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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
7LTqKaT.jpg

Thread three! Whoo hoo!

High Score List
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So I’m completely new to Magic. What’s it about? Where can I learn to play?

Well the first thing you should do is check out an awesome page put together by TheSeks:
http://peg.gd/1LE

Magic: The Gathering is the original trading card game, released over 20 years ago. Players in Magic represent powerful wizards known as “planeswalkers”, who use a library of varied and powerful spells to wage war against each other. As a Magic player you’ll be summoning creatures to fight for you, laying powerful enchantments that change the game, and calling forth lightning bolts and mystic powers to devastate the opposition.

If you’re totally green to the game, there are a number of resources to help you learn to play. In rough order of helpfulness:

1.)Magic: the Gathering: Duels of the Planeswalkers: Released on Steam, PSN, and XBLA, this game is designed specifically to help train new players into the game. Its got some limitations, but its an excellent place to start.

2.)Find a local game store, show up on a Friday night, and just ask someone to teach you. This really is the best way to learn. There are always a lot of pre-constructed decks available for less then fifteen dollars, and when you feel more confident then build your own custom deck or get involved in a Draft, where everyone opens new packs of cards and passes them around, building decks out of what they get.
Locate stores near you: http://ww2.wizards.com/StoreAndEventLocator/

3.)The official Magic website: http://magic.wizards.com/en/new-to-magic
The Magic website is generally crammed with excellent information, including a dozen or so weekly columns on everything from advance strategy to behind the scenes insight from the head designers themselves. But this specific link takes you to an introductory page, with a few tutorials and videos to help you out.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm really bent that I didn't figure out to speculate on a bunch of online cards when VMA was close - Vintage Dredge is a relatively cheap deck, so of course there's demand for its staple cards like Undiscovered Paradise. Even Golgari-Grave Troll is up like 800% to 8 bucks a piece from 90 cents 2 months ago.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Mtgonline is super shit now :(

The latest LR podcast they mention how everyone complained hardcore about V2 --> V3 as well, mostly because of serious memory leaks in V3. :lol
 

bigkrev

Member
The latest LR podcast they mention how everyone complained hardcore about V2 --> V3 as well, mostly because of serious memory leaks in V3. :lol

I want to say it was the transition from V1 to V2, but it was so bad that the whole client was in no-pay mode for a month and they gave free draft sets to everyone who attempted to log on for a month when they finally got stable, dubbing it "Chuck's Virtual Party" and it once again destroyed the system. Seriously.

It's been over 10 years of total incompetence!
 
Previous changeovers in MTGO were an utter clusterfuck. I've actually been playing the V4 client since forever. That it works at all is a step beyond any other version update.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Someone call me when Slivers get spoiled so I can stop listening to Nirvana and crying.
 

rCIZZLE

Member
Won a FoW in a modern tournament this afternoon. Happy I got one last taste of success before the inevitable heartbreak at the PTQ next week and the GP next month. Even had to fight back from a Lili ultimate that put me to 3 lands against Jund in game 3.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You know what would have been cool? If the foil versions of stuff in VM were the original art.
 
Interesting Jund deck that won a 2k in SF today:

4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Scavenging Ooze
2 Varolz, the Scar Striped
2 Brain Maggot
1 Reaper of the Wilds

3 Dreadbore
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ultimate Price
4 Thoughtseize
3 Domri Rade

4 Mana Confluence
4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
3 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malady

SB
2 Doom Blade
2 Magma Spray
1 Shock
2 Golgari Charm
2 Skylasher
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Putrefy
1 Duress
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Agreed. But wasn't there some kind of falling out with the old artists or something way back when?

I don't think so. They use the original art all the time. I think they don't like that the art on, say, Bazaar of Baghdad looks very much like D&D art rather than the semi-realistic style they use most of the time.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";118723379]Interesting Jund deck that won a 2k in SF today:

4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Scavenging Ooze
2 Varolz, the Scar Striped
2 Brain Maggot
1 Reaper of the Wilds

3 Dreadbore
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ultimate Price
4 Thoughtseize
3 Domri Rade

4 Mana Confluence
4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
3 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malady

SB
2 Doom Blade
2 Magma Spray
1 Shock
2 Golgari Charm
2 Skylasher
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Putrefy
1 Duress[/QUOTE]

It's Prophetic Flamespeakers time!!!!

(I don't quite get the point of all that ramp in such an aggressive deck)
 

bigkrev

Member
Just sprung to my head

We are not getting reprints of Sulfurious Springs/Adakar Wastes/Karplausan Forest/Underground River/Brushland in Khans, right? Only the Apocalypse pains are getting reprinted?
 
I don't think so. They use the original art all the time. I think they don't like that the art on, say, Bazaar of Baghdad looks very much like D&D art rather than the semi-realistic style they use most of the time.



It's Prophetic Flamespeakers time!!!!

(I don't quite get the point of all that ramp in such an aggressive deck)

Flamespeaker has a lot of problems that Brimaz has, he's a dominant three-drop that still winds up outclassed by 4-drops like Polly Cracker. The old 3-drop on turn 2 is a strong way to blow people out with Flamespeaker and I'm guessing that's his intention here. With all the 2-drop removal, he can clear the path and still play cards off his trigger on turn three which is pretty solid. He only actually has 4 ramp cards,he's just trying to beat people with card advantage by playing two cards a turn early or "free" spells.

Geist of Saint Traft on turn 2 to get under mana leak is how I beat UWR in modern with Bant Conscription.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's Prophetic Flamespeakers time!!!!

(I don't quite get the point of all that ramp in such an aggressive deck)

Need mana to play the cards Flamespeaker is exiling and Domri Rade is "drawing".

Neat little spin on Jund aggro, only possible with a card like Flamespeaker. In fact, I believe it goes like:

Domri Rade +1:
Creature? -> Put into hand -> Cast it
Spell? -> Attack with Flamespeaker -> Exile spell(s), cast them
 

noquarter

Member
Just sprung to my head

We are not getting reprints of Sulfurious Springs/Adakar Wastes/Karplausan Forest/Underground River/Brushland in Khans, right? Only the Apocalypse pains are getting reprinted?
Yeah, pretty curious on this as well. Any time people have brought up Fetches being reprinted, people always post the quote from MaRo saying they are doing cycles in sets/blocks, But this isn't a cycle, so that means if allied ones are reprinted in Block, we get these again in M16.

Also like how quick they went against what was said about cycles, barely two blocks later and they have gone back to favoring one over the other.
 
Played EDH again with my Prime Speaker deck. The guys I'm playing with are pretty chill, so the games are fun. I won two out of three, although the third was only because the Red player stuck a Magus of the Moon with a Darksteel Plate. I had basics; the other guys didn't. So I slowly killed Moon guy, and cloned his Magus right before I did so.

I'm glad I broke from my comfort zone and put a deck together. With the right playgroup, its a decent way to kill an afternoon.
 

Firemind

Member
Speaking of Prophetic Flamespeaker, an update on Standard U/R devotion:

3-0 in an 8 man and 3-1 in a daily yesterday, only losing to Black Devotion. Turns out the deck still loses to random turn two Pack Rats. When they don't I can often grind them out. What I do is I run out the Frostburns, the BTEs and Reckoners out, so they have to eat removal and then drop the Flamespeakers and Stormbreaths when they're hopefully out of removal. I do the same thing against U/W control. I only lose if they draw 3 Supreme Verdicts or I don't draw my Stormbreaths.

Flamespeaker overperformed. Reckoner underperformed. I always side them out for Chandra's Phoenix against MBD and U/W. They're only good against Jund Monsters and Burn. BTE is much better than Ash Zealot since the former allows for explosive turns with (double) Nykthos. Turn // Burn has also overperformed. There were so many times I made Polukranos or a Desecration Demon a 0/1 and shoot them dead with Staticaster or Chandra. Speaking of Chandra, she has won me a few games. I still want to squeak in a Ral Zarek, since he also won me games I otherwise wouldn't have won. Untapping Staticaster or an extra land to overload Mortars is just so good. And it gives me more removal against Nightveil, which is a pain in the ass to deal with if you can't pressure.

Think I'll continue to test this and probably build it IRL for the GP in July.
 
Sweet, new thread time. :)

Is there any speculation or information on when Garruk is to be spoiled? He's the last big card we're waiting for, right?
 

OnPoint

Member
I don't think so. They use the original art all the time. I think they don't like that the art on, say, Bazaar of Baghdad looks very much like D&D art rather than the semi-realistic style they use most of the time.

Not true. It's making me wish I kept my old copies of Inquest now. I remember reading way back around 5th or 6th edition that some of the old artists like Anson Maddocks and Mark Poole and the like stopped because they didn't like how they were being paid, or royalties were being done, or something, so they changed a bunch of the iconic art because of it.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Not true. It's making me wish I kept my old copies of Inquest now. I remember reading way back around 5th or 6th edition that some of the old artists like Anson Maddocks and Mark Poole and the like stopped because they didn't like how they were being paid, or royalties were being done, or something, so they changed a bunch of the iconic art because of it.

They used all the original art for the Master's Editions up to a few years back. I don't think it necessarily costs very much to use the original Bazaar of Baghdad art or anything, they probably own the rights to the art, actually.

Speaking of old art, what the fuck is actually supposed to be happening in the art for Ancestral Recall? It looks like he's just suffering from a really bad headache or something.
 

noquarter

Member
Not true. It's making me wish I kept my old copies of Inquest now. I remember reading way back around 5th or 6th edition that some of the old artists like Anson Maddocks and Mark Poole and the like stopped because they didn't like how they were being paid, or royalties were being done, or something, so they changed a bunch of the iconic art because of it.
I was looking for a bit last night because I saw an article a couple years back that said the same thing. The way the art was commissioned caused problems when they were trying to commission new art.

Couldn't find the article last night, but I thought it was a case where they could use the art for the first printing or something and WOTC used that to keep original art online, but artists were upset that they were not commissioned for online art.

Will keep looking, but maybe we are both just making something up.
 

OnPoint

Member
They used all the original art for the Master's Editions up to a few years back. I don't think it necessarily costs very much to use the original Bazaar of Baghdad art or anything, they probably own the rights to the art, actually.

Speaking of old art, what the fuck is actually supposed to be happening in the art for Ancestral Recall? It looks like he's just suffering from a really bad headache or something.
Maybe they didn't lose the rights? I can't recall the specifics, but something def happened.
 
Just randomly thinking about the future of keyword mechanics. We know the following things.

* R&D does not like landwalk and intimidate, and have recently decided on another evasive mechanic that they like more, according to Maro, but we won't see it for about 2 years. They don't like the two abilities because either they are completely useless or have the potential to completely overrun your opponent, and for that reason, the abilities are already rarely put on "good" creatures.
* Maro at least does not like protection and regenerate. Regenerate because of how you actually have to put up a "regeneration shield" before the creature dies and how the creature is tapped after it regenerates and is removed from combat. Protection because of how it's a bunch of different abilities put together.

While it would be a shame to not get reprints of cards like Black Knight again, I do think that protection should probably go, with its different aspects split into different abilities.
1. Can't be damaged - this could probably become a new keyword like "resistance", as in "Resistance to red (This creature can't be damaged by red sources)"
2. Can't be enchanted/equipped - this could really be dropped altogether. It is rare when this doesn't get covered by "can't be targeted", and if they really wanted this functionality, they could just spell it out.
3. Can't be blocked - this could just be written out as "can't be blocked by green creatures" or whatever.
4. Can't be targeted - they could probably expand hexproof, with like "Hexproof from black (This creature can't be targeted by black spells or abilities your opponents control)". This does allow the controller to target the creature, but disabling that doesn't open much design space and if they really wanted it, they could say it explicitly.

As for regeneration, I think it should probably stay. It has the benefit of not causing death triggers and not causing auras to go to the graveyard, and the fact that you have to activate it before death is an unfortunate necessity for that. The fact that the creature is tapped and removed from combat is probably confusing, but I don't think it's worth creating a new ability just to remove that part.
 

OnPoint

Member
Regeneration could definitely use an upgrade. Maybe something like Undying becoming a more repeatable, reprintable ability would be a cool idea. Or maybe have it so that if the creature comes into play from your hand, they have a counter placed on them, and if they die with a counter on, they blink, thus coming back without a counter? I never appreciate repeated Regeneration, honestly.
 

f0rk

Member
As for regeneration, I think it should probably stay. It has the benefit of not causing death triggers and not causing auras to go to the graveyard, and the fact that you have to activate it before death is an unfortunate necessity for that. The fact that the creature is tapped and removed from combat is probably confusing, but I don't think it's worth creating a new ability just to remove that part.

"Gains indestructibility until end of turn" seems effectively the same to me and is less confusing.
 

ultron87

Member
New thread yay!

I like the style of "Regeneration" they put on Tenacious Dead in M14 where you pay the moment the creature dies to bring it back. I think this is how most new players guess regeneration works at first, so that is a good benefit. The big difference, of course, is that the creature actually goes to the graveyard for a moment so enchantments and whatnot fall off. So you probably couldn't just redefine the existing regeneration keyword to mean that.

Perhaps they could do something similar but make it a replacement effect on the creature dying instead where you get a chance to pay before it hits the yard. I think that would be okay with the rules.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Regeneration could definitely use an upgrade. Maybe something like Undying becoming a more repeatable, reprintable ability would be a cool idea. Or maybe have it so that if the creature comes into play from your hand, they have a counter placed on them, and if they die with a counter on, they blink, thus coming back without a counter? I never appreciate repeated Regeneration, honestly.

Revive 2G (Return this creature from your graveyard to play tapped. Activate this ability only if CARDNAME died this turn)
 
I suppose "indestructible until end of turn" does mostly do what regeneration does, but it just doesn't feel right for a troll to become indestructible as opposed to regenerating, so it does have a different feel to it.

Pictures for those new intro pack cards are available now.
borderlandmarauder2.jpg


While people were saying that this may be better than Gore-House Chainwalker, due to the ability to both attack for 3 and actually block, the eyepatch definitely makes it strictly better.

The Chronostutter art is also really neat, and deserves to be on a better spell.
chronostutter.jpg


Also, two new cards:
krenkosenforcer.jpg

kapshokitefins.jpg


I guess this means Krenko will be the red legendary of this set, though then again, we do have a card called Heliod's Pilgrim and it's safe to assume that Heliod is not in this set. I don't know what they were going for with Kapsho Kitefins.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
The one I'm really interested in is their search for a blue combat mechanic. I'm a fan of what I call Icetouch (when CARDNAME deals damage to a creature, tap that creature. It doesn't untap during its controllers next untap step)
 
The one I'm really interested in is their search for a blue combat mechanic. I'm a fan of what I call Icetouch (when CARDNAME deals damage to a creature, tap that creature. It doesn't untap during its controllers next untap step)

Yeah, I do think that could work too. It even has the benefit of having already appeared, on several snake tribe cards in the Kamigawa block. I've suggested it on Maro's blog multiple times, but he never responds, though that could mean anything.
 

kirblar

Member
I also am with them on not liking landwalk/intimidate for the same reasons Hexproof sucks.

Protection is also way too f'n complicated for the value it adds and is better off in smaller, compartmentalized doses like in the 1WW lifelinker in M14.

Regeneration is fine, but needs a mechanical rework to work the way everyone wants it too (i.e. if this would be destroyed, you may pay X, if so regenerate it.) I suspect we're about to get that w/ M15, given that DOTP 15 has regenerating critters in it.
 
Chronostutter makes me sad. First, I would've guessed it would've been a white card. Second, I would've guessed it would've been half the cost. Oh well.
 

kirblar

Member
Chronostutter makes me sad. First, I would've guessed it would've been a white card. Second, I would've guessed it would've been half the cost. Oh well.
They don't like that effect in white. (I think I agree, its too much of a tempo thing which shouldn't be in white's wheelhouse)
 
They don't like that effect in white. (I think I agree, its too much of a tempo thing which shouldn't be in white's wheelhouse)

I guess being an instant is what changes it up. Oust costs W for fuck's sake. I bet it was 2U or 3U out of design, and development tacked a couple extra on.
 

Crocodile

Member
I can understand landwalk since its a bit more variable and more often useless than intimidate but I don't understand the issue with intimidate. Why is flying ok but intimidate bad? Furthermore for the sake of limited if nothing else, colors other than White and Blue needs access to some form of evasion and due to flavor/color pie, they get less access to flyers.

Protection is like several abilities wrapped up in one but I see no reason to exile rather than just keep it to higher rarities. With the DEBT acronym, it shouldn't be that hard to learn and the mechanic can do good work when applied well. Does EVERY single mechanic be INSTANTLY grokable to new players. It takes just a tiny bit of extra work to learn.

Replacing regeneration with something like the Tenacious Dead mechanic could work but it really isn't the same thing and then requires a TON of extra text on any card they use it with :/

Yeah, I do think that could work too. It even has the benefit of having already appeared, on several snake tribe cards in the Kamigawa block. I've suggested it on Maro's blog multiple times, but he never responds, though that could mean anything.

It means he hates you :p

The one I'm really interested in is their search for a blue combat mechanic. I'm a fan of what I call Icetouch (when CARDNAME deals damage to a creature, tap that creature. It doesn't untap during its controllers next untap step)

That name is problematic since I assume they'd want to put such a mechanic on creatures that have no association with Ice. Not sure its something I'd want to see every set either. It doesn't seem to do as much good "work" as other evergreen mechanics do but I admit I played very little Kamigawa limited.
 

kirblar

Member
Flying works the same in every matchup. Intimidate does not. That "randomly hosed cause of what you were playing" thing rather than "specifically hosed because of it" thing is what they're going after.

I think this is a result of the Hexproof + Evasion stuff also causing them to look at the Evasive side.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Well I mean, lets think about this. Blue combat mechanics. Combat mechanics are roughly evasion effects and effects that trigger on dealing/taking damage, or attacking or blocking right? Bue already has the evasive mechanic. What makes sense for blue and could go on tons of creatures?
 
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