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Poetic.Injustice
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(11-13-2014, 01:03 AM)
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While it's been rumored for a while that Sony was going to clamp down on lesser-quality titles, the proof has come in the form of refusals for two of Capcom's MegaMan games.

MegaMan Battle and Chase, Capcom's version of Mario Kart, did not pass Sony's now-stringent approval process. MegaMan X4, the follow-up to the top-selling MegaMan 8, has also been refused.

While it is possible for Sony to accept games for re-evaluation, a Capcom spokesperson told PSXPower, it is fairly rare.


Sony were not able to be reached for comment

http://www.ign.com/articles/1997/05/14/megaman-killed

I remember reading somewhere that Capcom then threatened to not release Resident Evil 2 after which Sony allowed it.

Any truth to this stuff or is just rumors?
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:04 AM)
This is the reason Gunner's Heaven didn't come to the US.

They clearly made exceptions, however, as Mortal Kombat 3 was probably the biggest game to come to the PSX early on.
Crimsonclaw111
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(11-13-2014, 01:06 AM)
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They made very few exceptions from what I understand, Symphony of the Night being one of them.
SwiftDeath
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(11-13-2014, 01:07 AM)
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Has IGN been hosting that news article online for 17 years? If so, that's cool. I always hate trying to read news articles more than 5 years old as they are often taken down
Son of Cervantes
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(11-13-2014, 01:07 AM)
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Yep, it's why they didn't localize Arc the Lad at first.

You can blame Bernie Stolar for the policy.
Hugstable
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(11-13-2014, 01:07 AM)
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Woah so we almost didn't have X4? The hell...
ShockingAlberto
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(11-13-2014, 01:08 AM)
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Yes. Mega Man 8 was going to be a casualty, which is what lead to "What if Resident Evil 2 was a Saturn exclusive?" chatter.

Hell, SCEA was a bitch to work with even up through near the end of the PS2-era. They weren't accommodating about a lot of things - I remember there was a game on the PS2 from a fairly small (now a bit bigger) publisher where a Japanese rock song played during battle and for some reason SCEA thought this was terrible. They demanded the song be replaced with an english song, even though you could still hear the Japanese version when switching to the Japanese language track.
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:08 AM)

Originally Posted by Hugstable

Woah so we almost didn't have X4? The hell...

No, because the Sega Saturn existed.
Hayama Akito
Member
(11-13-2014, 01:09 AM)
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Yes, is true, Hermie Hopperhead was also a victim of this.
ruiner0
Junior Member
(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)
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First time posting, But yes. From what I remember from back in PS1 days, SCEA would not let hardly any 2D games on the PS1. They wanted to show off the 3D capabilties of the system and felt the 2D games where not right for the platform. Hermie Hopperhead: Scrap Panic was a 2D platformer made by SCEI, I heard it was an amazing but SCEA even passed on that. I am unsure about the Megaman stuff, But guess they would have let the main Megaman games on PS1 due to the fact it was a loss for Nintendo. But SCEE left alot of 2D games come to PS1.
Last edited by ruiner0; 11-13-2014 at 01:11 AM. Reason: spelling.
Seven Force
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)
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That article title, lol.

Originally Posted by Hugstable

Woah so we almost didn't have X4? The hell...

It still would have come out on Saturn, most likely.
Laevateinn
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(11-13-2014, 01:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Son of Cervantes

You can blame Bernie Stolar for the policy.

I hate Bernie Stolar more than anyone in gaming.
Lime
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(11-13-2014, 01:13 AM)
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I'm glad Valkyrie Profile got out of the door despite this demand.
MaverickHunterX
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(11-13-2014, 01:14 AM)
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SCEA had a bunch of goofy ass rules about games being released in the USA. A good example I remember was that all games had to have an ending (so, why we didn't get a lot of classic collections at the ending of its lifecycle). Supposedly, Namco cut a deal with them so that the museum series would be excluded from this.

But yeah, we missed out on:

Mickeys Wild Adventure/Mickey Mania
Earthworm Jim 2
Megaman Complete Works
Capcom Generations

And more...

Originally Posted by ShockingAlberto

Yes. Mega Man 8 was going to be a casualty, which is what lead to "What if Resident Evil 2 was a Saturn exclusive?" chatter.

Actually, if I remember correctly, after Megaman 8'was announced for US Saturn release, SCEA demanded a version with an exclusive (the anniversary book in the first print). It was afterwards with x4 that they started to fight Capcom...
Last edited by MaverickHunterX; 11-13-2014 at 01:17 AM.
timetokill
I call 'em "death hugs"
(11-13-2014, 01:14 AM)
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Yes, Sony was afraid of their platform looking "old," especially compared to the powerful new N64, so they heavily discouraged or disallowed 2D games.
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:16 AM)

Originally Posted by Laevateinn

I hate Bernie Stolar more than anyone in gaming.


Bernie Stolar really dropped the ball with the RAM cartridge.
X-Men vs Street Fighter could have expanded the market.
Marvel vs Capcom, beyond fathom.
Tell the truth, playstation aint ready to have 'em
Come on, I'll bring the Onslaught
Alpha and Omega
Khaos Unique, brought to you by SEGA
Poetic.Injustice
Member
(11-13-2014, 01:20 AM)
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Seems like they were blocking them in the PS2 era as well.

Moving on to recent difficulties with the submissions process at Sony Computer Entertainment America, Koyama-san let the firm’s frustration with recent events be known. As regular readers of ***** will know, SNK’s US offering, headed up by the infamous Ben Herman, has had some difficulties in its attempts to get games already on open sale in Japan accepted as stand-alone PlayStation 2 releases. “Sony just isn’t interested in 2D games anymore – whatever it might be,” exclaimed Koyama-san. “And yet many games, as long as they are in 3D, trickle through all the time. It’s a crazy situation and we don’t believe it reflects the needs of game consumers."

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/sn...sony.62242703/
Toad.T
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:21 AM)
It's because it was a different time back then. People saw 2D as some sort of old man dragging the industry down, due to the new perspectives brought on by Mario 64/Nights/Crash's success. Where as now, people will actively throw money at this type of gameplay, feeling that it's a break from the AAA market of today.

I personally think they wouldn't even care though. It was a bridge period, so overlap should've been expected.
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Poetic.Injustice

Seems like they were blocking them in the PS2 era as well.



http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/sn...sony.62242703/

This is why we got a bunch of collections on the PS2, like the Street Fighter Anthology, Mega Man Anniversary collection, KOF 97 & 98, etc.

It's also why Metal Slug 3 didn't come to the PS2.
ruiner0
Junior Member
(11-13-2014, 01:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Krejlooc

Bernie Stolar really dropped the ball with the RAM cartridge.
X-Men vs Street Fighter could have expanded the market.
Marvel vs Capcom, beyond fathom.
Tell the truth, playstation aint ready to have 'em
Come on, I'll bring the Onslaught
Alpha and Omega
Khaos Unique, brought to you by SEGA

I don't think it was Bernie Stolar, As much as an asshat he was. I place the blame of the Saturn at the feet of Sega CEO Hayao Nakayama. He pushed for a way too soon release and pretty much got rid of Tom Kalinske, Who did build Sega into something. Hell Tom Kalinske knew the Saturn sucked, He said it just needed the right software, Which I believe if he wasn't replaced we would have gotten those games, just my 2 bits.
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:23 AM)

Originally Posted by ruiner0

I don't think it was Bernie Stolar, As much as an asshat he was. I place the blame of the Saturn at the feet of Sega CEO Hayao Nakayama. He pushed for a way too soon release and pretty much got rid of Tom Kalinske, Who did build Sega into something. Hell Tom Kalinske knew the Saturn sucked, He said it just needed the right software, Which I believe if he wasn't replaced we would have gotten those games, just my 2 bits.

those are song lyrics
ruiner0
Junior Member
(11-13-2014, 01:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Krejlooc

those are song lyrics

A shitty song or a good one?
entremet
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(11-13-2014, 01:26 AM)
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Such a terrible policy. I'm so happy for the indie game movement and crowdfunding. These console gatekeepers make such horrible decisions.
Poetic.Injustice
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(11-13-2014, 01:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by ruiner0

A shitty song or a good one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgfxs9gVCKc
kirblar
Member
(11-13-2014, 01:28 AM)
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Wow, so the FGC 2D dark ages were partially man-made? Gross.
ShockingAlberto
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(11-13-2014, 01:30 AM)
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There are always exceptions to any SCEA rule, really. And sometimes there are notable cases of games being blocked despite similar games passing through.

I think they either used to or still do have a rule that ports of previous generation games should be packaged together and can't be released standalone - I believe this fucked over the PSP Remaster series for some games. They had an "Every game needs an english dub" rule, but Yakuza clearly got an exception. They had a rule for the PSP where PS1 ports required 30% new content - this blocked Tales of Eternia from coming to America, but it came to Europe fine. Mega Man Legends had other issues (specifically with the dub), but it probably would not have been able to come here on PSP under those rules, anyway.

I can't remember if Suikoden I+II was a case of a game being blocked or Konami being dumb. Theoretically it should have been fine, unless the lack of 30% new content overrode it being a compilation.
orioto
Good Art™
(11-13-2014, 01:31 AM)
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Nintendo did the same thing actually
Krejlooc
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:31 AM)

Originally Posted by ruiner0

A shitty song or a good one?

A great song
ruiner0
Junior Member
(11-13-2014, 01:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Krejlooc

A great song

Well I never heard the song, Those where just my thoughts.
kswiston
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(11-13-2014, 01:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lime

I'm glad Valkyrie Profile got out of the door despite this demand.

I am pretty sure that the policy was dead by that point. Post Final Fantasy VII, most RPGs were fair game, 2D or not.
TheBryanJZX90
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(11-13-2014, 01:33 AM)
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Yes, absolutely. Sony specifically was anti-2d and anti-JRPG in the early PSX days. Sony prevented Soul Hackers from being released on PSX. Atlus was ready to do it. I still remember the headline at thegia.com
old
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(11-13-2014, 01:34 AM)
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The guy at Working Designs said as much.
Laconic
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:34 AM)
Yes.

They also hindered the release of RPGs in the West, believing there to not be enough of a market for them.

The fact that the absolute travesty that was Beyond the Beyond was actually profitable, proved our thirst enough for them to give us Wild Arms.

After that, and FF VII, the rest was history.
Last edited by Laconic; 11-13-2014 at 01:37 AM.
TheBryanJZX90
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(11-13-2014, 01:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by ruiner0

A shitty song or a good one?

Ban this person.

Protoculture is basically GAF distilled into rap form.
FoneBone
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(11-13-2014, 01:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by ShockingAlberto

I think they either used to or still do have a rule that ports of previous generation games should be packaged together and can't be released standalone - I believe this fucked over the PSP Remaster series for some games. They had an "Every game needs an english dub" rule, but Yakuza clearly got an exception. They had a rule for the PSP where PS1 ports required 30% new content - this blocked Tales of Eternia from coming to America, but it came to Europe fine. Mega Man Legends had other issues (specifically with the dub), but it probably would not have been able to come here on PSP under those rules, anyway.

I believe that was the case on the PS3 as well (all the HD remasters I can think of were either included in 2-3- game compilations or were DD-only)
SpaceDrake
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(11-13-2014, 01:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

I am pretty sure that the policy was dead by that point. Post Final Fantasy VII, most RPGs were fair game, 2D or not.

They absolutely were not. The rule was softened if you were a gorilla who could hold platform defection over Sony's head like a Sword of Damocles, but if you were a smaller publisher, fuck you.

For example, I know for a fact that the old, PS1 Ateliers got brought to Sony for release back when they were relevant. They got shot down, universally.
Agent X
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(11-13-2014, 01:37 AM)
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I've heard this for years. While I know they've shot down a few notable 2D games, I don't think it's necessarily because they were 2D. After all, there were many 2D games during the PlayStation's first year on the market in the US, even several at launch (Raiden Project, Rayman, Street Fighter: The Movie, NBA Jam: Tournament Edition). There might have been other factors involved with the games that were rejected.
sörine
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:37 AM)
I know SCEA blocked Soul Hackers way back in the day as well as an early port of Radiant Silvergun for PSX, which then was canceled entirely.
koopas
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(11-13-2014, 01:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by old

The guy at Working Designs said as much.

I'm pretty sure he posts here. Would love to see a write up on the approval process what that looked like back then.
Eusis
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(11-13-2014, 01:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by orioto

Nintendo did the same thing actually

Got any good examples from that period? I suspect any there weren't for localization but for coming out period, they DID want to keep the SNES/SFC around for 2D games, and that held true for at least Fire Emblem.
Dragoon En Regalia
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(11-13-2014, 01:39 AM)
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Gotta hand it to Bernie for this one. He did the same blocking routine when Sony inserted him into SEGA of America, like a malignancy you can pass from host to host.
Voliko
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(11-13-2014, 01:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

They absolutely were not. The rule was softened if you were a gorilla who could hold platform defection over Sony's head like a Sword of Damocles, but if you were a smaller publisher, fuck you.

For example, I know for a fact that the old, PS1 Ateliers got brought to Sony for release back when they were relevant. They got shot down, universally.

Yeah, it was mad bullshit. If they had the audacity to refuse Mega Man games then smaller companies didn't have a chance. It took so long for an Atelier game to come out in the US.

The whole deal with Sony making Working Designs package both Growlanser II and III together was one of the bigger travesties that we know about. I mean come on...
Hugstable
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(11-13-2014, 01:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Krejlooc

No, because the Sega Saturn existed.

Oh jeez how could I forget that. X4 was one of my favorite of the X series haha.
FF Seraphim
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(11-13-2014, 01:44 AM)
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I thought this was common knowledge that Sony during the PS1 and PS2 era were a bitch to work with if you had a 2d game that you wanted to come to the US. Sony had the mentality of pushing 3d graphics.
TheBryanJZX90
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(11-13-2014, 01:46 AM)
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I think it's important to realize that the anti-2d viewpoint was shared by a lot of videogame fans at the time as well. Everyone wanted to show off/justify their shiny new console purchases, and the 3d games of the time were something they could point to and say "now THIS is next-gen. My SNES couldn't do that!"

I can see a lot of parallels to the sudden extreme importance of 1080p60fps as this newest generation of consoles finds its feet. I only hope that we as a fan base don't overlook worthwhile games that don't meet an arbitrary technical standard in the same way that games like Suikoden, Alundra, and the first Wild ARMs were often overlooked for the 3d Toshindens of the time.
orioto
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(11-13-2014, 01:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Eusis

Got any good examples from that period? I suspect any there weren't for localization but for coming out period, they DID want to keep the SNES/SFC around for 2D games, and that held true for at least Fire Emblem.

From my own knowledge Rayman 2 (in 2D) was canceled cause Nintendo rejected it.

But even backk then it was known, that Sony and Nintendo didn't like 2D. I mean it's pretty clear that the N64 was not a 2D fest to begin with.. 2D games on it can be counted on one hand.

And i'd add that Nintendo ha a history of screwing some classical genres by their console designs. N64 basically didn't care for fighters nor shoot them up, for example.
Last edited by orioto; 11-13-2014 at 01:50 AM.
PixyJunket
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(11-13-2014, 01:48 AM)
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They were doing this during PS3 as well, you can thank Sony personally for taking a hot steamer dump on Cave, which led them (and later many other shmup developers) to the 360.
NormalFish
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(11-13-2014, 01:48 AM)
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Hating SCEA's policies is truly a timeless endeavor.
MagnaderAlpha
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(11-13-2014, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toad.T

It's because it was a different time back then. People saw 2D as some sort of old man dragging the industry down, due to the new perspectives brought on by Mario 64/Nights/Crash's success. Where as now, people will actively throw money at this type of gameplay, feeling that it's a break from the AAA market of today.

I personally think they wouldn't even care though. It was a bridge period, so overlap should've been expected.

I hated that mentality back in the day. I think that sort of limiting mentality fucks variety for us all. We could have good things, it's just asshats( with a skewed perception of how they think the world should be ruin it for the rest of us. It's one of the reasons I loath trends.

And I don't think 2D was any threat to 3D. Cue the "What can't we have both" girl, because 3D was going strong. It would've just allowed more exposure of 2D to gamers who, hell, if given a fair chance, might've actually developed some appreciation for the style rather than being conditioned to be "all 3D, all the time!". I don't doubt that whole "movement" back in the day resulted in some of the kiddies to come afterwards being so negative towards anything 2D. At least in the recent years, some of those kids opened their minds to different gaming experiences, which is why there is a new found appreciation for the 2D/retro style. Still, I can't help to think we COULD'VE had some damn fine games back in the day. I think I said this in the Harmony of Dissonance thread, but I would've killed for a REAL Symphony of the Night follow-up, on PS1 OR PS2, 2D, CD quality sound, rich and detailed backgrounds and smooth as silk gameplay! While I love all the Metroidvania games in the series afterwards, I don't think any has come close to matching SotN in pure quality. That sucks.
Last edited by MagnaderAlpha; 11-13-2014 at 01:59 AM.
Seven Force
Banned
(11-13-2014, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by ShockingAlberto

They had a rule for the PSP where PS1 ports required 30% new content - this blocked Tales of Eternia from coming to America, but it came to Europe fine. Mega Man Legends had other issues (specifically with the dub), but it probably would not have been able to come here on PSP under those rules, anyway.

I can't remember if Suikoden I+II was a case of a game being blocked or Konami being dumb. Theoretically it should have been fine, unless the lack of 30% new content overrode it being a compilation.

I believe Breath of Fire III PSP also got screwed by that rule in NA. Sucks even more since there's apparently legal issues preventing the original PS1 release from ever showing up as a PS1 classic.

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