG fans... there's not a lot.
HiredN00bs
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jest Chillin

It's because they've actively designed everything outside of The Tower to allow for significantly smaller numbers than MMO's allow. So while technically, the unifed game world means that the amount of players qualifies as "Massive," There isn't any content that we know of that allows for zerg amounts of players anywhere outside of The Tower.

That and they know their fans are primarily Shooter fans and while there's some crossover between FPS and MMORPG fans... there's not a lot.

I think a good way of describing the game to someone who is feeling the MMORPG vibe is by pointing out that Destiny is made from different DNA. This is what an MMO looks like when it is evolved from an action game instead of a role-playing game.
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittens

If that's true, then I'm very very excited. :-)

That's pretty much it. We'll try to pry more details out of Smith's evil clutches, but rightly he wants to preserve the challenge by ensuring we don't expose solutions or ruin surprises.

Last time I played, we spent over 45 minutes just cracking the entrance.

Originally Posted by Jackbooted

Is there some sort of stigma associated with MMOs that Bungie feels they need to go through mental contortions to distance themselves from the phrase?

People tend not to associate MMOs with great action games (even when many are). They also hear "subscription!" loud and clear.

But more importantly, we are building an FPS. It just happens to be infused with what we think are the greatest hits from other genres like MMOs and RPGs.

The elevator pitch for Destiny doesn't do it justice. There's a lot going on that isn't easily lensed through existing concepts. It's one of the many reasons we're going to let lots of people play prior to launch.
Last edited by urk; 04-30-2014 at 06:14 PM.
Lasty95
Junior Member
(04-30-2014, 06:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

I think a good way of describing the game to someone who is feeling the MMORPG vibe is by pointing out that Destiny is made from different DNA. This is what an MMO looks like when it is evolved from an action game instead of a role-playing game.

Reckon that's a pretty good explanation to be fair.
kittens
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(04-30-2014, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by pedrothelion

This is a pretty good video describing how the game actually plays. The main concern I've had after watching the footage has been that the AI doesn't seem very reactive. However, this guy from IGN seemed positive about the AI and basically said that the AI is on par with what you find in Halo.

Nice, that's definitely one of the better summary videos out there.

Edit : Thanks for the confirmation, urk!
Trickster
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(04-30-2014, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wizman23

After watching the original 7 minute gameplay video a few more times 1 thing I noticed was how many different branching paths there were in the short demo they gave. Not just branching paths that lead to a different way to apprach an encounter, but branching paths that lead to totally different areas.

I noticed this immediately as well. Which just make it that much more frustrating to me that the footage we're getting from the game does next to nothing to actively show off these things. When you watch the video and focus on the action, which is the natural thing to do, you don't notice certain things. Like how in several places of the video, the areas that are being fought in, are clearly pretty big open spaces.

However due to the way the game gets presented in the video. Most people simply won't notice.

I think the bungie could alleviate most peoples concerns or negative impressions of the game if they released 20 minutes of footage that shows off what it's like to just visit a new area for the first time. Provided that the areas actually live up to what bungie are saying about their game.
daedalius
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(04-30-2014, 06:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

That's pretty much it. We'll try to pry more details out of Smith's evil clutches, but rightly he wants to preserve the challenge by ensuring we don't expose solutions or ruin surprises.

Last time I played, we spent over 45 minutes just cracking the entrance.

This sounds amazing. Please show a raid sometime soon!
HiredN00bs
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

But more importantly, we are building an FPS. It just happens to be infused with what we think are the greatest hits from other genres like MMOs and RPGs.

See, I always felt like calling Halo an FPS was doing it a disservice. Core design concepts like dedicated action buttons for grenades and melee, vehicles, and even equipment in Halo 3, armor abilities in Halo: Reach, and now supers in Destiny really go a long way in making these games more than just shooters, in my opinion. When I think FPS, I think walking and firing, but maybe that's just because I grew up with the genre.
Last edited by HiredN00bs; 04-30-2014 at 06:20 PM.
Booties
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by veloxStrix

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/...ed-destiny-and
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/...ils/#sf2747761
http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/28/566...e-friends-list

I just know that all of these seemed really positive. There was another video I saw that really went into both the positives and negatives in really good depth, but I can't seem to find it. :c

She also misquotes Bungie in such a way in her article that it's hard to belief that she doesn't do it on purpose. The line about Bungie saying they "talked a big game" was in the context that they were about the back it up, not in the context that they were apologizing like she portrays it.

I'll check these out when I get home.

Originally Posted by pedrothelion

This is a pretty good video describing how the game actually plays. The main concern I've had after watching the footage has been that the AI doesn't seem very reactive. However, this guy from IGN seemed positive about the AI and basically said that the AI is on par with what you find in Halo.

Bungie has a reputation for being bad at their own games. I wouldnt' be surprised if the AI was nerfed in these videos so they could have a steadier camera and capture a lot more action.
broony
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(04-30-2014, 06:32 PM)
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Hey urk. I read in one of the articles that raids contain puzzles that will require the whole raid party to solve.

Do you think they mean that you have to work out how best to attack an overwhelming force, or that there are literally puzzles to be worked out?
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 06:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by broony

Hey urk. I read in one of the articles that raids contain puzzles that will require the whole raid party to solve.

Do you think they mean that you have to work out how best to attack an overwhelming force, or that there are literally puzzles to be worked out?

Yes.
broony
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Yes.

Ha. Fair enough. Enjoying the coverage this week. So many smaller details have come out.
PedroLumpy
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Jackbooted

Bungie keeps saying this isn't an MMO but goddamn if they aren't following the model pretty closely. I played WoW for a long time and everything they are talking about in regards to the pve side of things sure looks a lot like what WoW (and other MMOs do). Hub world - check. Strike missions (small party dungeons) - check. Talent trees - check. Raids - check. Gear rarity (and enhancement) - check. Loot vault (bank) - check.

Is there some sort of stigma associated with MMOs that Bungie feels they need to go through mental contortions to distance themselves from the phrase?

Well in WoW, a couple hundred people could just decide to leave Ogrimmar and walk together as a group to Thunderbluff. That might be the 'MMO' characteristic Destiny is missing.

N.B. I do not view that as a negative.
jorgegus
Junior Member
(04-30-2014, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mulligan

Huge Borderland vibes.

Exactly my thoughts
Trickster
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(04-30-2014, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

But more importantly, we are building an FPS. It just happens to be infused with what we think are the greatest hits from other genres like MMOs and RPGs.

Are you taking more things from RPG's than talent trees and loot with stats on them? Personally my greatest hope for Destiny is that running around an area will feel similar to something like Skyrim, where you constantly stumble upon interesting stuff like a dungeon, quests, a group of npcs you could talk to and have it lead to something new. Those things are what made that game come alive and made me feel like a person living in that world, and with how I've heard you bungie folks talk about discovery and exploration, I hope Destiny with it's big open areas will capture that magic that something like Skyrim has when it comes to exactly that of discovery and exploration.
kittens
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(04-30-2014, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by broony

Hey urk. I read in one of the articles that raids contain puzzles that will require the whole raid party to solve.

Do you think they mean that you have to work out how best to attack an overwhelming force, or that there are literally puzzles to be worked out?

What the hell, that sounds awesome too! I have a hunch that all the complaints that people (including me) have had about the Destiny info drip will be a distant memory once we finally get a big picture view of the game.
GhaleonEB
knows his net worth
(04-30-2014, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittens

What the hell, that sounds awesome too! I have a hunch that all the complaints that people (including me) have had about the Destiny info drip will be a distant memory once we finally get a big picture view of the game.

It really sounds like we need the beta to get the a good understanding, and that's assuming the beta has a good, vertical slice type scoep to it (mix of missions including raids, the city hub, and MP). Which is not to say Bungie couldn't be doing a better job communicating things. It's odd how wide the gap between what we've been told and what we've seen is, given we're 5 months out. Beta can't come soon enough.
broony
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:51 PM)
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My guess is we will get the strike and the patrol that we have seen in the last few days, plus a slice of PVP with maybe two or three maps.

Hopefully they go for the megaton announcement at E3 of saying the beta is available right now, rather than announcing a further month or two wait.
Ken Masters
Banned
(04-30-2014, 06:52 PM)
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Reminds me of Mass Effect so much
Pop
Member
(04-30-2014, 06:52 PM)
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Urk bringing the good vibes. Destiny sounds amazing going by what we've heard and seen so far.

I still see some people confusing Strike missions as the main game.
kittens
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(04-30-2014, 07:41 PM)
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Bungie just tweeted a really great gameplay analysis video. I highly recommend checking it out.

http://youtu.be/xhLBgqPnSUk
athevolunteer
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(04-30-2014, 07:43 PM)
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After watching this I cannot wait for the beta *_*
TheRealTalker
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(04-30-2014, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittens

Bungie just tweeted a really great gameplay analysis video. I highly recommend checking it out.

http://youtu.be/xhLBgqPnSUk

thanks for the vid

thanks for sharing
broony
Member
(04-30-2014, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittens

Bungie just tweeted a really great gameplay analysis video. I highly recommend checking it out.

http://youtu.be/xhLBgqPnSUk

Nice video. It looks like you have to work hard for your supers. I haven't seen any instances where you actually lose your super. I wonder if that is possible, maybe an enemy that drains you.
Gordon0Freeman
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(04-30-2014, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Yes.

Can you comment on the openness of Patrol Mode for those that criticized how linear the gameplay looked in the video? Can't wait for the game.
Mix
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(04-30-2014, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

That's pretty much it. We'll try to pry more details out of Smith's evil clutches, but rightly he wants to preserve the challenge by ensuring we don't expose solutions or ruin surprises.

Last time I played, we spent over 45 minutes just cracking the entrance.



People tend not to associate MMOs with great action games (even when many are). They also hear "subscription!" loud and clear.

But more importantly, we are building an FPS. It just happens to be infused with what we think are the greatest hits from other genres like MMOs and RPGs.

The elevator pitch for Destiny doesn't do it justice. There's a lot going on that isn't easily lensed through existing concepts. It's one of the many reasons we're going to let lots of people play prior to launch.

God this game is going to be amazing. Urk, are y'all planning anything for RTX this year? It would be pretty cool to have y'all down here!

Also, as for the enemies not looking very difficult or reactive, I'm sure it's more of a demo thing, you know? like it's there to show us what the game can and will be, not necessarily a preview of the AI
Memorabilia
Member
(04-30-2014, 08:40 PM)

Originally Posted by SJRB

That was profoundly boring. It looks great of course, but good lord.

Agreed. And the music is fucking horrible. I'm not feeling this at all. Maybe playing a demo will change my mind.
daedalius
Member
(04-30-2014, 08:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittens

Bungie just tweeted a really great gameplay analysis video. I highly recommend checking it out.

http://youtu.be/xhLBgqPnSUk

That was pretty great. Think I'll go ahead and preorder.
xBladeM6x
Member
(04-30-2014, 08:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mulligan

Huge Borderland vibes.

This is what I've been saying. It's feeling too much like Borderlands. Which apparently makes me the only person on Earth who thinks that's a bad thing.
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 08:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gordon0Freeman

Can you comment on the openness of Patrol Mode for those that criticized how linear the gameplay looked in the video? Can't wait for the game.

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.
Mix
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(04-30-2014, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

That being said, say if you're on earth and you jump into lets say Moth yard, then can you traverse the entirety of the surrounding areas? Could you make it all the way up to King's Watch and beyond?
A Serious Man
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(04-30-2014, 08:47 PM)
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I wanted a first-person Diablo and it looks like that's what I'm getting. I'm on board.
broony
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(04-30-2014, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

Space dribble.

So when is the EU pre - alpha then? Ha.
Overdoziz
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(04-30-2014, 08:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

Please tell me Destiny has theater mode.
Gordon0Freeman
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(04-30-2014, 08:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

Cool thanks. Really appreciate that you take the time to communicate with us here to give us a glimpse of this new world.
daedalius
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(04-30-2014, 08:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

preorderd, can't wait for the beta!
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mix

That being said, say if you're on earth and you jump into lets say Moth yard, then can you traverse the entirety of the surrounding areas? Could you make it all the way up to King's Watch and beyond?

It's continuous and connected, yup. In fact, the opening of the Strike is also connected and accessible in the same way. Rooster Teeth reported in running into a random boss before entering the strike proper. That's a public event, and you could tackle it with a mixed group comprised of players in the strike, playing campaign, and on Patrols.

Once you head into the Strike proper, it becomes private automagically.
ChosenPredator
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(04-30-2014, 08:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

It's continuous and connected, yup. In fact, the opening of the Strike is also connected and accessible in the same way. Rooster Teeth reported in running into a random boss before entering the strike proper. That's a public event, and you could tackle it with a mixed group comprised of players in the strike, playing campaign, and on Patrols.

Once you head into the Strike proper, it becomes private automagically.

so what happens if everyone loses does the enemy expand throughout the area and get worse?
broony
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(04-30-2014, 08:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

It's continuous and connected, yup. In fact, the opening of the Strike is also connected and accessible in the same way. Rooster Teeth reported in running into a random boss before entering the strike proper. That's a public event, and you could tackle it with a mixed group comprised of players in the strike, playing campaign, and on Patrols.

Once you head into the Strike proper, it becomes private automagically.

If you wanted to, can you just complete the public event and then just hang around for the next one to start? Or do you have to move off and look for another one?

Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions.
Mix
Member
(04-30-2014, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

It's continuous and connected, yup. In fact, the opening of the Strike is also connected and accessible in the same way. Rooster Teeth reported in running into a random boss before entering the strike proper. That's a public event, and you could tackle it with a mixed group comprised of players in the strike, playing campaign, and on Patrols.

Once you head into the Strike proper, it becomes private automagically.

Oh my god,I can't handle this, I'm going to cry.
Anything on you guys possibly coming to RTX?
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 09:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by ChosenPredator

so what happens if everyone loses does the enemy expand throughout the area and get worse?

Enemies are always being reinforced in these spaces. There are less heated spaces, but for the most part, public events are happening in enemy territory.

Originally Posted by broony

If you wanted to, can you just complete the public event and then just hang around for the next one to start? Or do you have to move off and look for another one?

Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions.

Yeah, you could stay rooted and wait for something else to kick off. ;)
urk
butthole fishhooking yes
(04-30-2014, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mix

Oh my god,I can't handle this, I'm going to cry.
Anything on you guys possibly coming to RTX?

Those guys and girls are really great and we'd love to drink beers and play games with them unless gus is in one of his notorious gassy phases.

Nothing to announce tho.
kittens
Member
(04-30-2014, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by urk

Sure. I actually ran around an empty Patrol in our theater just to demonstrate the size and variation of our spaces. Patrols are a singular embodiment of the "activities for every mood" mantra we keep talking about. You can pick up objectives offered by City Factions on the fly, ignore them altogether and hunt for treasure and enemies, go in alone or with a Fireteam, jump into public events, hop on a Sparrow and whip around doing sweet jumps off of airplane wings, or just fight enemies to level up your abilities, weapons, and gear.

Campaign gives you a more bright line through the world, with cinematic bookends and private encounters. Patrols beg you to wander and make your own fun.

Originally Posted by urk

It's continuous and connected, yup. In fact, the opening of the Strike is also connected and accessible in the same way. Rooster Teeth reported in running into a random boss before entering the strike proper. That's a public event, and you could tackle it with a mixed group comprised of players in the strike, playing campaign, and on Patrols.

Once you head into the Strike proper, it becomes private automagically.

duuuuuuude

This sounds so good!
Interficium
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(04-30-2014, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by xBladeM6x

This is what I've been saying. It's feeling too much like Borderlands. Which apparently makes me the only person on Earth who thinks that's a bad thing.

Yes. You are definitely the only person. A unique snowflake.
RSB
Member
(04-30-2014, 09:07 PM)
Thanks for the answers Urk. That really sounds great.

BTW, can you comment anything on alternate control schemes? More specifically, I'd love to know if Bumper Jumper will make a return (or a close equivalent, at least)

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