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New 4K-Capable PS4 And Xbox One Consoles Coming This Year, Predicts Netflix
- Thread starter mocoworm
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autoduelist
Member
Forbes Contributors cause every political forum to go haywire near elections due to the amount of 'false' articles they post and people using them as 'sources' or thinking it means Forbes has a specific political position. They should definitely be banned here as well.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Most Blu-ray movies are on two layers period, and bitrate peaks well, well above 22Mbit/s whether there's a bunch of extras packed on the movie disc or not.
This isn't an opinion piece. Have you read the article or the OP?
It is reporting on Netflix Chief Product Officer predicting that this will happen. What has this got to do with the blog post author??
He goes on to say he contacted both MS and SONY and posts their replies. He also talks about in what situations new hardware would be necessary (newer decryption), and adds a little 'what if' at the end.
Why are some people trying to straw man this thread instead of discussing the Netfix prediction?
Once again, THIS ARTICLE IS NOT AN OPINION PIECE. The contributor on Forbes is reporting on an interview with Netflix staff.
article is about Netflix/Amazon streaming services and those WILL require new PS4 and Xbox One hardware to stream 4K.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
I think allot of early adopters will be really upset with the idea of having to go out and purchase a new model console or hardware especially when 4K video playback support has been announced as being supportable on these consoles.
We have the PS4 slim "leak", but the thing about this is that the consoles already can transmit and do 4k resolution.
My assumption is that Sony is having them code for another PS4 device, and they were also asked to make 4k available for the PS4. So they are getting the idea the two are combined and are for a whole new console design, when it fact is was just simply 2 separate things which was originally asked.
My assumption is that Sony is having them code for another PS4 device, and they were also asked to make 4k available for the PS4. So they are getting the idea the two are combined and are for a whole new console design, when it fact is was just simply 2 separate things which was originally asked.
Really, you're amazed? The requirement for High Definition Copy Protection will undoubtedly come from the content owners. When was the last time content owners didn't force hilariously pointless DRM schemes down everyone's throats? This should be expected as par for the course if organisations like the MPAA are involved.
thelastword
Banned
This is a good thing though, it will increase the push for better broadband everywhere. I think this may push minimum broadband speeds of 3-1Mbps to something much higher, everybody wins.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Did someone post the video where major nelson unboxes the xbox one showing the hdmi that supports 4k yet?...
This is just weird to me. Lol
This is just weird to me. Lol
So it's an article about someone elses opinion. The opinion of a person who is not an employee of either of the companies who created the hardware in question and thus has no actual first hand knowledge.
both consoles are capable for 4K output, the article this thread is about is referring to steaming services like Netflix requiring hardware that the consoles don't have.
so for example in the future* you could take a video file you shoot on your 4K video camera, load it on your PS4 and watch it on your 4K TV, but you won't be able to use Netflix to watch 4K movies/TV.
*while the consoles can theoretically output 4K, they currently are not set up in software to allow this. This could be fixed with a firmware update, but the Netflix issue would require new hardware
If netflix 4k streaming needs HDPC 2.2 and PS4 doesn't have it, wouldn't that make it unsupported content?
Lionel Richie
Member
So why 4K Netflix stream is not available for PS4 right now?
MISTER SIR they are 4K capable, just that the current consoles won't be compatible with Netflix and require a hardware revision.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The Netflix guy is clueless or there is a disconnect.
AMD's Kaveri supports HEVC with a Xtensa DPU (Software based with Xtensa accelerators). Both the PS4 and XB1 contain Xtensa DPUs. Firmware update is all that is required. Kaveri will support HEVC with Windows 10 at LOW POWER levels.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219
1)The difference between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 which supports 4K @ 60Hz is a faster clock.
2)For the PS4, HDCP will be software based using a Xtensa DPU in Southbridge because it will eventually be cracked and a new revision released.
3) A quad layer blu-ray drive + HEVC codec is needed for 4K blu-ray and modern blu-ray drives support quad layer.
Firmware update schedule.
AMD's Kaveri supports HEVC with a Xtensa DPU (Software based with Xtensa accelerators). Both the PS4 and XB1 contain Xtensa DPUs. Firmware update is all that is required. Kaveri will support HEVC with Windows 10 at LOW POWER levels.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219
1)The difference between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 which supports 4K @ 60Hz is a faster clock.
2)For the PS4, HDCP will be software based using a Xtensa DPU in Southbridge because it will eventually be cracked and a new revision released.
3) A quad layer blu-ray drive + HEVC codec is needed for 4K blu-ray and modern blu-ray drives support quad layer.
Firmware update schedule.
Feature-proved" means they have a list of coming features with the hardware designed/proved to be able to support those features.
4K Blu-Ray will use new Ultra HD Blu-Ray format. Current drives are not compatible.
So are you sure HDCP 2.2 can be done in software? Are you saying it will be cracked, and then Sony can implement the crack in software to act as if it's compliant?
Danlord
Member
I posted this not so long back. Sony has, in the past updated their TV firmware to support HDMI 2.0 which allows for 4K @ 60fps, and theoretically, Sony pushing 4K in all areas of the industry as they did with Blu-ray would surely have future-proofed the design of the PS4 to support it in the future. Requiring new hardware to support this 4K would splinter the market of current-owners of PS4's for the sake of supporting 4K is simply not a good idea.
Edit: I know it's not just about supporting HDMI 2.0 spec but also the HDCP spec but Jeff_Rigby post above covers that part, so it goes along with my thoughts that this year we'll have a big media feature firmware update for PS4, and not a hardware redesign for the sake of adding 4K support (but will eventually make smaller components and use 1GB GDDR5 chips instead of 512MB chips)
Edit: I know it's not just about supporting HDMI 2.0 spec but also the HDCP spec but Jeff_Rigby post above covers that part, so it goes along with my thoughts that this year we'll have a big media feature firmware update for PS4, and not a hardware redesign for the sake of adding 4K support (but will eventually make smaller components and use 1GB GDDR5 chips instead of 512MB chips)
Reallink
Member
It's not Netflix's call, it's the studios from whom they license the content. They no doubt have copy protection requirement clauses in their contracts.
DouglasteR
Member
The main problem here is HDCP 2.2
Get rid of it and every console can play fluid (cinematic level) 4k content.
Get rid of it and every console can play fluid (cinematic level) 4k content.
jeff_rigby
Banned
TEE level DRM requires all IO in the same SOC and everything encrypted from source to sink. The media stream comes into southbridge as a Playready encrypted stream and leaves Southbridge as a HDCP encrypted stream. The PS4 Southbridge fits this description of a Tee Level DRM. HDCP for the HDMI port would take place in Southbridge...this is the best DRM practice.
Every DRM is eventually cracked and a new revision is released. The only way you can do this is with firmware. Playready DRM makes provisions for changing the DRM routines also.
WheelHoss1
Member
Despite all the reasons this would be a total betrayal of Day 1 Adopters like me who now own 4K HDTVs, yes please.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Rigby saves the day, I can sleep now thank you.
jeff_rigby
Banned
RE: All newer blu-ray drives support 4 layer disks. There is a patent from Sony describing how they might implement 4K blu-ray and the issue is that older drives can support it and that creates DRM issues. Their fix is to invert the track info on 4 K disks so older drives can't support 4K but can still support standard blu-ray..
I believe they abandoned that because Ultra HD Blu-Ray will not use a 4 layer disc.
There will be a dual layer disk with 66GB and a triple layer with 100GB.
wkureservedp2
Member
This can't be referring to games. Devs currently can't even deliver 1080P/60 on these consoles lol.
MisterXDTV
Member
Point 1 and 2 OK but Blu-ray 4K cannot be supported: it is supposed to be using 33GB/Layer with Triple Layer Disc (100 GB Disc)
Standard Blu-ray drives use 25GB/Layer
John Bender
Banned
Big lol at mocoworm...
Who gives a crap what they say? WE KNOW WHAT SONY SAID (Shu).
"The PS4 supports 4K output, but only for photos and videos — not games"
Are you going to reply again with "....but a Forbes Contributor talked with a Netflix guy, and....." ?
RoninChaos
Member
How much data would streaming 1 hour of 4k video content use?
They can do most things in software. But in reality anyone that has a,4k tv like myself. Already has netflix uhd. No real need to play it via a console. As of today netflix has 3 movies, 4 videos and 3 series. Not much content. And the quality is pretty much like a blue ray. Some cool scenes but nothing worth buying a tv for. Uhd blue ray will be out this year then we will see what the tech can do.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Panasonic showed that with a firmware update most 25GB/layer blu-ray drives could support 33GB/layer. The rumors were using either a Quad layer disk or 3 33GB layers and all modern drives can support both. Edit: the standard will be which is easier to produce as reading has no cost difference.
4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in Late 2015
Posted September 5, 2014 11:34 AM by Webmaster
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/3D_Technology_and_4K_Resolution said:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130567-amazon-prime-instant-video-to-stream-in-4k-from-october said:
Android L and Windows 10 are being released this year and they support HEVC.
Considering the faster than expected uptake of 4K/UHD TVs I would not doubt that we'll see a firmware update to allow the machines to handle this. From last speaking to someone from within a major big-box retail electronics chain, uptake of 4K UHDTVs in large sizes (55"+) within this region/district is around 1/3 of all sold and climbing fast.
People may say "but content". Sure, valid point. But one must remember that a GOOD full-HD set is only a few hundred cheaper than a GOOD entry level 4K set, and people are buying them because of the whole "future proof" thing. Demo's like my Best Buy has a standard Blu-Ray player connected via a HDMI splitter going to a w950b and a x850b and there is an undeniable boost in detail via upconversion most people can (and do) notice.
Even my backwards area's cable/ISP is upgrading all their lines/nodes/hardware to support greater thoroughputs on all sides. They've been laying new lines and establishing a 15m down baseline speeds with up to 100m down packages (and a meh-5m up), and doing work on their "nodes". I asked them what they were doing since they were tearing up land just outside of my backyard and the worker said "we're putting new lines in because in a tech meeting they said they need to have a higher overhead for faster speeds and something about these newer sharper TVs" lol.
As far as I've read it seems outside of gaming (which TVs will upconvert at the cost of latency) that these consoles will probably get a firmware push to allow other forms of 4k content. No different HDMI port is needed (pins are the same, clocks are different) and HDCP can be addressed processor side.
People may say "but content". Sure, valid point. But one must remember that a GOOD full-HD set is only a few hundred cheaper than a GOOD entry level 4K set, and people are buying them because of the whole "future proof" thing. Demo's like my Best Buy has a standard Blu-Ray player connected via a HDMI splitter going to a w950b and a x850b and there is an undeniable boost in detail via upconversion most people can (and do) notice.
Even my backwards area's cable/ISP is upgrading all their lines/nodes/hardware to support greater thoroughputs on all sides. They've been laying new lines and establishing a 15m down baseline speeds with up to 100m down packages (and a meh-5m up), and doing work on their "nodes". I asked them what they were doing since they were tearing up land just outside of my backyard and the worker said "we're putting new lines in because in a tech meeting they said they need to have a higher overhead for faster speeds and something about these newer sharper TVs" lol.
As far as I've read it seems outside of gaming (which TVs will upconvert at the cost of latency) that these consoles will probably get a firmware push to allow other forms of 4k content. No different HDMI port is needed (pins are the same, clocks are different) and HDCP can be addressed processor side.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Console that can display 4K resolution =/= You will be playing games in 4K.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Nope. 4K TV's aren't crazy expensive anymore, and they actually have sold very well in 2014. The sales for them increased by 500% year over year, to 6.4 million units by Q3 in 2014 (which of course leaves out the holiday shopping season). More than likely if someone were to buy a new TV today, they would heavily look at 4K TV's. Heck, for the same price as I got my 55" 1080p Panasonic Plasma about 5 years ago, you can now get a 55" Curved 4K LED TV. You can even buy a 4K TV for around $500. Of course, it's not going to be a particularly good TV by many standards, but still, it can support a 4K picture.
It's estimated that 4K TV's will top more than 12% of all worldwide TV sales this year (source: https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreports/tr028.pdf ). They will likely continue to grow quickly as well as prices are dropping fast (at which point, why buy the inferior 1080p TV?).
It's similar to the 720p/1080i/1080p transition that happened during the 360/PS3 days. There was lots of debate if it was even worth it to have 1080p sets, with very similar arguments to the arguments people have against 4k. By the end of the gen, 1080p sets were considered "mainstream". By the end of this gen, it will likely be a similar story where 4k sets become "mainstream".
Read this forum thread on an old CNET article (no longer up?) saying that 1080p isn't worth it. It's funny to see the parallels 9 years later: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...48175-cnet-case-against-1080p-plasma-lcd.html
It's referring to smaller revisions to the console e.g., HDMI 2.0, a 4k decoder, etc., not drastic hardware allowing games to be at 4k, even indies.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Well Sony/AMD can always do like GPGPU HEVC hardware acceleration right?
mhayze
Member
Overall this wouldn't surprise me greatly. Ultra-HD Blu-ray will need all the hardware support it can get in order to survive, and since Sony is the company behind both UHD BD and the PS4, if it does indeed need new hardware, I can see them doing it. Even better would be them allowing it via firmware upgrade to the PS4, but who knows if this is possible or not. It does seem quite unlikely given the changes to the bit density/layer and the changes to HDCP /bandwidth in order to support all that's in the spec.
Saint Gregory
Member
I don't think the rumor is true (and looks to be discounted already) but I have doubts about any hardware revision being released this soon by either MS or Sony without some kind of incentive for consumers to upgrade beyond simply 4K support for media.
And honestly I've been wondering at what point we may begin to see the mobile marketplace business model applied consoles but hopefully not this generation.
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