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Help me save my Plasma TV from Destiny HUD

A

amar212

Member
I have a problem. Destiny HUD is killing my plasma.

I love Destiny HUD, I find it beautiful, logical and informative.

But the lower left bars and icons - all made to be static and from bright tones of white, yellow and light blue - have brought pain and sorrow to my new Panasonic 65ST50 plasma that have developed serious retention from my 200+ hours of Destiny sessions.

I would simply want an option to make it transparent. To make it slightly move with movements of the view would be amazing. And to get both options - to make it transparent and to make it move slightly with moving of the view would be a miracle.

I tried to solve my issue via Bungie forums, via Bungie Twitter, DeeJ's Twitter, I even PM'd Urk here, and he was very kind in forwarding my plea (as he said) to the developing team, without any promises. Month has passed, we got various updates and many are coming in the near future, but no one tackles this issue.

I can understand it. More important things are more important. Plasma TV users are great minority and we are almost instinct rase. But we love our panels. We love our deep blacks. We love the warm whites. And set that keep us warm during the whole year.

I am asking you GAF to help me bringing this issue to greater attention.

If you happen to know anyone in Bungie, please bring this issue to their eyes. If you are comfortable in helping us, tweet the Bungie/DeeJ/anyone about this topic.

Use hashtags, spread the word and help us, please.

I love my plasma and I don't want it to be destroyed. A small option would help tremendously.

Thank you in advance.
 
A

AbandonedTrolley

Member
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...

I would imagine the process of getting the image there is still similar so still carries some o of the same downsides but to a lesser degree, but yeah if you have a static image for 200+ hours on a screen, it's not going to end too well.
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...

No, but late model Panasonics that use the fast-aging phosphors for 3D can have long lasting image retention with whites and other bright static HUD elements like the yellow in Destiny's UI. It became a problem on mine, as well, so I moved my PS4 to my PC monitor and played it there mostly. The worst ever was Borderlands 2, whose quest tracker text stayed vaguely visible on my screen for a month after about 100 hours of play.

It's a very real problem for a very small number of players, but I see no reason why HUDs shouldn't be totally customizable in this gen. In particular Destiny's HUD elements that cause retention are annoying because they're so pointless. I don't need a giant white symbol telling me what kind of gun I'm using; I'm well aware of what kind of gun I'm using, thanks. I also don't need a huge white ammo counter; the gun says how much ammo is left on the in-game model.

The ability to turn that part of the HUD off or even just choose the color would be a godsend for late-model plasma players. Some games allow it, particularly the Assassin's Creed games, but it should be universal. For some reason devs are just in love with bright white HUD elements the last few years and it's really become a problem.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...
Image retention. Not permament(burn in is permanent), but it can last a while and be a big annoyance when you're not playing the game.

I had a plasma and certain games were quite bad about this. I would often be sitting there watching The Walking Dead or something with the Forza Motorsport lap counter in the corner of the screen! lol
 
M

meppi

Member
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...

Only in extreme cases where you play nothing but one specific thing with a static HUD.
It's probably not even burn in but some stubborn image retention which will go away in time, unless he keeps playing nothing but Destiny.

My solution for this is to go into the menu every couple of hours and reset the screen boundaries in the game from minimum to maximum and vice versa.
It only affects the HUD and will move it several inches between positions.
That should keep the HUD from staying on your screen after you're done playing.

Oh and every game system should come with a HUD transparency option on the system level in the same way the 360 let you set control preferences and view settings for driving games and such.
 
N

nbnt

is responsible for the well-being of this island.
~50 hours of Destiny did the same to my plasma, playing a lot of other games did the trick though. Never going plasma again.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
MattKeil said:
No, but late model Panasonics that use the fast-aging phosphors for 3D can have long lasting image retention with whites and other bright static HUD elements like the yellow in Destiny's UI. It became a problem on mine, as well, so I moved my PS4 to my PC monitor and played it there mostly. The worst ever was Borderlands 2, whose quest tracker text stayed vaguely visible on my screen for a month after about 100 hours of play.

It's a very real problem for a very small number of players, but I see no reason why HUDs shouldn't be totally customizable in this gen. In particular Destiny's HUD elements that cause retention are annoying because they're so pointless. I don't need a giant white symbol telling me what kind of gun I'm using; I'm well aware of what kind of gun I'm using, thanks. I also don't need a huge white ammo counter; the gun says how much ammo is left on the in-game model.

The ability to turn that part of the HUD off or even just choose the color would be a godsend for late-model plasma players. Some games allow it, particularly the Assassin's Creed games, but it should be universal. For some reason devs are just in love with bright white HUD elements the last few years and it's really become a problem.
Click to expand...
Yeah. In an ideal world, color and opacity settings would solve that.
It's really specific colors/contrast as the only game I ever had any retention issues with on my GT50 was ACIII.

Regardless of IR, it's just good design to have options to show HUD elements only when they're useful and hide them the rest of the time.
 
S

Sickbean

Member
I feel your pain OP.

I had the Demons' Souls world tendency icon retained on my plasma for ages.

Do you have a scrolling bar pattern built into the TV menu? That worked for me.
 
I

Inside

Member
Retention on Plasma comes very quickly. We are talking after 30 minutes or so, and you will be able to see the logo on white background. I have had many Panasonic Plasmas: PX70, G10, X20, VT30, VT50 and now VT60.

They all have had this issue. But as quickly as you get retention, just as easy is it to get rid of it again. So have you watched 30 minutes of local TV with the same logo in the corner, then just run the build-in white bar function for 10-15 minutes and it will be gone again.

200 hours of Destiny then may take 100 hours of white bar running.

You find the white scrolling bar in the image settings. Here you can see it in function:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edLiKEMs7L4

Are you very unlucky, then you will have image burn-in. I have only tried that on my VT30, which was because of the higher sensitivity of the panel after they started to add 3D functionality. I got my money back and brought the VT50 instead.
 
F

Farslain

Member
I have the GT version of this set in our game room and the last VT model Panasonic made in our lounge and have been through what you are experiencing.

Firstly, it is very likely just image retention and not burn in. I had nearly a thousand hours of Dark Souls on my gaming plasma and have had a flask stuck on the screen from the games launch until last month, it would only be noticable when playing or watching something very bright, but it was there none the less. No ammount of screen washing solutions would touch it, time was the only solution.

A few hundred hous of FFXIV on PS4 did similar things, thankfully each hud element is moveable and you can adjust it's transparency, so that IR only lasted a month or two.

Things to do to alleviate burn in, set the sharpness to abaolute minimum and check the anti burn in option on the set is set to On and not Auto. Iterestingly I've found using my set with it set to Auto for a few hours would help speed up the removal of long term retention.

Beyond that, IR was far worse with less than about 1500 hours use on my gaming set and about 900 on our movie watching set, so if you think you are much less than 1000 hours use i'd highly recommend running the plasma slide show images that are found on the popular forums.

And my final advice, if the retention bothers you too much and you take your gaming seriously, consider a gaming monitor. Retention is sadly a 'feature' of Plasma,

I simply reached a point where I no longer care, much happier now.
 
D

DownGrader

Member
Did you have burn-in reduction turned on in the settings of your TV set? The one which slightly shifts the image in random directions.
 
P

Pseudo judo

Member
I feel you brother. I've got the Destiny hud burned into my Panasonic Plasma. I've put the scrolling black and white bars on for 12hrs in order to get rid of the burn, but no, it seems it's there for the life of my tv.

Customization with the hud would be great but I have very little faith in Bungie to implement something like this
 
H

h3ro

Member
Having an option to set HUD opacity was one of the few things Driveclub did well.

As a VT60 owner, I sympathize but devs have to see this as an issue. Not just for plasma owners but for immersion. Some of these new games have WAY TOO MUCH stuff on screen taking away from the actual gameplay.

Options to toggle hud off or make the elements more transparent should be compulsory at this point.
 
W

Where's my goat?

Member
meppi said:
My solution for this is to go into the menu every couple of hours and reset the screen boundaries in the game from minimum to maximum and vice versa.
It only affects the HUD and will move it several inches between positions.
That should keep the HUD from staying on your screen after you're done playing.
Click to expand...

This is what I did with Destiny, Diablo 3, and now with GTA V on PS4. Every few hours of gameplay I go into the display settings and change the safe zone display or whatever it's called.
 
A

Auto-Reply

Member
Has your tv overscan, turn it on/off every 30 minutes or something to offset the hud. Doesn't really work for centric stuff like crosshairs.

Personally I was quite lucky that most devs of games I like tent to have the foresight to implement hud options or I can trick it on PC. I remember playing Alan Wake and Battlefield Bad Company 2 on 360, both gave me image retention that lastet for weeks.
It'd be such an easy thing to implement for devs but we still see games without any hud options.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
h3ro said:
Having an option to set HUD opacity was one of the few things Driveclub did well.

As a VT60 owner, I sympathize but devs have to see this as an issue. Not just for plasma owners but for immersion. Some of these new games have WAY TOO MUCH stuff on screen taking away from the actual gameplay.

Options to toggle hud off or make the elements more transparent should be compulsory at this point.
Click to expand...
For all the shit it (rightfully) caught, AC Unity had a one click solution to turn off the HUD completely by holding R3 for a couple of seconds. I think that's a great thing more games should do if they have a button to spare somewhere.
 
A

AuRoN89

Banned
modern plasma have burn-in protection... but you must activate it... it's a sort of screensaver that appear for some seconds every X minutes.
 
R

Rflagg

Member
I hope they add fully customizable/transparent huds soon and more games should do this in general.

For now though this advice has never let me down with stubborn image retention.
AlexMogil said:
Turn your tv to static for a couple hours and see if it cleans it up.
Click to expand...
 
Auto_aim1

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
I had this same problem with Dark Souls but it got fixed after a few months. I mean there's nothing you can do but wait because the in-built remover is useless.
 
H

h3ro

Member
I'm sure you're aware Amar, but make sure that the pixel orbiter option is enabled on your Panny.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Plasma/LCD pissing contest because this is an issue regardless of display technology.

Devs need to see that they need to include HUD options. Even if there are necessary elements that must remain on screen, at least give us the option to reduce the opacity so that they're less intrusive and indirectly, easier on our displays.
 
A

amar212

Member
h3ro said:
I'm sure you're aware Amar, but make sure that the pixel orbiter option is enabled on your Panny..
Click to expand...

I have.

I am a stubborn plasma user for more than a decade and aware of all potential problems and cures.

But this Destiny HUD retention (not burn-in) is truly annoying.

I am aware it is because I am playing the game almost exclusively on that set (it is used only for gaming, I have another TV in my living room for watching normal things), but I would love to expose the issue more. Thus this thread.

I am doing constant noise-washing and scroll-panels animations, but it does not help.

I will try the solution with the HUD-safe zones, but having an option to get transparent (and movable) HUD would be truly groundbreaking.

Thanks to all for the support.
 
I

IvorB

Member
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...

Not really. But they still do get IR in some cases.

OP, unless you can move the HUD elements or remove them you are just going to have to stop playing Destiny for a while. Sorry, man. You can do the scrolling bar screen every night for an hour as I do but I don't think that will be enough. You need to get some different content on there to wash away the IR.
 
I

iMax

Member
suedester said:
Sorry OP, you've only two options. Get a new TV or stop playing Destiny as much.
Click to expand...

Well that's an easy decision.

JoeTheBlow said:
Buy a proper TV.
Click to expand...

There's no TV on the market right now that performs better than the VT60/ZT60 series, so...

As far as IR goes, yeah I've had the same with Destiny too. Best thing I can suggest is that you change the screen bounds in-game every so often, but it's a dumb limitation that developers should really account for.

For example, Sledgehammer Games deserve a massive high-five for creating a HUD that's absolutely perfect for plasmas.

Also, Microsoft! You need to fade out the Xbox logo on the Xbox One dashboard after a certain period of times. I can't get rid of it now.
 
Z

ZServ

Member
OP, just open YouTube and run like the snow from when you used to get no signal from an antenna. Run that for 20 mins or so and you should see retention be significantly lessened.
 
I

iMax

Member
Question for VT60 owners, while I've got you. Along with my IR for Destiny and Xbox One, there's three or four narrow vertical bars on the right side of the screen that have the same appearance as IR (i.e. slightly dimmer than rest of image). What are these?
 
G

Gillian Seed

Banned
Nothing even comes close to a good Plasma picture! It saddens me that Panasonic stopped making them. Hopefully Samsung continues to keep bringing them out.
 
W

watership

Member
It's not burn in, it's image retention, and if your plasma is under 8 years old and from Pioneer/panasonic or Samsung, you don't have to worry about it. Jusy watch high def, moving TV shows for 20 mins and it will clear up.

But if you're tv breaks, be very sad. The only tvs that are close to the image quality of plasmas are massively over priced OLEDs.
 
R

red731

Member
1. cut black paper in two.
2. proportion it to like 16:2
3. glue onto TV to top and bottom
4. ...
5. enjoy cinematic Destiny gameplay

\
chansub-global-emoticon-ddc6e3a8732cb50f-25x28.png
/

But seriously. How much time would it take to give the hud elements some x and y axis movement with transparency slider.
 
E

EhrgeizVII

Member
I had this on my VT50 with Ni no Kuni. Quite annoying, but it goes away eventually. Although I do agree it would be really awesome if we could just change the interface to be kind to our plasma's.
 
H

Horsemama1956

Member
Uhh, new plasmas can still get burn in, that's just how the technology works. It's no where near as easy anymore as with older models, but it can still happen.
 
K

kevm3

Member
watership said:
It's not burn in, it's image retention, and if your plasma is under 8 years old and from Pioneer/panasonic or Samsung, you don't have to worry about it. Jusy watch high def, moving TV shows for 20 mins and it will clear up.

But if you're tv breaks, be very sad. The only tvs that are close to the image quality of plasmas are massively over priced OLEDs.
Click to expand...

OLEDS have better image quality than plasma
 
Q

Quarantine

Member
This should be an option in your settings where in runs black and white lines across the TV to clear these things out. Look in your menu and see if you can find an option for it. It's pretty standard on most plasma's.
 
C

ChoklitCow

Member
3NPHxjm.png


I feel your pain. Panny S60.

This was after 120-140 hours of Destiny after the first couple of weeks. Haven't touched the game since. Screen wipe was left on for a few days, did a few days of pixel flipper from the Disney WoW disc, and even ran my break-in slideshow for a few days.

After all of that, it has faded slightly (I adjusted the contrast on this picture to make it more apparent). That being said, I'd be shocked if this isn't permanent. I've put in countless hours with other games with absolutely no problem. But then...Destiny.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
This is why never went plasma. The price-hike, the slightly better picture, not worth it if I have to stare at a HUD from my videogame while watching TV.
 
D

Dinosur

Member
Just some clarification for the people here who obviously don't have plasmas but keep offering "solutions..."

1) Pixel orbiter doesn't exist if you have your set calibrated correctly. 1:1 pixel ratio = pixel orbiter doesn't function. It only works if your base image is in one of the various zoom settings.

2) I've heard plenty of people talk about running static or whatnot, but in the VT60's case I have never seen it actually fix anything. I have run the Disney WOW pixel flipper for days and it never affected the IR/BI whatsoever.

The only thing that has ever worked so far is just not playing that particular game for 3-4 weeks. It seems like ~30 hours of one game is where the problems really begin. Like 16-18 hours of Evil Within left some stuff on the screen for about a day, but shit like Black Flag and Destiny will last for months.
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
Iacobellis said:
Plasma sets still get burn-in nowadays?
Click to expand...

The 50 series of Panasonics was notorious for IR for some reason. But it'll be IR not burn-in. I assume you haven't been doing anything stupid like gaming in THX mode?

I sold my GT50 and replaced it with a VT65 which is completely immune to any kind of IR at all, incredible set. Plasma FTW (not Panny 50 series though ;0) EDIT: To be fair I've never played a game for 30 hours non-stop, I have a life!!!

EDIT: On another note it's not plasmas that developers have to worry about with their HUDs, it's future OLED TV owners. OLED TVs are only going to become more prominent in the coming years so developers have to ensure they design their HUDs around them to avoid burn-in.
 
L

LunaticPuma

dresses business casual
Panasonics 3D plasmas get it worse than their previous 2D ones. I think it's something in the new phosphor design. Stupid 3D ruining perfectly good TVs.

I actually switched to a DLP projector for gaming so I haven't had to worry about HUDs, but I have a VT60 that gets IR super fast like 1 minute of sitting on a Netflix screen fast. It eventually goes away, but not as fast as it should. PQ is still top notch and I wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Kuro.
 
G

Gillian Seed

Banned
Monty Mole said:
The 50 series of Panasonics was notorious for IR for some reason. But it'll be IR not burn-in. I assume you haven't been doing anything stupid like gaming in THX mode?

I sold my GT50 and replaced it with a VT65 which is completely immune to any kind of IR at all, incredible set.
Click to expand...

My GT50 gets slight IR from time to time, but nothing that does not go away. I am going to be so sad when it dies on me. But hopefully by then we will have better looking tech on the market. Do Plasma sets still last 7 to 10 years on average?
 
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