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I think I'm going to start hate-playing NISA games

D

Dr. Black Jack

Member
So, NIS America.

Ever since my wife started playing Disgaea ten years ago their games have just done nothing for me. There was a Makai Kingdom trailer that interested me enough to preorder the game, but I never played it before gifting it away. My wife fell off after being disappointed with Disgaea 2, and we haven't had any major contact with their games since outside of laughing about how many ridiculously titled Atelier games get released. I'd occasionally read up on a new game, decide that the gameplay looked stale and janky and the dialogue was too juvenile/hamfisted, and skip it as usual.

A few days ago I realized something: maybe that's the entire point.

Growing up, JRPGs were the golden pinnacle of gaming for me. They usually had the best graphics, the grandest stories, the most beautiful soundtracks; if one made it over at all it was something to be celebrated and I loved it. Then NISA games came along and ran contrary to all of that. Games with samey gameplay, forgettable MIDI tracks and mediocre graphics pumped out as fast as they could be translated. They weren't grandiose or revolutionary; they just took SRPG framework, slapped some anime graphics on top and called it a day. It ran contrary to the pedestal that I had placed the entire genre on, and it burned me out on JRPGs in general.

But you know what, past me? That's bullshit. We have a weekly ritual of inviting my buddy over and watching so-bad-they're-good movies on Netflix. We are currently running through Ride to Hell for kicks, and I even bought the DLC. We love playing terrible jank in every form of entertainment we consume...why should JRPGs be any different? Why does every one have to be this life-changing experience that takes years to craft? I want some grindhouse JRPGs. I want something that purposely makes me cringe and doesn't try to be anything more than what it is. I need some jank in my life.

Grabbing The Witch and The Hundred Knight and Mugen Souls Z after work. let's do this
 
sakipon

sakipon

Member
Sounds like you've got too much time in your hands. Badly reviewed or mediocre games can be okay when they do offer something to you, but not sure that's the case here.
 
E

Earthpainting

Member
I fear the flaw in your plan is that NISA games are not bad enough for this to work. You're just going to drain yourself playing boring games you won't like without much pay-off. Ride to Hell and 3D Sonic may be more up your alley. Then you have games like Deadly Premonition and Disaster which are a different kind of bad, but still have a lot to offer if you open yourself up to them.

Burning Vigor Attack said:
You must absolutely play Star Ocean IV then! (even if it's not a NISA game).
Click to expand...
This is also a good one, and has bonus points for being the genre the OP is interested in. As infuriating as any single aspect of its presentation is, Star Ocean IV is actually a well-made game and pretty fun if you can endure the surface.
 
M

Mexican Sting

Member
Man, I don't think I've ever heard this term before. But I just realized that I was doing that when I played God of War 2 a couple weeks ago.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Dr. Black Jack said:
Then NISA games came along and ran contrary to all of that. Games with samey gameplay, forgettable MIDI tracks and mediocre graphics pumped out as fast as they could be translated. They weren't grandiose or revolutionary; they just took SRPG framework, slapped some anime graphics on top and called it a day. It ran contrary to the pedestal that I had placed the entire genre on, and it burned me out on JRPGs in general.
Click to expand...

So... you're blaming the "fall of JRPG" to NISA, a localization/publication company that you only loved one game of?

How were they responsible for the "abandonment" of Suikoden, Seiken Densetsu, Chrono Trigger/etc, Breath of Fire, Lunar, Wild Arms, Grandia, <insert RPG that disappeared to thin air here>?

Is NISA actually the Fire Nation?
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Dr. Black Jack said:
Growing up, JRPGs were the golden pinnacle of gaming for me. They usually had the best graphics, the grandest stories, the most beautiful soundtracks; if one made it over at all it was something to be celebrated and I loved it. Then NISA games came along and ran contrary to all of that. Games with samey gameplay, forgettable MIDI tracks and mediocre graphics pumped out as fast as they could be translated. They weren't grandiose or revolutionary; they just took SRPG framework, slapped some anime graphics on top and called it a day. It ran contrary to the pedestal that I had placed the entire genre on, and it burned me out on JRPGs in general.
Click to expand...

Finally, someone else gets it. And they aren't even GOOD anime graphics!

But you know what, past me? That's bullshit. We have a weekly ritual of inviting my buddy over and watching so-bad-they're-good movies on Netflix. We are currently running through Ride to Hell for kicks, and I even bought the DLC. We love playing terrible jank in every form of entertainment we consume...why should JRPGs be any different? Why does every one have to be this life-changing experience that takes years to craft? I want some grindhouse JRPGs. I want something that purposely makes me cringe and doesn't try to be anything more than what it is. I need some jank in my life.
Click to expand...

....But you on your own here, bro. I refuse to give them a dime. I don't begrudge their existence and I won't bust someone's balls for playing them, but they get no support from me. I'll save that for other games.


ATXAlchemy said:
So... you're blaming the "fall of JRPG" to NISA, a localization/publication company that you only loved one game of?

How were they responsible for the "abandonment" of Suikoden, Seiken Densetsu, Chrono Trigger/etc, Breath of Fire, Lunar, Wild Arms, Grandia, <insert RPG that disappeared to thin air here>?

Is NISA actually the Fire Nation?
Click to expand...

I used to blame them, but then I realized that wasn't really logical. My game series (just about all the ones you mentioned) disappeared because of mismanagement by their OWN developers/publishers. That said, I still dislike THOSE games because they fail to take the place of the franchises I love. I didn't just want new installments of series I loved--I wanted new IPs. I just, didn't want them with all the NIS/Gust staples.
 
D

Dr. Black Jack

Member
Burning Vigor Attack said:
You must absolutely play Star Ocean IV then! (even if it's not a NISA game).
Click to expand...

It's on the list for sure. Yes, I have a list.

CureVylash said:
hate playing is stupid
Click to expand...

I disagree. Some of my favorite movie watching experiences are ripping on terrible movies with friends.

ATXAlchemy said:
So... you're blaming the "fall of JRPG" to NISA, a localization/publication company that you only loved one game of?

How were they responsible for the "abandonment" of Suikoden, Seiken Densetsu, Chrono Trigger/etc, Breath of Fire, Lunar, Wild Arms, Grandia, <insert RPG that disappeared to thin air here>?

Is NISA actually the Fire Nation?
Click to expand...

I originally had a bit in the OP about that. All of the JRPG franchises I grew up with either went into dormancy or got delayed into oblivion, and their spots being filled by NISA games burned me out. It's not really NISA's fault bur I judged them anyway.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Dr. Black Jack said:
Grabbing The Witch and The Hundred Knight and Mugen Souls Z after work. let's do this
Click to expand...
Unless you're suicidal I can't recommend that anyone do that to him or herself. Ever. Under any circumstances. That's beyond hate-playing.

It's a shame you've had a falling out with the Atelier games because they've actually turned into decent "game" games; as in high enough production values for any normal title and not just JRPG levels of expectations. Every game that's not Atelier or Disgaea is essentially the exact same game using 90% the same assets with the same battle systems only tweaked slightly. For now.
 
D

Dr. Black Jack

Member
aspiegamer said:
Unless you're suicidal I can't recommend that anyone do that to him or herself. Ever. Under any circumstances. That's beyond hate-playing.

It's a shame you've had a falling out with the Atelier games because they've actually turned into decent "game" games; as in high enough production values for any normal title and not just JRPG levels of expectations. Every game that's not Atelier or Disgaea is essentially the exact same game using 90% the same assets with the same battle systems only tweaked slightly. For now.
Click to expand...

My wife was SUPER PISSED that the publisher pulled a bait-and-switch with the first game and never delivered her preorder OST. She played it for a while then sold it out of spite since the OST was the best part of the game.

Despera said:
Didn't know "hate playing" was a thing. Seems pointless.
Click to expand...

It's basically doing MST3K but with games. We get together once a week and usually end up picking a trashy entertainment product to mock. Sarcasm is our lifeblood.

I told my buddy about that one scene in Hundred Knight and he immediate wanted to hate-play it.
 
P

PixyJunket

Member
I always wanted to hate play Final Fantasy VIII or X but every time I attempt it, I get sick to my stomach and soul and quit very early.

Probably for the better, but I always felt like I could hate these games better if I was able to play them just a little more.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Don't confuse Mugen souls (IF game, and one of the worst) for being an NIS game like Disgaea (which is great) just because NISA localized both
 
L

Leafhopper

Banned
7DollarHagane said:
I bought a few of their games in the mid 2000s and hated them and haven't bought one since.. Phantom brave?
Click to expand...

Phantom Brave was my first NIS game. Me being ignorant I thought it was going to be very similar to Disgaea. Turns out, at that time I got one of the harder NIS games and one of my friends that puts hundreds of hours into various Disgaea games told me years later that even she had trouble with that game.

Safe to say I haven't played too many NIS games. If we are talking my first published NIS game I played, that would be Altelier Iris 1.
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
I've really enjoyed the NISA games I've played.

The only ones I've played though are Disgaea 4, Atelier Rorona, and Sakura Wars: So Long My Love.

None of them were in a "so bad it's good" way either.
 
E

E_Darkness

Member
NISA is the reason that Europe gets some games. So I'm thankful for them.

Though I don't understand while you'd play something you actually hate. I haven't even touched the Disgaea series because I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I understand playing a bad game for a laugh, but playing JRPGs for the same kick? Eh. Star Ocean 4 is probably for you.
 
C

CrazyArcadia

Member
I must admit that I can't get into most NISA games for similiar reasons as OP stated, either. Both their own NIS localisations as well as some other games they publish in the US and PAL regions. Tried Disgaea, it just isn't for me. Even though I can see the underlying game mechanics being interesting, the style and story-telling seems a bit off to me. Recently tried Disgaea 4 on the Vita, and while it was amusing, it quickly got old and annoying.

I am a big fan of both Danganronpa and Demon Gaze, though. The latter is almost a grindhouse-like JRPG in that it feels like early 90s Japanese computer RPGs in setting and tone: Enough strange humour, fanservice and ultimate somethings to put off many people in advance (and, on the other hand, attract others), yet a simple, but satisfying dungeon and battle system. Also, a surprisingly cool OST. That was by Experience Inc., they are quite the experts for dungeon crawling. Operation Abyss: New Tokyo Legacy from the same people will be released this year by NISA as well - it's cyberpunk'ish so maybe try that if you've got a Vita. Speaking of handhelds, there was one Disgaea spinoff which I loved, and that was the Prinny platform series on PSP. For that series, IMO the style and humour worked out great.

I understand playing strange, maybe even bad games similiar to watching B-movies is a cool thing, but I'd suggest you start with shorter titles. Disgaea games are usually quite long and get very complex, and maybe that could be offputting and frustrating after a certain point. Watching a B-movie takes 2 hours and it's over, so it's not taking that much time away from other things. Playing SRPGs and JRPGs can take between 50 and 100 hours. Just saying, use your time wisely, otherwise you might begin burning out on the genre in general.

In that regard, I might suggest maybe playing some of the Ar Tonelico series. They have absolutely bullshit storylines and annoying anime tropes everywhere (I actually played the first one with a friend, and we were super annoyed by some things. Like, there was a scene where the group could not advance in a dungeon several times in a row, and EVERYTIME they decided to go back to the inn to think about how to advance. I think this happend in that same dungeon 3 times, god was that annoying since you had to walk all the way, all the time. It became a "so bad it's good" running gag for us. "Let's go back to the inn and think about it" :D). But the OSTs are supreme, really, and Ar Tonelico 2 has a honestly great battle system underneath all of its other shortcomings. I'm not sure how you are about handheld gaming, but I greatly enjoyed both Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier and Project X Zone not despite, but for their over-the-top B-movie storylines and fanservice. They're not too long, and the battle systems, while hit or miss for many people, were greatly enjoyable to me as well as the OST and the tongue-in-cheek humour. I would even go so far and call Endless Frontier my favorite JRPG experience on the Nintendo DS since it really was lots of fun for me even though objectively much better games are available.
 
M

Midnight Bliss

Member
I agree that I haven't enjoyed a single NIS game and they've been the complete opposite of what makes you feel good about gaming so their rage inducing potential is very high.

But don't clump atelier in with NIS, atelier on ps3 is the first time gust has made anything worthwhile. Those are gust games when gust finally got good. Maybe NIS will finally find their mark and get good like gust? Who knows.
 
M

Mytherin

Neo Member
I don't think NIS games fall into the "so bad they're good" category. They're mostly just average and take way too long to play through. I don't think they're bad games but there are way too many good games to play before I would consider spending 80 hours playing an average and boring JRPG.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
Hate playing won't work like hate watching something. Hate watching a bad movie usually takes 90 minutes to 2 and 1/2 hours of your life and all you need to do is be present and preferably drunk. Hate playing a game requires your effort to move forward and typically takes several times more of your life to complete (especially if you are going to hateplay a series known for it's grindiness).

I enjoy watching a lot of bad movies and the worst, least enjoyable ones are the slow-paced and repetitive ones. Even if these games are bad enough to laugh at you won't be laughing 8 hours in.
 
S

scamander

Banned
So, if you guys say most of the NISA games are mediocre, does that include Atlus' games? (Those are published in the US by Nisa, right?)
 
V

Volcynika

Member
scamander said:
So, if you guys say most of the NISA games are mediocre, does that include Atlus' games? (Those are published in the US by Nisa, right?)
Click to expand...

Um, Atlus USA publishes Atlus games here (and a couple here and there in EU), and NISA has published Atlus games in EU. Not in the US.
 
N

Novocaine

Member
Good luck man.

I couldn't do it myself though, I already have enough trouble making time for all the games I love, let alone playing shit I know I'll hate.
 
B

Beartruck

Member
Dr. Black Jack said:
My wife was SUPER PISSED that the publisher pulled a bait-and-switch with the first game and never delivered her preorder OST. She played it for a while then sold it out of spite since the OST was the best part of the game.
Click to expand...

Good news then. If you hate the publisher then you'll be comforted to know that the Atelier series is now published by Koei Tecmo.
 
S

Suzushiiro

Banned
Keep in mind that there are NISA's sort of a weird hybrid company in that while they're technically an American branch of a Japanese developer, they also independently pick up and localize works that were not made by said developer, much like XSeed and Aksys do. So it's not quite correct to lump games like Disgaea and Witch and the Hundred Night with games like Neptunia and Atelier.

Of course, most of the major non-NIS series that NISA was originally localizing (Atelier, Neptunia) are now handled by American branches of the Japanese developers or their parent companies (KT and Idea Factory.) Imageepoch and Compile Heart seem to be the only developers that they regularly localize games from that still do it through them.

scamander said:
So, if you guys say most of the NISA games are mediocre, does that include Atlus' games? (Those are published in the US by Nisa, right?)
Click to expand...

No, Atlus has always localized their own games in the US. In fact, they were the ones who localized the original Disgaea, back before NIS had an American branch. NISA has published some of Atlus' games in Europe, though, that's probably what you're thinking of.
 
T

tokkun

Member
I don't think JRPGs generally work well for this because they are so repetitive and system-oriented. I'm sure you can have a lot of fun with Ar Tonelico's cut scenes, but you are going to spend 90% of your time in combat.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
Games with samey gameplay, forgettable MIDI tracks
Click to expand...

This is from not playing Makai Kingdom and Phantom Brave. Those are their legit love-playing pinnacle there.

As for me, I have my own reason they've fallen out of favor with me recently, but this isn't my thread.
 
O

ohlawd

Member
what the fuck did you say about Atelier?

NISA hasn't put out anything good since losing Atelier. Leave Atelier alone, don't group that goodness with the other trash NISA localizes
 
L

lazyproblems

Member
I get playing things like Ride to Hell. That can actually be funny, especially with friends. But I don't really think any of these other games are going to be hugely hilarious or popular at your gatherings. Have fun though, I guess.
 
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