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Nzyme32 · Jan 26, 2015

Polk said:
Considering there are dozens of bigger and smaller publishers that's pain in the ass from buyer's perspective. Do I have to check publisher's site every day to check if site is still authorised seller? And what about sites that are both resellers and marketplaces?

Nydus said:
yeah peeps will stop buying keys and start pirating the shit out of it again.

Not at all. I just stick with what is reasonably priced and I know are trustworthy: Steam, Humble, GMG, GoG, Amazon

If you really want more stores, I would go with resources that already check legitimate places, such as Enhanced Steam by GAFs own JShackles, which uses http://isthereanydeal.com/

They check pricing and deals via the following reputable stores, while Enhanced Steam automatically forwards that info to respective store pages for you. The stores they check are:

scitek · Jan 26, 2015

So, if they pull your game, do they contact you about it, or does it just disappear from your account, and you wouldn't know unless you had i tin front of you?

pahamrick · Jan 26, 2015

scitek said:
So, if they pull your game, do they contact you about it, or does it just disappear from your account, and you wouldn't know unless you had i tin front of you?

They just pull it, no contact, no warning, no nothing.

scitek · Jan 26, 2015

pahamrick said:
They just pull it, no contact, no warning, no nothing.

That needs to change.

Nzyme32 · Jan 26, 2015

scitek said:
So, if they pull your game, do they contact you about it, or does it just disappear from your account, and you wouldn't know unless you had i tin front of you?

pahamrick said:
They just pull it, no contact, no warning, no nothing.

Uplay apparently hasn't done that, which in my opinion is pretty damn wonky. Steam at least sets a notification off. Not sure if you get an email or anything. Also not sure what Origin does

pahamrick · Jan 26, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
Uplay apparently hasn't done that, which in my opinion is pretty damn wonky. Steam at least sets a notification off. Not sure if you get an email or anything. Also not sure what Origin does

Don't know what Origin does either, but yeah for Uplay there's no warning or notification. I just happened to log in this morning and ACIV: Black Flag was completely missing from my list of games.

No email either.

scitek · Jan 26, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
Uplay apparently hasn't done that, which in my opinion is pretty damn wonky. Steam at least sets a notification off. Not sure if you get an email or anything. Also not sure what Origin does

Yeah, it's not fair to just pull games and not let the customer know why so they can at least try to get their money back from the seller.

Omega · Jan 26, 2015

CozMick said:
Good, how dare people get digital content cheaper from an illegitimate vendor when model citizens like myself buy from official vendors for extortionate prices.

.

yeah fuck those devs!

It seems likely that they were originally obtained from our store using stolen credit card information. Keys were then sold through a handful of questionable sites to people using legitimate credit cards. The owner of the stolen credit card ultimately disputed the charge and we lost the sale. In total, we lose ~$45 per transaction of this kind, due to the charge-back fee (~$22 fee + $25 game price). Meanwhile, the unauthorized key reseller kept the money from the player who ultimately received the bad key.

traube said:
Unknown Worlds (Natural Selection, Subnautica) also had a post on this topic that showed how they got screwed by unauthorized key resellers, two years ago.
http://unknownworlds.com/blog/beware-shady-key-resellers-and-discount-steam-keys/

Polk · Jan 26, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
If you really want more stores, I would go with resources that already check legitimate places, such as Enhanced Steam...

Why are those sites I've never heard of from a service I've never used are more legitimate than site my favorite Youtuber/Twitcher advertise?

I'm using both Enchanted Steam Steam and Is there a deal but most people aren't.

Seagoon · Jan 26, 2015

G2A sounds reasonably shady, but Ubisoft are not without blame in all of this. The very least they could do is notify their users that a title has been removed from their account. It shouldn't be up to the user to contact Ubisoft.

Also if Ubisoft are serious about stamping out key resellers, they should look at their pricing models for markets outside of the US. Far Cry 4, The Crew etc. cost USD $74.95 for AU/NZ users. Admittedly it's not as extortionate as 2K who regularly charge $89.99 for most new releases, but still. If the pricing for digital games was fair, I think the prevalence of these sites would reduce greatly.

Doctoglethorpe · Jan 26, 2015

Costia said:
They are doing something illegal. They are reselling keys that were bought with stolen credit cards.
Not only that the publishers don't get the money, in the case of Natural Selection 2 the devs had to pay 30k$ for the chargebacks.

Well okay then. I said "if" for a reason, and that's it.

CosmicQueso said:
So you don't understand what's happening. Cool.

You could have actually contributed by clarifying what is happening (see other post I responded too), but thanks anyways.

TheWorthyEdge · Jan 26, 2015

Mr.Miyamoto said:
Oh, geez. I've been buying 90% of my PC games there because of the super weak Canadian dollar and how everything digital costs like $15-$20 more than it should now.

Edit: My games still seem to be fine, this is troubling news for what I thought was just a site with good deals. They would always save me like $20, but it never felt illegally cheap, or cheap enough for me to think something was wrong.

Goddammit Miyamoto!

Miguel81 · Jan 26, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
Not at all. I just stick with what is reasonably priced and I know are trustworthy: Steam, Humble, GMG, GoG, Amazon

If you really want more stores, I would go with resources that already check legitimate places, such as Enhanced Steam by GAFs own JShackles, which uses http://isthereanydeal.com/

They check pricing and deals via the following reputable stores, while Enhanced Steam automatically forwards that info to respective store pages for you. The stores they check are:

http://i.imgur.com/Ek2MX3t.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

Just wanted to mention that Gamesrocket have a habit of asking for ID/Passport photocopies after purchases made on their site(usually after they charge for them) before they'll provide with the games/keys. Even though they are considered "legit", JShackles doesn't list it under Enhanced Steam due to this.

dani_dc · Jan 26, 2015

pahamrick said:
They just pull it, no contact, no warning, no nothing.

Now this I can't agree with. Warning the consumers about it is the least they can do.

Nzyme32 · Jan 26, 2015

dante81 said:
Just wanted to mention that Gamesrocket have a habit of asking for ID/Passport photocopies after purchases made on their site(usually after they charge for them) before they'll provide with the games/keys. Even though they are considered "legit", JShackles doesn't list it under Enhanced Steam due to this.

Even I didn't know that one. Good shout

SURGEdude · Jan 26, 2015

On one hand Ubi has the right to do this. But on the other hand they should at least inform people why they lost the game and educate them on the dangers of buying keys from certain sites. In the end their response is totally legal but just another reminder of their contempt for people who want to give them money.

Mononoke · Jan 26, 2015

SURGEdude said:
On one hand Ubi has the right to do this. But on the other hand they should at least inform people why they lost the game and educate them on the dangers of buying keys from certain sites. In the end their response is totally legal but just another reminder of their contempt for people who want to give them money.

Yep. Even if it turns out, all banned keys were stolen (never paid for), the very least, they could inform these people what happened, and warn them for future purchases.

I still think maybe Ubisoft should have announced a new policy (or made it clear) and threw up a warning to everyone that they WILL ban an future keys bought from X site from this day forth. I think, that would have been a better solution overall. I think they risk making a lot of people angry.

Even though again, I do feel that, the only person they should be mad at is the site selling the keys, and not ubisoft. Again, Ubisoft has no obligation to honor stolen keys. I personally want some more clarification on this. Because if some of these keys WERE paid for legitimately and Ubisoft got money for it, then I think the person that bought the key has every right to sell that key to someone else (the license only is active to ONE person when it's activated). So I'm still curious to what depths are Ubisoft banning keys. If it's only stolen ones (ie. keys they never received money for)...okay. But even if it is just that, give people a warning. Explain what at least happened.

Condom · Jan 26, 2015

Looks like theft to me. 'Unauthorized' my ass, you deliver the keys and from then on it's a free market. That's how stuff works Ubisoft.

Mad Season · Jan 26, 2015

pahamrick said:
They just pull it, no contact, no warning, no nothing.

That's messed up

Mononoke · Jan 26, 2015

Mad Season said:
That's messed up

It's bad form. Even if you take the stance that, consumers should have known it was stolen (the too good to be true rule, or the fact that they took a risk buying on a second hand market), it's not worth the risk alienating and pissing off that many people, seeing as some of them could have thought they were legit (given that so many streamers advertised the site).

All of these people were just as much the victims. If that site is really stealing their keys, then essentially all of these people have been conned out of their money. And that site that did the con, spent money sponsoring legit streams, to make people think the site was legit. So I'm not so sure I myself, would default to the position that people should have known better.

And certainly as a company, I don't think it's wise to take that stance either. They are I. Not going to get the people they deactivated to turn around and re-buy the game. II. And they risk losing them as future customers (given how they took away their games with no warning or explanation).

Even if we all agree that Ubisoft is within the right to ban stolen keys, IMO they still botched this badly.

pahamrick · Jan 26, 2015

Mononoke said:
Even if we all agree that Ubisoft is within the right to ban stolen keys, IMO they still botched this badly.

It would be nice if we got some official word as to why, if they were stolen keys, or what have you.

I agree though, regardless of being within their rights they did this the worst possible way. Ideally, I'd like to have seen them send an email prior to the key banning explaining what was about to happen, why it was going to happen, what games are affected, followed by a 25-50% off coupon to purchase those games direct from uplay.

But that's me.

CrackaF3tt · Jan 26, 2015

I once bought a steam key off ebay. Turns out the key was originally bought with a stolen card. So my account was locked till they investigated it. I was pissed that my whole account was locked. After a few days they unlocked it and said the game would be removed. I heard that's what they do now. I wasn't pissed at valve for taking my game. More pissed that they would lock the whole account down.

uncredited male · Jan 26, 2015

Ubisoft should send out emails to the accounts they pulled games from. Maybe it could be used as leverage to get a replacement key or a refund from some of the larger resellers like G2A.

JaseC · Jan 26, 2015

CrackaF3tt said:
I once bought a steam key off ebay. Turns out the key was originally bought with a stolen card. So my account was locked till they investigated it. I was pissed that my whole account was locked. After a few days they unlocked it and said the game would be removed. I heard that's what they do now. I wasn't pissed at valve for taking my game. More pissed that they would lock the whole account down.

Valve stopped banning/locking out/suspending accounts three years ago now. You can even file a chargeback and still play your pre-existing games.

pa22word · Jan 26, 2015

Anyone buying on g2a knows or should know (if you're buying a game at 66% off list price prerelease and your bullshit detector doesn't go off, you're a moron) the risks involved. That includes getting your key revoked because it was stolen.

Don't buy from shady sources and you won't deal with shade thrown on you by official sources when they catch up with you. End of discussion, really. If you want to bitch about prices being to high, go ahead, but that doesn't give you the right to knowingly game the system and be free of any consequences of doing so. Period.

No sympathy at all for the people getting burned by this. I just don't have it in me to give a fuck considering they bought it from said source either out of idiocy or blatant disregard for the legality of doing so.

Mononoke · Jan 26, 2015

pa22word said:
Anyone buying on g2a knows or should know (if you're buying a game at 66% off list price prerelease and your bullshit detector doesn't go off, you're a moron) the risks involved. That includes getting your key revoked because it was stolen.

Don't buy from shady sources and you won't deal with shade thrown on you by official sources when they catch up with you. End of discussion, really. If you want to bitch about prices being to high, go ahead, but that doesn't give you the right to knowingly game the system and be free of any consequences of doing so. Period.

No sympathy at all for the people getting burned by this. I just don't have it in me to give a fuck considering they bought it from said source either out of idiocy or blatant disregard for the legality of doing so.

While i agree that responsibility ultimately lies on the Consumer, this site was predatory in how they spent money supporting streams, and legit streams advertising them. So these streams also play a role in this con, for not better checking the legitimacy of the their support before advertising them to their viewers.

Anyways, even if you feel that way, I'm not so sure it makes sense for Ubisoft to take that stance towards these consumers. Or that it makes sense to not warn them or explain why their games are suddenly being removed. The way I see it, let's say 100% of the keys banned were stolen. (We still don't know this btw, as Ubisoft has not clarified. If this is a case of legitimate keys being bought, and then being sold to someone else, that is a whole different issue). But assuming these are all stolen, it's still bad form to ban thousands of games across the board from people without an explanation.

These people are I. Not going to turn around buy the game again (especially not at full price). II. Could risk pissing them off, so they never buy an Ubisoft game again. Again, even if you take the hard line stance of having zero sympathy for them, and not caring since the keys were stolen. I still question whether Ubisofts approach is practical in the longer term (or if it can just hurt them even more).

Zafir · Jan 26, 2015

pa22word said:
Anyone buying on g2a knows or should know (if you're buying a game at 66% off list price prerelease and your bullshit detector doesn't go off, you're a moron) the risks involved. That includes getting your key revoked because it was stolen.

Don't buy from shady sources and you won't deal with shade thrown on you by official sources when they catch up with you. End of discussion, really. If you want to bitch about prices being to high, go ahead, but that doesn't give you the right to knowingly game the system and be free of any consequences of doing so. Period.

No sympathy at all for the people getting burned by this. I just don't have it in me to give a fuck considering they bought it from said source either out of idiocy or blatant disregard for the legality of doing so.

That's rather harsh. You do realise some of these deals were actually sponsored by Paypal, and linked to on the Paypal website?

I'm not surprised some people didn't realise under those circumstances. Between that and streams/tournaments being sponsored by key resellers. Anyone who doesn't actively follow the industry could easily be tricked into thinking they are legit.

Necromanti · Jan 26, 2015

Does Ubisoft have a list of their authorized retailers?

pahamrick · Jan 26, 2015

Zafir said:
That's rather harsh. You do realise some of these deals were actually sponsored by Paypal, and linked to on the Paypal website?

I'm not surprised some people didn't realise under those circumstances. Between that and streams/tournaments being sponsored by key resellers. Anyone who doesn't actively follow the industry could easily be tricked into thinking they are legit.

Or like my friend, who tried to do me a solid and hook me up with a copy of AC4+Season Pass as a present, for a price around the same thing that steam had it on sale for after the sale ended. But hey, he should have known $15 was a crazy price that was so not legit.

skullmuffins · Jan 26, 2015

Wow, people really like to take every opportunity to hate on Ubisoft. If you bought a key from a third-party reseller and it later gets revoked because the key was, say, originally purchased using a stolen credit card... your beef should be entirely with the reseller that sold you a bunk key. Go yell at them and demand a replacement or a refund. Ubisoft (or any game company) shouldn't be obligated to honor stolen keys. Seems pretty obvious.

Edit: if you don't revoke stolen keys, you're not really doing much to discourage the practice. Dudes who got cheap games from shady sites are going to keep buying from those shady sites. They'll tell their friends about all the good deals they got, thereby encouraging more people to buy from shady sites, which gives those sellers a reason to keep on stealing keys. I don't see how you can stop people from buying stuff with stolen credit cards or doing chargebacks after the fact unless you just don't sell keys at all. I'm sure people will be happy to purchase all their games from the uplay store.

JayhawkerStL · Jan 26, 2015

scitek said:
Yeah, it's not fair to just pull games and not let the customer know why so they can at least try to get their money back from the seller.

If the game goes missing, wouldn't they contact the seller anyway?

SirJackDaniels · Jan 26, 2015

Fantastapotamus said:
I know for a fact that this is also a law in Austria. Otherwise everything you say is corret.

You are in good faith if you can reasonably believe that the goods are able to sell at such a price.

For example a new game can cost 20 - 30 (G2A prices) but is shady when sold for 5
The judge will check marketprices across the market and will conclude that the consumer had every right to reasonably believe that it was a fair price.

Fantastapotamus said:
They don't. That's the point. This entire thread is about how many keys on G2A are straight up stolen.

Since im at the office i can confirm that this is false. Games i supplied to G2A / Kinguin and bought directly from Ubisoft are banned as well.

jellies_two · Jan 26, 2015

"jackfrags - YouTube
www.youtube.com/user/jackfrags
Mobile-friendly - It begins the day the game was released... Enjoy! CHEAP GAMES: http://www. ********/r/jackfrags - Use the code frags ..."

will the streamers cancel their advertorials for g2a now? and warn their audience?

dex3108 · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
Since im at the office i can confirm that this is false. Games i supplied to G2A / Kinguin and bought directly from Ubisoft are banned as well.

Can you provide more info how you bought keys and where exactly?

SirJackDaniels · Jan 26, 2015

dex3108 said:
Can you provide more info how you bought keys and where exactly?

I just place an order at Ubisoft. I do millions in revenue each year for Ubisoft, so i buy directly from the source.
I buy the boxed games. Ubisoft ships me the boxed games. I deliver the games to retailers (Amazon, G2A, Kinguin, FNAC, Media Markt etc). G2A / Kinguin sell the scanned codes out of the retail box.

I have seen a transcript of a portugese customer with a banned code of Far Cry 4, a game i supplied to one of the key retailers.

The question that arises here:

What power does Ubisoft have to deactivate a product, that has been released in the EU economic market by themselves, and legitimately been sold to consumers within other EU countries.
The product was not illegal. Its pretty black & white based on the EU regulations for freedom of goods. Ubisoft is handling illegally, for certain on the games i sold.

nibblemonkey · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
I just place an order at Ubisoft. I do millions in revenue each year for Ubisoft, so i buy directly from the source.
I buy the boxed games. Ubisoft ships me the boxed games. I deliver the games to retailers (Amazon, G2A, Kinguin, FNAC, Media Markt etc). G2A / Kinguin sell the scanned codes out of the retail box.

I have seen a transcript of a portugese customer with a banned code of Far Cry 4, a game i supplied to one of the key retailers.

The question that arises here:

What power does Ubisoft have to deactivate a product, that has been released in the EU economic market by themselves, and legitimately been sold to consumers within other EU countries.
The product was not illegal. Its pretty black & white based on the EU regulations for freedom of goods. Ubisoft is handling illegally, for certain on the games i sold.

Are you aware of any way for Ubisoft to tell the difference between the codes sold by G2A and the boxed copes Amazon sells?

Palette Swap · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
I just place an order at Ubisoft. I do millions in revenue each year for Ubisoft, so i buy directly from the source.
I buy the boxed games. Ubisoft ships me the boxed games. I deliver the games to retailers (Amazon, G2A, Kinguin, FNAC, Media Markt etc). G2A / Kinguin sell the scanned codes out of the retail box.

I have seen a transcript of a portugese customer with a banned code of Far Cry 4, a game i supplied to one of the key retailers.

The question that arises here:

What power does Ubisoft have to deactivate a product, that has been released in the EU economic market by themselves, and legitimately been sold to consumers within other EU countries.
The product was not illegal. Its pretty black & white based on the EU regulations for freedom of goods. Ubisoft is handling illegally, for certain on the games i sold.

In that case, what baffles me is how Ubi would even know which keys to deactivate in the first place as from your description, they wouldn't be able to differentiate keys bought from you from keys found on a retail product.

Ivory Samoan · Jan 26, 2015

iNvid02 said:
thats scummy, they should leave whats already been done but prevent future activations if they want to clamp down on this stuff

This about sums up my thoughts on this... make a public announcement that's loud enough so anyone buying after that, gets their keys cancelled - not just a mass wipe (which is indeed, a bit scummy).

milkybar1983 · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
I just place an order at Ubisoft. I do millions in revenue each year for Ubisoft, so i buy directly from the source.
I buy the boxed games. Ubisoft ships me the boxed games. I deliver the games to retailers (Amazon, G2A, Kinguin, FNAC, Media Markt etc). G2A / Kinguin sell the scanned codes out of the retail box.

I have seen a transcript of a portugese customer with a banned code of Far Cry 4, a game i supplied to one of the key retailers.

The question that arises here:

What power does Ubisoft have to deactivate a product, that has been released in the EU economic market by themselves, and legitimately been sold to consumers within other EU countries.
The product was not illegal. Its pretty black & white based on the EU regulations for freedom of goods. Ubisoft is handling illegally, for certain on the games i sold.

What do you do with all the boxed copies once the codes have been sent and used??

SirJackDaniels · Jan 26, 2015

nibblemonkey said:
Are you aware of any way for Ubisoft to tell the difference between the codes sold by G2A and the boxed copes Amazon sells?

Exactly. There is no way Ubisoft could differentiate between a boxed copy retail sale or a keycode sale. You only need the key.

I will let you know how things will develop.

SirJackDaniels · Jan 26, 2015

milkybar1983 said:
What do you do with all the boxed copies once the codes have been sent and used??

It actually is illegal to sell strip codes from PC retail games according to our contract for copyright reasons. You have to sell the retail games as is.
But that is a contractual obligation between me and ubisoft. Not between key sellers and the publisher.

So i don't strip the boxed games

nibblemonkey · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
It actually is illegal to sell strip codes from PC retail games according to our contract for copyright reasons. You have to sell the retail games as is.
But that is a contractual obligation between me and ubisoft. Not between key sellers and the publisher.

So i don't strip the boxed games

I wasn't aware that was illegal, can't see what the harm is though considering Ubisoft wouldn't get any less money then they would if the box is kept with the code

Jord · Jan 26, 2015

Far Cry 4 has been removed from my library, brilliant. I got my key from G2A for around £24, so cheap but not dirt cheap. So now I have to go through the hassle of contacting Ubi support, then attempting to get a refund/replacement from G2A but I shall not hold my breath.

I understand the reasoning behind them removing the keys if they were bought with a stolen credit card, but come on - take legal action against the reseller, I have been ripped off by them unknowingly, but I have to suffer by losing the game I paid for?

EDIT: G2A website seems to be offline. Great.

dex3108 · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
It actually is illegal to sell strip codes from PC retail games according to our contract for copyright reasons. You have to sell the retail games as is.
But that is a contractual obligation between me and ubisoft. Not between key sellers and the publisher.

So i don't strip the boxed games

That is tricky part is it illegal to sell keys from retail boxes in EU or you need to sell whole product? How is this regulated by law?

SirJackDaniels · Jan 26, 2015

dex3108 said:
That is tricky part is it illegal to sell keys from retail boxes in EU or you need to sell whole product? How is this regulated by law?

I really don't know the technical details but it isn't allowed by copyright law.
I have to sell "as is".

Also EA is taking major steps in the war against key sellers. It seems like they want to ban out traditional boxed PC retail and are looking at the POSA system.

ElFly · Jan 26, 2015

Yeah, gotta take the side of the corporation on this one. Ubi is right on disabling those keys. Should really make more clear on the reason, like a message saying "this game was activated with a key bought with an stolen credit card" or something.

Then again, Ubisoft should be a little more proactive and disable the key the moment the charge back hits them, instead of it being a mass ban.

e: um hadn't read the jack daniel posts.

Well maybe ubisoft can demand a scan of the box/activation code. The gamasutra post below still means ubi is in the right. Maybe we need more details.

madjoki · Jan 26, 2015

dex3108 said:
That is tricky part is it illegal to sell keys from retail boxes in EU or you need to sell whole product? How is this regulated by law?

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/Konstant...man_Court_Key_Selling_infringes_Copyright.php

dex3108 · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
I really don't know the technical details but it isn't allowed by copyright law.
I have to sell "as is".

Also EA is taking major steps in the war against key sellers. It seems like they want to ban out traditional boxed PC retail and are looking at the POSA system.

You did your part right so you are covered, but if G2A sold only key from retail box and there is law that prevents that Ubisoft has right to remove that key. Now there is chance that some keys were flagged by mistake we still don't know what happened behind scene.

madjoki said:
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/Konstant...man_Court_Key_Selling_infringes_Copyright.php

And there it is.

_machine · Jan 26, 2015

SirJackDaniels said:
I have seen a transcript of a portugese customer with a banned code of Far Cry 4, a game i supplied to one of the key retailers.

Was that key supplied by you to be sold directly as a G2A key or was it bought from G2A, but through a 3rd party seller which G2A doesn't take responsiblity.

Because, the thing here is that they are not banning all G2A keys (even though they are not authorized seller), but keys that seem to be bought from the G2A marketplace, which means that the keys are more likely illegal (usually from Eastern Europe, sold at less than what G2A themselves sell/suggest).

Joni · Jan 26, 2015

Doctoglethorpe said:
If these companies were really doing something illegal, like generating fake keys for profit, they should be shut down and investigated. Sincet hey aren't, that tells me they have legitimate codes and are just reselling them under the table, which isn't illigal. Ubisoft may not like it, but boo fuckign hoo.

That is like saying buying drugs from someone isn't wrong because he isn't in prison and since he isn't in prison, he is not doing anything wrong and you shouldn't be punished for buying from him.

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