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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

Honestly, if you're not happy with the first few chapters, you might want to revise them. Those are the chapters that will hook the reader or make them put the book back on the shelf. So too editors and agents. I'd revise as the mood strikes, that is until someone bites.
I plan on going back to them as soon as I"m done with this pass. It's always been how I edit: read through entire book, reread chapters one through three right after. I find it helps showcase how much the writing has changed, meaning I can go and fix it up so they're more consistent. Still haven't quite hit that yet, but it shouldn't be too difficult to fix. I just gotta bite the bullet and do it.

A lot of it is in the descriptions, I think. Some are bland or maybe too wordy yet. They remind me of bad YA novels I've gone through, and I don't want to write one of those. The tone and voice I have going are fine though, and I've always found those to be harder to nail down.

Sorry for like, steeling this thread for the last few hours btw guys. Just been one of those nights of revising, revising, and having very few people to check out the revisions that GET IT.
 
I plan on going back to them as soon as I"m done with this pass. It's always been how I edit: read through entire book, reread chapters one through three right after. I find it helps showcase how much the writing has changed, meaning I can go and fix it up so they're more consistent. Still haven't quite hit that yet, but it shouldn't be too difficult to fix. I just gotta bite the bullet and do it.

A lot of it is in the descriptions, I think. Some are bland or maybe too wordy yet. They remind me of bad YA novels I've gone through, and I don't want to write one of those. The tone and voice I have going are fine though, and I've always found those to be harder to nail down.

Sorry for like, steeling this thread for the last few hours btw guys. Just been one of those nights of revising, revising, and having very few people to check out the revisions that GET IT.

All those edits make sense. Tightening up descriptions so they are vivid and comment on the characters without getting in the way of the story's pacing is--for my money--one of the most important things.

And this thread is for writing and writer questions! I don't think anyone is upset when people use the thread. :)
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Helpful! I appreciate your thoughts very much. I also redrafted half of this tonight because you know what, you're right. It doesn't hit the conflict enough. Maybe this does?

Praise that user and their advice, that reads so much better I am awed. I was fine with the previous query letters you were showing(but I'm not a picky person either) and this grabbed me with way more interests.

Sorry for like, steeling this thread for the last few hours btw guys. Just been one of those nights of revising, revising, and having very few people to check out the revisions that GET IT.

I actually really like hearing your progress with the agent search because it gives me someone to take notes on for when I eventually have to go through this hopefully next year. Straight up, I take notes on what does and does not work for you. So your contributions to this thread are always appreciated.
 

JaseMath

Member
Helpful! I appreciate your thoughts very much. I also redrafted half of this tonight because you know what, you're right. It doesn't hit the conflict enough. Maybe this does?

At first Norbert is happy because if magic can exist, then so can change and he isn’t stuck being depressed. However, happiness is soon replaced with dread as Norbert finds out the library isn’t empty, and the spells he learns are not safe.

Soon Norbert is afraid to fall asleep, because no matter how much he wants to stop taking his new medication and be free of the monster-infested library, he cannot. Something there keeps bringing him back. And he’s powerless to stop it.

It's reads much better; I think the brevity makes it more engaging. I've bolded the parts I still think could use some work. I'm not your editor, so forgive me if I'm taking too many liberties.

• I think you should strike the two instances of because. Your sentence structure is strong enough that you don't need to prop up the explanation with it.

• Cannot sounds weird. You're using conjunctions like "can't" elsewhere. I would use it here, too.

Overall, it's much better!
 
At first Norbert is happy because if magic can exist, then so can change and he isn’t stuck being depressed. However, happiness is soon replaced with dread as Norbert finds out the library isn’t empty, and the spells he learns are not safe.

Soon Norbert is afraid to fall asleep, because no matter how much he wants to stop taking his new medication and be free of the monster-infested library, he cannot. Something there keeps bringing him back. And he’s powerless to stop it.

It's reads much better; I think the brevity makes it more engaging. I've bolded the parts I still think could use some work. I'm not your editor, so forgive me if I'm taking too many liberties.

• I think you should strike the two instances of because. Your sentence structure is strong enough that you don't need to prop up the explanation with it.

• Cannot sounds weird. You're using conjunctions like "can't" elsewhere. I would use it here, too.

Overall, it's much better!
I very much appreciate your help, man. Agree with most of them bolds, so off to make some quick changes!

I actually really like hearing your progress with the agent search because it gives me someone to take notes on for when I eventually have to go through this hopefully next year. Straight up, I take notes on what does and does not work for you. So your contributions to this thread are always appreciated.
Glad I can be of help!

It's perhaps a little self indulgent, but once I put a cap to my agent searching for my first book, I wrote up a bit of a guide on what I did/didn't do. It helped act as a nice checklist for what I'm doing now, and I figure if you spend a year failing at something, you're qualified to talk about it :p

https://conkersblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/14/a-complete-guide-to-finding-a-literary-agent/

Might be of help. I need to go through and make some changes though.
 
You know what's fun?

One page summaries. One page summaries are fun.

Oh god, part of me dies when I have to omit important sections of the book but I know it is for the best.
 

Reedirect

Member
You know what's fun?

One page summaries. One page summaries are fun.

Oh god, part of me dies when I have to omit important sections of the book but I know it is for the best.

It's twisted fun. One page summary of my thriller made it look like the most derivative, uninspired thing ever written. Then I realized I feel that way about most summaries, even for novels I loved from page one.
 

JaseMath

Member
I've often read that during re-reading ones own first draft, many authors find that their writing is much better following the first few chapters, but I'm wondering if the opposite is ever true.

For myself, I'm finding that, as I go along, my voice was stronger and more confident in the beginning only because I had a lot of early excitement for the project. Once the reality of the work ahead set in (at least for me), it's been hard to stay excited all these months later.

Has anyone dealt with the same thing? How did you overcome it?
 

Fidelis Hodie

Infidelis Cras
Well it's been a long time coming, but my first edit has been done on Derek Agons 2 (Derek Agons Tames A Dragon) and it's finally time to send to my editor, to readers, etc. I can't believe I'm actually here! 108k words (first book was about 80k) total, never thought I'd get there. Can't wait to write the rest.
 
I've often read that during re-reading ones own first draft, many authors find that their writing is much better following the first few chapters, but I'm wondering if the opposite is ever true.

For myself, I'm finding that, as I go along, my voice was stronger and more confident in the beginning only because I had a lot of early excitement for the project. Once the reality of the work ahead set in (at least for me), it's been hard to stay excited all these months later.

Has anyone dealt with the same thing? How did you overcome it?

That's actually the reason many people start writing a novel and never finish. It doesn't affect the quality of your writing, though. Maybe the story is more exciting and fresh at the start and you haven't thought through everything, so the story comes to a dull point where you can't think of what next to write.

You might want to consider outlining your novel so you know where it goes. Try to have more twists or inciting events that lead to each other. And save the best part for last. Good endings aren't as common as you'd think.
 

JaseMath

Member
That's actually the reason many people start writing a novel and never finish. It doesn't affect the quality of your writing, though. Maybe the story is more exciting and fresh at the start and you haven't thought through everything, so the story comes to a dull point where you can't think of what next to write.

You might want to consider outlining your novel so you know where it goes. Try to have more twists or inciting events that lead to each other. And save the best part for last. Good endings aren't as common as you'd think.

I was just asking—I have no intention of stopping and I'm certainly not starved for ideas. My biggest enemy is time. I work full-time and have a 1-year old. Between that and everything else, it's a challenge sometimes.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
I was just asking—I have no intention of stopping and I'm certainly not starved for ideas. My biggest enemy is time. I work full-time and have a 1-year old. Between that and everything else, it's a challenge sometimes.

Then take it slow. There's no rush other than what you put on yourself. As to your previous question, yes, I think that's not an uncommon problem. It makes sense, doesn't it? You can start off inspired but you can't stay that way. Not through an entire project. Similarly, just by the sheer practice of writing, the quality of said writing is bound to increase as you go on. That's where editing comes in, as you smooth everything out to a consistent quality.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
D) You're part of the 3% of writers who started and actually finished a novel.

How remarkable is that? It might be complete rubbish, but no matter what happens in your life from here on, you'll always be able to say you wrote a novel. Congrats!
A little late here, but thanks for the kind words!

Welcome to the club. Lemme buy you a drink
Ha, I'm sure it's a natural feeling to have, but it doesn't make it any less frightening.

Going to try to finish said second draft today. I've been putting it off...

Process is as planned:

Draft one: Get ideas on paper
Draft two: Fix plot holes, typos, spice up phrasing, sprinkle dialogue here, cut dialogue there
Draft three: Add a few chapters that the story kind of needs

Hopefully that'll be it. Then it's time to try and get it published.
 
Good ol form rejection letter from Tor. Not that I'm surprised, but I'm still disappointed. Got two more waiting to hear back from, but I'm not expecting any good news from Baen. My book doesn't really fit their MO for fantasy; I just sent it to them anyways because why not?
 

Coreda

Member
Probably not the right thread to ask but are there some alternatives to the word 'hope' in general usage?

In a context such as 'I hope they push a patch for this bug soon' I'd prefer to use a word that isn't also associated with doubt/uncertainty/things that are unnecessary as 'hope' sometimes is. Looking for a word that's polite but actually expectant and states a desire to have something happen.

Using 'I wish...' can sound whiney or childish, while 'I would like...' demanding. Often end up phrasing it like 'It would be nice/great/useful if...' but that doesn't necessarily sound expectant, either.
 
Probably not the right thread to ask but are there some alternatives to the word 'hope' in general usage?

In a context such as 'I hope they push a patch for this bug soon' I'd prefer to use a word that isn't also associated with doubt/uncertainty/things that are unnecessary as 'hope' sometimes is. Looking for a word that's polite but actually expectant and states a desire to have something happen.

Using 'I wish...' can sound whiney or childish, while 'I would like...' demanding. Often end up phrasing it like 'It would be nice/great/useful if...' but that doesn't necessarily sound expectant, either.

Depends on your character, I think. Any of those turns are viable if that's the kind of character you're putting to the page. I strive to have my characters somewhat active or expentant. "They better patch this bug soon" has an urgency some of the other versions don't.
 

Ashes

Banned
Probably not the right thread to ask but are there some alternatives to the word 'hope' in general usage?

In a context such as 'I hope they push a patch for this bug soon' I'd prefer to use a word that isn't also associated with doubt/uncertainty/things that are unnecessary as 'hope' sometimes is. Looking for a word that's polite but actually expectant and states a desire to have something happen.

Using 'I wish...' can sound whiney or childish, while 'I would like...' demanding. Often end up phrasing it like 'It would be nice/great/useful if...' but that doesn't necessarily sound expectant, either.

I think those inferences are particular to some folks and not to others.
 
Probably not the right thread to ask but are there some alternatives to the word 'hope' in general usage?

In a context such as 'I hope they push a patch for this bug soon' I'd prefer to use a word that isn't also associated with doubt/uncertainty/things that are unnecessary as 'hope' sometimes is. Looking for a word that's polite but actually expectant and states a desire to have something happen.

Using 'I wish...' can sound whiney or childish, while 'I would like...' demanding. Often end up phrasing it like 'It would be nice/great/useful if...' but that doesn't necessarily sound expectant, either.

Well, you can go straight to "expect" : "I expect they'll push a patch for this bug soon."

Or you could add a smidge of doubt with "suspect" which also has a bit of a Southern feel to it: "I suspect they'll push a patch for this bug soon."

Or you could go full on cowboy mode with "reckon" : "I reckon they'll push a patch for blasted bug soon!"

Or a bit nerdy with "anticipate" : "I anticipate they'll push a patch for this bug soon."

Some of those cross the line from being hopeful or wishful to being expectant (especially "expect" obviously).
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
I had the weirdest moment with a rejection letter today. It was personal, and they said I had good ideas but that it was too long and felt like it didn't go anywhere, and that the end didn't have an emotional punch. And... it was weird? This is a short story I've been floating around since 2013, when i wrote it for a creative writing class. My teacher loved it, and was utterly floored by it, and it was probably the first piece of positive reinforcement I've ever gotten in my life. Her kind words meant the world to me. Told me to publish it, and now after it's dozenth rejection, I can't help but think I've gotten so much better, and that I should just retire the piece. I wonder what she would say about my writing now, would she say Ive gotten better or moved away from all the things she loved?
 
I had the weirdest moment with a rejection letter today. It was personal, and they said I had good ideas but that it was too long and felt like it didn't go anywhere, and that the end didn't have an emotional punch. And... it was weird? This is a short story I've been floating around since 2013, when i wrote it for a creative writing class. My teacher loved it, and was utterly floored by it, and it was probably the first piece of positive reinforcement I've ever gotten in my life. Her kind words meant the world to me. Told me to publish it, and now after it's dozenth rejection, I can't help but think I've gotten so much better, and that I should just retire the piece. I wonder what she would say about my writing now, would she say Ive gotten better or moved away from all the things she loved?
Do you have a blog? Publish it there. There are millions of great stories that aren't published for one reason or another. Put it out there yourself.
 
Hey guys, I was trying to do the creative writing challenge "Desecration" sadly the story is now somewhere around 1200 words over the word limit of 2300. I just haven't figured out how to do the kind of stories I like to do in such a short span, I mean my shortest short story was like 4500 words.

Anyway, quoted from the challenge thread:

Allan Townshend had to get away, a tragic accident tore his loved ones away from him. He packs up his life and moves away to rural Bangor, Maine trying to find something worth living for. Inspired to move there by his wife's love of Stephen King novels.
In the rural mountains and forests of Bangor, Allan eventually finds a house, a turn of the century victorian style mansion with a rotunda living room, the outside is picture perfect, the inside suffers from halfway finished restorations. The most incredible thing however, is the price, and so Allan immediately bought his picture perfect house, however as time passes, he realizes that things are not as they seem.

Genre: Supernatural, Lovecraftian Horror, Drama

Edit: noticed a typo, when the character says 2 years old in reference to the car, it should be 12.
Here's dropbox link to what I have so far, comments critique etc, this is the first rough draft and I am still writing out the story.
 
I had the weirdest moment with a rejection letter today. It was personal, and they said I had good ideas but that it was too long and felt like it didn't go anywhere, and that the end didn't have an emotional punch. And... it was weird? This is a short story I've been floating around since 2013, when i wrote it for a creative writing class. My teacher loved it, and was utterly floored by it, and it was probably the first piece of positive reinforcement I've ever gotten in my life. Her kind words meant the world to me. Told me to publish it, and now after it's dozenth rejection, I can't help but think I've gotten so much better, and that I should just retire the piece. I wonder what she would say about my writing now, would she say Ive gotten better or moved away from all the things she loved?

Odds are the story is still darn good, but it might need a bit more pruning and tweaking still. If I were you, I'd go two ways with the story. 1) work on it now and then send it out again or 2) sit on it for a few months, then look at it again.

Honestly, I'd go with 1 because you never know who the editor is, or what mood they are in. Sometimes the same editor can see the same piece; snuff it the first time and pick it the second. Half of publishing is luck and determination.

That you got a personal rejection means the story is worth pursuing, imo.

I'd personally avoid the personal blog posting though . . . if you got a personal rejection, that means you were darn close.
 
So I'm nearing the end to draft five. Kind of at it really. Went through it again at two chapters per night just kinda speed reading and fixing typos. Made a handful of little changes and am now 200 words shorter. So nothing huge. Did end up fixing this one area that had been bugging me since draft two, so that's nice.

I still have some minor doubts about the book as a whole, but at least the first three chapters don't piss me off. Writing has been improved so it's less flat sounding, but I could still find error after error if I wanted to. I'm really full of self doubt right now for some reason. or all the time.

I am having a writing friend check it out. He's slow as hell but sent me back the first four chapters with some comments, most of which I ignored. The few I didn't were good changes though! And it's nice to know he's enjoying the story and has little to no problems with the writing other than some sentences he just didn't like (which I'm fine with for some reason)

There IS some validation there, that he isn't telling me I suck eggs.

I'm going to try and throw a one-page plot summary together within the next five days and I guess by teh end of the month, be ready to send this to publishing houses and agents. HOpefully ti does better than the first book.
 
Going for the emerging writer award again and since I got all my stuff done from last time I don't have to worry about the submissions closing before I can apply.
 
Summer has not been good for my writing output. I've been reading more . . . but I've found it difficult to sit down and just write without the pressure of due dates over my head. I'm trying to block out a couple hours every day for the rest of the summer. Hopefully it goes well.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Summer has not been good for my writing output. I've been reading more . . . but I've found it difficult to sit down and just write without the pressure of due dates over my head. I'm trying to block out a couple hours every day for the rest of the summer. Hopefully it goes well.

I've been feeling the same way :/

Maybe because I've not been in a good mental space lately, but I feel like I should be doing a lot more. So I do what I usually do when i feel mentally and spiritually blocked, I clean my room/apartment/desk area. I dunno, I find cleaning my living space always seems to clear my headspace and makes just life easier.
 

JaseMath

Member
Summer has not been good for my writing output. I've been reading more . . . but I've found it difficult to sit down and just write without the pressure of due dates over my head. I'm trying to block out a couple hours every day for the rest of the summer. Hopefully it goes well.
The moment I started paying attention to video games again, my productivity spiraled. I swore that I would give them up until my first draft was finished.
 
I'm down to critique if anybody needs feedback.

I wish I had something for you to critique, but I haven't been shit in the writing department since I had pursued my bachelor's. Before I used to write all the time when I was at home. Now I can only seem to write if I'm out of the house.
 
I've been feeling the same way :/

Maybe because I've not been in a good mental space lately, but I feel like I should be doing a lot more. So I do what I usually do when i feel mentally and spiritually blocked, I clean my room/apartment/desk area. I dunno, I find cleaning my living space always seems to clear my headspace and makes just life easier.

I definitely need to take some time and just relax and clean. Without a podcast playing--I keep putting them one when I'm not doing anything else and while some of them can spark inspiration, the silly ones (The Dollop and The Adventure Zone) definitely don't help lol.



The moment I started paying attention to video games again, my productivity spiraled. I swore that I would give them up until my first draft was finished.

Yeah . . . Overwatch is a problem.
 

Syncytia

Member
I can't figure out a name I like for the main character of a story I'm working on and it's destroying me. It's written from the characters point of view, female, science fiction. I'm 3500 words in and need a name now. I've browsed any number of name lists and just can't find anything I like.

Any suggestions how to get over this? I know I should just keep going but it's bothering me so much. I might just name her Lindsey Bluth and ctrl+f replace when I figure it out.
 
I can't figure out a name I like for the main character of a story I'm working on and it's destroying me. It's written from the characters point of view, female, science fiction. I'm 3500 words in and need a name now. I've browsed any number of name lists and just can't find anything I like.

Any suggestions how to get over this? I know I should just keep going but it's bothering me so much. I might just name her Lindsey Bluth and ctrl+f replace when I figure it out.

How science fiction is the book? Does everyone else have typical names? If so, name her something that sounds good to you--something short-ish so the page doesn't get cluttered with syllables when people use her name. (Lindsey is as good as anything else, imo).

Granted, I usually write my first draft of my stories using the same names all the time. lol
 

cloudwalking

300chf ain't shit to me
I can't figure out a name I like for the main character of a story I'm working on and it's destroying me. It's written from the characters point of view, female, science fiction. I'm 3500 words in and need a name now. I've browsed any number of name lists and just can't find anything I like.

Any suggestions how to get over this? I know I should just keep going but it's bothering me so much. I might just name her Lindsey Bluth and ctrl+f replace when I figure it out.

If you have a deuteragonist, a love interest, a foil, or an antagonist with a name already set in stone, you could try to find a name that plays off of one of them.

I did this for my female MC in my science fiction WIP. I looked for a name that is a non-obvious opposite to the love interest's name, which I'd already set in stone. The meaning of her name has to do with the earth, and his with the sun.

And I agree with Nappuccino. I like short, simple names that are easy to remember. Be careful that you still make the names different enough, though. I realized about 10k words in that I had a penchant for giving all of my male characters two-syllable names that end with the letter N... lol. Had to change a couple of those later on.
 

Syncytia

Member
Yeah I have a love interest and antagonist name set in stone. Trying to play off the love interest name is what I'm looking for, but his name starts with an A and it seems everything I like for her starts with an A as well.

And definitely something short, roll of the tongue 3 syllables max. Love interest is a quick 3 syllable and the antagonist is a two syllable.

Other characters don't have typical names, which is making it more difficult, but I'm also not going crazy with weird names. The problem is maybe how much I've narrowed down what I want. Maybe I should've named her before other characters.
 

cloudwalking

300chf ain't shit to me
Yeah I have a love interest and antagonist name set in stone. Trying to play off the love interest name is what I'm looking for, but his name starts with an A and it seems everything I like for her starts with an A as well.

And definitely something short, roll of the tongue 3 syllables max. Love interest is a quick 3 syllable and the antagonist is a two syllable.

Other characters don't have typical names, which is making it more difficult, but I'm also not going crazy with weird names. The problem is maybe how much I've narrowed down what I want. Maybe I should've named her before other characters.

That's funny, my love interest's name starts with an A too :D Are we writing the same book?

On this page, http://nameberry.com/search/advanced, you can search by meaning... maybe that would be something you could try?

I actually had the most trouble with surnames... found them much harder to choose than the first names.
 
So...one page plot summaries: is that a single-spaced page or a double-spaced page? I don't know if I"ve ever gotten a good answer on that.

Are you talking about a synopsis? If it fits on one page single-spaced, then yes one page. If not, double-spaced. That's what I've been seeing from quite a few agencies.
 
Are you talking about a synopsis? If it fits on one page single-spaced, then yes one page. If not, double-spaced. That's what I've been seeing from quite a few agencies.
Yeah. Most agents/publishers are kind enough to let me go three pages, but some want a "one page plot summary" or what have you. Never know exactly how big that is though. I mean, should be easy to fit it into one single spaced page, but if it has to be double-spaced? Now that's a jigsaw puzzle.
 

JaseMath

Member
There's a lot of extraneous information and it confuses the way you're presenting the story. Apart from your numerous grammatical errors, if a summary is indicative of what I can expect from the novel, I'm lost and frustrated and there's no way I'd read it. It needs to be streamlined.
 
It is difficult to tell who the main character of your novel is. In the first major sentence, I think Hylerai, but really it seems to be her sister who does most of the work. I might rewrite the pitch as if Daphnae is the focus: "Daphnae witnessed her sister get dragged into a black van by three men." The bit about the Zodiac is where I really get lost. Maybe just tell us that her sister is a long-lost element of the zodaic and why that's important: we don't need to be reminded of all the traditional ones.
 
So I finally got me a form rejection from Baen. I'm not really broken up over that one though; I knew they wouldn't take it. Plus...I really have zero respect for that publishing house. I mean, I'd take their money, but then my book would have such a shitty font on its cover!

Regardless: one of the smaller publishing houses is very interested in my manuscript, which is kind of a first as far as publishing houses go. I imagine my reply to that is the same as it would be for an agent though: a brief hello and thanks, and then a recopy of the cover letter so they know who I am.

I worry a bit that this house is...well, one of those "WE CAN PUT IT ON AMAZON FOR YOU" kinds of things, which I can do myself, but there's a kind of validation here. Also, I know an author who has published through them and he's happy. His book was pretty alright.
 
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