Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
I posted it in the PC build thread but LG is also releasing monitors with Freesync support. Two Ultrawide (21:9) models.
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AMDs Future of Compute: CARRIZO APU, 5 Samsung UHD FreeSync displays + more
- Thread starter ScepticMatt
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SuperEpicGuy
Banned
Umm how is noone mentioning the "9-240 Hz". Does that mean we'll have 240hz monitors?
Will they top out at 60hz?
Because a 60+hz 21:9 would literally be my dream come true.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Theoretically, but that doesn't mean Free Sync monitors will be 240hz - it will depend on the panel. We're getting 4k samsung displays, and DP can't drive 4k @ 144hz, let alone 240hz.
Felix Lighter
Member
I just bought a GSync monitor and it is exactly what I hoped it would be. I'm all for FreeSync and hopefully some day, all monitors will have similiar dynamic refresh rates. Now that it's proven technically possible, it's the only way that makes sense to handle this shit. Down with Vsync.
foolishoptimist
Member
Looking forward to TVs supporting this.
I don't like to game sitting at a PC.
With both major consoles using AMD chips, I wonder if there's a chance of a displayport in the next major hardware refreshes...
I don't like to game sitting at a PC.
With both major consoles using AMD chips, I wonder if there's a chance of a displayport in the next major hardware refreshes...
This may change me from green team to red team.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
How is that a benefit?
TromboneTony
Member
Locuza
Member
I think this is more a dream than something which may happen.
24 Hz footage without somekind of little judder will only play evenly on even factors.
24 Hz, 48 Hz, 72 Hz, 96 Hz, 120 Hz, 144 Hz.
So without a monitor supporting the refreshtimes listed above, you have some negative impact on the playback.
With FreeSync such problems can be solved.
Not gonna happen, if things will stay like they are now and in the near future.
Self_Destructive
Member
So I just recently bought the 4K Samsung U28D590D monitor. So am I to assume it'll just need a firmware update or something?
KillaKalz347
Banned
DP 1.3 will allow 2 4K displays at 60hz, as well as 5K and 8K displays. So I don't think 4K at 120hz is too out of bounds.
Locuza
Member
Many people tend to read too much into it.
Intel wasn't thinking about supporting it, Intel did their own research on overhead reduction and they were interested how mantle tackle things and if they can gather arguments together with AMD.
I guess for things like DX12 and OpenGL-Next.
This was something Andrew Lauritzen from Intel elaborated in the Beyond3DForum.
Melon Husk
Member
Good news to hear. If A-Sync is superior to G-Sync my next GPU upgrade is an AMD card.
AMD has been working with Khronos for months on OpenGL next, and subsequently had offered mantle as a low level template for them to use.
So while they may not use Mantle itself...mantle or some of its architecture may end up in OpenGL Next anyway.
Locuza
Member
Yes, many concepts and similarities can and probably will occur.
Sir Abacus
Member
Bought an ROG Swift, best monitor I've ever bought. Gsync is absolutely amazing. More people finally getting this technology will be the best thing to happen to PC gaming in a long time.
The future
Good to hear that Samsung freesync stuff. I'll buy the first sub-$500 1440p a-sync display that works with both nvidia and amd. Got a gtx970 but I'm not letting my monitor lock me in to a single vendor.
edit: welp, looks like nvidia's already crippled me. God dammit. So... what are the odds some manufacturer will make a display that supports both?
:lol
edit: welp, looks like nvidia's already crippled me. God dammit. So... what are the odds some manufacturer will make a display that supports both?
:lol
Nvidia's scaler chip adds ULMB, right? If so, that's one point for them, I guess?
Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.
So has AMD disclosed any additional details as to how their technology works, precisely?
I mean, it seems like their solution is going to be less tightly integrated; is it reasonable, therefore, to expect it's going to work as well as g-sync? And have they done any demos since the initial reveal?
I mean, it seems like their solution is going to be less tightly integrated; is it reasonable, therefore, to expect it's going to work as well as g-sync? And have they done any demos since the initial reveal?
Are any of these Samsung monitors not TN or is the selection as annoyingly limited to low-quality panel types as the G-sync one?
The whole idea that the first time the public would see an open standard API is over a year after it was created with an SDK release is, frankly, ludicrous.
You know, you could at least read the entire post you're quoting.
I made a post on how Mantle is not in any way, shape or form an open standard in an earlier thread.
The whole idea that the first time the public would see an open standard API is over a year after it was created with an SDK release is, frankly, ludicrous.
dr_rus
Member
So let's do a check on AMD PR bullshit again?
1. "Freesync will work with all displays which will have DP1.2a+ support" - nope, it won't, that extension is optional to implement for both DP source and DP receiver.
2. "Freesync is free and won't increase the cost of display support it" - nope, it's not free and it will increase the cost because it needs a new and more complex scaler h/w. (You will probably also need a new GPU from AMD for this.)
3. "Freesync is better than Gsync" - well, guess we'll have to wait for the Freesync supporting monitors here.
The real question currently is - is there any reason for NV to not include Adaptive VSync support into their desktop GPUs? With them already supporting their own GSync standard this should be rather simple to do. I can't see any reason for them to not do this eventually.
1. "Freesync will work with all displays which will have DP1.2a+ support" - nope, it won't, that extension is optional to implement for both DP source and DP receiver.
2. "Freesync is free and won't increase the cost of display support it" - nope, it's not free and it will increase the cost because it needs a new and more complex scaler h/w. (You will probably also need a new GPU from AMD for this.)
3. "Freesync is better than Gsync" - well, guess we'll have to wait for the Freesync supporting monitors here.
The real question currently is - is there any reason for NV to not include Adaptive VSync support into their desktop GPUs? With them already supporting their own GSync standard this should be rather simple to do. I can't see any reason for them to not do this eventually.
mitchman
Gold Member
I have the current 4k Samsung monitor, the 590, and it's a 10-bit TN panel, so it doesn't suffer from the 6-bit issues with many other TN panels. It's cheap, and feels a bit on the cheap side, but I can handle that for that glorious 4k experience.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Nope - they get royalties from gsync, they'll be hoping this fails.
But unless AMD severely screw up their implementation of async this will succeed. As long as it's 90% as good as gsync, the lack of royalties will end up with wider support from vendors and nvidia will eventually be forced to come up with their own async implementation.
I tried a TN panel said to be "high quality", and I really couldn't deal with it after a decade or so of using exclusively PVA and IPS panels. But I realize that I'm particularly picky in this regard.
Still, I wish someone other than only Eizo would make high-refresh-rate PVA. Or they made a higher res one.
Since I just read it today, I can't resist linking to this in reply to that:
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-11/benchmarks-und-grafikvergleich-zu-dragon-age-inquisition/
(Summary: Mantle is between 0% and 5% slower than DX11 in their DA:I benchmarks)
Can I ask you something? And, to be clear, I'm not trying to engage in an argument, I just want to understand. I know about for preference for nVidia, but why hate AMD? I mean, sure, they have their flaws and some of them are really big. In fact, I have an AMD GPU and I plan to go back to nVidia whenever I buy another one, so it's not like I want to defend them, but I don't see why attack them.
I really hope FreeSync and Mantle get track. And I also hope other companies help with that. Not because of company X or Y getting profit, but because consumers will get the benefits. Even if I don't get to use any of them. Maybe Mantle will perform better in Inquisition after patch(es) and/or driver updates. Or maybe with Intel and nVidia eventually also supporting the API, they can also help it perform better (please, let's not get into the argument of it being open or not, let's just consider it will be, based on the latest news). When DirectX 12 is released, keeping Mantle support will force Microsoft to also improve on DX. And FreeSync competing with G-Sync may lead to better prices for all of us.
So what I don't get is the hate for AMD or even for nVidia by users in some cases. Competition is good and both of them should always perform on the best way they can so us (consumers) get the best of it. I understand calling their attention of they're not doing that, but not hoping a technology supported by one or another fails because someone thinks the other one is better.
I couldn't read that article. I am getting database errors. Regardless I'm sure you either misread the article or the journalists misrepresented their stance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_FzXxGVNi4&list=UUtKh7t3br1obEQL6EyiAq0w&t=50m55s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_FzXxGVNi4&list=UUtKh7t3br1obEQL6EyiAq0w&t=58m06s
Nikodemos
Member
Well, TN is ancient technology. It's been around for like, what, 20 years? That's a geological era in computing time. The fact that panel makers can't let it go
guehehe
Oh, and apparently the FX-series (and the AM3+ socket) are officially official dead. At least that's what I get out of AMD's rather weasely statement.
@RobertoSAGuedes:
It's a relatively common cognitive bias. A company which makes products seen as desirable gets a lot of its shit overlooked or minimalised. Conversely, a company whose products are seen as lesser has its faults amplified. Add to this the fact that nVidia have been smart with their marketing, which resembles that of energy drinks and sports products to a certain extent, whereas AMD are more... well, lacklustre, to put it frankly. AMD also have the anti-halo effect of their repeatedly poorly-performing CPUs which drags down the image of their graphics solutions.
Would you say it's just as good as going from platter hard drives to SSDs?
New iMac confirmed to run 60Hz at 5120×2880 resolution
The updates to HDMI and DP are around the corner and now the displays to leverage the new bandwidth are finally being developed.
Thanks for this. News to me.
This is also very interesting. Do you have any links?.
I'd love to see this post actually.
As for your point about the SDK, off the top of my head Open GL, Open AL and Open Cl all had similar initial releases. Specifically Open GL which was wholly proprietary until SGI decided to go open. Even after that point it took over a year before the ARB came and the community took the standard. Standards like these usually start off under one or two hats before they expand. Of course, calling Mantle a standard at this point is a bit of a stretch.
opticalmace
Member
Where did he say he hated AMD?
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Dragon-Age-Inquisition-PC-236767/Specials/Technik-Test-1142136/
Just decided to look up some other benchmarks, in this particular test, Mantle outperformed DX11 by about 10% on the R9 290X, and 3% on the R9 270X.
Rather than jumping to conclusions on one or two tests, I would say that after people test the game out more, with different CPUs, we may be able to have a clearer picture on the impact of Mantle, especially with weaker CPUs, as AMD claims the performance increase with a weak CPU is supposed to be much larger.
Not that he said it, but it's clear he doesn't like them. Maybe it was a poor choice of words, but the point of my post remains.
Sir Abacus
Member
Each are great in their own way. But the lack of microstutter in games is godlike. It's just... smooth.
I don't hate AMD at all. In fact, I have an Athlon FX processor and an ATI Radeon 9700 displayed in my glass cabinet.
What I really hate is marketing something as "open" which isn't open in the least, so I haven't been too happy about them since Mantle. And I guess I'm also highly iritated at some AMD fanboys.
Sure:
wtf? DICE pitched the mantle tech to nvidia first. It's not AMD's fault nvidia passed on it. Can you blame AMD for taking advantage of it?
Locuza
Member
This is an more official statement from Intel, but it's basically the same what Andrew said in the B3D Forum:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365909/intel-approached-amd-about-access-to-mantle.html
And many people use this logic:
Intel is interested in Mantle --> Intel wants/think to support Mantle.
Since Mantle the whole "being open" propaganda started and many believers are spreading from the ground.
But it's far away from being fair and open.
And i also don't know why people are saying DICE pitched it first to Nvidia and some are even saying it's DICE API.
Yes but that's not an exclusive process for open standard creation. You don't have to follow this path.
Again, open GL came to be in a similar fashion. It took almost 2 years before SGI released open GL for public consumption and the ARB to be formed. Seems like a pretty petty charge honestly. I can provide plenty of examples of open standards that start with one or a few entities having the cards tight until the initial offering. 1.0 is usually just a glorified proof of concept.
What exactly has AMD done that's not fair or somehow against openness?
Given light of their recent invitations to Nvidia/Intel, these are some very weird and ironic claims
Locuza
Member
But nowadays you maybe should.
Developing an API in secret, releasing as a Beta, don't giving insights till a certain point and having the absolute control over it and the direction the standard will going.
Maybe i'm broken, but that doesn't sounds fair to me.
Is DX12 developing like this? Or OGL Next?
Maybe i'm just too sceptical, but besides of PR, how serious AMD take this invitations?
DICE's rendering architect Johan Andersson regarding Mantle http://heise.de/-2045398
bohoo it is so unfair to nvidia for snubbing it in the first place.
Locuza
Member
I agree, DICE and some others ISVs talked to the IHVs about things and ideas that are important to them.
Nobody cared as much as AMD and greenlighted the idea of that kind of thing.
But where is the source saying DICE approached to Nvidia and/or Intel first?
I can't tell where DICE was first, maybe even at AMD, maybe parallel at each of them?
Who named the API Mantle?
I just think it was AMD and it's AMDs IP.
DICE helped out a lot, but it's not making it DICEs API.
Things about being open(source), Intel, DICE, Nvidia, AMD, i have read so much fiction about the topics and ask myself when will this stop.
Nobody cared as much as AMD and greenlighted the idea of that kind of thing.
But where is the source saying DICE approached to Nvidia and/or Intel first?
I can't tell where DICE was first, maybe even at AMD, maybe parallel at each of them?
Who named the API Mantle?
I just think it was AMD and it's AMDs IP.
DICE helped out a lot, but it's not making it DICEs API.
Things about being open(source), Intel, DICE, Nvidia, AMD, i have read so much fiction about the topics and ask myself when will this stop.
You could like read the link he gave (or ask for a translation if you can't understand it even machine translated) instead spreading fiction on your own.
Locuza
Member
You could show an old, blind man, where he can find the sentence, stating DICE pitched the idea first to Nvidia.
Please don't leave the thread now.
Im sorry but I really don't see any of this as unfair. Seems like standard stuff. AMD is undoubtedly for-profit so their commercial interests will always come first but non of this impedes progression. And yes usually if a company is developing something that they hope will evolve to a standard, then usually they provide a POC to start from.
As from your other questions, while MS may take counsel from various people, DX is definitley unilaterally controlled by MS.
Honestly Mantle as it is seems pretty piece meal. I think anything resembling a standard will come thru Khronos/MS.
Ah, sure, that's something different. I don't bother with fanboys.
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