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DieH@rd
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(08-11-2014, 10:33 PM)
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https://twitter.com/LogitechG/status...42493155094528

All in all, while some devices [such as generic USB and bluetooth keyboards and mices] can be used without limitation on PS4, controllers that [supposedly] have high pooling rate are restricted. Sony demands advanced security measures for them. Or at least it demands this chip for "full functionality".

Sony. Pls. Don't do this. There is metric shitton of old Logitech wheels in the wild, many of htem are really great [GT Pro, DFGT, G25, G27], and would be mistake not to support them. At least make it right before GT7 is out.
Sir TapTap
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:35 PM)
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Daaaamn that sucks, and bodes poorly for PS3 sticks too.Sticks and wheels aren't something you should have to buy once per console
FranXico
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:36 PM)
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Someone tweet Yoshida about this.
Skilletor
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:37 PM)
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Isn't this the opposite of what Mike Z and the Skullgirls crew have said?

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.p...-for-ps4.4164/
Last edited by Skilletor; 08-11-2014 at 10:41 PM.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:37 PM)
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I'm reading this as the wheel needing a security chip that PS4 doesn't have, not the other way around...
Bundy
Banned
(08-11-2014, 10:38 PM)

Originally Posted by FranXico

Someone tweet Yoshida about this.

Yeah, just tweed: "We want less security, Shu"
JPizzle84
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:38 PM)
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I want my DF GT to work dammit!
Cess007
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:38 PM)
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I'm dumb, so i'm confused. What needs the chip (and doesn't have it)? The PS4 or the wheel? D:
Alchemy
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:39 PM)
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Kinda ambiguous wording, but it wouldn't surprise me if Sony was still worked up about security after the PSP.
Tempy
don't ask me for codes
(08-11-2014, 10:40 PM)
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Is this a kind of chip to prove that the peripheral is officially licensed for use with a PS4? To prevent manufacturers making unlicensed peripherals?
Crimsonclaw111
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cess007

I'm dumb, so i'm confused. What needs the chip (and doesn't have it)? The PS4 or the wheel? D:

The wheel.
Kysen
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:41 PM)
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Isn't this the same route MS took with the 360, verification chip? So in effect my g27 will be useless on ps4 unless some guy in China releases a clone dongle that gets around this limitation.
serversurfer
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:41 PM)
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What kind of functionality can we get without the chip?
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(08-11-2014, 10:42 PM)
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Good thing that I sold my G27. The lack of support for these (quite expensive) third-party peripherals is ridiculous. I literally only used it with GT5.
DieH@rd
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(08-11-2014, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tempy

Is this a kind of chip to prove that the peripheral is officially licensed for use with a PS4? To prevent manufacturers making unlicensed peripherals?

I don't think so. T500 is a high-end wheel from January 2011, and it is announced for all PS4 driving games.
djplaeskool
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:44 PM)
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I'm guessing the T500RS had it already?
Works on PS3/PC, and will still work on PS4.
antibolo
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(08-11-2014, 10:44 PM)
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Wait I thought it was already confirmed that Driveclub would work on existing Logitech wheels?? Why would another game not be allowed to do the same?

Also we already have confirmation from Skullgirls that Sony allows controller backwards compatibility as long as the game implements support from scratch by itself.
darkwing
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by djplaeskool

I'm guessing the T500RS had it already?
Works on PS3/PC, and will still work on PS4.

looks like it
Addnan
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo

Wait I thought it was already confirmed that Driveclub would work on existing Logitech wheels?? Why would another game not be allowed to do the same?

It doesn't
BWJinxing
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:46 PM)
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Its likely just a way to get money out of third party peripherals.

But with the USB exploit on PS3, it kinda makes me wonder if there is some sort of correlation.

Hi Polling devices need chips, thats interesting if true.
androvsky
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:46 PM)
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Has anyone tried using a G27 in War Thunder on the PS4? It's set up to allow all sorts of generic USB input devices, I'd be curious as to what doesn't work.

Also, the statement from Logitech seems to directly contradict what the Skullgirls devs said.
bananafactory
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo

Wait I thought it was already confirmed that Driveclub would work on existing Logitech wheels?? Why would another game not be allowed to do the same?.

The Driveclub director last year DID say that *all* PS3 wheels would be supported by Driveclub on PS4. I read this and ran out and bought a G27 specifically for it.


Unfortunately, lots has happened since then, including Logitech dropping support for their wheels. So we're screwed brah. :(

Likely gonna sell my G27 in the coming weeks
Om3ga
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:47 PM)
Couldn't they just make an adapter or dongle with the chip?
The End
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skilletor

Isn't this the opposite of what Mike Z and the Skullgirls crew have said?

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.p...-for-ps4.4164/

...yeah

i mean, it may be simply that the project cars guys don't want to have to write their own wheel driver, and they'd rather not say that.
Lemstar
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by serversurfer

What kind of functionality can we get without the chip?

Eight minutes, maybe.

Originally Posted by http://akishop-customs.com/PS360Plus.html

PS360+ Software Update and Software Overview PDF Update. PS4 support via autodetect (8 minute timeout), forced PS3 BC mode with 1P+2P.

PS4 Breakdown:
When we announced PS4 capabilities, it was because we got the firmware communicating with the system perfectly, with all inputs being reported including menu and in game commands. However, the PS4 currently utilizes a periodic authentication over the wireless channel that, currently as a wired peripheral, we cannot bypass. This authentication occurs slowly, and only after a period of 8 minutes will it stop receiving commands from the controller, requiring a re-plug into the system. The night we announced, we saw things working, but the 8 minutes was never reached during initial testing so we did not see the issue until after announcing. This was a mistake on our part, mostly because we, just as you, were excited as the prospect of new system compatibility with existing hardware. We got excited and announced too soon. The beta testers saw this issue while giving feedback, and unfortunately we have exhausted our options and will need to come up with a new plan moving forward. We apologize for any inconvenience and the delay in this statement, but we will be looking at new avenues to approach the issue at hand to hopefully allow this compatibility in the near future either through direct firmware update or through hardware expansion. Please feel free to use the current firmware as is, any feedback while using it is appreciated.

ps3ud0
Junior Member
(08-11-2014, 10:49 PM)
Why has it taken this long for this 'chip omission' to be known? Feel like weve been pandered to and strung along on fake hope. Pretty disappointed...

I have little reason to get another wheel when the possible reality is with an expected shorter generation Ill have to replace it again - Im not expecting them to be compatible for decades but its not like these expensive wheels arent built to last...

ps3ud0 8)
Sir TapTap
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skilletor

Isn't this the opposite of what Mike Z and the Skullgirls crew have said?

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.p...-for-ps4.4164/

Though it phrases things nicely, what it actually means is "Devs can write their own USB drivers for unsupported USB peripherals on PS4". (I suspected that - if it was as easy as flipping a switch they would just have said "supported". Don't get mad at Sony, at least they give us the ability to try.)

Sounds like it's up to the dev, not the peripheral maker. Logitech has no practical way of making every racing game developer support their wheels.
Cartman86
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:52 PM)
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God dammit
onQ123
Junior Member
(08-11-2014, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by DieH@rd


https://twitter.com/LogitechG/status...42493155094528

All in all, while some devices [such as generic USB and bluetooth keyboards and mices] can be used without limitation on PS4, controllers that [supposedly] have high pooling rate are restricted. Sony demands advanced security measures for them. Or at least it demands this chip for "full functionality".

Sony. Pls. Don't do this. There is metric shitton of old Logitech wheels in the wild, many of htem are really great [GT Pro, DFGT, G25, G27], and would be mistake not to support them. At least make it right before GT7 is out.

After what happened last time around I can see why they would limit USB support.
panda-zebra
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by DieH@rd

All, while some devices [such as generic USB and bluetooth keyboards and mices] can be used without limitation on PS4, controllers that [supposedly] have high pooling rate are restricted. Sony demands advanced security measures for them. Or at least it demands this chip for "full functionality".

Where does this info come from? I've never seen mention of it before and would like to read up on it.
antibolo
Member
(08-11-2014, 10:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lemstar

Eight minutes, maybe.

That's not the same thing though, here they were trying to imitate the native PS4 controller protocol.

From what the Skullgirls devs have said, it is possible for a game to support non-PS4-native controllers, as long as the game directly implements its own drivers for them. (Said controllers will probably not show up as individual "players" in the PS4 interface and will not be able to access the main PS4 menu, but the game will read input from them.)

So for racing games it would be possible to support non-PS4 wheels as long as the game supports them directly. This is basically what Gran Turismo 3 and 4 did on PS2 (the wheels were USB, but native PS2 controllers were not USB).
Last edited by antibolo; 08-11-2014 at 11:00 PM.
iceatcs
Banned
(08-11-2014, 10:59 PM)
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yeah really shame, after what happen last time.
Wereroku
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(08-11-2014, 11:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo

That's not the same thing though, here they were trying to imitate the native PS4 controller protocol.

From what the Skullgirls devs have said, it is possible for a game to support non-PS4-native controllers, as long as the game directly implements drivers for them.

So for racing games it would be possible to support non-PS4 wheels as long as the game supports them directly.

Yep it sounds like using the official drivers requires a security chip but game devs can write custom drivers to support additional devices. Sounds like a pain in the ass.
Chobel
Member
(08-11-2014, 11:00 PM)
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What did happen last time?
djplaeskool
Member
(08-11-2014, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo


So for racing games it would be possible to support non-PS4 wheels as long as the game supports them directly.

Rushy did mention that Thrustmaster supported Evolution throughout development of Driveclub (most of even their really old videos were done with a T500), so this makes sense.

So the long and short of it is, Logitech can make them work but would need to put in the effort to work with developers and support each game individually. Without dedicated console peripheral support within Logitech, I have a hard time seeing this happening.
Last edited by djplaeskool; 08-11-2014 at 11:05 PM.
iceatcs
Banned
(08-11-2014, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chobel

What did happen last time?

PS3 USB is the security hole. It is how the hack start.

I dunno about Logitech and the chip, but we know that Sony upper the USB security, from PS3 firmware. Some peripherals are lost.
The End
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(08-11-2014, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir TapTap

Sounds like it's up to the dev, not the peripheral maker. Logitech has no practical way of making every racing game developer support their wheels.

Sure they could:

they could write a driver and distribute it to devs

if the PS3 wheels are just rebadges of PC wheels, most of the work in writing the driver is probably done already

(that being said, it's purely a for-the-fans movie, they'd make no additional money from it, they'd much rather have you buy a new PS4 wheel)
Raist
(08-11-2014, 11:03 PM)

Originally Posted by Chobel

What did happen last time?

Hackz.
Sweep14
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(08-11-2014, 11:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wereroku

Yep it sounds like using the official drivers requires a security chip but game devs can write custom drivers to support additional devices. Sounds like a pain in the ass.

Rushy and his team will have some extra work to do it seems... ;-)
Branson
Member
(08-11-2014, 11:04 PM)
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Unless Fanatec or Logitech and Sony get their act together with this stupid bullshit I won't be buying any of their game efforts. GT7 will be ruined without decent wheel support.
Wereroku
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(08-11-2014, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sweep14

Rushy and his team will have some extra work to do it seems... ;-)

Maybe but they would need Logitech to help them out.
JoeTheBlow
Fighting the good fight against the rules of mathematics.
(08-11-2014, 11:08 PM)
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Thats it for me and driving games then, at least on console.
Andrain18
Junior Member
(08-11-2014, 11:09 PM)
Racing Wheels are still a thing? The last time i played one was Gran Turismo 2 on PS1.
orochi91
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(08-11-2014, 11:12 PM)
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It's good knowing that Sony is taking PS4 security seriously.
Branson
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(08-11-2014, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Andrain18

Racing Wheels are still a thing? The last time i played one was Gran Turismo 2 on PS1.

They've never been more important. You can't play iRacing with a controller. GT is best played with a Wheel. Playing racing games with a controller unless they are Mario Kart is terrible. PC racing sims are the best they ever have been and you don't want a controller for that.
Valnen
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(08-11-2014, 11:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Andrain18

Racing Wheels are still a thing? The last time i played one was Gran Turismo 2 on PS1.

Uhh yeah? As long as driving games are a thing, racing wheels will be a thing.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(08-11-2014, 11:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by orochi91

It's good knowing that Sony is taking PS4 security seriously.

A USB issue cost them on PS3. Probably not for the best.
Phanatic8390
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(08-11-2014, 11:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Branson

Unless Fanatec or Logitech and Sony get their act together with this stupid bullshit I won't be buying any of their game efforts. GT7 will be ruined without decent wheel support.

Yup. I'm not shelling out hundreds of dollars to play PS4 driving games when I have a perfectly working G27. I'll just simply not be purchasing those games.
Andrain18
Junior Member
(08-11-2014, 11:18 PM)
I stand corrected. Fellow gaffers i apologize. lol
Fried Food
Member
(08-11-2014, 11:18 PM)
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Fuck that. I refuse to buy driveclub or any driving game on PS4 just outta principal. Make it right Sony. DO IT.

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