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F2P games done wrong?
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
Ace Combat Infinity.
A fuel mechanic that severely restricts the amount you can actually play. 1 match = 1 fuel, and the amount of fuel you get (this is my impressions from the beta, it may have changed) is pitiful. You can get more fuel but not enough for it to matter. What makes this even more horrible is the game itself is actually really good. It's a GOOD Ace Combat game, unlike Assault Horizon. If this was a decent priced physical release or downloadable, it would be awesome, but it's 'free to play'. The one silver lining is you can just outright buy the single player campaign for 20 bucks and bypass the fuel crap for that.
A fuel mechanic that severely restricts the amount you can actually play. 1 match = 1 fuel, and the amount of fuel you get (this is my impressions from the beta, it may have changed) is pitiful. You can get more fuel but not enough for it to matter. What makes this even more horrible is the game itself is actually really good. It's a GOOD Ace Combat game, unlike Assault Horizon. If this was a decent priced physical release or downloadable, it would be awesome, but it's 'free to play'. The one silver lining is you can just outright buy the single player campaign for 20 bucks and bypass the fuel crap for that.
SniperHunter
Banned
planetside 2
unlocking stuff takes too long and you have to pay for all the cool gear
unlocking stuff takes too long and you have to pay for all the cool gear
every F2P game is going to have a monetization model, how else is it going to make money. sure most monetization models are scummy but great F2P games tend to have very reasonable monetization models that usually tend to lead to cosmetic options only. Yet people still dismiss those games as being the same F2P fodder i guess
ashecitism
Member
Not liking them doesn't mean people have to turn a blind eye to good F2P models.
mcz117chief
Member
So many things wrong with this post
The fuel system serves it's purpose well, it isn't any worse than limiting raids or lives in other games.
Ace Combat Assault Horzion is bad ? No, it isn't. It is different but not bad (the only thing bad about the game are the helicopter missions which are too long), it actually has the best PVP by far in any of the Ace Combat games and has one of the best weather effects in the history of video games.
Substandard
Member
Most of them are fairly shameful, but I think the EA mobile games (Heroes of Dragon Age and Dungeon Keeper) are the worst I've seen. I give special hatred to Star Wars The Old Republic, as I think subscriber only quest rewards (that are notably better) might be the worst idea in the history of gaming. Way to go EA!
I thought I had written off F2P forever until about a year ago when Path of Exile / DOTA2 / etc. came out which all have great F2P models. Even the Marvel Heroes model (which does have double XP boosts / rarity boosts / etc.), isn't too bad since you can at least play the game and unlock additional heroes for free and they aren't too stingy with boosts as rewards in game.
I thought I had written off F2P forever until about a year ago when Path of Exile / DOTA2 / etc. came out which all have great F2P models. Even the Marvel Heroes model (which does have double XP boosts / rarity boosts / etc.), isn't too bad since you can at least play the game and unlock additional heroes for free and they aren't too stingy with boosts as rewards in game.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Almost all of them (99.98 percent)
A game is a virtual world, where anything goes as far as it can be programmed
Now imagine in this virtual world the developers program in a bunch of inconveniences, annoyances , grind and tedium and time/paygates
and then charge you to remove them (or in the vast majority of cases just ease them a bit)
that right there is at it's very core wrong and poor game design and you don't have any reason to put up with it.
A game is a virtual world, where anything goes as far as it can be programmed
Now imagine in this virtual world the developers program in a bunch of inconveniences, annoyances , grind and tedium and time/paygates
and then charge you to remove them (or in the vast majority of cases just ease them a bit)
that right there is at it's very core wrong and poor game design and you don't have any reason to put up with it.
MrCunningham
Member
Of course not. It gives you the right to wish death upon the level designer developer's third cousin twice removed. Now you can either wait a day to wish death upon his third cousin once removed, or wish death upon him immediately for just 50 platina.
Really? I think it's one of the best. I never paid and never felt like I was at a serious disadvantage, at least not moreso than in any other game where other players are stronger after playing for months longer than me.
Except that's not true, of course. There are plenty of f2p games that aren't like that. I'll always give the same example; Kingdom of Loathing - an awesome web-based game which you can play perfectly happily without paying a penny, but you can pay to buy awesome items as well. There are some leaderboards that you can get on without paying for awesome items, because there are some modes of play where awesome items are forbidden. Yes, you have to wait to get your limited turns, but everyone has to do that. Everything can be bought with in-game currency - including the awesome pay-for items, and there's an active in-game mall where you can make plenty of money if you know what you're doing.
Which, I guess, is why a lot of people continue to play it, and you should too.
Turin Turambar
Member
They introduced that options in the Goty edition, which was released when the game was half dead already.
Smite had that since day 1.
There are some good F2P games who still require currency to get better characters yet doesn't feel scummy
Metal Slug Defense is a great example, heck, SNKP gaves you a shitload of medals to get a competitve enough deck to compete with almost everyone. Marvel Puzzle Quest has a good model too, even though if requires some constant playing. Sonic Dash is a great example too if you don't care that much for the score. And the list goes on.
I don't want to say that F2P is a good concept, since the majority of games in the app store had horrible monetization system, but there are tons of good cases where the system works.
At least for me the worst cases of F2P are the empire/city builders, since lots of them had slow construction, require premium currency to get the better stuff, and after a while feel like an obligation to play rather than something that you enjoy
Metal Slug Defense is a great example, heck, SNKP gaves you a shitload of medals to get a competitve enough deck to compete with almost everyone. Marvel Puzzle Quest has a good model too, even though if requires some constant playing. Sonic Dash is a great example too if you don't care that much for the score. And the list goes on.
I don't want to say that F2P is a good concept, since the majority of games in the app store had horrible monetization system, but there are tons of good cases where the system works.
At least for me the worst cases of F2P are the empire/city builders, since lots of them had slow construction, require premium currency to get the better stuff, and after a while feel like an obligation to play rather than something that you enjoy
I wouldn't say Marvel PQ is a good one.. I felt like you have to buy some extra character slots, or you would lose them. And there's multiple versions of each character, which makes it annoying.
ThreePiMatt
Member
Man, hearing people say Tribes Ascend, Super Monday Night Combat, and Planetside 2 make me sad (surprised no one mentioned Mechwarrior Online, another game I really enjoyed). Those are three games that I've each put in hundreds of hours and happily gave them money because I never thought they were remotely close to P2W. The only thing I ever really bought were boosts, but given the amount of fun I was having with those games (and still am, in the case of PS2), I've felt it more than worth it.
Contrast that to something like Watch_Dogs, which I put all of 2 hours into and felt I threw away $60. Or even Wolfenstein, which while I generally enjoyed, was 11 hours and I'll probably never touch it again.
The idea of paying upfront for a multiplayer only game just does not make sense anymore. From a sheer quality standpoint, Titanfall doesn't really do anything better than Tribes did or PS2 does. Call of Duty is not worth $60 for multiplayer. Battlefield has proven its not worth $60 anymore. MMOs are not worth the upfront costs.
Contrast that to something like Watch_Dogs, which I put all of 2 hours into and felt I threw away $60. Or even Wolfenstein, which while I generally enjoyed, was 11 hours and I'll probably never touch it again.
The idea of paying upfront for a multiplayer only game just does not make sense anymore. From a sheer quality standpoint, Titanfall doesn't really do anything better than Tribes did or PS2 does. Call of Duty is not worth $60 for multiplayer. Battlefield has proven its not worth $60 anymore. MMOs are not worth the upfront costs.
ephemeral garbage
Member
Had to leave TERA because of this. Miss my popori lancer so much
don't miss the constant feeling of despair, though.The slot isn't that big of deal since at the beggining they had a low cost and you don't need all the chars that you need to suceed.
But with your quote I reminded an aspect that I hate on marvel. The iso. after a while you need a shitload of that material to level up your characters, specially in level 3, even if you buy it with real money, you need to spend too much money to get only one char at max level with 3 stars
I dismiss them because I don't like playing them, psychologically speaking. I have a permanent unease that I should be spending money for the proper experience.
pinkurocket
Member
Mobile games thread.
Had to leave TERA because of this. Miss my popori lancer so much
I left Lineage because of the opposite. They introduced these monthly items packets you can buy with various consumable (regular items and timed exp modifiers) and cosmetic items and one month they included these scrolls that had a 33% chance to succeed and over enchant your weapon or fail and do nothing (instead of destroying your equipment). With enough money (average $1000-2000) you could over-enchant out a single item to such a high degree that as long as those players are still active they can permanently lock out the rest of the server, those who didn't spend thousands in that particular month, from a bunch of content due to the inability to compete.
OneEyeTwoHead
Banned
I'm interested in why Heroes of the Storm was listed. I'm quite interested in playing the game (already know about extra heroes costing moniez) but I haven't heard about anything else.
Someone fill us in please.
Someone fill us in please.
LurkerPrime
Member
This is sort of a difficult question, because free-to-play games have gone into such extremes. I'll split them into two groups, where I can more easily give my answer...
The first group is the traditional, archetypal "free-to-play" game, often on mobile, Facebook, and PC. Games like Angry Birds, Dungeon Keeper iOS, Farmville, or the plethora of Asian MMOs out there are what I'd cite as examples. I will call this category "fee-to-play" since they are entirely predicated on, literally, paying a fee to enable playing the game.
Fee-to-Play games done wrong? All of them. They're all terribly designed, and they all suck - there's no defense they can muster to these charges.
The second group is much less common, and championed by Valve. These games are defined by their actually being free, with zero required charges to play the game. You all know the big ones, like DotA or Team Fortress 2.. but there are others, a lot of them made by smaller companies and released entirely for free. You know, freeware - Cave Story, some of the older games on GOG.com, some browser-games, concept games, or indie games... I'm not really familiar with these freeware games, but they certainly exist. I will call this category "Freeware." (It's not a perfect term, I know! But free-to-play is due for a divergence, because the term cannot continue as it has.)
Freeware games done wrong? Team Fortress 2. The hats, man.. there's too many. I'm drowning in the hats and I only see hats now when I play that game. Fun as it used to be, now it's all hats. Hats. And that ain't fun at all. While all of the additions are fun, the purity of the game has been lost, in favour of more hats and things to enable hats. HATS!!!
Bonus: Paid retail game done wrong? Guild Wars 2. It's a regular MMO with a paygate designed entirely around fee-to-play ideals. The game is constantly gross and annoying as it prods me to purchase things to make my gameplay experience easier, like Character Slot Boosters, Inventory Boosters, or Bank Boosters - even traditional stuff like XP or Rep boosters. Absolutely wrong.
The first group is the traditional, archetypal "free-to-play" game, often on mobile, Facebook, and PC. Games like Angry Birds, Dungeon Keeper iOS, Farmville, or the plethora of Asian MMOs out there are what I'd cite as examples. I will call this category "fee-to-play" since they are entirely predicated on, literally, paying a fee to enable playing the game.
Fee-to-Play games done wrong? All of them. They're all terribly designed, and they all suck - there's no defense they can muster to these charges.
The second group is much less common, and championed by Valve. These games are defined by their actually being free, with zero required charges to play the game. You all know the big ones, like DotA or Team Fortress 2.. but there are others, a lot of them made by smaller companies and released entirely for free. You know, freeware - Cave Story, some of the older games on GOG.com, some browser-games, concept games, or indie games... I'm not really familiar with these freeware games, but they certainly exist. I will call this category "Freeware." (It's not a perfect term, I know! But free-to-play is due for a divergence, because the term cannot continue as it has.)
Freeware games done wrong? Team Fortress 2. The hats, man.. there's too many. I'm drowning in the hats and I only see hats now when I play that game. Fun as it used to be, now it's all hats. Hats. And that ain't fun at all. While all of the additions are fun, the purity of the game has been lost, in favour of more hats and things to enable hats. HATS!!!
Bonus: Paid retail game done wrong? Guild Wars 2. It's a regular MMO with a paygate designed entirely around fee-to-play ideals. The game is constantly gross and annoying as it prods me to purchase things to make my gameplay experience easier, like Character Slot Boosters, Inventory Boosters, or Bank Boosters - even traditional stuff like XP or Rep boosters. Absolutely wrong.
Green Yoshi
Member
But would you say dropping the free portion and then charging $60 for all the content would be considered the morally right thing to do?
Developers don't have a moral obligation to people who can't take care of themselves, and this is coming from someone with an addictive personality. I've spent over 1,000 hours on Dota 2 and only thing I spent money on was the Compendium.
In fact, I've actually made money from the game through selling some drops.
Pureauthor
Member
Behold and despair
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/14833869/introducing-artifacts-7-21-2014
I remember being excited for this game at some point.
Frankenstrat
Member
Dungeon Keeper
I'm firmly convinced the game was made like this as a social experiment on the part of EA.
No, they just innovated too much and we weren't ready for how much they innovated. We don't deserve their game.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
MrGame&Watch
Member
Casual F2P games aren't for people like you. They are for people who want small bits of entertainment with minimal barrier to entry.
Enthusiasts want limitless entertainment and extended hours of play and are willing to pay upfront for it.
Enthusiasts want limitless entertainment and extended hours of play and are willing to pay upfront for it.
opticalmace
Member
I heard PVZ2 was pretty ugly in that regard. Never got around to playing it, though.
Super Monday Night Combat was just a bad game in general.
Blacklight: Retribution is another one. It's been 2-3 years since I played it but you can unlock the usual weapons/armor/perks/grenades and etc. But, you can unlock these items at a trial basis. If you want to actually buy items the costs are obscenely high and the only way to buy them without paying actual money would be grinding for roughly 10-20 hours. If you're playing casually or haven't played in a week or two you better make sure you have some XP left to re-rent your items. Plus the game is pay-to-win, a lot of OP weapons that would take insane amounts of hours of grinding to get without paying.
Blacklight: Retribution is another one. It's been 2-3 years since I played it but you can unlock the usual weapons/armor/perks/grenades and etc. But, you can unlock these items at a trial basis. If you want to actually buy items the costs are obscenely high and the only way to buy them without paying actual money would be grinding for roughly 10-20 hours. If you're playing casually or haven't played in a week or two you better make sure you have some XP left to re-rent your items. Plus the game is pay-to-win, a lot of OP weapons that would take insane amounts of hours of grinding to get without paying.
I can't say much for Dota 2, but the rest excluding CS:GO since it's not F2P are good examples.
What's your reason?
This sums up my experience with most F2P FPS games, it's absolutely terrible.
Not him, but Dota 2 is 100% F2P. Only things you can buy are cosmetics and tickets to watch tournaments in-game. Every single hero and game mode is completely unlocked from the start (excluding ranked MM which I think requires 150 matches played) unlike League, Smite, etc.
Whaa... Are they serious? It's not enough that you have to buy heroes, they also added the worst part from LoL. Allowing one player to have 15% more health because he has invested a lot more hours into a MOBA is just wrong and unfair.
My interest in that game is now completely gone.
Dungeon Keeper
Wait, wait, wait. That's real? The game actually says that?.... Wow. Just... just wow.
I think that candy crush is not a bad offender for the same reason explained above. Is a game for people who enjoy small tidbits of gameplay. At least when the game was a craze here, I saw tons of friends (casual) playing all the days without spending a dime.
The problem with F2P is more for obsesive gamers like us, who if aren't being whales in those F2P games, are wasting money in tons of games that don't had time to play
The problem with F2P is more for obsesive gamers like us, who if aren't being whales in those F2P games, are wasting money in tons of games that don't had time to play
Portugeezer
Member
Dungeon Keeper
It's funny because it's some devil/demon type creature, like they tried to play a joke whilst at the same time being blunt as fuck.
I found this funnier in the simpsons game, where at the beggining they not only laugh at people who plays that kind of game, but are also very blatant in telling you to spend money. The only F2P from EA that I enjoyed was the golf fame released this year, and I only played for 2 weeks, don't know if they made some changes to make it more "fee to play"
Really? Of all the things to take from LoL, they picked runes? Did anyone actually like that system? All it seemed to do was deter you from using characters you hadn't specialized in because they hadn't grinded for an assload of runes first to optimize them.
Backlogger
Member
I have never spent money on Candy Crush and actually like having a time limit on play sessions. I don't like playing mobile games more than 20 mins at a time anyway.
I am ashamed to admit, as someone who has been staunchly opposed to In App Purchases from the beginning, that I have spent money on Megapolis. Mostly gift cards that were given to me, but some real money too. Its the only game I have spent money on in app purchases. I played for months though before I did.
Since these are two of my favorite mobile games and they offer in app purchases I would actually argue that they are done right, but its just my personal opinion.