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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
Luvdisc is like the best Hoenn Pokemon. Thanks for the heart scales.
Feebas -> Milotic is thematically the same idea as Magikarp -> Gyarados except it has more of a beast to beauty angle than wimp to badass. Getting Milotic was infinitely more annoying too. I actually like the diversity in the games when it comes to how you get Pokemon, but Milotic is one of the few Pokemon that is crazy annoying to acquire.
Gyarados is still not a scrub and sees a lot of competitive use. It's been around for almost twenty years and is still a viable competitive pick. Not to mention Mega Gyarados. I AIN'T SEEN NO MEGA MILOTIC YET.
The Shadow Knight
Member
Competitive is a cool ability in doubles, but I don't think either mon has very high usage in VGC? I have never seen them on any of the top level teams IIRC.
Gyarados is undeniably miles ahead in singles though.
Milotic isn't on the level of CHALK, but it is certainly used a lot, especially to try and check/destroy Landorus thanks to Competitive.
Aaronrules380
Member
What are the C and A? I'm guessing C is mega charizard y, and A is either aegislash or amoongus. H is obviously heatran, L is landorus Therian, and k is mega khangaskhan
Looked it up, c is cresselia and a is amoongus
Nothing against that, heck I used Gyarados myself for a while.
I was just arguing that Smogon I not 100% of the competitive scene in Pokémon
I dunno I caught Magikarp in Vermilion City and getting him to level 20 wasn't that hard, so there's no reason to pay 500 yens for a Magikarp when you can get one for free later on.
In Fire Red and Leaf Green there's more of a reason to buy the Magikarp since you could soft reset to get a shiny.
Agreed, the day I listen to Smogon is the day I start using mega in my playthrough.
Yeah prior to gen 5 getting a Feebas and Milotic was difficult but now it's super easy to catch and evolve Feebas.
Gyarados was OU before its mega. Intimidate+Dragon Dance+Nice defensive typing=Ridiculous
Also, Gyarados is still seeing VGC play. Milotic just sees more because it's a meta counter against Landorus Therian. Both are nowhere near the usage of Cressalia, Landorus T, Amoongus, Heatran, Kangaskhan, and Thundorus I.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
#131 - Lapras
Water/Ice
We've had a couple of Water/Ice Pokemon so far, but Lapras is probably the most popular. To be honest, I don't really understand why it's Ice exactly except because it learns Ice-type moves, but I guess Ice fans have to take what they can get...oh, wait, Ice has no fans. Lapras played an important role in Red and Blue, basically given to the player during the story, and with its powerful stats, as well as being designed to be the Pokemon you'll probably teach Surf to (even representing Surf in Gen II), it's no surprise a lot of players added it to their team and they were rewarded with a powerful Pokemon who could stand up to Lance of the Elite Four with ease. XY went for the Kanto nostalgia and gave you a Lapras as well, right at the point you need Surf to continue your adventure, and it has a unique Surf model, but it lacked the same impact and felt a bit shallow, as in Red and Blue you were rewarded with one after you made your way through a difficult dungeon battling against Team Rocket while XY just handed it to you without any subtlety, treating it no different from all the other items NPCs just hand out from the goodness of their hearts. Well, that's XY for you! Anyway, Lapras was always a strong Pokemon with its high HP, but has fallen down a bit over the years due to not having any notable specialties setting it apart, and its Ice-type being seen as ultimate a hindrance adding common weaknesses to Fighting and Rock-type attacks. Lapras also hasn't gotten anything new, either, such as a Baby, even though it seems like the type of Pokemon who is deserving of one, although in Generation IV there was a certain Pokemon everyone thought was a Baby Lapras at first. Still though, you can't hate on Lapras, and perhaps always being just Lapras is good enough.
In Rhydon's entry, I mentioned that according to Sugimori he, Clefairy, and Lapras were the first three Pokemon created, and I think it's neat because they illustrate the variety of roles that Pokemon can take. Rhydon represents the main idea of Pokemon, a powerful creature under your command that you fight alongside with, while Clefairy is more like a cute pet which you keep around the house. And finally Lapras represents the Pokemon who assist humans by acting like a boat and ferrying them across the water, playing a vital role in making the life of humans easier. I've always thought the Pokemon who are shown to have a relationship like that with human society are perhaps the neatest, and I always like when the show has an episode showing how Pokemon perform a wide variety of jobs, even though it does beg a moral question if making Pokemon work for you, presumably with no pay is the same as using work animals since they're implied to be much more intelligent and emotional in comparison. Lapras in particular is implied to be smarter than the average Pokemon, capable of understanding human speech (although as I've mentioned almost every Pokemon seems capable of that in most media), and even said to have telepathic abilities. There's a bit of sadness behind Lapras, though, because despite its kind nature and intelligence, it's an endangered Pokemon because it is so accustomed to humans it's easily tricked by them and hunted down. It's never said why people hunt Lapras, or if they're being simply put in captivity instead of killed, but I imagine perhaps their shell or horn fetches a price on the black market. The Lapras you receive from Silph Co. in Generation I is probably one such Lapras, taken from its family and given to you basically to serve as your slave---but perhaps it can sense the inherent goodness of the player, and ultimately wants to help him accomplish his goal. In recent games, Lapras has become slightly more plentiful, but still quite rare, often appearing in one location and rarely at that.
There's actually early prototype drawings of Lapras from the Capsule Monster days, and it never really changed much---it always had the horn, so it doesn't seem like it was thrown on like with a lot of Generation I Pokemon last minute, but it did lack the curly ears which I think made it look a bit ugly. Adding the ears was a nice choice, as it gives a sense of balance to the design and doesn't make the shell stick out as much. Lapras' general design and rarity brings to mind the aquatic reptile plesiosaurus, which everyone is familiar with due to inspiring the legend of the Loch Ness Monster (and in fact Lapras was originally gonna be called Ness by NOA), while it also has elements of other aquatic creatures such as a large shell you might see on a sea turtle, and elements of a seal perhaps. Some also think it's long neck is meant to resemble the mast of viking ships which often resembled sea monsters, and I can see that honestly. I've seen a lot of fan Pokemon based even more so on viking ships, I know Smogon made such a creature for CAP, and I'm surprised that they never created a counterpart to Lapras in Generation III or V to take over the role of a primary surfing Pokemon. I don't mind Game Freak creating similar Pokemon over the years, so I wouldn't mind. Fans of Lapras can continue liking it, and new fans might like the newer one more, but it's a win/win as far as I'm concerned.
Like quite a few classic Pokemon who kept their Japanese name more or less, there's always been a sense of ambiguity over what the name of Lapras actually means. Popular theories are that it derives from "la place", French for "seat" referencing the purpose of its shell, while others think the name is derived from the stone lapis lazuli, which like Lapras is a beautiful blue and known for its rarity and value. The one I like though is the belief it's a bit more intelligent name, derived from the Pierre-Simon Laplace, a famous French mathematician who is basically considered on the same level of Newton. But, this is one I never really researched into now, because I use to see the claim he specialized in studying the sea and tides, but that was only a really small part of what he focused on, so I'm kind of doubtful now and I think the "la place" or "lapis", or a combination of the two, are probably more likely. Still, we don't really know for certain why Game Freak named certain Pokemon like they did, so it's up to your own interpretation.
Lapras' first appearance in the show, which people probably forgot about, was actually in the eventual banned episode "Holiday Hi-Jynx" where it was capable of using telepathy to directly communicate with humans in the same way Legendaries do, and worked for Santa Claus. Yeah, fuck that shit. But most people remember its far more memorable role in the Orange Islands where it served as the main means of transportation for Ash and his friends, but didn't do too much else, being involved in a race to win an Orange League badge, and later taking part in the battle against Drake but tying with his Gengar. Lapras left after the Orange Islands to join up with the herd it had been separated from, but popped up again in Johto now more mature and the leader of the herd. Unlike everyone else in the entire show, Lapras had noticeably aged. Although Ash did catch it, it seems it's not considered one of his anymore, as in the Japanese opening Spurt it was noticeably absent from the beginning line-up of his Pokemon which included Butterfree and Pidgeot, instead merely popping up in a separate scene later on shown surfing alongside Ash and Co. So, yeah, probably won't see it ever again.
Aaronrules380
Member
So out of curiosity since we are close, we going to do related legends separately or together?(ie legendary birds together, Mewtwo and mew. Etc.)
balladofwindfishes
Member
Almost time for the single most useful gimmick Pokemon in the entire series!
Aaronrules380
Member
So, who does everyone think is the most worthless pokemon in the game? I've got to say Unown. It doesn't evolve, has shit stats, and can only learn hidden power
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I'm an Ice fan. Frozen is a pretty good status effect. It's like Paralyze, but you're more guaranteed that your opponent won't be doing shit for a while.
I wonder if Ice pokemon ever became immune to the Ice Status like Poison for Poison.
I never used Lapras myself despite getting it every time I played Blue or Yellow. I used a Dewgong instead. We know it's part of the canon team for Red. His Lapras was one of the harder ones to take down in Silver and it had the benefit of being immune to hail. I think some of its moves are buffed from it too???
I wonder if Ice pokemon ever became immune to the Ice Status like Poison for Poison.
I never used Lapras myself despite getting it every time I played Blue or Yellow. I used a Dewgong instead. We know it's part of the canon team for Red. His Lapras was one of the harder ones to take down in Silver and it had the benefit of being immune to hail. I think some of its moves are buffed from it too???
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yep, Unown is the worst Pokemon in the entire series.
It's kind of funny Unown is also the Pokemon that takes the most work for them to implement, considering nobody will ever use it to battle and it ends up just being a random lore related Pokemon that isn't even really relevant now that we won't be visiting Johto for awhile again, if ever.
Aaronrules380
Member
I mean, at least luvdisc is easy heart scales. Unown is just there to spell shit out. I like Smogon's bit on Unown
All ice types are fully immune to freezing.
The problem with freeze is that there's no guarantee way to inflict it on a opponent. There's no Thunder Wave or Spore equivalent which makes the status condition unreliable and not worth the trouble going for it.
Aaronrules380
Member
Freezing is only really something you factor in when you're desperate as fuck and need a miracle
Red actually only uses Lapras in the remakes. In the original GSC he uses an Espeon instead. Personally I think the Espeon fits better.
Clutch freezes are honestly the most hyped moment in Pokemon battles just as long as you're not at the end of them.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
He had an Espeon? I don't remember that and it seems random considering Espeons weren't in his game and in the anime and pokemon Yellow Blue was the Evee trainer.
Aww. Well at least I won't be disappointed, but I think Game Freak did that because maybe a move like that would be op. They could however have an attack with a high FRZ %.
I also hope Psychic pokemon will one day be immune to confuse too. My Mr. Magic being immune to both Sleep and Confuse would be marvelous.
day of the week specific pokemon appearing was so fucking cool
thank you based iwata
Unown looks pretty cool, though
and there's a different one for every letter and !?
and it appears in a cool place with cool music
but for actual use in a battle? yeah it's pretty up there.
Whalermouse
Neo Member
Randomly Nameless
Member
I'm curious how broken an Ice-type exclusive status move with a decent accuracy (>= 60%) and guarantee of causing Freeze would be. Ice types are extremely uncommonly used so it could give them some utility. It isn't much worse than Spore.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Good question. Here's the plan.
Well, for Eevee coming soon, I'll do the Gen 1 Eeveelutions together with him in one post, a post for the Gen 2 Eeveelutions, and then a post for the Gen IV + Gen VI Eeveelutions.
Legendary Birds will be grouped together. I'll be doing that with all the minor trios---Birds, Beasts, Regis, Lake Trio, Genies, and Musketeers. Regigigas will be with the Regis and Keldeo with Musketeers.
I'll group Ho-Oh and Lugia together, Groudon and Kyogre, Latios and Latias, Dialga and Palkia, Manaphy and Phione, Cresselia and Darkrai, Reshiram and Zekrom, and Xerneas and Yveltal, but all the other Legendaries will get their own entries. There's a ton of stuff to talk about with Mewtwo and Mew individually, so I'll keep them separate.
And they'll be a few Pokemon I'll group together, such as the ones introduced in Gen III to advertise Double Battles, the Monkey Trio in Gen V, Sawk and Throh, etc.
GiantBreadbug
Member
What's the highest freeze rate on a move? Just out of curiosity.
I'm assuming it doesn't exceed 10% or so.
I'm assuming it doesn't exceed 10% or so.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
He totally did, his team was Venusaur, Blastoise, Charizard, Pikachu, Espeon and Snorlax
balladofwindfishes
Member
Why bother using an ice type Pokemon when they have a billion weaknesses to the most powerful and common offensive types (both special and physical) in the game and every other Pokemon can learn piles of Ice moves? And only resist Ice, which other, much better, types do as well (along with also resisting other types).
Whalermouse
Neo Member
Mostly correct. Only exception is Secret Power when used in hail, which is 30%.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Because Aurorus is fucking amazing
Insanity, because unlike Sleep, you can't stack up chances to unthaw from a Freeze. Sleep lasts anywhere from 1-3 turns and every time you "fail" to wake up, you have a higher chance of waking up the next turn. This persists even if you switch out. You only have a flat 20% chance of unfreezing every turn.
Ice-types are limited, but they're definitely usable. You can make use out of Frosslass, Glalie, Abomasnow, Jynx, etc with the right set up, and Weavile/Kyurem/Mamoswine are straight up good.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Ah thanks
I looked it up as well and can't find one that is greater than 10% besides Hail SP.
Gyarados also had HP Flying to work with before the split, which had a respectable 105 base power. He still wrecked faces. Gyarados is probably my favourite competitive Pokemon. So many times when opposing pokemon got stone cold walled by him. Love it.
>Pidgeotto wants to learn Wing Attack.
>Forgets Gust
>leaves Tackle alone
:facepalm
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Whoah this sounds awesome, I know what I'm watching
Whalermouse
Neo Member
I still don't understand why Game Freak still feels the need to make bulky slow ice-types when it's one of the worst defensive types in the game.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I did not know this about Sleep. I'm really surprised at the 1-3 turns. I've seen Pokemon wake up immediately from Hypnosis and I think I remember being asleep for about 5 turns before. That shit pissed me the fuck off. In Soul Silver I found pokemon waking up quickly from sleep, but I tend to stay sleep for a while.
I know this feel, I waited to get my Challenge mode key before starting my first Black 2 run and I got rekt by Cheren, Work Up annihilated me lol. I was so unprepared for that fight, I had Riolu but in B2W2 Gamefreak changed when he learnt Force Palm from level 11 to level 15, so I was fucked from the get go. I actually had to go and grind levels against wild Pokemon in order to stand a chance, something I haven't had to do in a long time.
I loved the addition of challenge mode though, the differences between it and normal difficulty are slight at first, Gym leaders just got an extra Pokemon on their roster, but as you go further into the game you'll start noticing a significant level increase, some changes to Pokemon movesets to make them more competitive and, once you reach the Elite 4, an increase in the number of Pokemon holding items.
Once I beat the game and went to the uber creepy Black Tower to take on the challenge there the bullshit came though. Legendaries, legendaries everywhere. Also, fuck you Benga! How the fuck did you get a Latios.
I love ice type pokemon, regardless of the problems the type has.
Also, I think Lapras had been by number 1 most wanted Mega since they've been announced. For whatever reason a straight up evolution never quite felt right to me, but it's needed something for a while and I feel like a Mega would be nice...
Also, I think Lapras had been by number 1 most wanted Mega since they've been announced. For whatever reason a straight up evolution never quite felt right to me, but it's needed something for a while and I feel like a Mega would be nice...
balladofwindfishes
Member
In Gen III there wouldn't have been any reason not to replace Gust with Wing Attack. Wing Attack is just a straight upgrade to Gust, as they're both physical moves (again, in Gen III)
Grumpig, only because I can't stand it
But na, Unown is a safe option...or male Combee.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
1st gen fucked me up to, were you playing Blaze Black 2? That's reason why I thought I was getting fucked. I decided to get a Tyrogue instead so I could get a Hitmonchan, but due to minerals not being available until late in the game, it evolved into a Hitmonlee to my surprise. I thought it was going to be a Hitmontop. Hitmonlee's my favorite, but I wanted something different this time.
The only differences I found between the three modes were pokemon levels. They still used the same moves and had the same pokemon, but they either had 1 level less or 2 levels more.
Err but, Wing Attack is a straight upgrade to Gust. And tackle offers some minor type diversity.
Bidoof is garbage, I don't even care what his stats are.
Waluigilicious
Member
He has quick attack
He still has Quick Attack.
balladofwindfishes
Member
There's no difference between having Tackle/Quick Attack at the same time rather than Gust/Wing Attack
Waluigilicious
Member
Oh you're playing Blaze Black 2? Are you doing regular mode or challenge mode? I did challenge mode my first time and it was hellishly difficult under my usual self-imposed conditions (no healing items in battle, no grinding).
Skyla in specific was probably one of the most difficult things I've ever done in a video game let alone any pokemon game. So many resets.
Well then it still doesn't make any difference between tackle and gust, I guess gust has like 5 more power but once you have wing attack and quick attack it's not like you're ever gonna use gust and tackle again unless you manage to run out of PP.