• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

BKK
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:38 PM)
This thread is for the discussion and collation of sales data for retro systems. Hopefully we'll eventually have lots of data to fill the first few posts.

There are generally four different ways of recording console sales;

Production Shipments

This was the preferred method of Sony (and possibly other electronics companies such as Matsushita/Panasonic) until March 2007 when they switched to Consolidated Shipments. These are shipments of consoles from the factory, but not necessarily to subsidiaries, distributors, or retailers. They could be stored in warehouses for example. Whilst this method of accounting is accurate, it may not necessarily reflect demand at the time, especially for "failed" systems where large stocks of unsold hardware eventually gets liquidated through large discounts quite some time after manufacture.

Non-consolidated Shipments

This was the preferred method of Nintendo and Sega for their overseas sales until March 2000 and March 2001 respectively. These are shipments of consoles to subsidiaries and distributors, but not necessarily retailers. This method of accounting is also accurate, and is a reflection of demand at the time from subsidiaries and distributors. For more details of non-consolidated and consolidated shipments see here.

Consolidated Shipments / Sell In

This is the current standard, adopted by Nintendo, Sega, and Sony from April 2000, 2001, and 2007 respectively. Consolidated shipments, also known as "Sell in" are shipments from subsidiaries and distributors to retailers. As with the other accounting methods mentioned above this offers accuracy, but is also a better reflection of demand at the time as it directly reflects retail demand.

Retail Sales / Sell Through

These are sales from retail to consumers, and theoretically offer the best reflection of demand at the time. Unfortunately these are estimations for the whole market made by various retail tracking firms (and sometimes the manufacturers themselves). Whilst achieving a decent level of accuracy today this hasn't always been the case in the past, where they may have missed large parts of the market. For example GfK Lek Trak in the UK were a consumer goods tracker who didn't cover specialist game stores or toy stores. Conversely the American NPD Group's Toy Retail Sales Tracking Service (TRSTS) tracked toys, and may not have had coverage of consumer electronic retailers. These trackers also only tracked a limited number of retailers, missing large players such as Toys R Us and Walmart. For these reasons this method of tracking is not considered accurate.

For the purposes of this thread shipments will be considered as "official" numbers. Whilst the three different shipment accounting methods can result in somewhat different numbers at any moment in time, they should all eventually converge on the same lifetime number. One rare exception is when excess stock is unable to be liquidated and is destroyed. In this specific case production shipments would be higher than either non-consolidated or consolidated shipments. Where more than one shipment method is available the priority will be "Consolidated Shipments" > "Non-consolidated Shipments" > "Production Shipments" to better reflect demand at the time.

LTDs (Units, millions)

Nintendo;

Code:

Virtual Boy

     9603  
JP   0.14  
IN   0.63
WW   0.77
See here for others.

PlayStation;

Cumulative Production Shipments of Hardware(until March 2007)

PlayStation
PlayStation 2
PlayStation Portable

Sega;

Code:

Master System

     9203   9209   9303  
NA          
EU   3.50   4.50   6.20
In   

JP    
WW   

Mega Drive

     8903   9003   9103   9203   9209   9303   9403   9503   9603   9703   9803
NA    -     0.40   1.30   3.00   5.00   6.80  11.85
EU    -      -     0.60   1.80   3.50   5.10   7.25
In    -     0.40   1.90   4.80   8.50  11.90  19.10  22.91  24.96                       

JP   0.40   1.00   1.90   2.60   2.90   3.00   3.45   3.55   3.58   3.58   3.58
WW   0.40   1.40   3.80   7.40  11.40  14.90  22.55  26.46  28.54

Game Gear

     9103   9203   9209   9303  9403   9503   9603   9703
NA    -     0.60   0.90   1.45  3.80
EU    -     0.70   1.40   2.05  2.80
In    -     1.30   2.30   3.50  6.60   8.65   8.84

JP   0.20   0.60   0.70   0.85  1.25   1.60   1.78
WW   0.20   1.90   3.00   4.35  7.85  10.25  10.62

Mega CD

     9203   9209   9303   9403   9503   9603
NA    -     0.22   0.30   1.00
EU    -      -     0.07   0.32
In    -     0.22   0.37   1.32   1.82   1.84

JP   0.20   0.23   0.28   0.38   0.40   0.40     
WW   0.20   0.45   0.65   1.70   2.22   2.24

32X

     9503
NA        
EU  
In   

JP   0.05  
WW   

Saturn

     9503   9509   9603   9609   9703   9709   9803   9903   
NA    -            0.60   1.40   1.70   1.75          1.80
EU    -                          0.90   0.95          1.00
OT    -                          0.16   0.26          0.53
In    -            0.90   2.25   2.76   2.96   3.20   3.33                         

JP   0.84          2.50   3.50   4.80   5.20   5.60   5.75
WW   0.84          3.40   5.75   7.56   8.16   8.80   9.08

Dreamcast

     9903   0003   0103   0109   0203   
NA    -     2.10   3.88   4.41   4.64
EU    -     0.70   1.63    -      -
AS   0.90   2.01   2.69   2.82   2.86   
WW   0.90   4.81   8.20   8.86   9.13
NEC:

Code:

PC Engine (Including CDĚROM▓ & Duo)

       8803   8903   9003   9103   9203   9209   9303   9403   9503  9603
IN                                        1.80             
JP     0.60   1.43   2.35   3.62   4.65   4.97   5.32   5.52   5.82  5.84                  
WW                                        6.77

PC Engine (Hu card only models)

     9203   9209   9303   9403 
IN          1.70             
JP   3.65   3.72   3.82   3.92                                           
WW          5.42    

CDĚROM▓ (Duo Included)

     9203   9209   9303   9403   9503   9603
IN          0.10             
JP   1.00   1.25   1.50   1.60   1.90   1.92                                              
WW          1.35   

PC Engine Duo  

     9203  9209    9303   9403   9503  9603
IN    -                     
JP   0.30   0.50   0.60                                                  
WW   0.30         

CDĚROM▓
  
     9203   9209   9303   9403   9503
NA                      
JP   0.70   0.75   0.90                                                  
WW         

PC-FX    

     9503   9603   9703   9709     
JP   0.10   0.22   0.27   0.29
SNK

Code:

Neo Geo (Including Neo Geo CD) 

     9403   9503   9603   9703   9709   9803   9903 
JP   0.30                 0.70   0.80
In                               0.18             
WW                               0.98

Neo Geo 

     9403   9503   9603   9703   9709   9803   9903 
JP   0.30   0.30   0.30   0.30   0.35
In                               0.06
WW                               0.41         

Neo Geo CD 

     9503   9603   9703   9709   9803   9903 
JP                 0.40   0.45
In                        0.12
WW                        0.57
3DO

Code:

3DO (Panasonic REAL & Sanyo TRY)

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.47   0.72   0.77                    
In   0.06   0.30   0.60   0.63                                   
WW   0.10   0.77   1.32   1.40  

3DO REAL

     9403   9503   9603   9703
JP   0.04   0.45   0.70   0.75                                                                      
In   0.06   0.30   0.60   0.63      
WW   0.10   0.75   1.30   1.38

3DO TRY

     9503
JP   0.02
Pioneer

Code:

LaserActive

     9403   
JP  0.042
NA       
WW
Bandai

Code:

WonderSwan (excluding SwanCrystal)

     9903   0003   0103   0203   0303
JP   0.40   1.40   2.80   3.05   3.32
Atari;

Code:

Jaguar

     9312   9412   9512   9612 
NA
EU
JP    -    0.002

WW  0.017  0.100  0.125
BKK
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:39 PM)
Sources;

Beep! MegaDrive 1994/01



FY 88/89~92/93 Sega Hardware sales & 93/94 Forecast;

Code:

Mega Drive / Genesis
                 JP     NA     EU
88/10 ~ 89/3  0.40m 
89/4  ~ 90/3  0.60m  0.40m
90/4  ~ 91/3  0.90m  0.90m  0.60m 
91/4  ~ 92/3  0.70m  1.70m  1.20m
92/4  ~ 93/3  0.40m  3.80m  3.30m 
93/4  ~ 94/3  0.80m  6.00m  3.50m (Forecasts)

CD-ROM
                 JP     NA     EU
91/4  ~ 92/3  0.20m 
92/4  ~ 93/3  0.08m  0.30m  0.07m 
93/4  ~ 94/3  0.25m  0.65m  0.60m (Forecasts)

Game Gear
                 JP     NA     EU
90/4  ~ 91/3  0.20m 
91/4  ~ 92/3  0.40m  0.60m  0.70m
92/4  ~ 93/3  0.25m  0.85m  1.35m 
93/4  ~ 94/3  0.40m  2.30m  1.20m (Forecasts)

Forecasts LTDs 94/3;

Japan   MD/GS   3.80m
        CD-ROM. 0.53m
        GG      1.25m

America MD/GS   12.80m
        CD-ROM.  0.95m
        GG       3.75m

Europe  MD/GS    8.60m
        CD-ROM.  0.67m
        GG       3.25m
Weekly Famitsu 207. H1 92/93 hardware sales;



Weekly Famitsu 221. H1 92/93 hardware sales;

Japan



Code:

                                 92(03) 92(09) (Diff)
Super Famicom                     4.49m  6.44m (+1.95m)
Famicom                          17.39m 17.76m (+0.37m)
Game Boy                          7.16m  7.84m (+0.68m)
Mega Drive                        2.60m  2.90m (+0.30m)
Mega CD                           0.20m  0.23m (+0.03m)
Game Gear                         0.60m  0.70m (+0.10m)
PC Engine (Hu card only models)   3.65m  3.72m (+0.07m)
CDĚROM▓ (Duo included)            1.00m  1.25m (+0.25m)
International



Code:

                     92(09) 
Super Nintendo        7.34m
NES                   ?.??m           
Game Boy             19.99m
Mega Drive/Genesis    8.50m
Sega CD               0.22m
Game Gear             2.30m
TurboGrafx-16         1.70m
TurboGrafx-CD         0.10m
Weekly Famitsu 221;

FY 92/93 Hardware sales;


HD

Note: Lots of errors here ...

Code:

Nintendo
                                 92(03) 93(03) (Diff)
Famicom                          17.39m 18.13m (+0.74m)
Super Famicom                     4.49m  8.64m (+4.15m)
Game Boy                          7.16m  8.97m (+1.81m)
NES (Worldwide)                  39.01m 41.80m (+2.79m)
NES (America)                    30.14m 33.29m (+3.15m)
Game Boy (International)         15.49m 21.48m (+5.99m)
Game Boy (America)                7.39m 11.12m (+3.73m)
Game Boy (Other)                  8.10m 10.36m (+2.26m)
Super NES                         3.35m  8.96m (+5.61m)
Super Nintendo                    0.19m  3.46m (+3.27m)

Sega

Mega Drive                        2.60m  3.00m (+0.40m)
Game Gear                         0.60m  0.90m (+0.30m)
Mega CD                           0.20m  0.28m (+0.08m)
Genesis                           3.00m  7.00m (+4.00m)
Mega Drive (Europe)               1.20m  5.40m (+4.20m)
Master System                     3.50m  6.20m (+2.70m)
Game Gear (America)               0.60m  1.40m (+0.80m)
Game Gear (Europe)                0.70m  2.10m (+1.40m)

NEC

CDĚROM (Duo included?)            1.00m  1.50m (+0.50m)
PC Engine (Hu card only models?)  3.65m  3.82m (+0.17m)
PC Engine Duo                     0.30m  0.60m (+0.30m)
Weekly Famitsu 287;

FY 93/94 Hardware sales;



Code:

Nintendo
                                 93(03) 94(03) (Diff)
Famicom (Japan)                  18.13m 18.60m (+0.47m)
Super Famicom (Japan)             8.64m 11.82m (+3.18m)
Game Boy (Japan)                  8.97m 10.02m (+1.05m)
NES (International)              41.80m 42.43m (+0.63m)
NES (America)                    33.29m 33.89m (+0.60m)
Super NES (International)        12.42m 20.30m (+7.88m)
Super NES (America)               8.96m 14.45m (+5.49m)
Game Boy (International)         21.48m 27.91m (+6.43m)
Game Boy (America)               11.12m 14.81m (+3.69m)

Sega

Mega Drive (Japan)                3.00m  3.45m (+0.45m)
Game Gear (Japan)                 0.85m  1.25m (+0.40m)
Mega CD (Japan)                   0.28m  0.38m (+0.10m)
Genesis                           6.80m 11.85m (+5.05m)
Mega Drive (Europe)               5.10m  7.25m (+2.15m)
Game Gear (America)               1.45m  3.80m (+2.35m)
Game Gear (Europe)                2.05m  2.80m (+0.75m)
Sega CD                           0.30m  1.00m (+0.70m)
Mega CD (Europe)                  0.07m  0.32m (+0.25m)

NEC-HE

PC Engine (Hu card only models)   3.82m  3.92m (+0.10m)
CDĚROM▓ (Duo Included)            1.50m  1.60m (+0.10m)

SNK

Neo Geo (Japan)                          0.30m  (94 04)
Neo Geo (International)                  0.10m  (94 04)

Pioneer

LaserActive                             0.042m

Matsushita   

3DO REAL (America)                       0.06m
3DO REAL (Japan)                         0.04m
Weekly Famitsu 339;

FY 94/95 Hardware sales;



Code:

Nintendo
                                 94(03) 95(03) (Diff)
Famicom (Japan)                  18.60m 18.87m (+0.27m)
Super Famicom (Japan)            11.82m 14.47m (+2.65m)
Game Boy (Japan)                 10.02m 11.16m (+1.14m)
NES (International)              42.43m 42.55m (+0.12m)
Super NES (International)        20.30m 22.06m (+1.76m)
Game Boy (International)         27.91m 32.35m (+4.26m)


Sega

Mega Drive (Japan)                3.45m  3.55m (+0.10m)
Game Gear (Japan)                 1.25m  1.60m (+0.35m)
Mega CD (Japan)                   0.38m  0.40m (+0.02m)
Saturn (Japan)                           0.84m (+0.84m)
Genesis (International)          19.10m 22.91m (+3.81m)
Game Gear (International)         6.60m  8.65m (+2.05m)
Mega CD (International)           1.32m  1.82m (+0.50m)

NEC

PC Engine  3.92m  3.92m (+0.00m)
PC Engine Duo (include CD Rom^2)  1.60m  1.90m (+0.30m)
PC-FX (Japan)                            0.10m (+0.10m)

Sony

PlayStation (Japan)                      0.85m (+0.85m)

Matsushita/Panasonic (Japanese shipment include Sanyo’s 3DO)

3DO (Japan)                       0.04m  0.47m (+0.43m)
3DO (International)               0.06m  0.30m (+0.24m)

Atari

Jaguar (Japan)                           0.002m (+0.002m
Weekly Famitsu 392;

FY 95/96 Hardware sales;



Code:

Nintendo
                                 95(03) 96(03) (Diff)
Famicom (Japan)                  18.87m 18.95m (+0.08m)
Super Famicom (Japan)            14.47m 16.25m (+1.78m)
Game Boy (Japan)                 11.16m 12.16m (+1.00m)
Virtual Boy (Japan)                      0.14m (+0.14m)
NES (International)              42.55m 42.55m (+0.00m)
Super NES (International)        22.06m 26.05m (+3.99m)
Game Boy (International)         32.35m 35.50m (+3.15m)
Virtual Boy (International)              0.63m (+0.63m)

Sega

Mega Drive (Japan)                3.55m  3.58m (+0.03m)
Game Gear (Japan)                 1.60m  1.78m (+0.18m)
Mega CD (Japan)                   0.40m  0.40m (+0.00m)
Saturn (Japan)                    0.84m  2.50m (+1.76m)
Genesis (International)          22.91m 24.96m (+1.95m)
Game Gear (International)         8.65m  8.84m (+0.19m)
Mega CD (International)           1.82m  1.84m (+0.02m)
Saturn (International)                   0.90m (+0.90m)

NEC

PC Engine Duo (include CD Rom^2)  1.90m  1.92m (+0.02m)
PC-FX (Japan)                     0.10m  0.22m (+0.12m)

Sony

PlayStation (Japan)               0.85m  2.46m (+1.61m)
PlayStation (International)              2.00m (+2.00m)

Matsushita/Panasonic (Japanese shipment include Sanyo’s 3DO)

3DO (Japan)                       0.47m  0.72m (+0.25m)
3DO (International)               0.30m  0.60m (+0.30m)
BKK
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:41 PM)
Charts:

Japan:

Famitsu:

2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997
1996

1995:

Code:

#    Cover Date    Chart Date               *Double Week

372  1996.02.02    (1995.12.25 ~ 1996.01.07)*
371  1996.01.26    (1995.12.18 ~ 1995.12.24)
370  1996.01.19    (1995.12.11 ~ 1995.12.17)
369* 1996.01.05/12 (1995.12.04 ~ 1995.12.10)
367  1995.12.29    (1995.11.27 ~ 1995.12.03)
366  1995.12.22    (1995.11.20 ~ 1995.12.26)
365  1995.12.15    (1995.11.13 ~ 1995.11.19)
364  1995.12.08    (1995.11.06 ~ 1995.11.12)
363  1995.12.01    (1995.10.30 ~ 1995.11.05)
362  1995.11.24    (1995.10.16 ~ 1995.10.29)*
361* 1995.11.10/17 (1995.10.09 ~ 1995.10.15)
359  1995.11.03    (1995.10.02 ~ 1995.10.08)
358  1995.10.27    (1995.09.25 ~ 1995.10.01)
357  1995.10.20    (1995.09.18 ~ 1995.09.24)
356  1995.10.13    (1995.09.11 ~ 1995.09.17)
355  1995.10.06    (1995.09.04 ~ 1995.09.10)
354  1995.09.29    (1995.08.28 ~ 1995.09.03)
353  1995.09.22    (1995.08.21 ~ 1995.08.27)
352  1995.09.15    (1995.08.14 ~ 1995.08.20)
351  1995.09.08    (1995.07.31 ~ 1995.08.13)*
350  1995.09.01    (1995.07.24 ~ 1995.07.30)
349* 1995.08.18/25 (1995.07.17 ~ 1995.07.23)
347  1995.08.11    (1995.07.10 ~ 1995.07.16)
346  1995.08.04    (1995.07.02 ~ 1995.07.09)
345  1995.07.28    (1995.06.26 ~ 1995.07.02)
344  1995.07.21    (1995.06.19 ~ 1995.06.25)
343  1995.07.14    (1995.06.12 ~ 1995.06.18)
342  1995.07.07    (1995.06.05 ~ 1995.06.11)
341  1995.06.30    (1995.05.29 ~ 1995.06.04)
340  1995.06.23    (1995.05.22 ~ 1995.05.28)
339  1995.06.16    (1995.05.15 ~ 1995.05.21)
338  1995.06.09    (1995.05.08 ~ 1995.05.14)
337  1995.06.02    (1995.04.24 ~ 1995.05.07)*
336  1995.05.26    (1995.04.17 ~ 1995.04.23)
335* 1995.05.12/19 (1995.04.10 ~ 1995.04.16)
333  1995.05.05    (1995.04.03 ~ 1995.04.09)
332  1995.04.28    (1995.03.27 ~ 1995.04.02)
331  1995.04.21    (1995.03.20 ~ 1995.03.26)
330  1995.04.14    (1995.03.13 ~ 1995.03.19)
329  1995.04.07    (1995.03.06 ~ 1995.03.12)
328  1995.03.31    (1995.02.27 ~ 1995.03.05)
327  1995.03.24    (1995.02.20 ~ 1995.02.26)
326  1995.03.17    (1995.02.13 ~ 1995.02.19)
325  1995.03.10    (1995.02.06 ~ 1995.02.12)
324  1995.03.03    (1995.01.30 ~ 1995.02.05)
323  1995.02.24    (1995.01.23 ~ 1995.01.29)
322  1995.02.17    (1995.01.16 ~ 1995.01.22)
321  1995.02.10    (1995.01.09 ~ 1995.01.15)
320  1995.02.03    (1995.01.02 ~ 1995.01.08)
1994:

Code:

#    Cover Date    Chart Date               *Double Week

319  1995.01.27    (1994.12.19 ~ 1995.01.01)*
318  1995.01.20    (1994.12.12 ~ 1994.12.18)   
317* 1995.01.06/13 (1994.12.05 ~ 1994.12.11)
315  1994.12.30    (1994.11.28 ~ 1994.12.04)
314  1994.12.23    (1994.11.21 ~ 1994.11.27) (Incomplete, Top10 only)
313  1994.12.16    (1994.11.14 ~ 1994.11.20)
312  1994.12.09    (1994.11.07 ~ 1994.11.13)
311  1994.12.02    (1994.10.24 ~ 1994.11.06)*
310  1994.11.25    (1994.10.17 ~ 1994.11.23)
309* 1994.11.11/18 (1994.10.10 ~ 1994.10.16)
307  1994.11.04    (1994.10.03 ~ 1994.10.09)
306  1994.10.28    (1994.09.26 ~ 1994.10.02)
305  1994.10.21    (1994.09.19 ~ 1994.09.25)
304  1994.10.14    (1994.09.12 ~ 1994.09.18)
303  1994.10.07    (1994.09.05 ~ 1994.09.11)
302  1994.09.30    (1994.08.29 ~ 1994.09.04)
301  1994.09.23    (1994.08.22 ~ 1994.08.28)
300  1994.09.16    (1994.08.15 ~ 1994.08.21)
299  1994.09.09    (1994.08.01 ~ 1994.08.14)*
298  1994.09.02    (1994.07.25 ~ 1994.07.31)
297* 1994.08.19/26 (1994.07.18 ~ 1994.07.24)
295  1994.08.12    (1994.07.11 ~ 1994.07.17)
294  1994.08.05    (1994.07.04 ~ 1994.07.10)
293  1994.07.29    (1994.06.27 ~ 1994.07.03)
292  1994.07.22    (1994.06.20 ~ 1994.06.26)
291  1994.07.15    (1994.06.13 ~ 1994.06.19)
290  1994.07.08    (1994.06.06 ~ 1994.06.12)
289  1994.07.01    (1994.05.30 ~ 1994.06.05)
288  1994.06.24    (1994.05.23 ~ 1994.05.29)
287  1994.06.17    (1994.05.16 ~ 1994.05.22)
286  1994.06.10    (1994.05.09 ~ 1994.05.15)
285  1994.06.03    (1994.04.25 ~ 1994.05.08)*
284  1994.05.27    (1994.04.18 ~ 1994.04.24)
283  1994.05.20    (1994.04.11 ~ 1994.04.17)
282* 1994.05.06/13 (1994.04.04 ~ 1994.04.10)
280  1994.04.29    (1994.03.28 ~ 1994.04.03)
279  1994.04.22    (1994.03.21 ~ 1994.03.28)
278  1994.04.15    (1994.03.14 ~ 1994.03.20)
277  1994.04.08    (1994.03.07 ~ 1994.03.13)
276  1994.04.01    (1994.02.28 ~ 1994.03.06)
275  1994.03.25    (1994.02.21 ~ 1994.02.27)
274  1994.03.18    (1994.02.14 ~ 1994.02.20)
273  1994.03.11    (1994.02.07 ~ 1994.02.13)
272  1994.03.04    (1994.01.31 ~ 1994.02.06)
271  1994.02.25    (1994.01.24 ~ 1994.01.30)
270  1994.02.18    (1994.01.17 ~ 1994.01.23)
269  1994.02.11    (1994.01.10 ~ 1994.01.16)
268  1994.02.04    (1994.01.03 ~ 1994.01.09)
1993:

Code:

#    Cover Date    Chart Date               *Double Week

267  1994.01.28    (1993.12.20 ~ 1994.01.02)*
266  1994.01.21    (1993.12.13 ~ 1993.12.19)
265* 1994.01.07/14 (1993.12.06 ~ 1993.12.12)
263  1993.12.31    (1993.11.29 ~ 1993.12.05)
262  1993.12.24    (1993.11.22 ~ 1993.11.28)
261  1993.12.17    (1993.11.15 ~ 1993.11.21)
260  1993.12.10    (1993.11.08 ~ 1993.11.14)
259  1993.12.03    (1993.10.25 ~ 1993.11.07)*
258  1993.11.26    (1993.10.18 ~ 1993.10.24)
257* 1993.11.12/19 (1993.10.11 ~ 1993.10.17)
255  1993.11.05    (1993.10.04 ~ 1993.10.10)
254  1993.10.29    (1993.09.27 ~ 1993.10.03)
253  1993.10.22    (1993.09.20 ~ 1993.09.26)
252  1993.10.15    (1993.09.13 ~ 1993.09.19)
251  1993.10.08    (1993.09.06 ~ 1993.09.12)
250  1993.10.01    (1993.08.30 ~ 1993.09.05)
249  1993.09.24    (1993.08.23 ~ 1993.08.29)
248  1993.09.17    (1993.08.16 ~ 1993.08.22)
247  1993.09.10    (1993.08.02 ~ 1993.08.15)*
246  1993.09.03    (1993.07.26 ~ 1993.08.01)
245* 1993.08.20/27 (1993.07.19 ~ 1993.07.25)
243  1993.08.13    (1993.07.12 ~ 1993.07.18)
242  1993.08.06    (1993.07.05 ~ 1993.07.11)
241  1993.07.30    (1993.06.28 ~ 1993.07.04)
240  1993.07.23    (1993.06.21 ~ 1993.06.27)
239  1993.07.16    (1993.06.14 ~ 1993.06.20)
238  1993.07.09    (1993.06.07 ~ 1993.06.13)
237  1993.07.02    (1993.05.31 ~ 1993.06.06)
236  1993.06.25    (1993.05.24 ~ 1993.05.30)
235  1993.06.18    (1993.05.17 ~ 1993.05.23)
234  1993.06.11    (1993.05.10 ~ 1993.05.16)
233  1993.06.04    (1993.05.03 ~ 1993.05.09)
232  1993.05.28    (1993.04.19 ~ 1993.05.02)*
231  1993.05.21    (1993.04.12 ~ 1993.04.18)
230* 1993.05.07/14 (1993.04.05 ~ 1993.04.11)
228  1993.04.30    (1993.03.29 ~ 1993.04.04) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
227  1993.04.23    (1993.03.22 ~ 1993.03.28)
226  1993.04.16    (1993.03.15 ~ 1993.03.21)
225  1993.04.09    (1993.03.08 ~ 1993.03.14)
224  1993.04.02    (1993.03.01 ~ 1993.03.07)
223  1993.03.26    (1993.02.22 ~ 1993.02.28)
222  1993.03.19    (1993.02.15 ~ 1993.02.21)
221  1993.03.12    (1993.02.08 ~ 1993.02.14)
220  1993.03.05    (1993.02.01 ~ 1993.02.07)
219  1993.02.26    (1993.01.25 ~ 1993.01.31)
218  1993.02.19    (1993.01.18 ~ 1993.01.24)
217  1993.02.12    (1993.01.11 ~ 1993.01.17)
216  1993.02.05    (1993.01.04 ~ 1993.01.10)
1992: (Chart dates presumed)

Code:

#    Cover Date    Chart Date               *Double Week

215  1993.01.29    (1992.12.21 ~ 1993.01.03)*
214  1993.01.22    (1992.12.14 ~ 1992.12.20)
213* 1993.01.08/15 (1992.12.07 ~ 1992.12.13)
211  1993.01.01    (1992.11.30 ~ 1992.12.06)
210  1992.12.25    (1992.11.23 ~ 1992.11.29)
209  1992.12.18    (1992.11.16 ~ 1992.11.22)
208  1992.12.11    (1992.11.09 ~ 1992.11.15)
207  1992.12.04    (1992.11.02 ~ 1992.11.08)
206  1992.11.27    (1992.10.19 ~ 1992.11.01)*
205* 1992.11.13/20 (1992.10.12 ~ 1992.10.18)
203  1992.11.06    (1992.10.05 ~ 1992.10.11)
202  1992.10.30    (1992.09.28 ~ 1992.10.04)
201  1992.10.23    (1992.09.21 ~ 1992.09.27)
200  1992.10.16    (1992.09.14 ~ 1992.09.20)
199  1992.10.09    (1992.09.07 ~ 1992.09.13)
198  1992.10.02    (1992.08.31 ~ 1992.09.06)
197  1992.09.25    (1992.08.24 ~ 1992.08.30)
196  1992.09.18    (1992.08.17 ~ 1992.08.23)
195  1992.09.11    (1992.08.03 ~ 1992.08.16)*
194  1992.09.04    (1992.07.27 ~ 1992.08.02)
193* 1992.08.21/28 (1992.07.20 ~ 1992.07.26)
191  1992.08.14    (1992.07.13 ~ 1992.07.19)
190  1992.08.07    (1992.07.06 ~ 1992.07.12)
189  1992.07.31    (1992.06.29 ~ 1992.07.05)
188  1992.07.24    (1992.06.22 ~ 1992.06.28)
187  1992.07.17    (1992.06.15 ~ 1992.06.21)
186  1992.07.10    (1992.06.08 ~ 1992.06.14)
185  1992.07.03    (1992.06.01 ~ 1992.06.07)
184  1992.06.26    (1992.05.25 ~ 1992.05.31)
183  1992.06.19    (1992.05.18 ~ 1992.05.24)
182  1992.06.12    (1992.05.11 ~ 1992.05.17)
181  1992.06.05    (1992.05.04 ~ 1992.05.10)
180  1992.05.29    (1992.04.20 ~ 1992.05.03)*
179  1992.05.22    (1992.04.13 ~ 1992.04.19)
178* 1992.05.08/15 (1992.04.06 ~ 1992.04.12)
176  1992.05.01    (1992.03.30 ~ 1992.04.05)
175  1992.04.24    (1992.03.23 ~ 1992.03.29)
174  1992.04.17    (1992.03.16 ~ 1992.03.22)
173  1992.04.10    (1992.03.09 ~ 1992.03.15)
172  1992.04.03    (1992.03.02 ~ 1992.03.08)
171  1992.03.27    (1992.02.24 ~ 1992.03.01)
170  1992.03.20    (1992.02.17 ~ 1992.02.23)
169  1992.03.13    (1992.02.10 ~ 1992.02.16)
168  1992.03.06    (1992.02.03 ~ 1992.02.09)
167  1992.02.28    (1992.01.27 ~ 1992.02.02)
166  1992.02.21    (1992.01.20 ~ 1992.01.26)
165  1992.02.14    (1992.01.13 ~ 1992.01.19)
164  1992.02.07    (1992.01.06 ~ 1992.01.12)
163  1992.01.31    (1991.12.23 ~ 1992.01.05)*
1991: (Chart dates presumed)

Code:

162  1992.01.24    (1991.12.16 ~ 1991.12.22)
161* 1992.01.10/17 (1991.12.09 ~ 1991.12.15)
159  1992.01.03    (1991.12.02 ~ 1991.12.08)
158  1991.12.27    (1991.11.25 ~ 1991.12.01)
157  1991.12.20    (1991.11.18 ~ 1991.11.24) Incomplete (Top 10 only)
156  1991.12.13    (1991.11.11 ~ 1991.11.17)
155  1991.12.06    (1991.10.28 ~ 1991.11.10)*
154  1991.11.29    (1991.10.21 ~ 1991.10.27)
153* 1991.11.15/22 (1991.10.14 ~ 1991.10.20)
151  1991.11.08    (1991.10.07 ~ 1991.10.13)
150  1991.11.01    (1991.09.30 ~ 1991.10.06)
149  1991.10.25    (1991.09.23 ~ 1991.10.29)
148  1991.10.18    (1991.09.16 ~ 1991.10.22)
147  1991.10.11    (1991.09.09 ~ 1991.10.15)
146  1991.10.04    (1991.09.02 ~ 1991.09.08)
145  1991.09.27    (1991.08.26 ~ 1991.09.01)
144  1991.09.20    (1991.08.19 ~ 1991.09.25)
143  1991.09.13    (1991.08.05 ~ 1991.08.18)*
142  1991.09.06    (1991.07.29 ~ 1991.08.04)
141* 1991.08.23/30 (1991.07.22 ~ 1991.07.28)
139  1991.08.16    (1991.07.15 ~ 1991.07.21)
138  1991.08.09    (1991.07.08 ~ 1991.07.14)
137  1991.08.02    (1991.07.01 ~ 1991.07.17)
136  1991.07.26    (1991.06.17 ~ 1991.06.30)*
BiWeekly Famitsu:

Code:

Issue#         *Double Issue

1991 14    (135)  
1991 13    (134)
1991 12    (133)
1991 10/11 (132)*
1991 09    (130)
1991 08    (129)
1991 07    (127)
1991 06    (126)
1991 05    (124)
1991 04    (123)
1991 02/03 (121)*
1991 01    (119)
 
1990 26    (117)
1990 25    (116)
1990 24    (114)
1990 23    (113)
1990 22    (112)
1990 21    (111)
1990 20    (110)
1990 19    (109)
1990 17/18 (108)*
1990 16    (106)
1990 15    (105)
1990 14    (104)
1990 13    (103)
1990 12    (102)
1990 10/11 (101)*
1990 09    (99)
1990 08    (98)
1990 07    (97)
1990 06    (96)
1990 05    (95) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1990 04    (94)
1990 03    (93)
1990 01/02 (92)*

1989 26    (90)
1989 25    (89)
1989 24    (88)
1989 23    (87)
1989 22    (86)
1989 21    (85)
1989 20    (84)
1989 19    (83)
1989 18    (82)
1989 16/17 (81)*
1989 15    (79)
1989 14    (78)
1989 13    (77)
1989 12    (76)
1989 10/11 (75)*
1989 09    (74)
1989 08    (73)
1989 07    (72)
1989 06    (71)
1989 05    (70)
1989 04    (69)
1989 03    (68) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1989 01/02 (67)*

1988 25    (65)
1988 24    (64)
1988 23    (63)
1988 22    (62)
1988 21    (61)
1988 20    (60)
1988 19    (59)
1988 18    (58)
1988 17    (57)
1988 16    (56)
1988 15    (55)
1988 14    (54)
1988 13    (53)
1988 12    (52) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1988 11    (51)
1988 10    (50)
1988 09    (49)
1988 08    (48)
1988 07    (47)
1988 06    (46)
1988 05    (45)
1988 04    (44)
1988 03    (43)
1988 01/02 (42)*

1987 26    (40)
1987 25    (39)
1987 24    (38)
1987 23    (37)
1987 22    (36)
1987 21    (35)
1987 20    (34)
1987 19    (33)
1987 18    (32)
1987 16/17 (31)*
1987 15    (29) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1987 14    (28) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1987 13    (27)
1987 12    (26)
1987 11    (25)
1987 10    (24)
1987 09    (23)
1987 08    (22)
1987 07    (21)
1987 06    (20)
1987 05    (19)
1987 04    (18)
1987 03    (17)
1987 01/02 (16)*

1986 14    (14)
1986 13    (13)
1986 12    (12)
1986 11    (11) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1986 10    (10)
1986 09    (09)
1986 08    (08)
1986 07    (07)
1986 06    (06)
1986 05    (05)
1986 04    (04) Incomplete (Top 5 only)
1986 03    (03)
1986 02    (02)
1986 01    (01)
BKK
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:43 PM)
There was a bit of a debate about Dreamcast shipments here, which reminded me that we had a similar debate here a few months ago. That in turn reminded me that I said I'd start a retro sales thread for those sorts of discussions. So I'll restart the debate here rather than getting further OT in the Nintendo Financials thread.

The 8.2M Dreamcast shipment that Sega reported in their 2001 AR seems erroneous, adding up the annual sales up until then results in 8.94M. I'd like to see if the same figure was reported in the Japanese version, but that doesn't seem to have been archived.

Code:

	  Japan	     North America  Europe     Asia	 World      Total Reported  Sum Total
1999 03	  900,000	   -	       -        -	   900,000    900,000	      900,000
2000 03	  950,000    2,500,000      1,040,000  160,000   4,650,000  5,550,000       5,550,000
2001 03	  470,000    1,780,000	      930,000  210,000   3,390,000  8,200,000       8,940,000
2001 09   130,000      530,000                                                      9,600,000                                             
2002 03*   40,000      230,000	                                                    9,870,000
Total   2,490,000    5,040,000      1,970,000  370,000   9,870,000
*Forecast

In addition when announcing Dreamcast discontinuation Sega released shipments for the 9 months ending December 31st 2000, along with a breakdown of remaining inventory;

Code:

	  Japan	     North America  Europe     Asia	 World      Total Reported  Sum Total
1999 03	  900,000	   -	       -        -	   900,000    900,000	      900,000
2000 03	  950,000    2,500,000      1,040,000  160,000   4,650,000  5,550,000       5,550,000
2000 12   280,000    1,350,000        560,000  130,000   2,320,000                  7,870,000
Remain.   280,000    1,200,000        460,000   90,000   2,030,000                  9,900,000
Total   2,410,000    5,050,000      2,060,000  380,000   9,900,000
Whilst broadly the same as the one above it seems that some inventory initially intended for Europe was sold in Japan. That still leaves 30,000 units unaccounted for by Sega's forecast for 2002 H2, which coincidentally is the difference between Sega's Japanese forecast (170k) and the actual Japanese shipment reported by Nikkei (200k). So it looks like 110,000 units initially intended for overseas ended up being sold in Japan. Maybe these had yet to be shipped from Japan when they discontinued the console, but that's just speculation.

Annual (FY) Japanese Home Console Hardware Shipments:

Code:

	Total	           Nintendo	      Sega	        Sony**	          NEC	         Matsushita	Microsoft      Pioneer	     Others

2002 03	7,710,000 (+52.1%) 1,620,000* (21.0%)   200,000 (02.6%)	5,640,000 (73.2%)  -	             -	        250,000 (03.2%)	  -	       -
2001 03	5,070,000 (-06.8%)   200,000* (04.0%)   470,000 (09.2%)	4,400,000 (86.7%)  -	             -	            -	          -	      10,000 (00.1%)
2000 03	5,440,000 (-11.1%)   940,000* (17.2%)   950,000 (17.4%)	3,550,000 (65.3%)  -	             -	            -	          -	      10,000 (00.1%)
1999 03	6,120,000 (-16.2%) 1,310,000  (21.4%) 1,050,000 (17.1%)	3,750,000 (61.2%)  ?	             -              -	          -	      20,000 (00.3%)
1998 03	7,300,000 (-20.2%) 1,330,000  (18.1%)   800,000 (10.9%)	5,010,000 (68.3%)  ?	             ?	            -	          -	     200,000 (02.7%)
1997 03	9,200,000 (+62.8%) 2,730,000  (29.7%) 2,300,000 (25.0%)	4,000,000 (43.4%)  50,000 (0.5%)  60,000 (0.7%)     -	          -	      60,000 (00.7%)
1996 03	5,650,000 (+06.8%) 1,860,000  (32.9%) 1,690,000 (29.9%)	1,700,000 (29.2%) 140,000 (2.5%) 250,000 (4.4%)	    -	          ?	      60,000 (01.1%)
1995 03	5,290,000 (+07.9%) 2,930,000  (55.4%) 1,010,000 (19.1%)	  800,000 (15.1%)  ?	             ?	            -	          ?	     550,000 (10.4%)
1994 03	4,900,000	   3,650,000  (75.4%)   550,000 (11.5%)	   -	           ?	          40,000 (0.8%)	    -          42,000 (0.9%) 560,000 (11.4%)
1993 03		           4,890,000	        480,000 	   -	          670,000     	     -	            -	          -	

*Excluding NES & SNES
** Production shipments, "1997 03" onwards include shipments to Asian countries and regions including South Korea.
Source: Nihon Keizai Shimbun (Nikkei)
Captain Smoker
"Hey! What's your name
  then?"
"Mancomb Seepgood."
(01-28-2015, 11:44 PM)
Captain Smoker's Avatar
this is my kind of thread. ^^


Just for the sake of it:

Worldwide Hardware (as of Dec. 2014):
Wii: 101.440.000
NES: 61.910.000
SNES: 49.100.000
N64: 32.930.000
GCN: 21.740.000
WIU: 9.200.000

NDS: 154.010.000
GB/C: 118.690.000
GBA: 81.510.000
3DS: 50.410.000
G&W: 43.400.000


I can't find exact sources, but Wikipedia says:

Color TV Game 6: 1.000.000
Color TV Game 15: 1.000.000
Color TV Racing 112: 500.000
Color TV Game Block Breaker: 500.000

*This is a series of dedicated home consoles, therefore, Nintendos first home consoles. Yamauchi got the Magnavox Odyssey licence back then to produce this in Japan.



Edit: Virtual Boy is commonly said to have sold 770.000 units, but Aquamarine once clarified that this number is probably wrong.
1st Course
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:45 PM)
1st Course's Avatar
Sub'd
Square2015
Member
(01-28-2015, 11:58 PM)
Square2015's Avatar
Many of us gaffers have been on a search for the original NPD data for the 16 and 8-bit eras. And we've learned a lot about it. There are publishers that have old databases of said data but the NPD requested (probably years ago) to not release it to anyone. The data was less reliable then and could taint the NPD's reputation, they fear.

In those days the data represented some 65% of the market and it was up to the console makers to extrapolate the remaining 35%. When NPD did sometimes it was less accurate. Nintendo/Sega, Sony had their various formulas. There should not be an issue with that raw data being shared with the public today I would think... Also considering this was over twenty years ago now.
A Black Falcon
Member
(01-29-2015, 12:25 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar
The claim of 9.9 million Dreamcasts sold is interesting, because I've heard the claim that Sega said that they only produced 9.13 million Dreamcasts (Sega CESA report)... I think that's the number? Close to that, anyway. On the other hand, other sites claim 10.45-10.6 million Dreamcasts sold. What's right? Do we actually have the information to know? That same CESA report, I think, says 9.26 million Saturns, which is a quite plausible number close to the "9.5 million" the old estimates said.

I see you link that other argument on DC sales, but all this does is just restate the two positions, not say which one is right; they clearly conflict.
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 12:26 AM)
Celine's Avatar
Yes!!!

If you need help...
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 12:41 AM)
Celine's Avatar
DC LTD through Q2 FY2001 (Sept. 2000):
5.98M

https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/.../20001027e.pdf

Useful link for Nintendo data (shipment data):
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701305

NGage

Worldwide LTD = 2M (as September 2005)

Source: Nokia shipment data as reported by Nokia financial report Q3 2005


http://www.game-deck.net/index.html

Total Shipment WW first two weeks: 400K
“Nokia hopes to sell between 6 and 9 million N-Gage Game Deck units before the end of 2004.”

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/16501...elease-pdf.pdf

Total Shipment WW in 2003: 600K

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/16504...elease-pdf.pdf

Total Shipment WW by end september 2004: 1000K

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/16504...elease-pdf.pdf

Total Shipment WW by end 2004: 1300K

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/16506...elease-pdf.pdf

Total Shipment WW by end September 2005: 2000K

jett
D-Member
(01-29-2015, 12:51 AM)
jett's Avatar
I have NPD data for all PS1, DC and N64 software up to 2003 (from back when the entire spreadsheet would leak here), which might as well be LTD for these consoles...but I'm guessing I'm not allowed to post it here. :P

Interesting tidbit: The N64 had 23 million sellers. The PS1... 69. Probably more if a few games kept on selling past 2003.

Oh and the DC? One. :P
Takao
Banned
(01-29-2015, 12:53 AM)
Takao's Avatar

Originally Posted by jett

I have NPD data for all PS1, DC and N64 software up to 2003 (from back when the entire spreadsheet would leak here), which might as well be LTD for these consoles...but I'm guessing I'm not allowed to post it here. :P

Interesting tidbit: The N64 had 23 million sellers. The PS1... 69. Probably more if a few games kept on selling past 2003.

Oh and the DC? One. :P

I'd ask a mod before posting, but that data would be 12 years old at this point. I don't really see much value for the NPD to want to protect.
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 12:54 AM)
Epoch Japanese Hardware:

TV Tennis (1975): 10,000
System 10 (1977): 200,000
TV Baseball (1978): 230,000
Cassette Vision (1981): 300,000
Super Cassette Vision (1984): 300,000

Epoch launched Japan's first console in 1975 (TV Tennis), and saw success with several of these dedicated systems in the late 70s before launching their first true console in 1981; the "Cassette Vision". In 1984 they launched it's successor the "Super Cassette Vision" to compete with Nintendo's Famicom and Sega's SG-1000. That same year they launched Japan's first handheld, the "Game Pocket Computer". In 1985 they released the World's first battery backed-up game; "Pop & Chips" for the SCV. Unfortunately they could never compete with the Famicom, and in 1986 stopped supporting the SCV. They continued to release LCD games, and in 1991 released the "Barcode Battler".

These numbers originally came from a range of mini replica models of some of their systems that they released in 2005. Game Pocket Computer wasn't included, so I guess it didn't sell much (only five games were ever released for it). Incidentally, Super Cassette Vision was also released in France in 1985. I have a couple of these, and have seen quite a few serial numbers from others. The highest I have ever seen was 17,800, so probably around 20,000 or so were also sold in France.

Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:10 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by BKK


The 8.2M Dreamcast shipment that Sega reported in their 2001 AR seems erroneous, adding up the annual sales up until then results in 8.94M. I'd like to see if the same figure was reported in the Japanese version, but that doesn't seem to have been archived.

Just a guess but what if that wasn't an error.
Couldn't it be that Sega reported the units shipped out that year divided by regions but when gave the LTD considered the units shipped out during the FY minus the stocks sent back to Sega by retailers after the system was discontinued?
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:16 AM)
Celine's Avatar
Koto the company founded by Gumpey Yokoi and responsible for designing the WonderSwan series of handheld gave the following LTDs:
HW LTD (whole family): more than 3.5M
SW LTD: more than 10M

http://www.koto.co.jp/english/products/device.html

Also Gunpey (Henoheno) before Gunpey (WonderSwan) lol
http://www.koto.co.jp/english/produc.../game_ph11.jpg
http://dsmedia.ign.com/ds/image/arti...1162500872.jpg
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:19 AM)

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

The claim of 9.9 million Dreamcasts sold is interesting, because I've heard the claim that Sega said that they only produced 9.13 million Dreamcasts (Sega CESA report)... I think that's the number? Close to that, anyway. On the other hand, other sites claim 10.45-10.6 million Dreamcasts sold. What's right? Do we actually have the information to know? That same CESA report, I think, says 9.26 million Saturns, which is a quite plausible number close to the "9.5 million" the old estimates said.

I see you link that other argument on DC sales, but all this does is just restate the two positions, not say which one is right; they clearly conflict.

I don't think Sega have ever given a figure of 9.13 million. In their 2000 annual report they gave a LTD of 5.55 million. In their 2001 annual report they gave a figure of 3.39 million for the year and a LTD of 8.2 million (which contradicts every other figure they had previously given). In later reports they only give YTD shipments and not LTD shipments. The 9.13 million is arrived at by adding those YTD shipments to the 8.2 million figure.

I guess the CESA report you mention is this one that Celine linked to in the other thread. That gives numerous sources for those figures (some of which aren't up to date) including "company press releases". So I guess that brings us back to whether or not the 8.2 million figure was an error or not.

I posted this as I recently came across additional data (remaining inventory from December 31 2000) which I hadn't seen posted before.
Captain Smoker
"Hey! What's your name
  then?"
"Mancomb Seepgood."
(01-29-2015, 01:23 AM)
Captain Smoker's Avatar
We also have the official sales reports for the Atari 7800 from 1986 to 1990 (thx to Curt Vendel at atariage).
You can download everything here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/144...ures-attached/


Gamasutra once created a chart for this:



LTD Sales: 3.772.700 (as of December 1990).



Originally Posted by Celine

Koto the company founded by Gumpey Yokoi and responsible for designing the WonderSwan series of handheld gave the following LTDs:
HW LTD (whole family): more than 3.5M
SW LTD: more than 10M

http://www.koto.co.jp/english/products/device.html

Also Gunpey (Henoheno) before Gunpey (WonderSwan) lol
http://www.koto.co.jp/english/produc.../game_ph11.jpg
http://dsmedia.ign.com/ds/image/arti...1162500872.jpg

CESA reports 3.320.000 for the WonderSwan as of December 2006.
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:26 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by Captain Smoker

CESA reports 3.320.000 for the WonderSwan as of December 2006.

Indeed.
My initial guess was that Koto rounded the number but they say "more than" so who knows...

Originally Posted by Captain Smoker

N64: 30.750.000

I see what you did there ( and probably why you did :-) )
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:27 AM)

Originally Posted by Celine

Just a guess but what if that wasn't an error.
Couldn't it be that Sega reported the units shipped out that year divided by regions but when gave the LTD considered the units shipped out during the FY minus the stocks sent back to Sega by retailers after the system was discontinued?

The issue is that they reported 2.32 million shipped in the nine months ending December 31 2000, along with remaining inventory of 2.03 million.
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:37 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by BKK


I guess the CESA report you mention is this one that Celine linked to in the other thread. That gives numerous sources for those figures (some of which aren't up to date) including "company press releases". So I guess that brings us back to whether or not the 8.2 million figure was an error or not.

I posted this as I recently came across additional data (remaining inventory from December 31 2000) which I hadn't seen posted before.

I clarify that what I posted isn't the CESA White Paper which is a paid report but another report that cites the CESA White Paper as the source for every systems except Atari 2600.
I can confirm the figure for NES, SNES, MD, SAT, N64, DC are indeed in the CESA White Paper however the PS1 figure in the white paper is 102.49M (as it should).
A Black Falcon
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:43 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar
Hmm, okay, so the issue is about Sega's weird statements in their 2001 report. Hard to know what's going on there... and that's a huge difference, 740,000 systems matters a lot with only 9-10 million total!


On another note, it's important to note that that 3.77 million Atari 7800 sales figure is for North American sales only. European sales are unknown, but may at best have been as good as US sales were (it's not clear).

Originally Posted by BKK

I don't think Sega have ever given a figure of 9.13 million. In their 2000 annual report they gave a LTD of 5.55 million. In their 2001 annual report they gave a figure of 3.39 million for the year and a LTD of 8.2 million (which contradicts every other figure they had previously given). In later reports they only give YTD shipments and not LTD shipments. The 9.13 million is arrived at by adding those YTD shipments to the 8.2 million figure.

I guess the CESA report you mention is this one that Celine linked to in the other thread. That gives numerous sources for those figures (some of which aren't up to date) including "company press releases". So I guess that brings us back to whether or not the 8.2 million figure was an error or not.

I posted this as I recently came across additional data (remaining inventory from December 31 2000) which I hadn't seen posted before.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. From what you described, it does seem likely that the 9.13 number was the result of 8.2+later sales... and it could be right, but the question you've raised about the accuracy of the 8.2 number is a good one.
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:55 AM)
I found the Japanese version, it also states 8.20 million total. That's me done for the night.
SwiftDeath
Member
(01-29-2015, 01:59 AM)
SwiftDeath's Avatar
This thread is a great idea!

Originally Posted by jett

I have NPD data for all PS1, DC and N64 software up to 2003 (from back when the entire spreadsheet would leak here), which might as well be LTD for these consoles...but I'm guessing I'm not allowed to post it here. :P

Interesting tidbit: The N64 had 23 million sellers. The PS1... 69. Probably more if a few games kept on selling past 2003.

Oh and the DC? One. :P

Originally Posted by Takao

I'd ask a mod before posting, but that data would be 12 years old at this point. I don't really see much value for the NPD to want to protect.

I believe it was Aquamarine who told a story about professors who had access to I think NPD reports from the 80's who are still terrified of releasing said information due to NPD's propensity to strike back for such things even after all that time.
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 02:04 AM)
Problem solved?

It seems that it was the previous year that was erroneous.

Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 02:10 AM)
Celine's Avatar
Old japanese Sega IR site (post here for those interested):
http://web.archive.org/web/200102062...co.jp/sega/IR/

Saturn LTDs as FY '98 (March '98):
HW: 8.8M
SW: 80M

Final HW LTD as reported in CESA White Paper: 9.26M
jett
D-Member
(01-29-2015, 02:12 AM)
jett's Avatar

Originally Posted by Takao

I'd ask a mod before posting, but that data would be 12 years old at this point. I don't really see much value for the NPD to want to protect.

Originally Posted by SwiftDeath

This thread is a great idea!





I believe it was Aquamarine who told a story about professors who had access to I think NPD reports from the 80's who are still terrified of releasing said information due to NPD's propensity to strike back for such things even after all that time.

Yeah I doubt the forum's administration would be okay with me releasing the whole spreadsheet (it's actually a txt file tho). If a mod gave the okay I would, though.
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 02:36 AM)
Celine's Avatar
Sega Planet in 1996!
maxcriden
Member
(01-29-2015, 02:37 AM)
maxcriden's Avatar

Originally Posted by jett

Yeah I doubt the forum's administration would be okay with me releasing the whole spreadsheet (it's actually a txt file tho). If a mod gave the okay I would, though.

I sure hope you get permission. I'd be so interested to see these. :)

Thanks jett!!
s÷rine
Banned
(01-29-2015, 03:46 AM)
I'm eager to see someone tackle MD/Genesis hardware. The wikipedia figure that keeps getting pushed seems sort of dubious.
Anth0ny
Member
(01-29-2015, 03:50 AM)
Anth0ny's Avatar
Great thread idea. It'll be nice to have some concrete, correct information to refer to that is all in one place.
Bruno MB
Member
(01-29-2015, 03:55 AM)
Bruno MB's Avatar
Great thread, BKK!

You're a walking encyclopedia when it comes to video game industry sales.
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 11:27 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by s÷rine

I'm eager to see someone tackle MD/Genesis hardware. The wikipedia figure that keeps getting pushed seems sort of dubious.

The more "up to date" figure that I consider official is 30.75M (source: CESA White Paper).
My guess is that s LTD through March '96 because that's when Sega discontinued MD worldwide.
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 03:35 PM)

Originally Posted by BKK

Problem solved?

It seems that it was the previous year that was erroneous.

I see what Sega did here now. Quoting Aquamarine from this thread.

However, there is one caveat that needs mentioning. Nintendo informed me that there are two types of accounting when it comes to historical recording of their sales: consolidated, and non-consolidated. "Non-consolidated" sales recording refers to the recording of shipments from Nintendo Co. Ltd.'s domestic inventory in Kyoto, Japan to the inventories of their wholly-owned subsidiaries around the world.

For the year ending 2000 03 Sega used "Non-consolidated" sales for their shipments to their subsidiaries and distributors outside of Japan/Asia. This enabled them to be able to report more impressive figures than if they had used "Consolidated" sales. However, it created an issue in the next financial year as there was still lots of inventory left over in NA (400k) and EU (340k) from the previous FY. Six months (thanks Celine) into the next financial year SoE still had 110k of inventory from the previous FY, and SoA had shipped just 200k more. Sega then switched to consolidated sales so that they could report shipments from their subsidiaries and distributors to retailers.

Code:

    	      Japan	 North America   Europe     Asia      World       Sum Total
    1999 03   900,000	       -	    -        -	        900,000     900,000
    2000 03   950,000    2,100,000        700,000   160,000   3,910,000   4,810,000
    2001 03   470,000    1,780,000        930,000   210,000   3,390,000   8,200,000
    2001 09   130,000      530,000                                        8,860,000                                             
    2002 03*   40,000      230,000	                                  9,130,000
    Total   2,490,000    4,640,000      1,630,000   370,000   9,130,000
*Forecast

Code:

	  Japan	     North America  Europe     Asia	 World      Sum Total
1999 03	  900,000	   -	       -        -	   900,000    900,000
2000 03	  950,000    2,100,000        700,000  160,000   3,910,000  4,810,000
2000 12   280,000    1,350,000        560,000  130,000   2,320,000  7,130,000
Remain.   280,000    1,200,000        460,000   90,000   2,030,000  9,160,000
Total   2,410,000    4,650,000      1,720,000  380,000   9,160,000
So there's still the minor issue of a 30k discrepancy between inventory and forecast sales along with the Nikkei report.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/big...h-sega--265113

Bigben Interactive signs Dreamcast deal with Sega

Thursday 12 April 2001 | 00:00 CET | News

Bigben Interactive (Lesquin, France), independent manufacturer and distributor of video games console accessories, has signed an agreement with Sega (Japan) to become the exclusive distributor of Dreamcast consoles, software and accessories in Europe. Europe already has an installed Dreamcast base of 1.2 mil units, with Sega set to launch over 100 new games for the console shortly. The contract will generate revenue of around FFr330 mil for Bigben in the FY to 31 March 2002, from total sales of FFr1.18 bil, up from FFr706.1 mil in the year-earlier period.

This really shows just how much worse Dreamcast was doing than official figures suggested. For the FY ending 2001 03 they had shipped just 160k more units to retailers in Europe than the 1.04m the shipped to Europe in the launch FY. This means that Bigben would have taken on about 430k units of inventory for the European region.
BKK
Member
(01-29-2015, 04:06 PM)

Originally Posted by Celine

The more "up to date" figure that I consider official is 30.75M (source: CESA White Paper).
My guess is that s LTD through March '96 because that's when Sega discontinued MD worldwide.

They discontinued Most of their legacy hardware then, but not Mega Drive.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/seg...e-range--79620

SEGA TRIMS HARDWARE RANGE
Tuesday 16 April 1996 | 00:00 CET | News

Sega has trimmed its hardware portfolio with the discontinuation of the Master System, Mega CD, 32X and the Game Gear systems, to offer only the 16-bit Mega Drive, Saturn and the Pico early learning toy.

And the same news from Sega Power Issue 80;



It's interesting to note that whilst SoE was done with the SMS by then there were still a few minor European distributors supporting the SMS who were then supplied by Brazil's Tectoy who were still manufacturing SMS. Tectoy manufactured 50Hz hardware along with software was officially sold in both Portugal and Greece for the 1996 holiday season. Samsung who also manufactured SMS was still supporting it in South Korea too, but it seems that 1996 was the last year of official support there.

This is where it gets difficult to get total Sega console hardware shipments, they were pretty liberal with licensing it out to other hardware manufacturers.

Anyway, here's some South Korean shipments. Samsung was Sega's distributor and manufactured the hardware themselves, Hyundai were Nintendo's partner, whilst Daewoo manufactured a range of popular MSX based consoles under the Zemmix brand.

Code:

                                          1989      1990      1991      1992      1993    LTD 
Samsung Gam*Boy/Aladdinboy (SMS)       130,000   180,000   160,000   180,000    80,000    730,000
Hyundai Comboy  (NES)                   20,000    80,000   100,000   110,000    50,000    360,000
Samsung Super Gam*Boy/Aladdinboy (MD)        -    43,000    51,000    76,000    24,000    194,000
Hyundai Super Comboy (SNES)                  -         -         -    20,000    60,000     80,000
Original source; An early 1994 issue of Korean magazine Game World.

Also from the same poster;

Daewoo Zemmix (MSX): 415,000 units until fall 1990
Celine
Member
(01-29-2015, 06:16 PM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by BKK

They discontinued Most of their legacy hardware then, but not Mega Drive.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/seg...e-range--79620

My mistake then.

Originally Posted by BKK


For the year ending 2000 03 Sega used "Non-consolidated" sales for their shipments to their subsidiaries and distributors outside of Japan/Asia. This enabled them to be able to report more impressive figures than if they had used "Consolidated" sales. However, it created an issue in the next financial year as there was still lots of inventory left over in NA (400k) and EU (340k) from the previous FY. Six months (thanks Celine) into the next financial year SoE still had 110k of inventory from the previous FY, and SoA had shipped just 200k more. Sega then switched to consolidated sales so that they could report shipments from their subsidiaries and distributors to retailers.

Yeah, that must be what happened.
I was thinking to that Aquamarine post too yesterday.
A Black Falcon
Member
(01-29-2015, 10:43 PM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar
The biggest problem with that 30.75 million Genesis number is that it would not include the about 2 million Genesises Majesco sold in 1998 in the US, or the 2-3 million Megadrives sold by TecToy in Brazil. Any TecToy Megadrives which have cartridge ports certainly should count! And I don't know if it includes the Sega Nomad, either, though I don't think there are any accurate estimates to how much the Nomad actually sold (I don't believe the "1 million" number that is out there, that sounds MUCH too high). And if it really is just sales as of early 1996, it wouldn't include US Genesis systems from 1996 and 1997 either; Sega of America waws supporting the system, after all, even if Sega of Japan wasn't; the last new Genesis games from Sega of America released by fall '97 (three sports games and The Lost World: Jurassic Park). Sales were slower than previous years, and well below what the SNES sold in those years, but it WAS still selling something.

I think that the "40 million" number some say the Genesis sold (see Wikipedia for example) is too high, but 30.75 million is too low.

Originally Posted by BKK

I see what Sega did here now. Quoting Aquamarine from this thread.



For the year ending 2000 03 Sega used "Non-consolidated" sales for their shipments to their subsidiaries and distributors outside of Japan/Asia. This enabled them to be able to report more impressive figures than if they had used "Consolidated" sales. However, it created an issue in the next financial year as there was still lots of inventory left over in NA (400k) and EU (340k) from the previous FY. Six months (thanks Celine) into the next financial year SoE still had 110k of inventory from the previous FY, and SoA had shipped just 200k more. Sega then switched to consolidated sales so that they could report shipments from their subsidiaries and distributors to retailers.

Code:

	  Japan	     North America  Europe     Asia	 World      Sum Total
1999 03	  900,000	   -	       -        -	   900,000    900,000
2000 03	  950,000    2,100,000        700,000  160,000   3,910,000  4,810,000
2001 03	  470,000    1,780,000	      930,000  210,000   3,390,000  8,200,000
2001 09   130,000      530,000                                      8,860,000                                             
2002 03*   40,000      230,000	                                    9,130,000
Total   2,490,000    4,640,000      1,630,000  370,000   9,130,000
*Forecast

Code:

	  Japan	     North America  Europe     Asia	 World      Sum Total
1999 03	  900,000	   -	       -        -	   900,000    900,000
2000 03	  950,000    2,100,000        700,000  160,000   3,910,000  4,810,000
2000 12   280,000    1,350,000        560,000  130,000   2,320,000  7,130,000
Remain.   280,000    1,200,000        460,000   90,000   2,030,000  9,160,000
Total   2,410,000    4,650,000      1,720,000  380,000   9,160,000
So there's still the minor issue of a 30k discrepancy between inventory and forecast sales along with the Nikkei report.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/big...h-sega--265113



This really shows just how much worse Dreamcast was doing than official figures suggested. For the FY ending 2001 03 they had shipped just 160k more units to retailers in Europe than the 1.04m the shipped to Europe in the launch FY. This means that Bigben would have taken on about 430k units of inventory for the European region.

Great detective work here! This has to be what happened. But yeah, why the discrepancies in total? I mean, in the lower "actual sales" chart, Japanese sales are 80,000 below what the shipment chart above claims were produced; US sales are 10,000 above; European sales are 90,000 above; and Asia sales are 10,000 above. This adds up to that 30,000 overall difference you mention, but it's more than 30,000 because you're adding 90,000 and subtracting 80,000 -- significant numbers there.

Still though, great work. It gets us much closer to an accurate DC sales total.
Celine
Member
(01-30-2015, 10:24 AM)
Celine's Avatar
As I said before I regard 9.13M as the definitive LTD for DC since it's the more "up to date" number Sega provided and I doubt Sega itself would do mistakes when reporting their own shipments or inventory (there could be some discrepancies like when citing "consolidated" shipments instead of "non consolidated" and viceversa but unlikely errors).

Originally Posted by BKK

This is where it gets difficult to get total Sega console hardware shipments, they were pretty liberal with licensing it out to other hardware manufacturers.

It's not just that.
If we had a Sega total shipment for their older systems then that would be a good starting point (of course then there would be the issue for the shipments from other licensees).
Unfortunately outside of CESA White Paper I haven't seen any source giving MD late total shipment directly from Sega (there is also *that* Famitsu article though it reported LTD until FY93) .
Even the brief "reports" for FY 96 and FY97 on the old japanese Sega IR site seems to not talk about the MD.

Now that I think about it, probably in some Famitsu issues there are Sega total shipment numbers for the later years during the 16 bit generation.
Captain Smoker
"Hey! What's your name
  then?"
"Mancomb Seepgood."
(01-30-2015, 10:34 AM)
Captain Smoker's Avatar
Here's also something I've found.

If anyone here knows the company Infocom (I didn't, therefore, here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infocom), they produced some of the earliest interactive fiction games like Zork (and Activision aquired them at some point).


Here are their sales numbers for their games:



Phediuk
Micro-Member
(01-30-2015, 10:52 AM)
Good thread.

It blows my mind that there still aren't reliable numbers for the Genesis/MD.
1st Course
Member
(01-30-2015, 10:54 AM)
1st Course's Avatar
Since we're talking sales accuracy, how accurate are the Sonic Genesis/Mega Drive numbers? According to Wikipedia the first game sold over 15 million on Genesis alone. That sounds way too much given what I see in this thread about Genesis sales being ~30m.
Phediuk
Micro-Member
(01-30-2015, 10:56 AM)

Originally Posted by 1st Course

Since we're talking sales accuracy, how accurate are the Sonic Genesis/Mega Drive numbers? According to Wikipedia the first game sold over 15 million on Genesis alone. That sounds way too much given what I see in this thread about Genesis sales being ~30m.

30m figure doesn't include late US sales (96-97) or any sales from Majesco or Tectoy.

Also, take any Genesis software sales info with a big grain of salt. 15m for Sonic 1 sounds too high if Sonic 2 sold 6m. I mean, I could believe that Sonic 1 outsold 2, but not by that much.
allan-bh
Member
(01-30-2015, 11:03 AM)
allan-bh's Avatar

Originally Posted by jett

I have NPD data for all PS1, DC and N64 software up to 2003 (from back when the entire spreadsheet would leak here), which might as well be LTD for these consoles...but I'm guessing I'm not allowed to post it here. :P

Interesting tidbit: The N64 had 23 million sellers. The PS1... 69. Probably more if a few games kept on selling past 2003.

Oh and the DC? One. :P

Very interesting data. I have the Dreamcast one, but I've never seen PS1 and N64.
Celine
Member
(01-30-2015, 11:06 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by 1st Course

Since we're talking sales accuracy, how accurate are the Sonic Genesis/Mega Drive numbers? According to Wikipedia the first game sold over 15 million on Genesis alone. That sounds way too much given what I see in this thread about Genesis sales being ~30m.

The point is there isn't any problem of accuracy when talking about shipment data (because the publisher/manufacturer accounting department know exactly how many units are shipped out).

The problem is that Sega, contrary to Nintendo for which there is an extensive array of shipment data available, never shared (at least not in the last 15 years) much shipment data for their older system HW/SW.

So really the point is the quality of the source (if it's Sega shipment data then you are set).

Originally Posted by allan-bh

Very interesting data. I have the Dreamcast one, but I've never seen PS1 and N64.

Data is still available with a quick google search ;-)

Originally Posted by Phediuk

It blows my mind that there still aren't reliable numbers for the Genesis/MD.

There are reliable numbers for MD, for that I mean there is Sega official shipment data.
But there are problems with the two reliable sources:
1) One (known Famitsu article) refers LTD until FY93 which is slightly after mid generation.
2) The final LTD reported in CESA White Paper is unclear until what FY was taken.
allan-bh
Member
(01-30-2015, 11:20 AM)
allan-bh's Avatar

Originally Posted by Celine


Data is still available with a quick google search ;-)

I found only Dreamcast data on Google. maybe you can give me a hint on how to search ;-)
Celine
Member
(01-30-2015, 11:21 AM)
Celine's Avatar

Originally Posted by allan-bh

I found only Dreamcast data on Google. maybe you can give me a hint on how to search ;-)

"MISCHIEF MAKERS 205"
allan-bh
Member
(01-30-2015, 11:31 AM)
allan-bh's Avatar

Originally Posted by Celine

"MISCHIEF MAKERS 205"

Yes, I found. Thanks.
sixteen-bit
Member
(01-30-2015, 02:23 PM)
Tekken 3's wikipedia page says it sold 8.5 million units. Anyone have data backing this up? I think it would make it the best selling, non-Smash, fighting game.
Tizoc
Member
(01-30-2015, 02:29 PM)
Tizoc's Avatar
I'm confused a bit; did the Dreamcast ship near 10 mil. units or did it SELL 10 mil. units?
allan-bh
Member
(01-30-2015, 02:38 PM)
allan-bh's Avatar

Originally Posted by Tizoc

I'm confused a bit; did the Dreamcast ship near 10 mil. units or did it SELL 10 mil. units?

9.13m is the final shipment and at this point is also the final sold number.
A Black Falcon
Member
(01-31-2015, 05:04 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar

Originally Posted by Celine

As I said before I regard 9.13M as the definitive LTD for DC since it's the more "up to date" number Sega provided and I doubt Sega itself would do mistakes when reporting their own shipments or inventory (there could be some discrepancies like when citing "consolidated" shipments instead of "non consolidated" and viceversa but unlikely errors).

I agree, and the 10,000 unit differences are easy enough to explain various ways, but -80,000 in Japan and +90,000 in Europe are weird, those are larger changes... I'd think consolidated vs. non-consolidated could only decrease sales, not increase them, and that since Japan is the home region it wouldn't be affected by that -- all systems sent out of the warehouse for Japan went to retailers, yes?

BKK's explanation at the top of the thread is that Sega sold 110,000 systems marked for overseas in Japan instead, but how does the discovery of the change in reporting practices affect that? I'd think it would.

It's not just that.
If we had a Sega total shipment for their older systems then that would be a good starting point (of course then there would be the issue for the shipments from other licensees).
Unfortunately outside of CESA White Paper I haven't seen any source giving MD late total shipment directly from Sega (there is also *that* Famitsu article though it reported LTD until FY93) .
Even the brief "reports" for FY 96 and FY97 on the old japanese Sega IR site seems to not talk about the MD.

Now that I think about it, probably in some Famitsu issues there are Sega total shipment numbers for the later years during the 16 bit generation.

Yeah, finding a definitely accurate Genesis sales total seems somewhat impossible. My guess is 35-36 million, more if you count licensed clone systems which can't play cartridges.

Originally Posted by Phediuk

30m figure doesn't include late US sales (96-97) or any sales from Majesco or Tectoy.

Also, take any Genesis software sales info with a big grain of salt. 15m for Sonic 1 sounds too high if Sonic 2 sold 6m. I mean, I could believe that Sonic 1 outsold 2, but not by that much.

~35 million, not 30 million, Genesises sold. And as for Sonic, didn't almost everyone who owned a Genesis, in the US at least, have Sonic? It's an incredibly common game... and I wonder, it probably doesn't, but would the Genesis 6-pak numbers be included there (since Sonic is on that cart), or not? Or does that 15 million number also include other ports, like how Nintendo's "18 million copies of Mario 3 sold" number apparently includes ports as well as the original NES game (which sold amazingly, but not 18 million; 11 million US+JP, not sure about Europe).

Thread Tools