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According to NY Times writer Video Gamers are "niche fetishists" and Wii saved us all

M

milanbaros

Member?
The industry has experienced fast growth for over 20 years now.

I believe every generation from the NES has opened it up to a wider group of consumers, especially the Playstation and Wii and less so the SNES and Megadrive.

The Wii is just continuing this pattern. The playstation probably did just as much to 'save' the industry.


1G - 76m - 13m (SMS) + 63m (NES)
2G - 78m - 29m (SMD) + 49m (SNES)
3G - 152m - 17m (SS) + 33m (N64) + 102m (PS)
4G - 189m - 11m (DC) + 22m (NGC) + 132m* (PS2) + 24m (Xbox)

*Still being manufactured
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Acosta said:
Wii Sports comes with every Wii (outside of Japan), maybe it was pivotal for the success of Wii but it's performance on retailers as a stand alone is unproven. I like to talk about reality with solid facts.
Click to expand...


Yeah you're right, I'm sure the Wii is still selling out 1.5 years after its launch because of the radically different Zelda and Mario games. I'm sure that's it. Oh and its only 250 dollars too.
 
P

PnCIa

Member
What the hell, they wouldn´t let some clueless person talk about stock options...but why are they allowing this with video gaming? :lol
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
PnCIa said:
What the hell, they wouldn´t let some clueless person talk about stock options...but why are they allowing this with video gaming? :lol
Click to expand...

Because he's not clueless. The writer wrote a profile on Miyamoto. Just because some niche fetishists who grab their pitchforks and torches anytime Nintendo is mentioned, in a positive light, or they see "their" hobby under attack by people who actually go outside, doesn't mean the author is clueless.
 
W

WrathOfOtaibah

Banned
The industry is still somewhat new and is growing.

Gaming was mostly for niche fetishists, which is why there were so many failed console ventures. This is the first generation where all consoles have viability to last until the end. In the past, there was always at least a machine that could only last 2-3 years before fading out entirely.

The Wii has tapped into new demographics. Which was necessary since the new consoles here are merely evolutions, expensive evolutions that have experimental disc media formats (nobody knew how Bluray would turn out), and an overemphasis on a resolution size that is inaccessible to most Americans and Europeans. While 360 and PS3 are fine, if Nintendo merely put out a HD Game Cube, the industry would be having problems overall with sales compared to the previous generation.

The Wii is far from a perfect console but most consumers are going to the Wii. Most internet nerds are so desperate trying to illegitimize (I know it isn't a word) the system's success and at the same time, are puzzled why PS3 and 360 are neck and neck...and far behind the Wii. It appears that increased interactivity is the future, not pretty graphics.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
This should be retitled "NY Times' SETH SCHIESEL Gives Miyamoto a Giant Blow Job."

That'd be way more accurate.

And one look at the sales and demographics associated with Guitar Hero should pretty much destroy all notions of videogames being the realm of "niche fetishists." And this occurred WAY BEFORE the Wii came along to "save gaming" from the "fetishists" or whatever. So not only does this reporter look foolish for drooling over a celebrity and writing a laborious-to-read puff-piece, this reporter proves himself to be an idiot.

The New York Times needs someone in the office who knows games.
 
T

TheKingsCrown

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
This should be retitled "NY Times' SETH SCHIESEL Gives Miyamoto a Giant Blow Job."

That'd be way more accurate.

And one look at the sales and demographics associated with Guitar Hero should pretty much destroy all notions of videogames being the realm of "niche fetishists." And this occurred WAY BEFORE the Wii came along to "save gaming" from the "fetishists" or whatever. So not only does this reporter look foolish for drooling over a celebrity and writing a laborious-to-read puff-piece, this reporter proves himself to be an idiot.

The New York Times needs someone in the office who knows games.
Click to expand...
One game, Guitar Hero, does not an argument make. I think it would be difficult to say that Guitar Hero drove monstrous growth in the industry. It certainly drove some growth, but when it came out the consoles it was on were already monsters themselves. It is difficult to see which came first, Guitar Hero, or the PS2. My bet would be on the PS2.
 
A

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Kilrogg said:
*sigh*

Watch the Wii being as fondly remembered as the NES twenty years from now, because "Hey, do you remember Excite Truck and Mario Kart Wii ? Those were the shit, I had so much fun steering the controller!", while the 360 and the PS3 will, at best, be remembered as the NEO-GEOs of their time.

We gamers tend to deny the impact of the Wii just because, this time, we're not being introduced to gaming, and this time, Nintendo's console doesn't come out at a time when the market is more or less dead.

I think the author's words (as well as Nintendo's) when he says that gaming was in trouble shouldn't be taken at face value. It would be more accurate to say "if the Wii and the DS weren't there and the market pursued the trend of HD, Hollywood-like production values and multimedia-driven systems, then it would die sooner or later."

Nintendo basically just said: "Screw it, Eyetoy, Singstar and the likes proved that there's a trend here. We've got to embrace it fully, because if we don't do it now, then maybe someone will do it, or the market will eventually shrink. We've got to follow our original vision, which is that of the NES (easy controls, subpar graphics, peripherals, games and advertising for the family...)."
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can describe the NES as subpar in terms of graphics. Graphics are tough to judge when it's all relational. I relate the DS to it's price and function. I never look at a DS game I'm playing and describe it as 'subpar' at that moment of playing. I can only relate it to being subpar in the context of other games on the machine and other systems. I never thought of them as subpar at the time. So, when you describe that as a part of Nintendo's vision, I kinda disagree.

Their vision seems to revolve around accessability. When you answer a few questions, it seems more and more evident. How to get it into the hands of most consumers and drop their barrier to buy? Lower price, which is directly affected by the level of tech. Most people have a hard time distinguishing between the benefits of higher and higher levels of tech. Some can see the difference btw a 360 and a Wii but the Wii doesn't turn them off and doesn't push them to buy a 360 for the price.

How do you get more people to play the games? Make some of the controls easier to play. Swing that bitch. Take out controlling the player's movement (wii sports). Or just fricken just move your body back and forth (wii fit). Haha, it's too simple. If Nintendo gets 'non-gamers' to buy 4 of those games, they'll be doing themselves a service. Add one or two games by Nintendo that are casual friendly (hey, take this wheel and steer it left or right, it's easy...or take this gun and shoot at objects and begin to fascinate about green elves and help our brand.) then they are already approaching tie ratio's for great game systems.

Online: It's not accesible so don't even worry about it. Focus more on the stuff that'll bring you money (VC).

NES wasn't really about that. Yes, easy controls were a big part of it but Nintendo has always been about that. NES has so many complex games that didn't even think about accessibility (Zelda, which you needed a map from Nintendo power or hours of time to figure out where the dungeons where) that it doesn't have a lot of relation to the Nintendo of today. Today, ninty is refined. NES was just about having fun and trying to grow a business.

And before Eyetoy and Singstar, there was Warioware.
 
A

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Acosta said:
Wii Sports comes with every Wii (outside of Japan), maybe it was pivotal for the success of Wii but it's performance on retailers as a stand alone is unproven. I like to talk about reality with solid facts.
Click to expand...

Reframe the argument and shift the goal posts.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Pristine_Condition said:
And one look at the sales and demographics associated with Guitar Hero should pretty much destroy all notions of videogames being the realm of "niche fetishists."
Click to expand...
I would say that Guitar Hero is successful for the same reason that the Wii and Wii Sports are successful - mainstream/casual gamers like playing games where they feel like they're performing the actions more than games with amazing graphics.

Playing the plastic guitar = swinging the remote as a racket.
 
B

birdchili

Member
Drinky Crow said:
my god i hate the mii bullshit even more than i hate waggle
Click to expand...
interesting that they talk about these right after mentioning that for miyamoto, character design was always secondary to gameplay. miis are, by their very nature, character design divorced from gameplay.
 
D

Death_Born

Banned
birdchili said:
interesting that they talk about these right after mentioning that for miyamoto, character design was always secondary to gameplay. miis are, by their very nature, character design divorced from gameplay.
Click to expand...

To play the devil's advocate...they do look pretty stupid. Especially when putting them in semi-realistic games.
 
W

Weisheit

Junior Member
Acosta said:
Nonsense.

The most successful games this generation are GTA IV, Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4, the core product is and was far from a niche. The "only" thing Nintendo has done is opening the market (and opening the eyes of people so self-righteous that still thought videogames could only cater to young males in search of testosterone). Kudos to Nintendo for that -my only complain is that they could have done the same with a better hardware-, but they didn't save the industry, videogames were out of niche realms for a long time.

Just because a couple journalist are starting to pay attention thanks to Wii doesn't mean the industry was in trouble before, some people in journalism tend to think their reality is equal to the world's reality.
Click to expand...
Based on what? Sales, is that your measuring stick? If so you might be interested to know (given your "I like to talk about reality with solid facts." statement) that Wii Play has outsold all of those games. Whatever the case, if sales are what you're referring to I'd think it wise to wait until the dust has settled to declare "The most successful games this generation".

I do feel very confident however that Wiisports can be declared far more important than the games you mentioned.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
TheKingsCrown said:
One game, Guitar Hero, does not an argument make. I think it would be difficult to say that Guitar Hero drove monstrous growth in the industry. It certainly drove some growth, but when it came out the consoles it was on were already monsters themselves. It is difficult to see which came first, Guitar Hero, or the PS2. My bet would be on the PS2.
Click to expand...

My argument wasn't based on one game. I was just using that one game as an example. I could have used the similar demographics-crossing casual appeal and excellent worldwide sales of Singstar as another example of this as well, but I figured one example was enough for everyone, one silly junior member notwithstanding, obviously.
 
N

Nocebo

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
My argument wasn't based on one game. I was just using that one game as an example. I could have used the similar demographics-crossing casual appeal and excellent worldwide sales of Singstar as another example of this as well, but I figured one example was enough for everyone, one silly junior member notwithstanding, obviously.
Click to expand...
Ok so now you have two examples.:lol
 
B

birdchili

Member
Death_Born said:
To play the devil's advocate...they do look pretty stupid. Especially when putting them in semi-realistic games.
Click to expand...
they don't bug me much, truthfully, but they're giving a lot of games a "sameyness" that's less appealing than an original artistic style would be. i'm likewise less inclined to grab "mario foo" than "original foo" all else being equal.
 
D

dammitmattt

Banned
Weisheit said:
Based on what? Sales, is that your measuring stick? If so you might be interested to know (given your "I like to talk about reality with solid facts." statement) that Wii Play has outsold all of those games. Whatever the case, if sales are what you're referring to I'd think it wise to wait until the dust has settled to declare "The most successful games this generation".

I do feel very confident however that Wiisports can be declared far more important than the games you mentioned.
Click to expand...

Wii Play is a horrible example, and I'm in the Wii Sports being the most successful game camp.
 
R

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Weisheit said:
Based on what? Sales, is that your measuring stick? If so you might be interested to know (given your "I like to talk about reality with solid facts." statement) that Wii Play has outsold all of those games. Whatever the case, if sales are what you're referring to I'd think it wise to wait until the dust has settled to declare "The most successful games this generation".

I do feel very confident however that Wiisports can be declared far more important than the games you mentioned.
Click to expand...

This. Wii Sports has already proven itself to be the definitive game this generation, no other game this generation has moved systems the way it has.
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
skinnyrattler said:
I'm not sure you can describe the NES as subpar in terms of graphics. Graphics are tough to judge when it's all relational. I relate the DS to it's price and function. I never look at a DS game I'm playing and describe it as 'subpar' at that moment of playing. I can only relate it to being subpar in the context of other games on the machine and other systems. I never thought of them as subpar at the time. So, when you describe that as a part of Nintendo's vision, I kinda disagree.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I just phrased it poorly. When I wrote subpar graphics, I meant "subpar compared to what was considered to be standard at the time, i.e. the gaming computers like Amiga (today's equivalent would be PCs, 360 and PS3 today)". Personally, I'd call them "good-enough graphics".

NES wasn't really about that. Yes, easy controls were a big part of it but Nintendo has always been about that. NES has so many complex games that didn't even think about accessibility (Zelda, which you needed a map from Nintendo power or hours of time to figure out where the dungeons where) that it doesn't have a lot of relation to the Nintendo of today. Today, ninty is refined. NES was just about having fun and trying to grow a business.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Well, the thing is, both the NES and the Wii aren't EXCLUSIVELY about easy controls. It's a whole. But to further elaborate my previous point, I mean that the NES had only 2 buttons and a d-pad, while the computers at the time had keyboards and joysticks (plus they were standalone products, they didn't need a TV). Anyway, you're confusing accessibility in terms of interface (which the NES was, as was Zelda) and difficulty in terms of mechanics or lack thereof. Not having a map in Zelda didn't make it any less accessible, really, only harder.

Overall, the parallel between the NES and the Wii seems a lot more obvious to me than it is to you: Power Glove, Power Pad, Zapper, sports games (Tennis for example)... But I agree on your "refined" comment. The Wii is, in a way, the NES as it was intended to be: instead of a gimmicky Power Glove and a gimmicky Power Pad, we've got the Wiimote and the balance board. Say what you want about the Wiimote, but it's a hell of a lot more thoughtfully designed and precise than the Power Glove ever was. Thanks to 20 years of technological progress, experience and experiments, Nintendo has finally been able to complete the concept behind the NES. Now, if only the third parties responded a bit quicker...
 
A

Acosta

Member
Weisheit said:
Based on what? Sales, is that your measuring stick? If so you might be interested to know (given your "I like to talk about reality with solid facts." statement) that Wii Play has outsold all of those games. Whatever the case, if sales are what you're referring to I'd think it wise to wait until the dust has settled to declare "The most successful games this generation".

I do feel very confident however that Wiisports can be declared far more important than the games you mentioned.
Click to expand...

Wii Sport is Wii, and Wii is Wii Sports. At this moment Wii Sport just makes sense as an add on with the console.

The games I mentioned combined the most succesful review scores with the most succesful sales, that make them the most succesful games by measurable ways. Wii Sports is unproven as a stand alone game and its reviews are not so high as the mentioned games. When Wii Sports 2 is released and achieves critical acclaim and spectacular sales, I will say it is among the most succesful games this gen. Outside of that, is just speculation and personal thoughts.

This has nothing to do with the discussion here, so I won't comment about this anymore. My point is that the journalist is wrong, this was not a fetish industry at all for anyone who has payed attention the last years. Looks like a "out of my ass" observation that he doesn't care to justify, probably used to make his point more valid or spectacular. It's not the first journalist that fall in that mistake and he won't be the last.
 
E

Evlar

Banned
2 Minutes Turkish said:
didn't the videogame industry start making more money than the movie industry BEFORE the Wii came along?
Click to expand...
:lol No, the gaming industry never has made more money than the film industry. Not even remotely close.
 
W

wazoo

Member
Kolgar said:
Probably been said many times already, but this is the New York Times we're talking about.
Click to expand...

Wii is something NYT can like because it is based on something you can describe ("move your body" and so on), Wii fit is something healthy to do, and Miyamoto is the kind of people NYT like because you can write stories around him ("Disney of videogames", "Spielberg of the new generation", "he made Zelda by wandering young in his garden, Pikmin by looking at ants in his garden, Nintendogs by looking at his dog, Brain Training because he gets old, Wii fit because he gets fat, and so on)

Much easier to write a massmarket paper around that.
 
M

milanbaros

Member?
Evlar said:
:lol No, the gaming industry never has made more money than the film industry. Not even remotely close.
Click to expand...

I have read that before but you're right. They compare hardware+software revenue versus boxoffice revenue which is not even remotely fair. They should include boxoffice, dvd sales etc and compare it to software sales.
 
H

Haruspex

Banned
'Niche fetishists'? Certainly not. But the 'hardcore' community is very insular, as seen by the hostility towards new gamers and different types of games. I am torn between two minds with gaming at the moment, on one hand I appreciate the approach of Nintendo* and can really relate to how Miyamoto puts across his ideas, the 'Iwata Asks' section on the Nintendo website is full of insight.

Nintendo do the whole 'casual' gaming thing right, they make quality games that gamer and non-gamer can enjoy, exemplified by Endless Ocean or Animal Crossing, whereas third parties who try these sorts of games miss the point completely and in an attempt to reach out to a new audience end up creating niches of their own; namely these horrid Ubisoft games targeted at little girls.

At the same time I really want gaming to evolve into an artform, something I can be proud of and that can move me emotionally. If Nintendo have sewn up the 'games as entertainment' category then who is stepping up to the plate to make 'games as art'? And this is not Nintendo's strategy holding us back from more worthwhile experiences, this is the fault of almost all developers, publishers and the expectations and values of the 'core' community.

I dunno, this post is all over the place, I'm just not sure where I stand with my once beloved hobby.

*Discounting the fact they are a massive corporation raking in the dough...
 
M

Moray

Member
Video games are dying for me. I haven't played a game in a month and I'm surprisingly not missing it much.

The problem with games recently is that they've become increasingly anti-social. I've been playing mostly online games for the last few years but looking back, it just hasn't been as fun as the hours and hours I spent on Goldeneye and Mario Kart back in the day, playing right next to friends and siblings. And it's so embarrassing being caught wearing a headset playing Call of Duty or something (like, for example, when one of my roommates brings a girl home).

The Wii seems to be bucking that trend, so much so that I've been considering trading in my PS3 and 360 for just a Wii that I would only use for offline multiplayer stuff.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
PepsimanVsJoe said:
In all honesty gaming has no future in "better than real life grafix!" so I guess it's just as well. This is how the industry chooses to expand and I for one am all for it.
Click to expand...


Can't we have both? I envision a future where the Wii 7 fills your room with motion sensing reality, but with 480i graphics.


I just want the interesting controls with nice graphics. Even the Wii is demonstrating that it isn't necessarily a platform, but rather a no-frills hub for devices. The box itself does the bare minimum, while Nintendo (and I stress the first party part) will continually introduce new control schemes.

Third parties have very limited success in this arena - Guitar Hero and Rock Band being the exceptions.
 
D

Death_Born

Banned
In all honesty gaming has no future in "better than real life grafix!"
Click to expand...

new consoles here are merely evolutions (...) that have (...) an overemphasis on a resolution size that is inaccessible to most Americans and Europeans.
Click to expand...

Stinkles said:
Can't we have both?
Click to expand...

104q9lh.jpg
 
X

Xavien

Member
Good god, thanks GAF for giving me such a laugh in this thread :lol :lol

We are going to be no longer the prime focus of most video games companies anymore, I've accepted it, the sooner you people do, the better.

No amount of bitching and moaning is going to change it.

oh and he is Right. This thread proves him right.
 
W

WrathOfOtaibah

Banned
I read through the thread and the response from butthurt nerds is hilarious.

If 120 million PS2s were sold, that does not mean that they were actively used. Take away the PS2s that are currently in pawn shops, GameStop and other places, broken either by user or manufacturer, the PS2s that are stashed somewhere in a closet, PS2s that were bought to replace broken ones, ones that are hooked up but not used in years, and the number becomes much smaller.

Niche by definition means a specialized market. If some guy who picked up a Dual Shock started trying to play MGS, how well do you think that he would fare? Not well. Fetishists are those that like certain things. What about systems like Neo Geo that never intended to do well but serve a certain audience? Niche fetishists is pretty dead on. Most of you don't even seem to know or care what the word means. Mainstream gamers don't know or care if some PC RPG uses D&D 4 or whatever the fuck the recent version is. Mainstream gamers will never get to care about the difference between Obscure Fighter X and Obscure Fighter X Reprise Edition Arcade. Mainstream gamers do know how to hit a ball around and drive a kart racer. Simple.

The Mii idea is stupid. However, it isn't for you. It is for little kids, women, and those who are somehow wowed by this technology. It is simple and easily accessible. You can make one in 30 seconds or 30 minutes if you so choose. Some 9 year old might like the fact that you can alter the nose. Nintendo doesn't give a flying fuck about the internet community's response to the Wii, which spends hundreds of hours agonizing whether a game is 665p or 720p.

In fact, nothing Nintendo did was innovative. They just knew how to sell it. It worked.
 
W

wazoo

Member
pswii60 said:
The Wii saved... Nintendo. And Sega.
Click to expand...

Sega and its arcade DNA is a perfect match for the Wii.

In fact, considering the many add ons of the DC, the Wii is like a DC2 in term of vision.
 
F

Fularu

Banned
Yoboman said:
I'd like to see what games they are, I find that a bit hard to believe.
Click to expand...

While I may not be the one you asked the question to, it's prety easy to have 15+ Wii games without having *any* shoverlware. I have 20 wii games and the system is only 18 months old

Mario Galaxy
Twilight Princess
Dewy's Adventures
Zack and Wiki
Fire emblem
No More Heroes
Dragon Quest Swords
House of the Dead Returns
Ghost Squad
Monkey Ball
PES 2008
Mario Kart
Super smash Brawl
Castle Shikigami III
Wii Sports
Zelda Bow whatever
Soul Calibur Legends (I'll grant you that one)
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Metroid Prime III
Super Paper Mario
Wii fit

etc..
 
S

sprocket

Banned
more horse power does not just mean better grphics and if you do not think Nintendo will make even more mind blowing games next with better hardware then you are crazy.
 
W

wazoo

Member
Your list has some turds going by ratings, but to support your argument there are 26 full fledged (no VC) games in IGN Editor Choices

and this list does not include even Lost Winds and Bloom Blox, some GAF favorites


Fularu said:
While I may not be the one you asked the question to, it's prety easy to have 15+ Wii games without having *any* shoverlware. I have 20 wii games and the system is only 18 months old

etc..
Click to expand...
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
Miyamoto made the most technically advanced games on console for a long time. Super Mario 64 for example blew away everything else. His company just realized they couldn't win the graphical arms race after GameCube and he fell in line like a good soldier. Which is nothing bad, of course, and his design chops are obviously well known. But its strange to see people acting like he was always this guy who made games with crude graphics but brilliant gameplay. No, oftentimes his games had both.
 
S

soldat7

Member
sprocket said:
more horse power does not just mean better grphics and if you do not think Nintendo will make even more mind blowing games next with better hardware then you are crazy.
Click to expand...

Nintendo doesn't care about 'mind-blowing' anymore. They don't really need to in fact. I think you'd have to be a bit crazy to think that Nintendo will ever put out anything with the horsepower to compete with Sony and Microsoft in the 'mind-blowing' department. They've been moving away from that business model for years and it's worked very well for them recently.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
The Experiment said:
In fact, nothing Nintendo did was innovative. They just knew how to sell it. It worked.
Click to expand...

Not just how to sell it, they knew how to put it together *well*.

Like the iPod, Wii just does what it claims to do and does it with the minimum amount of hassle. Wii Sports being the absolutely perfect demonstration of this.

People like things that just work, and that's how you capture the mindshare which the iPod and Wii have. Just shifting boxes doesn't necessarily gain you mindshare. Nintendo have given a lot of people exactly what they wanted, and were clever enough to identify that in the first place.
 
D

Drinky Crow

Banned
Vagabundo said:
Talking of niche fetishists....
Click to expand...

no doubt about it. i am all for driving people OUT of my hobby. if you don't wanna play complicated excel spreadsheets slathered in mediocre fantasy art, or play pixel-metered dodge-the-bullet-mandala shooters, gtfo losers

i cannot fathom why i -- or ANY "hardcore" gamer worth his elite, narrow, and consummately twee preferences -- would invite the blue ocean into our basement
 
W

wazoo

Member
diffusionx said:
Miyamoto made the most technically advanced games on console for a long time. Super Mario 64 for example blew away everything else. His company just realized they couldn't win the graphical arms race after GameCube and he fell in line like a good soldier. Which is nothing bad, of course, and his design chops are obviously well known. But its strange to see people acting like he was always this guy who made games with crude graphics but brilliant gameplay. No, oftentimes his games had both.
Click to expand...

of course, SM64 was the first game - if I'm not wrong - that broke the 100 people teamp barrier to finish it. In fact, the N64 was the ps3 of the 90's, built round SGI tech words and graphical excellence. Then it flopped.
 
D

Drinky Crow

Banned
Fularu said:
While I may not be the one you asked the question to, it's prety easy to have 15+ Wii games without having *any* shoverlware. I have 20 wii games and the system is only 18 months old

Mario Galaxy awesome
Twilight Princess good; better on gamecube
Dewy's Adventures atrocious
Zack and Wiki needs work
Fire emblem eh; the closest nintendo's ever gotten to shovelware since yoshi's story
No More Heroes eh
Dragon Quest Swords awful, i didn't know anyone bought this
House of the Dead Returns eh; better on dreamcast/xbox; also repackaged shovelware
Ghost Squad eh; sega shovelware
Monkey Ball awful, monkey darts excluded
PES 2008 can be found elsewhere
Mario Kart eh
Super smash Brawl awful
Castle Shikigami III awful, and i normally LIKE esoteric j-schmups
Wii Sports awful
Zelda Bow whatever awful; wait, this is closer to shovelware than even that half-assed take on fire emblem
Soul Calibur Legends awful
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles decent; shame 2p is required in many places
Metroid Prime III decent
Super Paper Mario awful
Wii fit get the fuck out of this hobby

etc..
Click to expand...

in the REAL world, there are precisely 5 good games on the wii: super mario galaxy, geometry wars galaxies, zelda twilight princess, endless ocean, and resident evil 4. 2 of those 5 can be played elsewhere in largely equivalent form, and another -- geo wars galaxies -- will probably be available elsewhere in superior form. this is indisputable fact.
 
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