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The falsity of religion & God(s) is so self evident, m'lady

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A

ActuallyHulk

Banned
beast786 said:
How did you came to this conclusion?
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It's quite simple. Think of God as a programmer and our universe as the program. Everything has to have a perfect set of rules but they don't apply to him because he exists outside of it. We know only the program and thus are unable to comprehend anything outside of it, nor do we have the tools we need to look beyond what were are given.

Time, space, and everything else are meaningless to a being that exists outside of them.
 
I

injurai

Banned
BY THE POWER OF RA

baptazia-o.gif
 
T

Trouble

Banned
ActuallyHulk said:
It's quite simple. Think of God as a programmer and our universe as the program. Everything has to have a perfect set of rules but they don't apply to him because he exists outside of it. We know only the program and thus are unable to comprehend anything outside of it, nor do we have the tools we need to look beyond what were are given.

Time, space, and everything else are meaningless to a being that exists outside of them.
Click to expand...

In this scenario does god have the ability to break the rules within his own creation when it suits him?
 
A

ActuallyHulk

Banned
Trouble said:
In this scenario does god have the ability to break the rules within his own creation when it suits him?
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Yes and he has the power to keep it from affecting anything else as well. Five loaves and two fishes. Transfiguration on the mountain. The rules are extremely important for us, I'm only saying he isn't bound by them. I just think of it all as being somewhat like The Matrix where people who exist outside of it can do all these things and are not beholden to the rules within. Haven't seen them in years though so if I ever give it a rewatch that might change.
 
Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
ActuallyHulk said:
Yes and he has the power to keep it from affecting anything else as well. Five loaves and two fishes. Transfiguration on the mountain. The rules are extremely important for us, I'm only saying he isn't bound by them. I just think of it all as being somewhat like The Matrix where people who exist outside of it can do all these things and are not beholden to the rules within. Haven't seen them in years though so if I ever give it a rewatch that might change.
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aaaHLTc.gif
 
A

Africanus

Member
Sch1sm said:
Misinterpretation clearly. I never once said it made a difference. I said that because religion spread by forced means doesn't mean nonbelievers now have some right to say, "wow, can't prove god exists and it's all contradictory so you shouldn't believe in one. Science says so, too, don't be so daft." There's a difference. That's not disproving anything, it's just as backwards as the spread of Abrahamic religions.
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I see your point. Even in disagreements, people should attempt to be civil to one another.
 
B

BeatResetsTheWorld

Banned
So OP where's the proof that god(s) don't exist? And when I say gods, I don't necessarily mean the ones portrayed in religions, I mean the idea of an omnipotent and omniscient being. I have yet to see any proof that such a thing doesn't exist or can't exist.
 
J

johnsavage

Member
Wow OP way to just shit on billions of people with an argument no one has ever thought of before.

Where do some atheists find these super high horses where they think they can tell people that believe in something so strongly that they're wrong?

Urgh I left reddit to get away from r/atheism.
 
O

orochi91

Member
Nah, I'm convinced there is a higher power guiding the intricacies of our universe.

Too much order for it all to have been a coincidence/random.

I find it a comforting thought, to be honest.

God is real.

Cloud Strife said:
OP still hasn't explained why love transcends all the dimensions.

Checkmate, see you next time!
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Lmao.

Love it.
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
orochi91 said:
Nah, I'm convinced there is a higher power guiding the intricacies of our universe.

Too much order for it all to have been a coincidence/random.

I find it a comforting thought, to be honest.

God is real.
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Guiding what intricacies? If you're talking about universal creation then that's one thing but that shouldn't be "comforting" since such a deity (probably) wouldn't care about you or anything you do.
 
C

Cloud Strife

Member
johnsavage said:
Wow OP way to just shit on billions of people with a few an argument no one has ever thought of before.

Where do some atheists find these super high horses where they think they can tell people that believe in something so strongly that they're wrong?

Urgh I left reddit to get away from r/atheism.
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Agreed. In the big scheme of things someone who thinks they know a little less than nothing doesn't warrant such douchebagelry.
 
U

umop_3pisdn

Member
Dryk said:
The problem with that is that if something exists outside of science it by definition cannot have perceivable effects on the material world, and therefore is completely pointless from a practical standpoint
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This is true. For some people that has an appeal though, like Wittgenstein disagreeing with Russell about the possibility of an invisible elephant being in the room. It seems like a waste of time or like the pursuit of crackpots if you're scientifically minded, but if you're not particularly concerned with science but are rather trying to project yourself through intuition beyond the limits of understanding, it does make sense. Someone like Russell would say that's pointless, but someone like Wittgenstein would probably say that something is gained for trying. I think it's just a valid difference in perspective or intellectual values, but I think you've identified the crux.
 
A

AnathemicOne

Banned
ActuallyHulk said:
It's quite simple. Think of God as a programmer and our universe as the program. Everything has to have a perfect set of rules but they don't apply to him because he exists outside of it. We know only the program and thus are unable to comprehend anything outside of it, nor do we have the tools we need to look beyond what were are given.

Time, space, and everything else are meaningless to a being that exists outside of them.
Click to expand...

As a Computer Information Systems major, this made me facepalm so hard. You do realize the fundamentals of Computer Science are based on real world Physics and Mathematics yes?
 
S

Siegcram

Member
orochi91 said:
Nah, I'm convinced there is a higher power guiding the intricacies of our universe.

Too much order for it all to have been a coincidence/random.
Click to expand...
Depending on scale, everything appears to be either in order or chaotic. That doesn't indicate anything.
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
ponpo said:
Guiding what intricacies? If you're talking about universal creation then that's one thing but that shouldn't be "comforting" since such a deity (probably) wouldn't care about you or anything you do.
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Hey, I beat Uncharted 1 on Crushing. I know such a deity's impressed with that shit.
 
D

dabig2

Member
"Only fools say in their heart, there is no God"

Said to me by every self-confident Christian and probably uttered by a lot of Christians here when they were taught this in bible school (I know I was indoctrinated to learn this verse), yet why is the OP so mocked for his statement? It's just the reverse.
 
T

TimorousPanda

Member
Africanus said:
Your definitions are confused. You are an atheist and agnostic, not one or the other. So I suppose you should begin avoiding yourself? (If at all possible).
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As I understand it, you cannot be both an atheist and agnostic.

An atheist firmly believes that there is no god.

An agnostic claims to have no knowledge of anything beyond the physical realm. Without this knowledge, they can't believe in either the existence or the nonexistence of god.
 
S

Siegcram

Member
dabig2 said:
"Only fools say in their heart, there is no God"

Said to me by every self-confident Christian and probably uttered by a lot of Christians here when they were taught this in bible school (I know I was indoctrinated to learn this verse), yet why is the OP so mocked for his statement? It's just the reverse.
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Because both sentiments are shit.
 
T

Trouble

Banned
TimorousPanda said:
As I understand it, you cannot be both an atheist and agnostic.

An atheist firmly believes that there is no god.

An agnostic claims to have no knowledge of anything beyond the physical realm. Without this knowledge, they can't believe in either the existence or the nonexistence of god.
Click to expand...

The general term 'atheist' is commonly used for all variations of non-belief. You're better off using 'hard atheist' or 'gnostic atheist' than trying to convince everyone else to use different words.
 
A

AnathemicOne

Banned
Trouble said:
The general term 'atheist' is commonly used for all variation. You're better off using 'hard atheist' or 'gnostic atheist' than trying to convince everyone else to use different words.
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Words are funny, I tend to define atheist based on how it's spelled: a-theist "without god." I.E. One does not believe in god and/or gods, plain and simple.
 
F

FUME5

Member
I'll be laughing at you from Techno-valhalla, or wherever the hell my trans dimensional self ends up after this meatsack is done.
 
H

happypup

Member
dabig2 said:
"Only fools say in their heart, there is no God"

Said to me by every self-confident Christian and probably uttered by a lot of Christians here when they were taught this in bible school (I know I was indoctrinated to learn this verse), yet why is the OP so mocked for his statement? It's just the reverse.
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Because claiming certain knowledge of that which is untested and un-testable is foolish. That means both that statement and it's antithesis are true.

This is where pragmatism comes into play, but on that note; historically, and quite possibly currently I think the belief in a God does more good than harm. At least in aggregate.
 
F

freakzilla149

Banned
TimorousPanda said:
As I understand it, you cannot be both an atheist and agnostic.

An atheist firmly believes that there is no god.

An agnostic claims to have no knowledge of anything beyond the physical realm. Without this knowledge, they can't believe in either the existence or the nonexistence of god.
Click to expand...

There are degrees of atheism. Some are quite confident that there is no god. Others, like me, don't claim with absolute certainty but are confident enough not to bother with the agnostic label.
 
D

Darknight34

Member
AnathemicOne said:
As a Computer Information Systems major, this made me facepalm so hard. You do realize the fundamentals of Computer Science are based on real world Physics and Mathematics yes?
Click to expand...

Is it that hard to comprehend his statement? Just because someone creates the program doesn't mean he is bound by the limitations of it. You're thinking inside the box.
 
I

injurai

Banned
TimorousPanda said:
As I understand it, you cannot be both an atheist and agnostic.

An atheist firmly believes that there is no god.

An agnostic claims to have no knowledge of anything beyond the physical realm. Without this knowledge, they can't believe in either the existence or the nonexistence of god.
Click to expand...

No. An agnostic believes that they can't say one way or they other. They remain open to either possibility but remain ambivalent because as far as they can see no conclusion can be made either way.

An Atheist rejects belief in theistic gods on account of lacking evidence. It does not deny the possibility of a deistic entity, but the understanding is that if one existed it would have no bearing on life anyways. So to proceed is to proceed as if there were none, because none influence the observable universe in which we can experience and which we have come from.
 
A

AnathemicOne

Banned
Darknight34 said:
Is it that hard to comprehend his statement? Just because someone creates the program doesn't mean he is bound by the limitations of it. You're thinking inside the box.
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A programmer is bound to the language/code pre-defined to communicate with the computer. Sure a programmer can do a great myriad of operations within code but that code is written under a pre-defined set of rules IE the programming language which in turn is bound to strict communications with the computer via on/off signals IE 0's and 1's.

In short, a Programmer can exist outside of the Program but is still bound by logic (Math and Physics) that permeates both the "reality" the Programmer is in and within the Program itself.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
AnathemicOne said:
A programmer is bound to the language/code pre-defined to communicate with the computer. Sure a programmer can do a great myriad of operations within code but that code is written under a pre-defined set of rules IE the programming language which in turn is bound to strict communications with the computer via on/off signals IE 0's and 1's.

In short, a Programmer can exist outside of the Program but is still bound by logic (Math and Physics) that permeates both the "reality" the Programmer is in and within the Program itself.
Click to expand...

How do you know the physics we experience in this world are actually the only possible ones? I mean, in Mushroom kingdom a fat plumber can make jumps couple meters high and it's normal physics there. If we're living inside a programmed reality all the physics here can be completely arbitary, decided on the pure whin of the programmer.
 
F

freakzilla149

Banned
Log4Girlz said:
Saying you know for certain there are no purple leprechauns is indeed foolish.
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I did make the OP a little more inflammatory and obtuse than necessary but this is at the heart of what I mean.

The claims of almost every religion is as ridiculous as this example. It is quite obvious to everyone that there are no purple leprechauns but somehow it's ok to keep insisting that there is a god. Different groups of people give him/her attributes, each more unbelievable than the last, and when you question it you're faced with a barrage of wishy washy rubbish, and in this instance mocking fedora jokes.
 
A

AnathemicOne

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
How do you know the physics we experience in this world are actually the only possible ones? I mean, in Mushroom kingdom a fat plumber can make jumps couple meters high and it's normal physics there. If we're living inside a programmed reality all the physics here can be completely arbitary, decided on the pure whin of the programmer.
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The fat plumber and all denizens within the mushroom kingdom are not aware/sentient now are they, atleast I don't believe that's how Nintendo intended a children's video game to be.

Edit: I appreciate the Matrix/Plato's Allegory of the Cave metaphor you're trying to envision here, but as we are beings who are aware/sentient of our existence, while it is fun to entertain the idea of existing inside a premeditated world, it is ultimately irrelevant as of now as current science is still under the process of understanding our current reality, and I'd like to disregard fantastical notions that is the Christian faith.
 
F

Fink

Member
Yagharek said:
The phrasing of your statement implies very strongly that you 'know' something exists and know enough about it to assign it a gender, of all things.
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Sorry my Catholic school upbringing is showing, that's just an old habit. I almost capitalized those pronouns too.

Also, my implication with that statement is "I know that I don't know".
 
N

not psycho

Member
There is no God because there is no anything. Once you realize that causality and randomness are the only two concepts which could explain anything, you realize that nothing really has to exist. An imagined world would be just as real as a world which exists; it could be considered subject to the exact same factors that rule an existing world. Since the difference is meaningless, existence is a meaningless concept. We are nothing but the dreams of abstract ideas. Platonic forms with delusions of grandeur.

Because there is nothing, there is God. As an abstract idea, he is just as real as any of us.
 
T

TimorousPanda

Member
injurai said:
No. An agnostic believes that they can't say one way or they other. They remain open to either possibility but remain ambivalent because as far as they can see no conclusion can be made either way.

An Atheist rejects belief in theistic gods on account of lacking evidence. It does not deny the possibility of a deistic entity, but the understanding is that if one existed it would have no bearing on life anyways. So to proceed is to proceed as if there were none, because none influence the observable universe in which we can experience and which we have come from.
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Ah, ok. Thanks for the info.

Just to be clear, can someone be both agnostic and atheist? As I now understand it, an atheist rejects the belief whereas an agnostic just does not believe.
 
S

soul creator

Member
johnsavage said:
Wow OP way to just shit on billions of people with an argument no one has ever thought of before.

Where do some atheists find these super high horses where they think they can tell people that believe in something so strongly that they're wrong?

Urgh I left reddit to get away from r/atheism.
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Technically, every single person "shits on billions of people" when it comes to their belief (or lack thereof) in God.

Every Christian thinks Muslims and Jews are wrong about god(s). Every Muslim thinks Christians and Jews are wrong about god(s). Every Jewish person thinks Muslims and Christians are wrong about god(s). Every Buddhist thinks Christians, Muslims, and Jews are wrong about god(s). Every atheist thinks everyone else is wrong about god(s).

Taking any sort of stance on god means you think every other person's "strong belief" is probably wrong. That's kind of the nature of disagreement over mutually incompatible ideas. Now sure, it doesn't mean we have to be mean about it or whatever, but this idea that because someone thinks they're right means they're "shitting on people" seems kinda odd. We all do this.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
AnathemicOne said:
The fat plumber and all denizens within the mushroom kingdom are not aware/sentient now are they, atleast I don't believe that's how Nintendo intended a children's video game to be.
.
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Sentience is going into supernatural/God territory a bit. We might just as well be just fleshmachines, who deluded themselves into thinking we're sentient or have any free will. An NPC in a game that runs on AI also propably doesn't realize he's not sentient. We might just have much more sophisticated routines.
 
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