• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
zXBJnvX.png

041 - Zubat
Poison/Flying

Zubat and its evolution, Golbat, have gained a reputation for being one of the most annoying and prolific Pokemon in the series. They've appeared in every Region except the original Unova, and tend to inhabit caves, where the player likely will stumble around for a bit thus running into them constantly. With good speed, they're not easy to run away from, and will often punish the player by confusing them and slowly whittling away their health. They're also the most common Pokemon used by the various Villainous Teams.

Zubat is inspired by microbats, which are bats that tend to have large ears, small eyes, and use echolocation. Particularly, Zubat is inspired by the vampire microbats which are known to suck the blood of animals, which is integrated into the game through the Leech Life move. Bats aren't actually poisonous, but they do tend to carry diseases, and it's easy to imagine a creature biting you also injecting poison simultaneously, so I feel the Poison-type makes sense and no one really questioned it. Despite that, Zubat and Golbat didn't learn any natural Poison-type moves till Generation III, and only then at very late levels.

Bats aren't actually blind, but it's a popular notion among the general populace, and Zubat plays with this by literally giving Zubat no eyes whatsoever---and it's not just an exaggeration in its design where we're supposed to think its eyes are just so small the art doesn't depict them, the PokeDex states that it literally has no eyes. Emerald's PokeDex, though, claims at one point Zubat had eyes yet lost them due to living deep within pitch-black caves. I think eyes are an important part of a Pokemon's design---I dislike Beartic because of its eyes to give an example---but while Zubat doesn't technically have eyes, the designers were clever as its lack of eyes in a way become its eyes, if that makes sense. Your brain sort of sees Zubat's ears as its eyes, and I always thought that was a pretty clever part of its design that plays with the viewer's expectation and how our brains fill in illogical elements of designs. I'm not an art major, but I hope you see where I'm going with that.

In Japan, there's an old-school tokusatsu (think Power Rangers) hero named Kaiketsu Zubat, but the name is a coincidence as Zubat looks nothing like him. Both him and the Pokemon derive their names from a Japanese onomatopoeia---zubatto---which you could consider similar to our expression of "bullseye!". This probably was chosen to represent the way in which Zubat uses its echolocation to hit and locate objects, and a play on the fact that zubatto already has bat within it. Of course, to Westerners, the "zu" seems pretty weird and most probably figured the name was perhaps "zoom" + "bat" or something.

In the show, Zubat served as one of Brock's Pokemon---and one of the weirder captures in the show as Brock captured it off-screen for no real reason. Throughout the show, Zubat's role was extremely minor, often merely serving as a scouting Pokemon like Pidgeotto did whenever the gang had to search for someone. Even though Zubat are said to grow weak when out in the sun, this never seemed to bother Brock's. It finally got an episode to itself in Johto where it was paired up with a female Zubat (and was shown to have an eye---uh---for the ladies like its master), and evolved. Funny to think that such an annoying Pokemon associated with the villain teams was a part of the main group for so long!

1fG2ki9.png

042 - Golbat
Poison/Flying

Golbat is the evolved form of Zubat, and grows much larger with a bigger emphasis on its fanged mouth. Zubat's PokeDex entries focus on its supersonic abilities, and while it can use Leech Life, its PokeDex never actually references the fact that it sucks blood. Golbat's, on the other hand, constantly mentions how it loves to drink the blood of both humans and Pokemon, and there's no reference to its echolocation abilities. Despite the PokeDex implying that Zubat lost its eyes as it evolved (in the more natural sense of the world), Golbat actually gains eyes. You think it might've made a bit more sense to have an evolution line perhaps go in the reverse of that, a bat Pokemon that lost its vision as its echolocation became more powerful, but Game Freak went the less expected route. Or perhaps I should say gaining eyes might be the more expected route?

Golbat presumably can see, and this change probably goes along with the fact that while Zubat stays mainly in caves, Golbat is implied to venture outside of its cave during the night in order to hunt. I imagine using the moon's light to hunt would be far more effective in wide-open areas than echolocation, which is probably better used in closed areas like caves, perhaps explaining why Golbat developed eyes. Golbat also has a really long tongue, but this is another design element that's faded as time has passed, as it's present in a lot of older appearances, but not so much in newer material. In fact, I don't think we've seen its tongue since the Stadium days---now it just seems to have a black void for a mouth.

Like Zubat, Golbat's name feels a bit off. The name was probably intended to be from "ghoul" and "bat", since in Japanese "gol" and "ghoul" are pronounced the same, and the dub probably should've called it "Gholbat" to make that more clear. Most people seem to pronounce it like the "gol" in "gold", and this has led to some people wondering if there was meant to be an implied relationship between Golbat and Golduck due to their similar names and color-scheme.

As mentioned before, Brock's Zubat evolved into Golbat in Johto, but Golbat despite being a bit more "emotive" due to having eyes now still didn't end up doing much of anything till its next evolution episode. Like in the games, Golbat are a popular choice for villainous characters who have appeared throughout the show's run. Perhaps because Brock owned one till up through Johto, I don't think any Team Rocket members were shown using them when they appeared. Team Magma was apparently the first ones to do so in the show, after Golbat had evolved and left Brock's team.

ZxzQdDL.png

169 - Crobat
Poison/Flying

We've seen Baby Pokemon already, but Generation II also introduced new evolutions of Generation I Pokemon as well. Like with the Baby Pokemon, many of these evolutions were given to Pokemon who were already pretty popular and didn't exactly need a power-boost, but Golbat could be seen as perhaps deserving an evolution, as it was an average Pokemon who had garnered a strong hate. Crobat, on the other hand, is quite a popular Pokemon---until Black and White it never appeared in the wild, thus it never grew to be an annoying symbol of how slow Pokemon's gameplay could be like Zubat and Golbat, and it was strong enough that it became a popular choice among competitive battlers.

In order to preserve the "canon", and explain why they didn't appear in Generation I, the new evolutions in Generation II had new evolution methods that were impossible in Generation II, although Crobat's stretches your belief. It's a happiness evolution, which while a new gameplay feature, from a story standpoint it makes no sense why a Pokemon wouldn't be able to be happy three years ago. Furthermore, Crobat is a pretty "dark" Pokemon associated with evil teams, quite different from all the other Pokemon who evolve via Happiness who are cute and friendly Pokemon implied to have a natural affinity for humans. Dudes like Cyrus, the emotionless machine from Team Galactic, apparently made his Golbat happy enough for it to evolve.

To be honest, I really don't like Crobat's design---it itself isn't bad, but I feel it looks pretty awkward compared to Golbat. It inverses Golbat's color scheme, and its body-shape makes it look smaller and weaker than Golbat, even though it's actually larger, to the point it almost feels like it should've been an alternate evolution to Zubat and a counterpart to Golbat rather than an evolution. Crobat's smaller looking appearance though probably fits in with the fact that its focus moves from sucking large amounts of blood to becoming a quick, agile hunter. There's no mention of it sucking blood (outside of keeping Leech Life), and it has a much smaller mouth that I don't think we've ever seen open, so I wonder if Crobat switches to simply eating small animals quickly as opposed to drinking copious amounts of blood.

Since I've brought up names for the rest of the line (who all have the same names in both English and Japanese, more or less), Crobat has three possible meanings it seems. From "acrobat", referencing its speed and flying skills, "cross", since it has a cross-like shape (as in X, not the religious kind), or "kuro", Japanese for black since it's dark colored. Some English folks might just think of "crow" since it sort of looks like a bird a bit more than its previous forms. Many Pokemon names, especially the Japanese ones due to how their language works, have this ambiguity and I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer unless Game Freak ever sets the record straight.

Brock's Golbat evolved into Crobat during some bizarre Johto filler I have no memory of involving Jessie being possessed by an ancient queen, and like its previous forms, it didn't do shit basically. You think this is bad, but in Johto there's a Brock Pokemon with an absolutely dreadful record even worse than Zubat's. Brock left Crobat with his brother, Forrest, who now serves as the Pewter City Gym Leader. Presumably, Crobat is merely used for practice, and Forrest does not actually use it when serving as the Gym Battle since it's not a Rock-type Pokemon.
 

Ryoku

Member
Gonna take the opportunity to post a snippet of my favorite Pokemon, Rayquaza.

When I found out about Rayquaza on the Spear Pillar in Sapphire (this was before I kept up with most gaming news, so I was on a blackout of Pokemon news) I knew I had to have it. Its stats were amazing, it was incredibly well-designed, and its cry was one of those cries that summarizes what the Pokemon was like. How it tied in with the story in Emerald only made me like it more.

Then it got a mega-evolution. When Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon were revealed, I knew it was only a short amount of time before Rayquaza's equivalent was going to be shown. I didn't expect it to be such a huge reveal, however. I expected it to be more like a "Oh, and Rayquaza gets one, too" kind of deal. Rayquaza then became a very important pokemon in terms of the history of the pokemon universe as well as mega evolution. And boy did the competitive community have a field day with Mega Rayquaza! Its updated design is all I ever expected from a Mega Rayquaza. Nothing but awesomeness. It stays true to the original design while giving it something more in terms of ferocity and majesty. Widely considered to be the most powerful pokemon to date, Mega Rayquaza is banned from just about all competitive play--even ubers!

Here's to you, Rayquaza!

latest


rayquaza-mega.jpg
 

StoneFox

Member
It was pretty annoying to be playing LeafGreen and not having my Golvat evolve until the post-game "because reasons". I mean, I understand that Game Freak only wanted the original 151 to be in the game until you get the national dex, but c'mon... he was trying to evolve for over 30 levels...
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
It was pretty annoying to be playing LeafGreen and not having my Golvat evolve until the post-game "because reasons". I mean, I understand that Game Freak only wanted the original 151 to be in the game until you get the national dex, but c'mon... he was trying to evolve for over 30 levels...

Yeah, that was a big misstep---I'm glad HG/SS and ORAS embraced all the new evolutions.
 

The Adder

Banned
Now THIS is interesting. While I have no problem with Trubbish, I'd like to know what makes Garbodor "brilliant". If you won't do a write up, would you mind to send me a pm? I'm honestly curious and love the hidden backgrounds behind Pokémon designs,

Sent.

Anyways, while I'm a big fan of Trubbish and Garbodor, they aren't in my top 5.

1. Snorlax

2. Heatran

3. Bouffalant

4. Farfetch'd

5. Venusaur.
 

Tillbo

Member
Really enjoying this thread so thanks for this.

My favourite 'modern' Pokemon has to be Zekrom despite the fact that he's not very popular. I just love his design...

latest
 

Toxi

Banned
No Pokemon has been more neglected than Archeops. Defeatist has to be the dumbest ability ever made.

Worse than Truant? And yeah... Archeops deserves much better. At least a not-terrible Hidden Ability or something.
I'll raise you a Slow Start. Poor Regigigas.
It was pretty annoying to be playing LeafGreen and not having my Golvat evolve until the post-game "because reasons". I mean, I understand that Game Freak only wanted the original 151 to be in the game until you get the national dex, but c'mon... he was trying to evolve for over 30 levels...
Yeah, it was a fucking bad decision that just confused new players.
Really enjoying this thread so thanks for this.

My favourite 'modern' Pokemon has to be Zekrom despite the fact that he's not very popular. I just love his design...

latest
Zekrom's cool. Interestingly, it's more popular than Reshiram in the USA, while Reshiram is more popular in Japan.

Unfortunately, Primal Groudon gives Zekrom a really rough time in ubers. At least it fared better than its sibling Reshiram.
 

ChrisD

Member
Zekrom would look a lot cooler without the funny hand covering things. They make his arms over-designed. Love the rest of him though. Reshiram and Zekrom are both excellent designs imo.
 

Macka

Member
Reshiram and Zekrom are a bit too...over-the-top 'godlike dragon lord' for me. I don't like Dialga or Palkia either.

In terms of the cover legends, I'd rank them:

1. Gen 2 (Lugia > Ho-Oh)
2. Gen 6 (Yveltal > Xerneas > Zygarde)
3. Gen 3 (Rayquaza > Groudon > Kyogre)
4. Gen 4 (Giratina > Dialga > Palkia)
5. Gen 5 (Zekrom > Reshiram > Kyurem)
 
No Pokemon has been more neglected than Archeops. Defeatist has to be the dumbest ability ever made.

Worse than Truant? And yeah... Archeops deserves much better. At least a not-terrible Hidden Ability or something.

If nothing else Archeops has the distinction of being a single player/main campaign game breaker, once it gets acrobatics it's almost like throwing an uber tier legend on your in game team.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
kBTFFFL.png

043 - Oddish
Grass/Poison

Oddish is exclusive to Pokemon Red, and serves as the counterpart to Bellsprout, although the two have grown a bit distant due to Oddish gaining an additional evolution in Generation II. Oddish is one of the first common Grass-type Pokemon the player will encounter, and displays another category of Grass Pokemon compared to Bulbasaur where rather than animals with plant-like appendages, they're simply living (well, "living" in a more complex way) plants. It seems to me in general the plant Grass-type Pokemon aren't as well received as the animal hybrids are, although Oddish itself is fairly popular.

Oddish seems to be roughly inspired by the idea of mandrakes, roots of the mandragora flower which have a long history of being used in pagan rituals due to their hallucinogenic properties, and the fact the roots are said to resemble human legs. Oddish is a very cute, innocent take on this idea as none of the occult elements of the mandrake are really represented. One element of the mandrake, popularized in Harry Potter, is that they let out a fatal cry when plucked out of the ground---Oddish are said to do the same, except their shriek isn't said to be fatal. Oddish derive energy from the moon, and as of Gen VI, they've begun to learn Fairy-type attacks perhaps suggesting a more mystical element to them than once thought.

In the localization, Oddish was given a scientific name in its Fire Red entry, Oddium wanderus (they incorrectly capitalize the specific name even in Y despite having a lower-case font), but this is actually a dub invention. In the original Japanese version, said entry stated Oddish, or rather Nazonokusa as it's known in Japan, is also known as "Archimendes", a popular real-life Japanese snack that basically means "noodles on the go". Personally that seems a more fitting name for Tangela if you ask me. By the way, the Fire Red entries are new to Western players, but they actually are the original entries from the Japanese Red and Green and thus the first ever descriptions of the Pokemon. The Western Red and Blue use the entries from Japanese Blue, which later served as the entries in Leaf Green.

In the original Japanese anime, Oddish shares the same voice actor as Pikachu, Ikue Ohtani, and in an interview with her during the "Rocket-Dan Secret Empire" radio show she implied that it was one of the originals she particularly liked. Minor trivia there. Oddish mainly got cameos in the show despite Ohtani voicing it, and didn't really get an episode till Johto, where it spent much of the episode dressing up like Hoppip and trying to fly.

tgYA1Wc.png

044 - Gloom
Grass/Poison

Gloom stinks! Literally. It's based off the real world rafflesia flower (this becomes more pronounced upon evolving though), known for its horrible stench said to smell like rotting flesh, and the drool from its mouth is actually a foul-smelling nectar that can cause memory loss. One PokeDex entry claims this is used to "attract prey", but it seems smelling so horrible would have the opposite effect. Well, perhaps it's meant to work on flies and other bugs attracted to the smell of rotting meat. Apparently, the honey is actually really good---but do you wanna eat a smelly liquid that drips out of a Pokemon's mouth?

Gloom always struck me as a Pokemon that has a lot of appeal despite, or perhaps because, of its rather goofy and off-putting appearance. Even the PokeDex claims that roughly 1 person out of 1,000 actually finds the scent to be amazing, and it's been shown in the show at least that some people have turned the honey into a popular line of perfume.

In the original Sugimori Art, and the earlier sprites up till Fire Red and Leaf Green, Gloom's lips were bright red, but are now purple. Part of me wonders if this was done in part because of the Jynx controversy, as bright red lips against Gloom's dark body could be seen as resembling blackface, but I'm not sure because Gloom's appearance in the show, which happened before the Jynx controversy, also featured the purple lips as did Pokemon Stadium. So it seems this was simply a case of different parts of the franchise having their own color scheme I imagine, and not a change done out of censorship. Although perhaps they decided to go with the purple lips later on for the main games because of the blackface resemblance.

Gloom was Erika's main Pokemon in the show, where it was shown to be capable of holding in its stench around people it considered to be its friends---this was later incorporated into the games via the PokeDex of Ruby. I've begun to realize how many of these elements of various Pokemon first seem to pop up in the show that I imagine Game Freak provided notes about Pokemon to the writers informing them about attributes the games didn't have the space or time to showcase. A later Kanto episode also featured a trainer wanting to evolve her Gloom, only to realize by the end of the episode that Gloom was perfect as-is.

EEpadhL.png

045 - Vileplume
Grass/Poison

Vileplume evolves from the Leaf Stone, another Elemental Stone appearing in Generation I that allows Grass-type Pokemon to evolve further. While Gloom was a budding rafflesia, Vileplume is the real-deal---its original name is even "Ruffresia". It's actually pronounced the same as rafflesia in Japanese, but that's how the name has been trademarked. Yeah, the Japanese names can get kind of tricky and ugly when writing them out with the roman alphabet due to how Japanese -> English works.

Rafflesia arnoldii is the world's largest single flower, and is quite interesting---it doesn't have any of the traditional elements of a flower like leaves, stems, or roots, and is actually a parasitic plant that lives off a vine. Both Venusaur and Vileplume's flowers are inspired by the rafflesia, which makes you wonder if there's some parasitic relationship rather than a symbiotic relationship like normally thought---our next Pokemon falls into the former category, in fact. Vileplume uses its flower like a makeshift umbrella, as its first form Oddish is said to dislike the sun. This is probably a reference to the Rafflesia not requiring a lot of sunlight as it lacks chlorophyll. Despite this, the Oddish line actually benefit from the sunlight and do, in fact, have an Ability named Chlorophyll. D'oh!

Vileplume is usually depicted as a happy-go-lucky Pokemon who scatters extremely toxic pollen without realizing it as it happily prances around, yet the original Red and Green (and Fire Red) entry says it "fiendishly" does so. In Sapphire, it's also said that it then catches and devours the immobilized prey. Vileplume's mouth is so tiny, I imagine that the top of its flower is its real mouth. I'm really starting to wonder if the flower is the one truly in control and takes over Oddish, rendering the body as simply a means to get around.

In the show, Vileplume was owned by James' fiancée Jessebelle, and true to its original PokeDex, was sadistic and fiendish like its owner. It later served as a plot device in an Orange Island episode to render Ash and Tracy incapacitated so Misty could get an episode to herself, and then a Johto filler where it was in a gang war against Gloom's other evolution...

n0jKTWu.png

182 - Bellossom
Grass

I don't "get" Bellossom. Out of all the Generation II evolutions, Bellossom feels rather pointless and tacked on as I felt the Oddish line was satisfyingly complete. Bellossom is unique in that it's the only single-type Pokemon to evolve from a dual-type, and is one of the few Pokemon who shrink in size from their pre-evolution. It loses some of Vileplume's Sp. Atk and places it in its defenses instead, and from my understanding this makes it a very poor Grass-type Pokemon who has almost nothing going for it. I don't think every Pokemon needs a reason to exist---having a bunch of creatures to flesh out the world is good enough for me---but with Cross-Generation evolutions who take up space that could be used for new Pokemon, I think more care should be put into them. The "why do we need this Pokemon?" should be a question Game Freak asks when creating them. That said, don't take this as meaning Bellossom should just disappear, as it does have fans.

Bellossom evolves from Gloom through the Sun Stone, a new Evolution Stone introduced in Generation II that's the counterpart to the Moon Stone and contains the power of the sun. Until Generation VI, it was basically a second Leaf Stone as only Grass-type Pokemon evolved with its help. Oddish and its normal line have an aversion to the sun (according to the Dex), but Bellossom specifically enjoys the sunlight and its design shows this, as it has a much brighter, green color scheme and its flowers have moved to only gently block the sun instead of its flower completely covering it like with Vileplume. Its trademark move could be seen as Sunny Day, which it learns naturally, but it doesn't naturally learn Solar Beam like Vileplume perhaps because it's a less offensively-based Pokemon. Bellossom also resembles a hula dancer, as well as having a bell shape to its body which is supported by the Dex mentioning its pedals are capable of making ringing noises.

Because of its different color scheme compared to Gloom, part of me thinks Bellossom would've worked better as a standalone Pokemon, and sometimes I wonder if it was originally intended to be one. However, early promotional art depicted Bellossom as having dark skin like its relatives, which was changed to green by the time Gold and Silver were released. Why? I've seen speculation along the same lines of what I said about Gloom, that possibly the dark skin and the fact it resembles a pacific island dancer might come off as a bit racist looking like a caricature, but I sort of doubt this as I don't think its original appearance is as questionable as Gloom. It was probably simply changed perhaps to fit in with it evolving from the Sun Stone and having a more "sunny disposition", as I explained above. The dark skin design was somewhat used for its original Shiny Sprite in Generation II, but future Generations made it look more pink than the dark blue shade of G/S.

Bellossom was part of the "second phase" Gold and Silver pre-release Pokemon, debuting in Pikachu's Rescue Adventure in a small role. I swear it also was part of the classic Southern Islands promo TCG-set, but it turns out I misremembered this and that set just had Vileplume. Odd. Its first focus episode was in Johto, showing off its dancing skills, but the most memorable appearance for me was in an episode all about a bunch of Vileplume and Bellossom involved in a territorial dispute. It was a pretty lame episode honestly, but for some reason I fondly remember it---probably because of a weird scene where Misty asks Meowth to translate what she's saying for the Pokemon, which makes no sense. First off, because the show has always worked with the assumption that Pokemon can understand human language fairly well including specific commands, and two because even if Pokemon can't understand humans, it doesn't make much sense that plant-based Pokemon would be able to understand "Meowth" language.
 

Ezalc

Member
I was waiting for Crobat. One of my favorite pokemon, every time I can get a zubat I make sure to use it so it evolves. This is why I love the entire line and say that the zubats of the past be forgiven for their sins. They just want love, love to become beautiful Crobats.
 

Razmos

Member
I can easily see Bellossom evolving from Oddish, the problem is that it evolves from Gloom instead.

I think it would have worked far better if the way Oddish evolved into Gloom had changed in Gen II, with it evolving into Gloom at night and into another middle form during the day, and then evolving into Vileplume with a moon stone and Bellossom with a sun stone.

I always think of Lilligant as the Unova replacement for Bellossom, and it is far, far superior.
250px-549Lilligant.png
 
I never really consider Bellossom part of the Oddish lineage, of course it actually is but I just can't shake how out of place it seems as you say.

Or it might just be because Vileplume is a gen 1 favourite of mine, Bellossom stepping on turf it shouldn't.

And yes to the above, Lilligant is a lot better.
 

Toxi

Banned
I've always disliked Bellossom, but in retrospect I'm probably just so harsh on the Pokemon because I love Vileplume and Bellossom just seemed like a downgrade with no real point to it. Bellossom actually has a pretty neat design idea with the hula motif, so I can understand why some people like it. I'd probably like it too if it was just its own Pokemon, because it just doesn't really fit with the Oddish line.

I always think of Lilligant as the Unova replacement for Bellossom, and it is far, far superior.
250px-549Lilligant.png
I prefer Lilligant too. Such a cutie, and the way all of its level up moves are dance-related is perfect.
 

jackal27

Banned
Bad. They don't perform well, most of the new pokemon are trash, and the games are so easy now you could probably play them without actually looking at the game.

Nice opinion there. I really liked X and Y as well as the new Pokemon. They're my favorite additions since gen 3. Aside from the framerate, I don't really have a complaint about the game. I admittedly haven't played the Hoenn remakes though.
 

Razmos

Member
I prefer Lilligant too. Such a cutie, and the way all of its level up moves are dance-related is perfect.
Indeed, I really love its design (I like Bellossom's motif as well, but it and Maractus share the same distinction of having a solid motif/idea but being terrible pokemon)

Lilligant can be an absolute powerhouse too, I used her throughout all of Gen V and VI:
Quiver Dance (Sp. Att + Sp. Def + Speed up 1 stage) + Petal Dance + Own Tempo for ridiculous damage with no draw backs, and quiver dance makes her more tanky too, which you can utilize with Giga Drain. Mega Lilligant would be unstoppable.

I never liked grass pokemon until Gen V and VI, Lilligant, Leavanny and Gourgeist are just so damn good.
 

Bladenic

Member
Lilligant is awesome as fuck, she's OP in the games. Competitively she's not used often which sucks. It's funny that Whimsicott is far worse for in game purposes, but way better competitively.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
You know, Paras, we really are the Parasect

crXHFQp.png

046 - Paras
Bug/Grass

Paras is a Bug/Grass Pokemon, one of the most unfortunate Type combinations in the entire game. In Generation I, where Poison was effective against Bug-type Pokemon, Paras had three quadruple weaknesses, and thanks to one of its abilities Dry Skin, a Fire-type attack will cause 5x the damage to Paras! The Grass-type usually consists of "Plant Pokemon", but in the Pokemon World, mushroom are also considered plants, even though they're technically fungi. Sure, it's scientifically inaccurate, but little kids and even some adults likely see mushrooms as plants, so I can understand why Game Freak didn't split hairs here.

Paras' trademark element are the small mushrooms on its back, specifically known as "tochukaso". Unlike most Grass-type Pokemon, Paras does not have a symbiotic relationship with its plant, but rather it is a parasite as it grows by using the nutrients Paras gathers for its own benefit. The tochukaso is one of many real-world parasitic fungi, popularized by the Last of Us and commonly called cordyceps (although as of 2007 tochukaso is now part of the similar ophiocordyceps genus), which are known to grow within various bugs. Furthermore, they are capable of controlling a bug's mind, one such species driving its host to suicide, in order to help advance their species. It's a very frightening organism, and thus it's a surprisingly dark Pokemon, although Paras' parasite doesn't seem to be quite as vicious as the real-life example is. In China, tochukaso are known to have healing properties and are an important part of traditional Chinese medicine. One of Parasect's PokeDex entries even specifically name-drops China.

The tochukaso in real-life are known to mainly infect the larva of ghost moths, but Paras is a cicada nymph. Cicada nymphs tend to spend most of their time burrowed underground, like Paras does, and while there's a bunch of interesting facts about cicada, I won't talk about them here. Why? Well, Paras' role as a cicada Pokemon takes a backseat to its role as a host to the tochukaso, and there's a cicada Pokemon in Generation III who I feel this discussion is best saved for. A cicada was likely chosen as the bug to serve the host role for two reasons---first cicada in real life tend to be infected by many other types of cordyceps species (perhaps because of their long life cycle?), and second because like the tochukaso, cicadas play a part in traditional Chinese medicine.

Paras, perhaps because its backstory isn't exactly family-friendly, glosses over the parasitic stuff in its anime appearances and the mushrooms aren't treated any differently than any other plant growing off a Pokemon. In fact, one episode has Paras removing its mushrooms, which is said to be a bad thing. Its sole focus episode was the Problem With Paras, where its trainer wanted it to evolve in order to use its mushroom for medicinal purposes. It seems pretty cruel to want Paras to evolve considering what it becomes---but as I said, this is glossed over in the show. Speaking of the Problem With Paras, I realize that's one of the few Kanto Episodes I can't remember off the top of my head, as I forgot Paras even had a focus episode. All I remember from that is Paras' mock-battles against Ash's Pokemon.

YKVzeE8.png

Parasect
Bug/Grass

At this point, the tochukaso has completely taken over Parasect. Rather than evolving into the next step of the cicada's life cycle, it is simply a larger Paras while the mushroom has now dwarfed it. Its blank, zombie-like eyes reveal a shocking truth---the parasite is now in complete control, and Parasect is forced to do its bidding for the rest of its life. Even creepier, Crystal's PokeDex states that the tochukaso spreads it spores onto the eggs of Parasect, ensuring that the cycle continues indefinitely. The Dex Entry states this occurs "when nothing's left to extract from the bug", which leads to the question what exactly happens to Parasect next. I imagine though if Parasect ever receives a Mega, Game Freak might take pity on the poor creature and allow the Pokemon to briefly regain control of its mind, but on the other hand maybe they'll have even more tochukaso growing out of Parasect's body.

At one point in time, despite its unfortunate Typing, Parasect was considered a good support Pokemon thanks to having the 100% accurate Spore to put Pokemon to sleep (and I've seen it suggested as one of the best counters to Mewtwo in the original games due to knowing Leech Life, one of the few Bug-type attacks), but it seems to have fallen from grace recently due to advancements in the game such as Grass-type Pokemon resisting Spore. As illustrated in Pokemon Special by Crys, Parasect can still serve an important role as great Pokemon for completing the PokeDex, as its high attack, plethora of status moves, and access to False Swipe can help wear down stubborn Pokemon. Paras and it also carry Small and Big Mushrooms in later games, which can provide a source of income and be used by the Move Re-Learner in FRLG, and rarely Paras may even have the Balm Mushroom which sells for 25,000!

Parasect's sole focus episode was the Problem With Paras, in which Paras evolved into it in the end completely losing all control over its body and becoming a lifeless husk as its trainer gleefully profited off the parasitic fungus responsible for its pain and suffering. Well, that's my interpretation of the events at least!
 

Spyware

Member
I love the Paras line, it's so dark and horrifying! I had a great one in a nuzlocke pretty recently but it died to a crit ;(
 
I've always liked Parasects design, how it looks like a hermit crab when in reality its shell is a parasitic mushroom.

Also how the eyes are pure white because it is dead.
 

Lotto

Member
parasect is dope, he's like a crab shroom with beady eyes. definitely up there as one of my favorite pokemon designs. simple and distinctive. bulbasaur is still my all time favorite though.

really cool thread btw.
 

Toxi

Banned
Parasect became the unexpected star of Twitch Plays Pokemon Red Anniversary because the modded version of Red being used rebalanced the Pokemon. Parasect got an enormous stat buff to the point it had the same base stat total as Mewtwo. And thus the humble Parasect carried the entire team for most of the game and gained the moniker Leech King.
 

Dryk

Member
It's a pretty great mega too. 100% accurate Hurricane is nothing to sneeze at. Main issue is that Pidgeot's special movepool kinda sucks, with only Heat Wave as decent coverage. It really could use Focus Blast.
Having Hurricane AND Focus Blast on something with No Guard and that speed would be a thing of beauty
 

Dryk

Member
In order to preserve the "canon", and explain why they didn't appear in Generation I, the new evolutions in Generation II had new evolution methods that were impossible in Generation II, although Crobat's stretches your belief. It's a happiness evolution, which while a new gameplay feature, from a story standpoint it makes no sense why a Pokemon wouldn't be able to be happy three years ago.
This is one of the design philosophies I wish GF would do away with entirely. It's dumb.
 
wow Birdie i knew you talk about the Anime alot in the community thread but man your really gonna talk all the pokemon, i should stick around
 

Tiamant

Member
At one point in time, despite its unfortunate Typing, Parasect was considered a good support Pokemon thanks to having the 100% accurate Spore to put Pokemon to sleep (and I've seen it suggested as one of the best counters to Mewtwo in the original games due to knowing Leech Life, one of the few Bug-type attacks!

You bet! I remember beating Mewtwo in Stadium using the rental Parasect, that's when I fell in love with it. Shame about the horrid typing.
 

StoneFox

Member
Parasect became the unexpected star of Twitch Plays Pokemon Red Anniversary because the modded version of Red being used rebalanced the Pokemon. Parasect got an enormous stat buff to the point it had the same base stat total as Mewtwo. And thus the humble Parasect carried the entire team for most of the game and gained the moniker Leech King.
Leech King was da bomb.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Tonight I'll be tackling the famous Butterfree-Venomoth switch. Did a bit of research on this and while I can never be positive about Game Freak's intentions, I feel I've reached a satisfying conclusion.
 

Firemind

Member
Having Hurricane AND Focus Blast on something with No Guard and that speed would be a thing of beauty
Now I'm perpetually sad Pidgeot doesn't have access to Focus Blast. Everyone should have Focus Blast as a giant middle finger to T-Tar.
 

Spladam

Member
Guys, I've been trying to find a thread to ask this on, went through a search for Gameboy, and Emulator, but I think it might be best asked here:

I've never played a Pokemon Game, is Emerald a good place to start? I did some searching online and it seems to have good reviews, decent graphics, and looks like it's a all-in-one of Ruby and Sapphire. What do you experts think? I have emulators for everything, so let me know what you suggest.
 

Zing

Banned
I had never really played a Pokemon game (dabbled with FireRed for a couple hours) until XY. I am now maybe halfway or more through Alpha Sapphire. I would strongly recommend this Ruby or Sapphire remake as a first game. Despite XY seemingly being designed to be newbie friendly and very similar in plot and scope as the original Red/Blue, I feel ORAS is the better first game. XY had far too many Pokemon and tries to do too much all at once for a new player. ORAS is tighter and has the "dexnav". I will be disappointed if any future games do not have this.
 

Toxi

Banned
Guys, I've been trying to find a thread to ask this on, went through a search for Gameboy, and Emulator, but I think it might be best asked here:

I've never played a Pokemon Game, is Emerald a good place to start? I did some searching online and it seems to have good reviews, decent graphics, and looks like it's a all-in-one of Ruby and Sapphire. What do you experts think? I have emulators for everything, so let me know what you suggest.
Emerald is great, I give it a hearty recommendation.

Other great games to start out with are Heartgold/Soulsilver or Platinum.
 

jnWake

Member
Emerald is great, I give it a hearty recommendation.

Other great games to start out with are Heartgold/Soulsilver or Platinum.

Platinum is a great recommendation. I love Emerald but it lacks the phys/special split so I think Platinum works better as an introduction. Besides, Cyrus > all Pokemon villains.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
sa7ZGI1.png

048 - Venonat
Bug/Poison

Out of all the Bug-type Pokemon in Generation I, Venonat doesn't really get a lot of love. Most players likely by the point they encountered Venonat had already caught Butterfree or Beedrill, and had by that time realized that the early Bug Pokemon just weren't that good. A similar Bug Pokemon like Venonat likely didn't inspire confidence, so many players probably simply skipped it over as more unique Pokemon had begun to appear. Personally, I've always liked Venonat's design, even though I've never actually used the little guy. In recent games, though, him and his evolution have gotten a bit more usability thanks to new Abilities and Quiver Dance.

What exactly is Venonat supposed to be? He doesn't appear to be a gnat despite his dub name implying that, and while he evolves into a moth, he doesn't resemble a caterpillar. My guess is that Venonat is simply a "Bug Pokemon"---he's meant to be a simplified, abstract representation of insects in general, not based on any specific species. In particular he's basically a giant insect head, the main focus of his design being his enormous compound-eyes which he can use as a radar, and can even fire off powerful beams. This served as the inspiration for its trademark Ability in Generation III, Compound Eyes.

While he doesn't resemble a moth, one moth-like element Venonat does have is that they're attracted to bright lights at night. I actually looked up the reason moths are attracted to lights, and it seems there's still disagreement on the cause of it. One popular theory is that moths fly at night at a certain angle relative to the moon, and artificial light messes up their senses causing them to fly around aimlessly as they're unable to figure out where they're going. Another theory states that female moth pheromones have a slight luminescent quality, and thus male moths are tricked into thinking lights are actually possible mates. Likewise, we don't exactly know why Venonat is attracted to lights either.

Venonat was used by both Koga and Aya (an anime-only character who would be Janine's aunt, had the latter appeared in the show) as their signature Pokemon, even though Koga never used the line in the games. However, it played a major role in Orange Islands...as Tracey's Pokemon. Venonat's radar came in handy quite a bit, and presumably it helped Tracey locate Pokemon that he could sketch, but otherwise it never did much. I mean, if you're a Tracey Pokemon, you're worse off than a Brock Pokemon. Although Tracey has appeared in cameo appearances throughout the show, Venonat hasn't been seen since Johto. Also, according to Misty in one episode, Venonat isn't a Bug Pokemon. Huh?

fjlqalL.png

049 - Venomoth
Bug/Poison

There's a long-standing rumor among the Pokemon Fanbase that at some point during development, Butterfree and Venomoth were switched. As the theory goes, Venonat was intended to be the pre-evolution of Butterfree, while Venomoth was intended to be the evolution of Metapod. This is supported by the resemblance between Venonat and Butterfree, the former basically looking like a wingless version of the latter, and possibly the Japanese names, where Metapod is Trancell and Venomoth is Morphon, i.e. transform -> morph. I don't believe Game Freak has ever commented on this, but a lot of fans seems to believe it and it's become one of the more popular rumors.

However, personally I don't really believe it. I do agree that Venonat does look like it could be the pre-evolution of Butterfree, but I don't quite see it working the other way where Metapod evolved into Venomoth. As for why Venonat and Butterfree look alike, from my understanding the development of Pokemon Red and Green was quite rough and somewhat amateurish, there's a lot of little things in Red and Green that demonstrate this (like the issue with Ghost-type ending up weak to Psychic), and the Pokemon design team was made up of only about five people. There are numerous Pokemon in Generation I who look simillar to other Pokemon, and I imagine when designing the Pokemon sometimes one designer would end up being influenced by another's design (like what happened with Nabbit and Ravio at EAD). I think that's simply what happened with Butterfree and Venonat---Butterfree was probably developed first, and another designer was working on Venonat. As I mentioned in Venonat's write-up, I feel the purpose of Venonat is to be an "abstract insect design", specifically of an insect's head. Venonat's designer likely saw Butterfree, though it was a good, simplistic representation of an insect, and ended up basically taking its head, enlarging it, and turning it into Venonat.

Now, that's basically my speculation on the Venonat - Butterfree connection, but now let's take a more scientific look at the relationship between Metapod and Venomoth. First off, there's a lot of tricky science stuff behind the differences between butterflies and moths (such as their antennae---butterflies have the q-tip shaped ones usually), but one difference is that caterpillars who turns into butterflies usually go through a chrysalis stage---like Metapod, where the body is still revealed---while moth caterpillars tend to wrap themselves up in silk cocoons. Thus, Caterpie, who is based off the larvae of the swallowtail butterfly, and Metapod, a chrysalis, appear to have always been intended to become a butterfly, not a moth.

Venomoth possibly appears to be a Arctiidae moth due to its use of poisonous scales. Arctiidae moths in their larvae form digest certain chemicals from poisonous plants, and are then able to use the poison for their own throughout their life by storing the poison. Most moths aren't necessarily poisonous, but many people believe that the dust their wings give off (which is actually them shedding their scales) can be dangerous, and one wives-tales around Asia states that their dust can possibly cause blindness. Many folks do suffer allergic reactions to the scales, so it's easy to see why Game Freak specifically translated this to them being poisonous. Some also believe its original name, Morphon, points to it being inspired by the Morpho Butterfly, but personally I don't see much resemblance and think the name is simply referencing how it metamorphoses into a moth from its pre-evolution, Venonat (or Metapod, if you believe the rumor). Venonat could possibly be a bipedal version of the typically very hairy Arctiidae caterpillar, but either way, I think that Venonat feels like a natural pre-evolution to Venomoth and not a weird switch. But as I said, we may never know the truth till Game Freak reveals it, if they ever do.

There are two oddities I'd like to address about Venomoth. First, a quick little design quirk of it where its original Sugimori Art gave it yellow spots on the back of its wings, probably meant to represent the poisonous dust that it spreads. Second---was Venomoth at one point perhaps meant to be part-Psychic? Now, it works perfectly fine as a Bug/Poison Pokemon, but you'll notice it learns quite a lot of Psychic-type moves. This isn't weird on its own, as so does Butterfree, but Sabrina also used on in Red and Green, the only Gym Leader to use a Pokemon that wasn't a member of her Gym's Type. Someone like Agatha or Lance using a non-Ghost/non-Dragon Pokemon makes sense, there was only one line to choose from, but Sabrina has plenty of options---12 Psychic-type Pokemon. This has never been explained, and this only happens in Generation I (excluding Yellow) and the remakes, Venomoth is otherwise absent from her team.

In the show, the writers seemed to fix this oddity by giving Koga Venomoth as one of his main Pokemon, a more suitable choice. The only other major Venomoth appearance was being part of the Katie Battle during the Hoenn League. What's the Katie Battle, you ask? It's one of the best battles in the show, one of the few times the writers suddenly decided to try and craft a battle to be a bit more like the ones in the game, and the result ended up being quite good. Venomoth played a vital support role, using Disable to rid Ash's Pokemon of important moves such as Torkoal's Iron Defense.
 
fjlqalL.png

049 - Venomoth
Bug/Poison

First off, there's a lot of tricky science stuff behind the differences between butterflies and moths (such as their antennae---butterflies have the q-tip shaped ones usually), but one difference is that caterpillars who turns into moths usually go through a chrysalis stage---like Metapod, where the body is still revealed---while moth caterpillars tend to wrap themselves up in silk cocoons.

You said "moth" for both cocoon and chrysalis, but I get what you mean.

Thanks for putting in the research on that one.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Oh, thanks for noticing that! It's kind of late here but I really wanted to get this one out because I felt it was one people were waiting for.
 

jnWake

Member
Maybe Butterfree was the original evo for Venonat but they later gave it to Caterpie and designed Venomoth instead. I agree with Metapod to Venomoth being a bit of a stretch but the Venonat to Butterfree relation is way too much haha.
 
Reshiram and Zekrom are a bit too...over-the-top 'godlike dragon lord' for me. I don't like Dialga or Palkia either.

In terms of the cover legends, I'd rank them:

1. Gen 2 (Lugia > Ho-Oh)
2. Gen 6 (Yveltal > Xerneas > Zygarde)
3. Gen 3 (Rayquaza > Groudon > Kyogre)
4. Gen 4 (Giratina > Dialga > Palkia)
5. Gen 5 (Zekrom > Reshiram > Kyurem)

A lot of gen 4 legendaries don't look great but it had the best lore if any gen by far.
 
Top Bottom