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ashecitism
Member
(07-23-2014, 07:09 PM)
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from facepunch

Looks like Valve is adding a actual joystick to the controller taken from the latest client beta:

Edit/update:

Originally Posted by ashecitism

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ained-by-Valve

While I was furiously scanning each room the tour went through for any instance of the number "3", I noticed a Valve employee using what appeared to be a fully-functioning prototype of the analog stick Steam controller. I spoke with one of the machinists working on the project, and he offered me some insight onto how the analog stick came to be.

First up, he admitted that adjusting to the radical dual trackpads of the Steam controller is the biggest problem new users have. While he (and pretty much everyone else at Valve) swear that the dual trackpads are absolutely necessary, and that they really do make all the difference, it's not as easy to convince people who've never used them.

The machinist said that the new prototype's analog stick was tied to movement, in order to "ease new players in" to using the two trackpads, by starting them off using just one for aiming. While he said that the prototype had been successful, and that players were eventually able to transition to the dual trackpad layout, its big disadvantage that the controller's d-pad had to be cut to make room for the stick.

When I asked if an analog stick would make the final cut, he told me he wasn't sure, and said that the controller has been through a whole bunch of revisions already, and will probably have quite a few more before its release.

It's weird the employee would mention the "d-pad" when Valve has been pimping the trackpads for that function.

also this was found in the latest steam beta build

Last edited by ashecitism; 08-24-2014 at 04:16 PM.
theshape31
Junior Member
(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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Adding a left joystick increases my interest a great amount (assuming this is true).
Chuck
Still without luck
(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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Looks like they don't have much faith in those trackpads.. >_>
Ceallach
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(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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No dpad is a huge mistake.
StuBurns
Banned
(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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Slowly turning into a normal gamepad.

Keep at it guys.
L~A
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(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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Ah, pretty good news then. Will be nice for games designed for controllers, like console ports and whatnot.
Mellahan
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(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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No d-pad? That's... concerning.
VisceralBowl
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(07-23-2014, 07:11 PM)
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This controller is looking less and less interesting. I want to original model with the screen and 4 buttons back.


Also, did they get rid of the buttons on the bottom of the controller?!? Why?
nvm
Last edited by VisceralBowl; 07-23-2014 at 07:17 PM.
Silky
(07-23-2014, 07:12 PM)
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Where the hell is the D-Pad?

The touch pads defeat the purpose of a stick...what the fuck...

What benefit does a stick have
ttocs
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(07-23-2014, 07:12 PM)
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Those trackpads were always a big mistake. The should just bite the bullet and start fresh without them.
2spooky4me
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(07-23-2014, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ceallach

No dpad is a huge mistake.

Don't worry its coming.

So is another analog stick.
Orayn
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(07-23-2014, 07:13 PM)
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EDIT: I take that back, I think a real d-pad would have been a better choice.
Last edited by Orayn; 07-23-2014 at 07:18 PM.
Bricky
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(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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So... we're just ending up with a normal gamepad now? I mean, I already got my Dualshock 3 for that, and the Dualshock 4 an 360/One controllers work just fine too, I don't see the point in replacing buttons with joystick when you have trackpads and want to make a true PC-gaming controller (which needs many buttons more than anything else).
Last edited by Bricky; 07-23-2014 at 07:16 PM.
ashecitism
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(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by VisceralBowl

This controller is looking less and less interesting. I want to original model with the screen and 4 buttons back.


Also, did they get rid of the buttons on the bottom of the controller?!? Why?

They're still there. LP - RP

Left Paddle - Right Paddle

edit: my bad

LG - RG

not sure what the G stands for, they used to call them paddles
Last edited by ashecitism; 07-23-2014 at 07:16 PM.
Massa
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(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mellahan

No d-pad? That's... concerning.

Don't worry, it will be an Xbox 360 controller by the time this thing comes out.
Nerfgun
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(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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Now drop the touchpads from 2 to 1 and put it in the center... yessss

It's been fascinating watching Valve go through these contortions but I suspect they will land closer to the 'traditional' gamepad than they anticipated when they set out.

Sorry lefties
Cartman86
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(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by VisceralBowl

This controller is looking less and less interesting. I want to original model with the screen and 4 buttons back.


Also, did they get rid of the buttons on the bottom of the controller?!? Why?

LG and RG
Freedom = $1.05
Akimbo Dogs
(07-23-2014, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by ttocs

Those trackpads were always a big mistake. The should just bite the bullet and start fresh without them.

The trackpads are meant to let you play games without native controller support, like Civ 5 or the witcher.
Leafhopper
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(07-23-2014, 07:15 PM)
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But guys the trackpad will be just as a D-pad!

Ha.

That said it does look a lot better.
Orayn
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(07-23-2014, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by ashecitism

They're still there. LP - RP

Left Paddle - Right Paddle

Pretty sure LP and RP are for clicking the pads. LG and RG are the back grip buttons.
VisceralBowl
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(07-23-2014, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by ashecitism

They're still there. LP - RP

Left Paddle - Right Paddle

Left Pad, Right Pad

Originally Posted by Cartman86

LG and RG

Oh, there they are. Thanks!
jay_clark
Junior Member
(07-23-2014, 07:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Massa

Don't worry, it will be an Xbox 360 controller by the time this thing comes out.

Damn, beaten to it
StuBurns
Banned
(07-23-2014, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nerfgun

Now drop the touchpads from 2 to 1 and put it in the center... yessss

It's been fascinating watching Valve go through these contortions but I suspect they will land closer to the 'traditional' gamepad than they anticipated when they set out.

Sorry lefties

Drop the one touchpad for sure, but leave the other one on the right.

Just make a mirrored version for lefties.

#EverybodyWins
blamite
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(07-23-2014, 07:16 PM)
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How many times will this get redesigned before they just realize it's a bad idea and drop it?
RyosukeTH
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(07-23-2014, 07:16 PM)
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A little bit better, but still looks to me a hot mess. I trust Valve, though.
ashecitism
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(07-23-2014, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orayn

Pretty sure LP and RP are for clicking the pads. LG and RG are the back grip buttons.

Originally Posted by VisceralBowl

Left Pad, Right Pad

Oh, there they are. Thanks!

yeah I edited. People used to call those buttons Paddles, that's why my confusion.
Orayn
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(07-23-2014, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by blamite

How many times will this get redesigned before they just realize it's a bad idea and drop it?

Making a controller to go with living room PCs is totally a bad idea.
Echoenigma
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(07-23-2014, 07:17 PM)
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Uh, okay. Why are we compromising with the luddites, again?
Interfectum
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(07-23-2014, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by blamite

How many times will this get redesigned before they just realize it's a bad idea and drop it?

Why would they drop it? They are iterating on a controller through crowd sourcing. Changing the design isn't an admission of a mistake.
ashecitism
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(07-23-2014, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Silky

Where the hell is the D-Pad?

The touch pads defeat the purpose of a stick...what the fuck...

What benefit does a stick have

If you read impressions, not many people liked the pads as sticks. The pads in native mode can function as d-pads pretty well according to devs.
yogloo
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(07-23-2014, 07:18 PM)
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Hype level deflating.
Sir TapTap
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(07-23-2014, 07:18 PM)
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They're willing to lose symmetry, but not to add a d pad.

Does Valve even know what a platformer is? Tetris? Fighting games? Shmups? Beat 'em Ups? These people work in games, right?
exmachina64
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(07-23-2014, 07:18 PM)
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Every redesign kills my interest slightly more.
Orayn
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(07-23-2014, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir TapTap

They're willing to lose symmetry, but not to add a d pad.

Does Valve even know what a platformer is? Tetris? Fighting games? Shmups? Beat 'em Ups? These people work in games, right?

Some people say the touch-pads make serviceable d-pads due to the haptic feedback.

Originally Posted by Interfectum

Why would they drop it? They are iterating on a controller through crowd sourcing. Changing the design isn't an admission of a mistake.

If you ever change something with the intention of making it better, that means the whole thing was a bad idea and you should just give up. As an engineer, I find nothing wrong with this statement.
Harlock
Banned
(07-23-2014, 07:20 PM)
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Great. Now is like a PSP.
ashecitism
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(07-23-2014, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir TapTap

They're willing to lose symmetry, but not to add a d pad.

Does Valve even know what a platformer is? Tetris? Fighting games? Shmups? Beat 'em Ups? These people work in games, right?

I don't know how many times this has to be said. Google for impressions or videos and you can see people playing fighters and platformers with this. The maker of Super Meat Boy liked it enough etc
rbenchley
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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Final version one year from now:

BruiserBear
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by exmachina64

Every redesign kills my interest slightly more.

and the chances of it succeeding increase.
Herbspiceguy
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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Wish they'd just drop it, seems like a moneysink at this point. Imagine all the dev costs that went into all these (re)designs.
Tobor
Banned
(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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I hate all you naysayers. Fuck.

Stop fucking with it and give me one already, Valve. I want to play Civ and old FPS's on the couch without a KB/M!
Denton
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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I really want this hard.

Mass Effect trilogy couch PC gaming here I come.

Also, FUCK THE D-PAD.

I don't play fighting games, so I don't need it, the touchpad will be good enough replacement for it for every nonfighting game.
blamite
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orayn

Making a controller to go with living room PCs is totally a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Interfectum

Why would they drop it? They are iterating on a controller through crowd sourcing. Changing the design isn't an admission of a mistake.

Making a proprietary controller with weird tech that nothing is being designed for and that also doesn't work with anything else doesn't seem like a path to success. Granted I haven't actually used one so maybe it actually works great but it seems like a hard sell when everyone already has Xbox and Playstation controllers that work just fine.
Duxxy3
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(07-23-2014, 07:21 PM)
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I found the final version... it took me a while, but here it is.

AJLma
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(07-23-2014, 07:22 PM)
Seems redundant.
Orayn
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(07-23-2014, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by blamite

Making a proprietary controller with weird tech that nothing is being designed for and that also doesn't work with anything else doesn't seem like a path to success. Granted I haven't actually used one so maybe it actually works great but it seems like a hard sell when everyone already has Xbox and Playstation controllers that work just fine.

It's not proprietary. It works on PC, Mac, and Linux, you can remap every part of the controller to do whatever you want, and there's supposed to be an XInput mode at some point as well.
pinkurocket
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(07-23-2014, 07:22 PM)
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This seems like an even worse solution. I thought the 'touchwheels' were to replace thumbstick controls?? The symmetrical buttons seemed superior. Eh, now every control scheme is gonna default that thumbstick for movement and it will negate the supposed 'mouse-like' precision the touchy circles have?
Interfectum
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(07-23-2014, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by blamite

Making a proprietary controller with weird tech that nothing is being designed for and that also doesn't work with anything else doesn't seem like a path to success. Granted I haven't actually used one so maybe it actually works great but it seems like a hard sell when everyone already has Xbox and Playstation controllers that work just fine.

They aren't looking to replace the 360 controller within a year. This is a long-term (10+ years) plan.
MCN
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(07-23-2014, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Echoenigma

Uh, okay. Why are we compromising with the luddites, again?

Because a certain subset of gamers won't accept anything other than a Dualshock or Xbox pad, and anything that has anything extra must be shot down, because their favourite console is perfect and nothing can ever possibly be better than it.
Randdalf
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(07-23-2014, 07:23 PM)
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Note that it still has the two trackpads, as fully featured as ever - they're not going away, which is great, in my opinion.
StuBurns
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(07-23-2014, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by pinkurocket

This seems like an even worse solution. I thought the 'touchwheels' were to replace thumbstick controls?? The symmetrical buttons seemed superior. Eh, now every control scheme is gonna default that thumbstick for movement and it will negate the supposed 'mouse-like' precision the touchy circles have?

But you don't control movement with a mouse, you do it with WASD.

That's what I've always thought was so stupid about this design. It's two mice, pointless.

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