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An Assassin's Creed set in feudal Japan would feel over-familiar, says AC3 director

jem0208

Member
Um, wtf are you talking about?
Native American who also spoke authentically
hp-topslot_AC3-cgi-trailertcm2153795.jpg


Series started with an Arab
2287196-altair.jpg
AC4 had a bloody Welshman as the main character.


If that isn't a minority I don't know what is!



More seriously, the Assassins Creed series has always been pretty good in this regard. The complaints against it are pretty unfounded IMO.
 

JP

Member
Isn't one of the points of annual franchises like this that they do feel "over familiar", that there's no major changes and peole that have played the earlier games can just fit right in with the newer game?
 

Ennosuke

Member
The setting would be something new and fresh for the series. Its not like there were 100 of good games in this setting before. Besides the Nazi Germany Setting this is something I would be really hyped for. But yes I get it, you are Ubisoft.
 

Alfredo

Member
I always admired this philosophy of the Assassin's Creed series... But then they went and did a freakin pirate game.
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
The setting would be something new and fresh for the series. Its not like there were 100 of good games in this setting before. Besides the Nazi Germany Setting this is something I would be really hyped for. But yes I get it, you are Ubisoft.

Considering their excuses about why they won't make a female assassin as an option to play, this just seems to be the default reason for why they don't do things that their fans want: because they're Ubisoft.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
More than anything, I just wish they stopped making AC games and moved on to a new IP.
Just this year they are released four new ips. Why do people keep forgetting that Ubisoft is the largest gaming company in the world and pump out tons of new stuff each year while also trying new things. It's very selfish to want them to stop supporting their biggest IP.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Considering their excuses about why they won't make a female assassin as an option to play, this just seems to be the default reason for why they don't do things that their fans want: because they're Ubisoft.
Having only one playable character is not an excuse. You would never see yourself as any other character other than the main character unless they were directly blood related. People should really stop bringing this up when criticizing a series that's known for it's inclusion and diversity. We've never been able to switch genders before n the series' story mode because we're supposed to be playing as "actual" people.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Yeah, AC3 had a American Indian on the cover and he was the protagonist.

But hes also the most wry and dry protag in the series, dude had little to no personality. He reminded me of a T-800 from the Terminator series.
Did you understand why he became that way, though?
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
Having only one playable character is not an excuse. You would never see yourself as any other character other than the main character unless they were directly blood related. People should really stop bringing this up when criticizing a series that's known for it's inclusion and diversity. We've never been able to switch genders before n the series' story mode because we're supposed to be playing as "actual" people.

So during AC3 and AC4 we basically played through the family set of the grandfather, father, and son of one family, but having a playable mother or daughter is out of the question? That's beyond weak.

Also, I'd like to believe you've just horrendously worded that last sentence than to think you've actually just implied that women are not actual people.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The problem is that ubi have a lot of ip with unbelievable potential that they squander by rehashing the same tired, soulless mechanics again and again. How good could assassin's creed be if they actually designed a fun game around, yknow, being an assassin instead of boring tailing/fetch quests and the occasional mass murder. Imagine combining the free running of assassin's creed with the open ended approach to assassinations from the early hitman games and the combat of the Arkham games. Imagine having the choice between barging in the front door and killing everything in sight
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Guys, for the love of god, read the news about Unity's gameplay changes.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
So during AC3 and AC4 we basically played through the family set of the grandfather, father, and son of one family, but having a playable mother or daughter is out of the question? That's beyond weak.

Also, I'd like to believe you've just horrendously worded that last sentence than to think you've actually just implied that women are not actual people.
Zio, Tessa, and Edward's mother weren't assassins. And wtf, no, I wasn't implying that women weren't actual people nor would I ever imply that. We're supposed to be playing as actual people who existed, as in historical figures, which means that the narrative for a character has to be locked down, including their gender. So it wouldn't make sense to include an option to switch genders to a female Ezio or a male Aveline. So basically it's like complaining that you can't play as a female Nathan Drake during the story mode of Uncharted.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Honestly, I think modern Japan would be much more interesting for an AC game. Or Singapore, Hong Kong, Seoul... any of those brightly lit cities.
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
Zio, Tessa, and Edward's mother weren't assassins. And wtf, no, I wasn't implying that women weren't actual people nor would I ever imply that. We're supposed to be playing as actual people who existed, as in historical figures, which means that the narrative for a character has to be locked down, including their gender. So it wouldn't make sense to include an option to switch genders to a female Ezio or a male Aveline.

But there's no reason why a future game cannot have a female who is an assassin. The NPC recruits allowed females so the creed isn't against female assassins. Also, to keep in the "they have to be actual people" then can't there be a game with a brother sister assassin duo or something similar, and you'd just choose who to have as the "main" player. They could keep the other unused character as to be summoned like one of the recruits from those continuations from AC2, so that "both" characters were there and it'd mean that they wouldn't have to alter the story depending on who was chosen.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
But there's no reason why a future game cannot have a female who is an assassin. The NPC recruits allowed females so the creed isn't against female assassins.
And who said that a future game won't have a female assassin? Heck we're getting one later this year with Unity's season pass. For all we know 2015's full heavily marketed 3D AC will have a female protagonist instead of a male one. And i'd prefer one fully robust story mode with a fully fleshed out main character, creating two of those would be incredibly difficult. And then every single game would have to have a brother sister plot to keep that up, and just no. I don't agree with the idea that there should be a brother sister plot device in order to allow a female playable character, if they make one, I want it done right, as in a full story with a female character, like Aveline. But in the case of Unity, we always play as this fella.
468px-Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_2.43.59_PM.png


Even if there were female variants of Arno, you would never see yourself, as you always see yourself as him, the only way you'd know is if someone saw you in co-op and saw that your version of Arno looks like a female in their game. That's how Unity's co-op works.
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
And who said that a future game won't have a female assassin?

I don't think it's happening in the near future. Ubi themselves have never answered the "why can't we play a female assassin" quite well. I remember one talk with them had them pretty much say it was too much graphical work because they don't have the bases for it already. Which tells me that they're clearly not planning on one for a recent future if they're giving us reasons for why it's not happening as opposed to not saying anything and letting their fanbase be wowed by when that one day comes where they have a game with a female assassin as the main character.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I don't think it's happening in the near future. Ubi themselves have never answered the "why can't we play a female assassin" quite well. I remember one talk with them had them pretty much say it was too much graphical work because they don't have the bases for it already. Which tells me that they're clearly not planning on one for a recent future if they're giving us reasons for why it's not happening as opposed to not saying anything and letting their fanbase be wowed by when that one day comes where they have a game with a female assassin as the main character.
Yes they have. They said that we can't play as anyone but the main character. And they're right, in the lore we actually can't play as anyone but the current subject unless they're directly blood related. We're reading DNA after all. That's been true for all AC games. And they were talking specifically about Unity in that interview, not future AC games, they made Arno a male and designed him, his 9500 animations, and his tons of unique outfits with a male in mind. All of which would have to be reworked onto a female model that the player would never directly see at any point. Doing that, as in reworking all of those things that I repeat the player would never on top of making sure that all the new systems that the player can directly see, like the huge scale of Paris not having massive frame drops, is a bit much. I'm glad that they decided not to half ass it.
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
Yes they have. They said that we can't play as anyone but the main character. And they're right, in the lore we actually can't play as anyone but the current subject unless they're directly blood related. We're reading DNA after all. That's been true for all AC games. And they were talking specifically about Unity in that interview, not future AC games, they made Arno a male and designed him, his 9500 animations, and his tons of unique outfits with a male in mind. All of which would have to be reworked onto a female model that the player would never directly see at any point. Doing that, as in reworking all of those things that I repeat the player would never on top of making sure that all the new systems that the player can directly see, like the huge scale of Paris not having massive frame drops, is a bit much. I'm glad that they decided not to half ass it.

I wouldn't call it answering it well when people who had worked in their graphics department for the previous assassin games refute the claim of it being too much work. If the people who are doing the grunt work here for creating these animations are saying something different from the PR, why would I be believing PR's reasoning? If the graphics team is saying that's not the reason, then I'm going to be believing them because they clearly know what they're talking about as they make the graphics.
 
I'm not sure if I agree with him or not, but they could definitely make the setting interesting if it's done properly. Honestly, how many games really get a western release that take place in that setting? And how many of those are good? I can honestly only think of Samurai Warriors, Tenchu/Shinobido and Muramasa off the top of my head, and both are very fantastical. There is also Yakuza, but they series is obviously dead and buried over here. I expect there are a few, but I'd love a game to give us a decent representation of Feudal Japan and explore the dynamic between the Samurai and Ninja, and the emperor and various lords.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I wouldn't call it answering it well when people who had worked in their graphics department for the previous assassin games refute the claim of it being too much work. If the people who are doing the grunt work here for creating these animations are saying something different from the PR, why would I be believing PR's reasoning? If the graphics team is saying that's not the reason, then I'm going to be believing them because they clearly know what they're talking about as they make the graphics.
The animation director of AC3 was working on a character with way less animations than Arno, and on a character that was way less customizable than Arno. So his opinion is not the most valid. The "graphics team" of Unity did not come out and say "no that's false." And please don't oversimplify game development, animators are not the same people who provide textures.
 
Somebody here on GAF suggested a long time ago having an Assassins Creed game take place in wartime Nazi Germany. Now Ass Creed usually bores the crap out of me for some strange reason that's beyond me.

But I would play the SHIT out of a Nazi Germany themed Assassins Creed game, fo' sho.

We got TINY glimpses of this in some out-of-animus collectibles, but I agree, that would be an awesome thing to see.
 

Stardust_Comet

Neo Member
The animation director of AC3 was working on a character with way less animations than Arno, and on a character that was way less customizable than Arno. So his opinion is not the most valid. The "graphics team" of Unity did not come out and say "no that's false." And please don't oversimplify game development, animators are not the same people who provide textures.

I would say an animator's opinion is more valid than someone in PR who's job is to say the bullshit that's needed to be said to keep the masses happy without directly giving real information away. And sure, Unity's head animator did not say it's false, but they also haven't said it's true either. We haven't really heard word from Unity's head animator about this (and of course, it'd be very stupid of them to say it was false that this would be too much work anyway because say enough bad things about the game you're working on and you could lose a job). But until we get proper confirmation of Unity's head animator on this decision, I would rather believe someone who is a professional animator give their honest opinion over whatever excuse PR comes up with when their job can include lying when necessary to cover up something that can cause a shitstorm.
 
As for where Hutchinson might take Assassin's Creed, were he back in charge of the franchise - the answer remains India during the British Raj (aka, the mid-19th to mid-20th century)

I'd be all for this.

But yes, for an AC director to talk about avoiding over-familiarity is a little bit pot, kettle, black.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I would say an animator's opinion is more valid than someone in PR who's job is to say the bullshit that's needed to be said to keep the masses happy without directly giving real information away. And sure, Unity's head animator did not say it's false, but they also haven't said it's true either. We haven't really heard word from Unity's head animator about this (and of course, it'd be very stupid of them to say it was false that this would be too much work anyway because say enough bad things about the game you're working on and you could lose a job). But until we get proper confirmation of Unity's head animator on this decision, I would rather believe someone who is a professional animator give their honest opinion over whatever excuse PR comes up with when their job can include lying when necessary to cover up something that can cause a shitstorm.
Alex Amancio isn't a PR rep, he's the creative director. And Unity's head director probably didn't come out and say anything because they weren't at e3 and were working on the game. The guilty until proven innocent nonsense is ridiculous when I just gave you a ton of explanations. And I myself am an animator, and I know how hard it is to work on 3D characters, let alone a character like Arno where the quality standard is extremely high.
 

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
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Guys, for the love of god, read the news about Unity's gameplay changes.

Hi Yves.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Pity you had to ignore most of it and hide behind the incremental improvements you're making with AC:Unity.

And while those long overdue improvements look good -and they are so overdue, it's not even funny- Unity still looks like the same old rehashes you've been putting out on a yearly basis rather than the massive overhaul you're proclaiming it to be. The same can be said for watch dogs and far cry 3 and looks to be true of the division and far cry 4. And frankly, I'm sick of it. As are many others. And while I have no doubt that your games will continue to sell well, I think you're playing with fire. Sooner or later, people are going to get fed up buying the same game every year... Hell, several times per year if they buy more than one of the AAA open world titles you put out.

And please understand, I say this as a person who comfortably ranked AC2 among their top ten of last generation... Maybe even top five. I'm not needlessly hating on the games because "lol, Ubisoft". I'm just frustrated at the potential being pissed away in pursuit of profits. And yes, while I understand that that's the way that every company works, I still believe you could continue to be massively profitable while making masterpieces, rather than uninspired rehashes. And is that not why many of your employees got into the industry? To make unbelievable games (which your company has the potential to do).

If you ever feel like listening to my ideas, my inbox is always open.
 
You can mine some good material and inspiration from the Meiji Restoration era, as opposed to the typical image of ninjas raining down shurikens on unsuspecting local tyrants. You can mine some material and inspiration from the era of transitional upheaval of China's Ming dynasty to its new Manchu Qing rulers, or look at China during the late nineteenth century as western powers are knocking its doors down, and as it's vainly attempting to self-strengthen. How about Russia? Pick any era in Russian history, from Peter the Great to I dunno, even having the civil war between the Bolsheviks and the Whites as a backdrop.

India would be brilliant. Assassin's Creed, if nothing else, inspires me to take up interest in reading up on the historical backdrops their games take place in. I know probably next to nothing about India under the British Raj. Yeah, I know. It shouldn't take an Assassin's Creed game to pique my interest in looking up a particular historical period, but here we go.

But I'm currently going through Ass Creed franchise fatigue, so they can take all the time they want. Just don't do another C18th Americas game again after Rogue.
 
I dont want one in china or japan becuase of the architectural style, and only very few known big buildings that for me is the core of AC. Thats one of the things I think AC3 fail big time at, and I dont give a fuck climbing mountains or random trees.

Thats why I loved the italy setting, and thats why I will love Paris during the revolution. I want to see also Victorian London, and I really dont mind if it has been repeated (more fantasy than anything) in games. As the one in AC would be more realistic and with plenty of monuments and historical figures, i would love it a ton.

Same with ancient egypt, would love because of the mythology. Although there, normal buildings would have the same problem as feudal japan or china.

Of course maybe if I was more interested in that era I would say the same as people who want them in AC, so i respect their opinions and can understand why they want them.

AssCreed in 1970s NYC

I would prefer 50's and 60's because the majority of historic locations where still there, but yeah, I understand how an AC set in New York would be amazing.
 

ExoSoul

Banned
IIRC a year or two ago they said it was a possibility, no they're saying it's too on the nose while making a french revolution AC?

ohokaysureyeah.gif
 
IIRC a year or two ago they said it was a possibility, no they're saying it's too on the nose while making a french revolution AC?

ohokaysureyeah.gif

Oh yeah, because there are so many games in Paris during the French revolution...

Come on, he is also not right about feudal japan being overly present, but you are also doing it wrong.
 

axb2013

Member
Isn't this the time for a gaffer to book a trip, board a plane and be seated next to a Ubisoft employee?

I wouldn't mind a different setting, Japan, China even Australia would work for me. Flexible on the timeline too but I would prefer a deeper AC game, Deus Ex like choices/actions/consequences, deeper and less rigid follow/eavesdrop missions.
 

Daft_Cat

Member
Shit ,I was all for it before, but he's right, AC is one of the only franchises that explore lesser known time periods, and I wouldn't want to lose that aspect.

Lesser known time periods? The Crusades, the Renaissance, the age of piracy, the French Revolution, and the American Revolution.

So far, all they've really covered is high school history 101. Maybe it's time for them to dip into some college level material.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Hi Yves.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Pity you had to ignore most of it and hide behind the incremental improvements you're making with AC:Unity.

And while those long overdue improvements look good -and they are so overdue, it's not even funny- Unity still looks like the same old rehashes you've been putting out on a yearly basis rather than the massive overhaul you're proclaiming it to be. The same can be said for watch dogs and far cry 3 and looks to be true of the division and far cry 4. And frankly, I'm sick of it. As are many others. And while I have no doubt that your games will continue to sell well, I think you're playing with fire. Sooner or later, people are going to get fed up buying the same game every year... Hell, several times per year if they buy more than one of the AAA open world titles you put out.

And please understand, I say this as a person who comfortably ranked AC2 among their top ten of last generation... Maybe even top five. I'm not needlessly hating on the games because "lol, Ubisoft". I'm just frustrated at the potential being pissed away in pursuit of profits. And yes, while I understand that that's the way that every company works, I still believe you could continue to be massively profitable while making masterpieces, rather than uninspired rehashes. And is that not why many of your employees got into the industry? To make unbelievable games (which your company has the potential to do).

If you ever feel like listening to my ideas, my inbox is always open.
It's an AC game, so obviously it's gonna play similarly to previous games. And regardless of whether they're overdue, the point is that saying "man if only they changed things" while ignoring and belittling the multitude of changes being made with the latest iteration can be quite irritating. When you're buying Unity you're not buying the same game as last year.
P.S.
I'm not actually Yves.
 
Just this year they are released four new ips. Why do people keep forgetting that Ubisoft is the largest gaming company in the world and pump out tons of new stuff each year while also trying new things. It's very selfish to want them to stop supporting their biggest IP.

1) I mean I want the AC development teams to work on something else, because their work on AC underwhelms me.

2) I don't care if it's selfish. We all have our opinions and different tastes. I'm not out of line at all by saying I wish Ubi put their money into something else, ideally something I'd actually want to play.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
1) I mean I want the AC development teams to work on something else, because their work on AC underwhelms me.

2) I don't care if it's selfish. We all have our opinions and different tastes. I'm not out of line at all by saying I wish Ubi put their money into something else, ideally something I'd actually want to play.
They do work on other things, the teams that work on AC don't just work on AC games.
 
I am not even really sure what people want anymore when they say that Unity is just a rehash. We are getting quicker traversal, a change to combat, and a stealth/crouch button....three of the most requested things for several years
 
Has there ever been a grand game that was set in feudal japan and took its history seriously (as seriously as assassin's creed does) ? I've never played one.

So no, it would not feel overly familiar to me. I want this game.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I am not even really sure what people want anymore when they say that Unity is just a rehash. We are getting quicker traversal, a change to combat, and a stealth/crouch button....three of the most requested things for several years
And much bigger environments, open ended mission design, more varied side quests. I feel like the people who complain so much would complain regardless. We still have people who think that murder sprees are possible despite gameplay that shows otherwise.
https://gfycat.com/CreepyGlamorousFoxterrier
 
Asian is a minority they cant bank on? Not even if it is half-colonist/half-asian? Would make for a great setting imho. Half japanese half british or dutch, something like Sword of the Stranger.
 
LMAO at the notion that "over familiarity" is even the slightest of concerns to Ubisoft. I don't think I could phrase my feelings towards the Assassins Creed series more perfectly.
I reckon a more likely reason for not setting a game in feudal Japan would be that the architecture of the period probably wouldn't lend itself too well to the tried and tested Assassins Creed formula, and would require developing too many new ideas in place of good old copying and pasting.
 
Feudal era Japan or China.
That 1970s NYC idea is awesome.
WWII French/German resistance.
Ancient Egypt.
Jesus-time Jerusalem.
Basically ANY setting where the primary protagonist looks AT ALL different, please!

If you wanted to be extremely bold and make something wildly dark you could do something with the Vietnam war. I'd buy that in an instant for just the huge ethical issues you'd have to navigate. Oh man, or the story could be from the Vietcong side...
 

kmax

Member
92282-what-the-fuck-does-that-mean-w-H5Pk.gif


Sometimes, the words that come out from Ubisoft just don't make a whole lot of sense. When was the last time we ever were a Samurai / Ninja assassin in Feudal Japan?
 

Shifty

Member
Market trends swing hard back to samurai and so does Ubisoft. How 'bout that.

I find it mildly hilarious that both God of War and Assassin's Creed both managed to converge on the same flavour of pantheon-hopping fuckery at roughly the same time.

First of all, the necrobump makes sense to me because is clearly a reference to the game:

Was there a 'second of all'..?
 
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That's rich, given that the AC franchise started off in a middle-eastern setting that was already explored in-depth by Prince of Persia at the time.
 
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