-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Were Framerate issues/FPS/GraphicsVHardware debates discussed in the Atari/NES era?
- Thread starter DoktorEvil
- Start date
Anyway as a 4th and 5th grader I could see the differences between PS and N64. GT was always impressive to me then, but I think playing Pokemon stadium was maybe slightly more so. Looked damn good. Then again late PS games looked amazing, ff8 to my mind. anhow there was always dicourse
To quote from that archive of old posts. Man, this sounds like cell ps3 defense lolol... it sounds too familiar
To quote from that archive of old posts. Man, this sounds like cell ps3 defense lolol... it sounds too familiar
7DollarHagane
Banned
The slowdown in early SNES games like gradius 3 was a big deal among people very involved in the hobby.
Genesis was seen as a "faster" system because it had shooters that played faster.
I remember magazines making a big deal about the SNES CPU being underpowered compared to genesis, even if the games looked better.
With nes I remember egm complaining about sprite flicker on late life titles.
And frame rates were a concern in the ps1 and n64 era. And magazines talked about how poor the draw distance was on Daytona for Saturn and how the machine wasn't as good at 3d.
The blurry textures and bad sound on the n64 was also discussed back then too.
Genesis was seen as a "faster" system because it had shooters that played faster.
I remember magazines making a big deal about the SNES CPU being underpowered compared to genesis, even if the games looked better.
With nes I remember egm complaining about sprite flicker on late life titles.
And frame rates were a concern in the ps1 and n64 era. And magazines talked about how poor the draw distance was on Daytona for Saturn and how the machine wasn't as good at 3d.
The blurry textures and bad sound on the n64 was also discussed back then too.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
This. Slowdown was so hype back in the day. It meant you were kicking ass (or getting your ass kicked).
The technical coping mechanics nowadays "framedropping" is not as hype.
JordanN
Banned
AVGN has a home video of himself as a child and he talks about Genesis vs SNES graphics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fb73kHBAirU#t=62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fb73kHBAirU#t=62
I distinctly remember some games slowing down so much, I could go to my bathroom, wash my hands and when I returned, the screen was still being rendered. The games that ran well, did so wonderfully, but let's not act like everything was a glorious 160p/60fps.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Yup Mighty Final Fight, Contra(the one that was played from Top-down view along with a final mission played out in classic side scroll), Double Dragon games, SuperSpyHunter had crazy slow downs when action started to get intense along with screen tearing, etc
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Yes. The downgrades of Neo Geo or CPS-2 games were huge on SNES.
Considering the framerate complaints of sonic, this is really funny.
If you want to see bad frame rates, play Gradius 3 or super r-type.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Sure. But I still managed to enjoy 3d Amiga games that ran at 10FPS.
It's not that funny, at that time only the NES was out. This blew 8bit away.
It's not that funny, at that time only the NES was out. This blew 8bit away.
neurosisxeno
Member
Well, they did a better job hiding it back then. I remember hearing about certain twin-stick shooters from that era that designed the game around the idea that at certain points it would slow down, so now when you play them emulated it's nearly impossible because everything moves too fast.
captainraincoat
Banned
Fps was not even thought about.....Each platform was different and had their own strengths and weaknesses
The spectrum port of a racer may of ran faster than the c64 version but had monochrome graphics. ...The power gap was huge between some platforms but you learned to respect each platform for what it could do
This is why it's so annoying to see thread whining if a game is 60fps or 1080p
The spectrum port of a racer may of ran faster than the c64 version but had monochrome graphics. ...The power gap was huge between some platforms but you learned to respect each platform for what it could do
This is why it's so annoying to see thread whining if a game is 60fps or 1080p
Framerate issues were absolutely present on top of awful controls.
The war between the Amiga and Atari ST was pretty hardcore, Genesis and Snes fans were at each other throats, fun times.
Only difference, no internet.
Only revisionists and people who know nothing about the period would tell you that it was a locked 60FPS heaven in a happy united gamer family.
The war between the Amiga and Atari ST was pretty hardcore, Genesis and Snes fans were at each other throats, fun times.
Only difference, no internet.
Only revisionists and people who know nothing about the period would tell you that it was a locked 60FPS heaven in a happy united gamer family.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
What is there to respect about a game running at a lower resolution or framerate (or whatever else)?
Poimandres
Member
People were very much concerned with graphics/presentation in the NES days. It was all about how close games were to the best the arcade had to offer... that was usually the best barometer for power. Fast forward a little and by the time the SNES port of Doom was released PC users were chuckling at the low frame rate. Gaming has always been a very visual medium.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Back then it was all about who had the most "Bits" and who could make their games look the most like an Arcade game.
captainraincoat
Banned
U missed the point about each platform was different and had their own strengths
I lost count of the amount of ports that ran and played better due to different design choices on platforms
KojiKnight
Member
It always amuses me when someone who was a kid for the earlier generations thinks that meant there weren't in-depth technical discussions about video games and their hardware.
If you go back 50 years, you'll still have heard people talking about the same or similar politics and such for elections as well. It's part of what makes us human.
If you go back 50 years, you'll still have heard people talking about the same or similar politics and such for elections as well. It's part of what makes us human.
Brerlappin
Member
Pretty much, games were just 'good' or 'bad'. I dont think i ever once argued the tech specs of my Atari ST vs an Amiga. Arguments boiled down to "Well the Amiga has better graphics", or "The ST has better music" or whatever. Noone ever mentioned framerate once, but having recently replayed tripe like the ST version of SF2, yes, framerate was something we probably shouldve been concerned with lol
IAmRandom31
Banned
Yeah me and my 5-7 year old friends sat around and tried to do frame counting back in the day.
Blast processing was king.
Blast processing was king.
The Spoony Hou
Member
Whipped Spartan
Member
People knew about slow down. No one talked about fps or resolution.
DoktorEvil
Banned
What I remember was that the consumer didn't talk about those things. Video games were "children's toys".
I find it so interesting that the arguments then for console warriors are nearly the same ones used for last gen and current gen.
It's a never ending circle.
Mugatu
Member
Well of course there were always technical discussions - I'm sure if you went back to caveman times certain individuals who discussed the finer points of making arrow heads quite in depth.
Honestly though, I don't think it really amuses anyone when comments like this are made with the less than subtle undertone of implying that everyone else naive and stupid. Sorry but this just really got under my skin.
Bill Rizer
Member
Framerate? Games were 60fps back then.
Slowdowns were obviously picked in reviews (e.g. in shoot'em ups when were many bullets on screen).
Slowdowns were obviously picked in reviews (e.g. in shoot'em ups when were many bullets on screen).
KojiKnight
Member
None intended, but thanks for being pretentious with your assumptions
My point is that every generation seems to think that their's is the special one for whatever the current big topic of discussion is. Pick up a history book and you can see it played out time and time again. To many people it's inconceivable to them that in their youth or in the generation prior to their's that people had discussions on the same topics and same depths as they do today (this is partially the older generations fault for talking about the past as if it's rose colored and that everything was 'simpler' then when it really wasn't).
DoktorEvil
Banned
Source?
Bill Rizer
Member
Source? It's a matter of fact, what's to debate?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Your opinion isn't fact. You are the second person to state this as fact.
I'd like a source confirming that fact.
toddhunter
Member
Not in PAL land.
But yes, in general I remember technical discussions being just as fierce as they are today, even if the emphasis was different. If it wasn't resolution, it was something like the NES and SMS comparing colour pallets. You also couldn't even hide behind a forum post, it was all done in person and punches were thrown.
Magazines mentioned it sometimes, but as for users, to the majority it was more "that's how it is, deal with it".
Back then, technology didn't evolve anywhere near as rapidly as now, so you didn't just think "Oh, it'll be fixed in the new version or patch or console" or whatever.
That's how I remember it anyway.
Back then, technology didn't evolve anywhere near as rapidly as now, so you didn't just think "Oh, it'll be fixed in the new version or patch or console" or whatever.
That's how I remember it anyway.
It's not an opinion. Nearly every game was 60fps, it was the standard. Very few games on the SNES were 30fps, like Joe and Mac, Super Double Dragon and Top Gear. I can't think of any on the NES at the moment.
PAL gamers were of course screwed with 50fps and 25fps.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Is there no periodicals or online articles discussing this from the 8 bit & 16 bit era?
The flashing sprites / slowdown on the NES discussions were real. I remember schoolyard talks about games where people would ask if the game had those issues. Games without those problems were seen as better.
I also had this book growing up (I'm sure other gaffers had it) that contained like 50-70+ reviews of all the games of the time, some small previews of upcoming games in beta states, reviews of controllers and various periphericals, and even the guy writing the book would mention the slowdown or flashing sprite problems.
But those issues plagued the first few 'waves' of NES titles.. and yeah people talked about them.
For the 16-bit generation, people would always talk about how fast the genesis was and how it would get the best arcade games but that the sound chip was "scratchy" and that the graphics were 'chunky' compared to the snes version. The 'genesis is faster' thing is obviously due to the marketing sega was doing at the time with Sonic. There were no snes games that had similar super fast running at the time but that's just gameplay design. The genesis was always seen as the rebellious console for 'tough' kids, while the snes was more mainstream. This was even more in the mind of kids when Mortal Kombat was released. The genesis version had the arcade speed, controls and blood, while snes had the graphics, better music than the arcade but the gameplay felt a bit different than there was no blood.
For about a year, the genesis was on top of the world... Then Mortal Kombat 2 came out, and the terrible mk2 port showed that the snes was simply superior; MK2 SNES was the best port of the game excluding pc (that came out a bit later?) until, I KID YOU NOT, MK2 on the ps3
The cpu was slower but except for very early SNES games (like Final Fight); I don't remember games with dramatic issues.
People described framerate problems as the game being "choppy". The lack of colors on the sega genesis (especially on the segacd) was
I also had this book growing up (I'm sure other gaffers had it) that contained like 50-70+ reviews of all the games of the time, some small previews of upcoming games in beta states, reviews of controllers and various periphericals, and even the guy writing the book would mention the slowdown or flashing sprite problems.
But those issues plagued the first few 'waves' of NES titles.. and yeah people talked about them.
For the 16-bit generation, people would always talk about how fast the genesis was and how it would get the best arcade games but that the sound chip was "scratchy" and that the graphics were 'chunky' compared to the snes version. The 'genesis is faster' thing is obviously due to the marketing sega was doing at the time with Sonic. There were no snes games that had similar super fast running at the time but that's just gameplay design. The genesis was always seen as the rebellious console for 'tough' kids, while the snes was more mainstream. This was even more in the mind of kids when Mortal Kombat was released. The genesis version had the arcade speed, controls and blood, while snes had the graphics, better music than the arcade but the gameplay felt a bit different than there was no blood.
For about a year, the genesis was on top of the world... Then Mortal Kombat 2 came out, and the terrible mk2 port showed that the snes was simply superior; MK2 SNES was the best port of the game excluding pc (that came out a bit later?) until, I KID YOU NOT, MK2 on the ps3
The cpu was slower but except for very early SNES games (like Final Fight); I don't remember games with dramatic issues.
People described framerate problems as the game being "choppy". The lack of colors on the sega genesis (especially on the segacd) was
Victor Omega
Member
Wasnt there a a PAL/NTCS 30/60hz debate were games in certain region ran better back then and people had to import game just to get the "definitive" version?
The system wars were dedicated to nebulous speed claims from Sega(which were true since the Genesis had a faster CPU) and on the Nintendo side it was the increased color palette of the SNES, which was also true.
Framerates weren't really discussed unless a game suffered from framedrops, which were known and perceived as "slowdown" or "slow motion" back then.
You can see what an NES game running at 30fps would look like:
https://archive.org/details/Mariofps
DoktorEvil
Banned
I own a kart of SMB3. My footage looks more like the 30 FPS than the 60 FPS.
I'm just surprised things like post-mortems or design docs didn't exist in those times, nor was there any discussions over region locking.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
It was even still a problem in the PS2 era like CVS 2. However Dreamcast introduced a 50/60Hz switch.
Absolutely not.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Yeah, I missed the point to "This is why it's so annoying to see thread whining if a game is 60fps or 1080p".
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'll double check but I'm pretty sure of it.
It could also be my console or my cables. Does it matter if its a Top loader?
On my Game Boy, there was a lot of slowdowns, even in big games like Super Mario Land 2. But I enjoyed it anyway, thinking that the game was as good as it was power demanding.
But seriously, back in the days there was no way for developers to update their games, so people just dealt with the product they had I guess.
But seriously, back in the days there was no way for developers to update their games, so people just dealt with the product they had I guess.
Baron_Calamity
Member
I've been online since the early 80s. (I'm old!) I never remember such a debate on consoles though we did debate such had more colors and less screen flicker.
Computers on the other had, that did come up with flight sims. People were overclocking CPUs and messing with graphics adapters on the apple 2 and early IBMs to get frame rates close to real time as possible
Computers on the other had, that did come up with flight sims. People were overclocking CPUs and messing with graphics adapters on the apple 2 and early IBMs to get frame rates close to real time as possible
PAL ran at 50 Hz and NTSC at 60 Hz. But that was true of all television content, not just games.
Similar threads
- Locked