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27 Women on why they wear (or don't wear) makeup

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S

SmokyDave

Member
Thinking more on the language of the signs, I'm wondering if there's a degree of defensiveness by the makeup wearers. Perhaps the stress on the individual rather than the collective is a conscious effort to stress that they don't feel they've been conditioned into wearing makeup. Or, maybe the slight stress toward the collective from some of the non makeup wearers is due to them feeling as though not wearing makeup is some larger statement than their individual choice. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, and a sample of 270 women would yield entirely different results.

Dax01 said:
I haven't faced any sort of pressure to wear makeup.
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Well, that's that sorted then.
 
M

Madrin

Member
Opiate said:
So the first reason is interesting to me: "I'm a grown woman and I can do whatever I want." This is similar to many others: "Because I like it," for instance.

On a superficial level, this argument seems difficult to argue against, but I think a more probing analysis might say otherwise. Most importantly: well, why does that woman want to do what she wants to do? Why does the woman like it?

Do she/we think she wants to wear makeup because that's just who she is? Or do we think that her desire to wear makeup is influenced by external forces outside her control -- some of which may be insidious?

As a more extreme example to clarify the concept: imagine a 1950s housewife. A huge number of these women were perfectly happy being housewives. The question we might ask, then, is why was that the case? Did it just happen to be true that a lot more women at that time wanted to be domestic than there are presently? I think a reasonable person could argue that many of these women were influenced by society in such a way that they viewed domestic life as their "proper" place, without ever being aware that they were being influenced in this fashion. They did prefer to be domestic, but those preferences did not spring out of thin air, and were not created by their brains alone (or even created by their brains primarily).

Similarly, the notion that women just want to wear makeup because that's who they are is a suspect notion. How did they get to be "who they are?" How did they end up liking the things they like?
Click to expand...

And even if a woman does prefer to put on makeup because of societal factors, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I'm all for people doing what they want for themselves, but it's almost like there is shame in saying you might alter your appearance in order to look good for other people.

I shave and groom my hair and try to dress nice because I want to look good for other people. I wouldn't do it if I was alone on a desert island. I don't see anything wrong with that attitude. We're very social creatures after all.
 
Diatribe1974

Diatribe1974

Member
Its one thing for a woman to take some makeup and take what's she's got and accentuate it (I.e. make all her good points even better). Its another for those women out there to put so much makeup on that it looks like they took a paint roller over their face.
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Kanik said:
Ya, but you're accessorizing with a dinosaur so it doesn't count. Everyone knows godzilla = makeup substitute.
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More like make-up is an inferior subtitute for Godzilla. Dax, learn to breathe blue fire and you'll be a keeper, trust me.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Dax01 said:
Well, gosh, sorry for talking about my experiences.
Click to expand...
My issue is that you literally cut kirblar off mid-sentence and brusquely put forth your experience as though it were all that was needed to dispel the notion that there are subtle and insidious societal pressures on women to wear makeup.

backslashbunny said:
Yeah, because us makeup-wearers can get a little tired of defending our choice to wear makeup.

I don't care if it's social pressure. It makes me happy NOW. I don't remember why I wore it, but I started in high school, much to the dismay of my parents. None of my friends wore makeup, but I thought it was cool.

10 years later, I look prettier in makeup, so I wear it. I always want to look my best in public. I always want to look my best for my partner, as well, so he can have something pretty to look at.

Many of us don't like being asked why we wear makeup, because often the implication is either we're being deceptive, or that we're being forced to. Yes, perhaps some makeup wearers feel pressured to do so, and that sucks, but some of us like doing so because we actually enjoy it. Some of us enjoy doing it for others, some of us enjoy doing it for ourselves.

Maybe the real question should be why there's such a greater premium on women's beauty than men's beauty, or a question of why is it such a big deal about whether or not a girl wears makeup.


*edit- Besides, some people want to look good to others. Why should that be looked down on? We can all have different priorities, that isn't a value judgment.
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I had wondered if that was the case. I've noted hostility first hand when my missus discusses her love for makeup and a member or two of the assembled is a firm 'no makeup - natural is beautiful' lady. I've not seen such egregious hostility in the other direction.

I think there is starting to be a little pressure on men to use products such as localised moisturisers or concealers, but I thought I'd better not mention it in here.
 
P

P44

Member
Mesoian said:
::Shrugs:: They're all right.

Do what you want, I'm not your dad.

This one though....

cf81b900-ffbf-0131-6fe5-0add9426c766.jpg


Do you pumpkin girl. Do you.
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tell me that's a photoshop of the whiteboard.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
SmokyDave said:
My issue is that you literally cut kirblar off mid-sentence and brusquely put forth your experience as though it were all that was needed to dispel the notion that there are subtle and insidious societal pressures on women to wear makeup.
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Because that part of the sentence was inaccurate. None of my females friends that I have talked to have mentioned that they've felt pressure to wear makeup. And I wouldn't describe any of us as prettier than the average girl.

I understand social pressures women go through, thanks.
 
G

Grunter

Member
My daughter (17) and I talk quite often about her wearing of makeup. Basically she cannot go out of the house even if it is just to go to the supermarket or to the local servo if she hasn't at least put some on. A proper trip to the shops or going to TAFE and it is the full war mask. This can take an hour to do and is the source of some friction especially if I am in a hurry to leave.

The other factor that no-one seems to have mentioned is the cost. She tells me that makeup in the US is vastly cheaper than in Australia so this may be why. She isn't working, has a monthly allowance and can quite easily blow half of it on a couple of makeup items.

But those two things are just my gripes - she loves makeup and likes messing around with different looks, so good for her.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Dax01 said:
Because that part of the sentence was inaccurate. None of my females friends that I have talked to have mentioned that they've felt pressure to wear makeup. And I wouldn't describe any of us as prettier than the average girl.

I understand social pressures women go through, thanks.
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Just 'cause you don't feel it doesn't mean it's not there, to pervert a lovely Radiohead lyric.

I've never been directly or intentionally pressured to hide my emotions but I know my candid nature unsettles some that feel I ought to be a little more stoic, as a 'man'.

Edit: and this is not me 'telling you about your experiences' before we go there. This is me musing on the idea that maybe these influences operate at a subconscious level.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
SmokyDave said:
Just 'cause you don't feel it doesn't mean it's not there,
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Well, yeah, but my problem with his statement was that he said all women go through that kind of pressure. And that's not the case.

And I think the pressure to wear makeup some girls experience — feeling like they HAVE to put makeup on — has something to do with them not being satisfied with how pretty they are without any on. I know if I didn't find myself pretty enough I'd be tempted to put some on everyday. Because women are bombarded with messages of us not having the perfect body.
SmokyDave said:
Edit: and this is not me 'telling you about your experiences' before we go there.
Click to expand...
Yeah, careful not to go there. You've done it in the past.
 
F

Famassu

Member
Dax01 said:
There's no way to prove that.
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We can prove a lot if not all of preferences to be a result of the surrounding culture, we only have to look at history to prove it to be so. Fancy clothing & make-up were once a thing of men in many cultures, but has since been made to be mostly for women. Nothing in make-up is something that is inherent to humans or something that someone will like even if they lived in a vacuum. We have cultures obsessed with beauty and that drives people(perhaps women more) to do a lot of different kinds of things to make themselves "more beautiful", and as a perfectly smooth skin and stuff like that are considered to be beautiful, that means people will do stuff to achieve those beauty standards (which are in no way written in stone, beauty standards have changed a lot during different eras), which just so happens to mean make-up, plastic surgery, hair products, clothing etc. nowadays. And there being people who dismiss the standards doesn't mean socially created preferences don't exist, they are as much a result of the environment they've been raised up in as liking make-up (maybe they were taught make-up is frivilous or maybe they were fed the "a woman needs make-up to look pretty" mantra a bit too much by their mother or someone, which leads some people to contempt & reject that kind of behaviour models).

There are some preferences that are somewhat inherent (i.e. humans like to eat meat because it tastes good because we have tastebuds that taste the umami in meat), but even then culture can alter our ways of perceiving them (i.e. meat has been glorified to a point where some people pathetically think there is no life without meat or a human can't survive without it and even a suggestion to eat less meat (LESS meat, not even an absolute "no meat ever again") gets a response of "lol, U cray-cray U tree-hugging hippie piece of shit"
 
R

real_slime

Banned
When I was 17 and on my male feminist kick (reading about sufragettes, the beauty myth etc) I used to say to girls sometimes 'you don't have to wear make up! you don't have to do it!' thinking i was being a super good guy and all. I grew out of that and I just stay out of people's appearance business now.

I'd wear make up if I was a woman. If it was a thing for men to wear it, I'd do it. I like to look good and bright and clean. But I'm not a woman and men aren't expected to wear make up and everyone would think I was strange if I did so I don't. Sometimes I am slightly envious of the creative ways women can make themselves look with make up and hairstyles. Like I'd like to mess around with my appearance like Grimes but I feel like it isn't the done thing and I don't want to send off signals of saying 'AHHH LOOK AREN'T I DIFFERENT' which is what it would be anyway.
 
S

Sketchbag

Banned
Dax01 said:
Well, yeah, but my problem with his statement was that he said all women go through that kind of pressure. And that's not the case.

And I think the pressure to wear makeup some girls experience — feeling like they HAVE to put makeup on — has something to do with them not being satisfied with how pretty they are without any on. I know if I didn't find myself pretty enough I'd be tempted to put some on everyday. Because women are bombarded with messages of us not having the perfect body.

Yeah, careful not to go there. You've done it in the past.
Click to expand...

The act of seeing people wear make-up is pressure enough. You want to be liked and accepted and the easiest way for a child to do that is to emulate it. The pressure won't come from backhanded comments or what not, just the feeling of being left out. It's why kids are so impreshinable.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Sketchbag said:
The act of seeing people wear make-up is pressure enough. You want to be liked and accepted and the easiest way for a child to do that is to emulate it. The pressure won't come from backhanded comments or what not, just the feeling of being left out. It's why kids are so impreshinable.
Click to expand...

Do you feel the same way about guys who shave or don't have long hair?
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
SmokyDave said:
Thinking more on the language of the signs, I'm wondering if there's a degree of defensiveness by the makeup wearers. Perhaps the stress on the individual rather than the collective is a conscious effort to stress that they don't feel they've been conditioned into wearing makeup. Or, maybe the slight stress toward the collective from some of the non makeup wearers is due to them feeling as though not wearing makeup is some larger statement than their individual choice. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, and a sample of 270 women would yield entirely different results.
Click to expand...

I would wager whatever influence social pressure might exist for makeup would be similar to clothing, hairstyles, etc, which are altogether easily dismissible, unless they find themselves in especially judgmental places like high school, very conservative societies, workplaces, etc. It's worthy of noting that gaf isn't an especially cosmopolitan community, so i don't think this would be the place to gather diverse opinions and experiences on this subject.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Dax01 said:
I normally can't tell when other women are wearing makeup, unless it's super obvious.
Click to expand...

I don't bother to look in social settings, but it's pretty obvious in all of the work settings I've been in, even in tech.
 
S

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
I feel like the use of makeup is kind of instilled towards girls at an early age, whether by "society" or by their peers. I can't talk from personal experience, being a guy; instead I could probably go on a whole tangent about how men are expected to be reserved and not express their feelings or otherwise be classified as "feminine". But I digress.

Having spoken to multiple females about makeup (because I'm interested in how such a thing becomes a phenomenon for an entire group of people) I pieced together that it's the kind of thing women are exposed to at a very early age, usually because of other girls. Which is a fascinating phenomenon all on its own - every girl I've spoken to has found out about makeup from another girl in her classroom in school. The gist of it is that at some point a girl is approached by a "popular" girl and told "it's time you started taking care of the way you look", introducing them to makeup, etc. (Kind of sounds like a twisted version of She's All That) Which then makes the girl who was approached feel pressured into exploring that world. After all, a popular girl did relay this info. So she must know what's what.

But while the beginnings of that are a bit "messed up" the end-result is this feeling of exuberance when wearing makeup. It's empowering as it raises her from feeling standard to amazing. I'm sure it's a similar to the effect of the myspace (now facebook) selfie, where basically it's putting oneself on display and feeling good about it. When I was overweight I felt just grand when I made my profile photo a selfie of myself from an angle that made me look thin. I monitored the likes and checked the comments religiously. People like feeling good about themselves and such venues allow that to happen. Of course, there's an underlying problem where such things (makeup, showing off one's beauty) are needed to feel that self-esteem boost, but I'm sure our society as a whole isn't ready yet to accept that we're all amazing regardless and that be that.

Edit: It could also be argued that my personality type attracts certain type of women with similar upbringings so everything I said is anecdotal at best.
 
S

Sketchbag

Banned
Dax01 said:
I normally can't tell when other women are wearing makeup, unless it's super obvious.
Click to expand...

Not talking only about you. In general.
Valhelm said:
Do you feel the same way about guys who shave or don't have long hair?
Click to expand...

That's more ambiguous but if we nail it down to a certain hair style IE the small mohawk that was the craze a bit ago or the current early 1900s army haircut then yeah. Standard 5 on the top 2 on the side? Probably not as it's a generic haircut that's hard to tell if it was a trend or not.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Dax01 said:
Because that part of the sentence was inaccurate. None of my females friends that I have talked to have mentioned that they've felt pressure to wear makeup. And I wouldn't describe any of us as prettier than the average girl.

I understand social pressures women go through, thanks.
Click to expand...
Just because you don't feel the pressure, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist for everyone- it just isn't something you're personally responsive to. It depends on your priorities/personality/etc. Wasn't trying to say that all women "feel" pressured, only that the pressuring forces are out there due to no fault of anyone specific in particular.

Coming from the male side, I definitely feel the pressures regarding being "in shape" from other people. People definitely look at overweight people differently and it can influence their opinion of them. (i.e. "If they can't take care of themselves, how can they take care of X", etc.) It's also difficult to "compete" with other people on the dating scene, when so much of it is based on a profile pic.

I've been lifting weights for the past 3 weeks, because I just want to look/feel better and be able to actually have strength in my upper body for the first time in my life. Despite all those pressures, I'm still making the decision for myself. Those external pressures definitely contributed to how quickly I jumped on the exercise train after a dietary fix boosted my energy level, but I'm still doing it because I want to, not because anyone's forcing my hand.
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
It's really funny that guys will prefer their girls to be au naturale but that somehow doesn't include not shaving.

Just a thought, not necessarily directed at anyone but I certainly can't be the only one who noticed right?
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
John Kowalski said:
I would wager whatever influence social pressure might exist for makeup would be similar to clothing, hairstyles, etc, which are altogether easily dismissible, unless they find themselves in especially judgmental places like high school, very conservative societies, workplaces, etc.
Click to expand...
Are those pressures easily dismissable though? Bearing in mind (pretty much) everyone passes through school and (pretty much) everyone ends up in a workplace?

We certainly treat pervasive images and notions of the ideal as a real problem.

It's worthy of noting that gaf isn't an especially cosmopolitan community, so i don't think this would be the place to gather diverse opinions and experiences on this subject.
Click to expand...
Eh, you work with what you've got. It is a narrow cross section though, for sure.

ishibear said:
It's really funny that guys will prefer their girls to be au naturale but that somehow doesn't include not shaving.

Just a thought, not necessarily directed at anyone but I certainly can't be the only one who noticed right?
Click to expand...
Eh, I sometimes wonder if some men say they prefer natural because they think it's the answer they're supposed to give.

Give me Jennifer Lawrence levels of eye makeup any day. So hot.
 
F

Famassu

Member
Kanik said:
I feel like the use of makeup is kind of instilled towards girls at an early age, whether by "society" or by their peers. I can't talk from personal experience, being a guy; instead I could probably go on a whole tangent about how men are expected to be reserved and not express their feelings or otherwise be classified as "feminine". But I digress.

Having spoken to multiple females about makeup (because I'm interested in how such a thing becomes a phenomenon for an entire group of people) I pieced together that it's the kind of thing women are exposed to at a very early age, usually because of other girls. Which is a fascinating phenomenon all on its own - every girl I've spoken to has found out about makeup from another girl in her classroom in school. The gist of it is that at some point a girl is approached by a "popular" girl and told "it's time you started taking care of the way you look", introducing them to makeup, etc. (Kind of sounds like a twisted version of She's All That) Which then makes the girl who was approached feel pressured into exploring that world. After all, a popular girl did relay this info. So she must know what's what.

But while the beginnings of that are a bit "messed up" the end-result is this feeling of exuberance when wearing makeup. It's empowering as it raises her from feeling standard to amazing. I'm sure it's a similar to the effect of the myspace (now facebook) selfie, where basically it's putting oneself on display and feeling good about it. When I was overweight I felt just grand when I made my profile photo a selfie of myself from an angle that made me look thin. I monitored the likes and checked the comments religiously. People like feeling good about themselves and such venues allow that to happen. Of course, there's an underlying problem where such things (makeup, showing off one's beauty) are needed to feel that self-esteem boost, but I'm sure our society as a whole isn't ready yet to accept that we're all amazing regardless and that be that.

Edit: It could also be argued that my personality type attracts certain type of women with similar upbringings so everything I said is anecdotal at best.
Click to expand...
I think it goes/can go earlier than that. Girls usually pick up on a lot of habits from their mothers already. A few year old girl sees her mother putting on make-up and the next day they are at their mother's make-up drawer/purse/whatever plastering their face with thick layers of make-up. A lot of the time boys can do this too (i.e. go find their mothers' make-up and go wild) until they are more or less clearly made to understand that they are girls' things and only girls wear make-up.

Make-up is made to be the norm for women from a very early age, so early that children think it's just something women do and it's not something a young girl questions all that much. This isn't something that a lot of women will remember as something that affects their opinions about make-up (since they are too young to remember), but it's definitely something that does have some kind of effect on young, impressionable girls. Of course even if a 4-5 year old sees their mother using make-up, often girls don't feel the need to start using it (more or less) daily until they are a bit older and taking care of your outward appearance becomes more important. How life goes from there can, of course, change the course (i.e. some kind of experience can turn them away from make-up completely or make them obsessed about it even when early exposure to it wasn't anything overly obsessive) but overall I'd say the attitudes/normalization of make-up use comes way earlier than when children enter school. It's something that they see as a part of women's life from day 1 forwards, though of course the smallest of babies don't understand any of it. :p But at some point they will start noticing it even if they don't completely understand it or remember it later on and that will leave an impression about how normal it is for a woman to wear make-up.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
The assumption that there may be societal pressures does not negate the ability of the individual to make a personal choice in line with those pressures, whilst being unaffected by them.

Can't imagine why I'd feel the need to point that out, but you don't want people assuming that women are somehow being robbed of all agency just because of the mere suggestion that perhaps those influences may exist.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that women only wear makeup because society has told them to.
 
Nealand Liquor

Nealand Liquor

Member
People should stop telling other people what to do. This goes for misogynist and feminists alike. When feminists start telling other women what to do/not do, they are no different then the men they oppose.
 
S

Sketchbag

Banned
SmokyDave said:
The assumption that there may be societal pressures does not negate the ability of the individual to make a personal choice in line with those pressures, whilst being unaffected by them.

Can't imagine why I'd feel the need to point that out, but you don't want people assuming that women are somehow being robbed of all agency just because of the mere suggestion that perhaps those influences may exist.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that women only wear makeup because society has told them to.
Click to expand...

Their decision is altered by these factors. They're not robbed of all agency but like men their decisions are not 100% influenced by them alone. It's the same with all styles. Do you truly believe that almost all women decided on their own to wear dresses and almost all men decided against wearing dresses? We're not robbing anyone of their agency. We're saying this does exist and it's not wrong to live within it or out of it but that it exists and is something to think about.
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
Nealand Liquor said:
People should stop telling other people what to do. This goes for misogynist and feminists alike. When feminists start telling other women what to do/not do, they are no different then the men they oppose.
Click to expand...

If that's what you've gathered about feminism/feminists, you're mistaken.

The key factor in the feminist movement is to give women a CHOICE. This means giving women the freedom to make choices and not be judged for it. Whereas in the 50's every woman was expected to become a housewife and that was it, feminism is fighting so that we can pursue education or be stay at home wives if we please~ if that makes us happy.

Feminism, again, is about giving women freedom of choice. This topic here is a feminist movement. Women who chose to wear or not wear makeup are both right and happy, and that's what feminism wants. To give women a voice and opportunities.
 
G

gogosox82

Member
Nealand Liquor said:
People should stop telling other people what to do. This goes for misogynist and feminists alike. When feminists start telling other women what to do/not do, they are no different then the men they oppose.
Click to expand...

When have feminists told other women what to do? Feminism is about given women choice. Some women like wearing make up, others do not but no one is forced to do one over the other especially when they do not wish to do so.
 
P

Philia

Member
I'll be honest. I hate wearing make up.

First and foremost, I'm lazy. Too lazy to shave too.

Second, its a pain in the ass to wash it off too.

Third, I know they can cause blemishes or oily skin if wore under bad conditions (humidity, sweating etc) so I avoid that if possible when I'm at work.

However, I'll say this, I refuse to have my photos taken of me without make up on. I'm horribly anti-photogenic and make-up just happens to alleviate that. It doesn't help that I have hereditary raccoon eyes. :\
 
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