Escape Goat
Member
I'm not sure what closing this thread is going to accomplish? If they do why not just keep posting in some new thread? Stop posting when a mod comes in and says "Okay, you have no right for peaceful assembly. Break it up." ?
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We're Here! We're Queer! The All-Purpose Gay Discussion Thread!
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This is my opinion, so don't cut my throat.
I personally agree with the abolishment of this thread (and Negro-age and whatever other similar mega-thread). Gay issues, discussions and whatever else should not be concentrated in one single space. If this forum is actually tolerant and accepting, these topics should be everywhere; they should permeate the forum just as naturally as heterosexual topics do. Saying that this thread was essential because people felt understood and accepted is so backwards to me; gay members should feel like that everywhere on Gaf, not just in one little thread.
I want to have those random tangents where we talk about boys in a thread that has nothing to do with it, just like the straight members do; I want to post sexy GIFs of men everywhere (where appropriate), just like the straight members do. I want to come out in a thread where it could be celebrated by everyone on Gaf, not just with other gay members. Yes, we could technically still do all of this, but the existence of this thread defeated the purpose of doing so.
And my guess is that this is one of the reasons EvilLore is establishing that new rule. Because it just looks ugly to come into this forum, read a TOS that states all bigotry is banned and everyone is accepted, to then step into the |OT| and see the equivalent of colored drinking fountains for every minority group.
Maybe I'm the only one thinking like this, I don't know.
I personally agree with the abolishment of this thread (and Negro-age and whatever other similar mega-thread). Gay issues, discussions and whatever else should not be concentrated in one single space. If this forum is actually tolerant and accepting, these topics should be everywhere; they should permeate the forum just as naturally as heterosexual topics do. Saying that this thread was essential because people felt understood and accepted is so backwards to me; gay members should feel like that everywhere on Gaf, not just in one little thread.
I want to have those random tangents where we talk about boys in a thread that has nothing to do with it, just like the straight members do; I want to post sexy GIFs of men everywhere (where appropriate), just like the straight members do. I want to come out in a thread where it could be celebrated by everyone on Gaf, not just with other gay members. Yes, we could technically still do all of this, but the existence of this thread defeated the purpose of doing so.
And my guess is that this is one of the reasons EvilLore is establishing that new rule. Because it just looks ugly to come into this forum, read a TOS that states all bigotry is banned and everyone is accepted, to then step into the |OT| and see the equivalent of colored drinking fountains for every minority group.
Maybe I'm the only one thinking like this, I don't know.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I honestly think that closing this thread will do the opposite -- this was the one place a lot of members struggling w/ their sexuality had a place to vent. It's NEVER going to be like "oh hey I want to make a gay-age thread about coming out" in OT because let's face it it's a lot more daunting to make a single thread about that in a sea of heterosexual topics.
This place isn't meant to segregate, it's meant congregate. We came together as a community because of this thread, and before it you'd be hard pressed to see half as many coming out posts/threads on the forum. Without this place there's going to be a decline on people's free ability to talk about their sexuality... because a lot of people struggling with those issues need to talk to people who are solely gay, not everyone else.
This place isn't meant to segregate, it's meant congregate. We came together as a community because of this thread, and before it you'd be hard pressed to see half as many coming out posts/threads on the forum. Without this place there's going to be a decline on people's free ability to talk about their sexuality... because a lot of people struggling with those issues need to talk to people who are solely gay, not everyone else.
Koodo said:
It's not that simple. There are simply many small issues that some people often not comfortable enough to make new threads. And really, some of these issues are miniscule (boy problem) and probably not many people are going to reply to them, especially given how bigoted some people are. This thread provides an outlet for some people who are still in the closet to feel a belonging. To feel that they have an outlet to talk to other people. That would no longer be possible if this thread is closed down.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
it's not about only feeling comfortable in one thread, it's about seeing a poster who doesn't walk around with a "I AM A HOMOSEXUAL" tag post in this thread and think 'oh, he's gay? that's really cool.'
I was this close to doing that. =pZephyrFate said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
I don't even remember coming out threads before this one, honestly.Rez said:
I'm sort of ambivalent about the thread closing.
On the one hand, I don't really participate all that much, but on the other hand I do enjoy reading what other people are saying and reading about other people's lives in a way that I don't think I'd get in normal "news" topics about gay-related things.
On the one hand, I don't really participate all that much, but on the other hand I do enjoy reading what other people are saying and reading about other people's lives in a way that I don't think I'd get in normal "news" topics about gay-related things.
Anyway, I can't say I'm too fond of the huge number of Girl-Age threads in OT all the time. That need could easily be filled by a periodically replaced megathread. Zeph is right, the supportive nature of this thread is that almost all of it's frequent posters are of a like mind. Far less intimidating asking for help from a group of people you know will be supportive, in opposition to the wider forum which is very much dominated by heteronormative attitudes.
Escape Goat
Member
Before we get closed down...anyone planning on playing Rift?
Aren't you all proving my point then? That gay members didn't come out in their own threads because it seemed daunting? That gay members wouldn't like to post gay stuff because of possible bigotry? That gay members felt like they were walking around with a tag that said "Hey, I'm gay"?
Let me ask you: how the fuck do you think this is OK? Post your issues wherever you want, create threads for whatever you want. So what if some asshole comes and says shit about us? We would be doing a service to this forum by drawing attention to these bigots and getting them banned faster than they normally would. And as for how it seems daunting to go around and creating gay topics, you don't think that was in part because of this thread? If this thread didn't exist and the slowly increasing gay population on Gaf kept posting their gay topics wherever they pleased (as they should), then it wouldn't seem so daunting. In my opinion, everyone in this forum would get used to it and we wouldn't need to be going around feeling like we have an invincible tag that says "we are gay." On the contrary, we would start being treated like any other member.
The only way you would expect this forum to become any less heteronormative and more diverse is by trying, not by being complacent and posting all gay topics in a singular thread.
Let me ask you: how the fuck do you think this is OK? Post your issues wherever you want, create threads for whatever you want. So what if some asshole comes and says shit about us? We would be doing a service to this forum by drawing attention to these bigots and getting them banned faster than they normally would. And as for how it seems daunting to go around and creating gay topics, you don't think that was in part because of this thread? If this thread didn't exist and the slowly increasing gay population on Gaf kept posting their gay topics wherever they pleased (as they should), then it wouldn't seem so daunting. In my opinion, everyone in this forum would get used to it and we wouldn't need to be going around feeling like we have an invincible tag that says "we are gay." On the contrary, we would start being treated like any other member.
The only way you would expect this forum to become any less heteronormative and more diverse is by trying, not by being complacent and posting all gay topics in a singular thread.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I disagree. This forum has become increasingly MORE supportive and less heteronormative THANKS to this thread because it was a magnet that showed straight-GAF that we are here, we are queer, and we are normal just like you. It showed people who would have otherwise thought we were abominations that there is good in our lives and good in our actions.
This has spread outwards -- gaybashers are unanimously destroyed by not only GayGAF but other posters, too. Before this huge thread, we had a fuckton of complaints and bitching about there being too many gay threads. And that's just going to happen again once this goes.
It's going to be daunting to be gay no matter what we do, but this place made it easier for people to come to terms with what it meant to be gay, and thus improved their lives elsewhere, in other threads, in real life.
This has spread outwards -- gaybashers are unanimously destroyed by not only GayGAF but other posters, too. Before this huge thread, we had a fuckton of complaints and bitching about there being too many gay threads. And that's just going to happen again once this goes.
It's going to be daunting to be gay no matter what we do, but this place made it easier for people to come to terms with what it meant to be gay, and thus improved their lives elsewhere, in other threads, in real life.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know, man.
ZephyrFate
Banned
... hey Evilore...
I think I've said what I need to. This thread has done a lot for me, as it has for many others. I will be very sad to see it go, as it provided a haven for the sorts of discussion segments of the wider community might not be receptive to. However, some of that purpose could be served by a "coming-out thread", and occasional guy-age threads, as you suggested.
Evilore, if you're going to close this thread, then can we ask for your explicit permission to establish the following two threads:
"Coming out support thread |OT|"
"Gay and bisexual relationship thread |OT|"
Each thread will only contain discussion pertaining those issues. In other words, no pictures of hot men, no discussion of games. It's unfortunate, but those are the two most important things about the current GayGAF.
Of course I'd prefer it if this thread stays as it is. Or if it's closed down due to size but we can start a new thread. But I won't be averse to the solution I propose earlier.
"Coming out support thread |OT|"
"Gay and bisexual relationship thread |OT|"
Each thread will only contain discussion pertaining those issues. In other words, no pictures of hot men, no discussion of games. It's unfortunate, but those are the two most important things about the current GayGAF.
Of course I'd prefer it if this thread stays as it is. Or if it's closed down due to size but we can start a new thread. But I won't be averse to the solution I propose earlier.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I personally found it more daunting to post any gay-related post anywhere on this forum because of this thread, because I kept thinking someone would be an ass and say "post that in GayGAF" (and I am positively sure to have witnessed this happen at least once). I kept posting my gay comments regardless, because I wasn't going to let an asshole stop me from doing so.
As for the typical "we have too many gay threads" comment? I would welcome those with open arms. Let those assholes bitch; bitch back at them, show them proof that they are being hypocrites (given the amount of girl-age threads, this is quite easy); heck, PM a mod, I remember reading in the TOS that this should be encouraged. Beat it into the heads of these bigots that they shouldn't bitch at the presence of gay topics; they should be celebrated just as much as any straight topic.
I agree that I also benefitted greatly from this thread, but imagine how much more we would all benefit if the entire forum was as accepting as this thread?
edit: oh, EviLore is here. Like someone else said, I've already voiced my opinion. The majority should be the one to decide.
As for the typical "we have too many gay threads" comment? I would welcome those with open arms. Let those assholes bitch; bitch back at them, show them proof that they are being hypocrites (given the amount of girl-age threads, this is quite easy); heck, PM a mod, I remember reading in the TOS that this should be encouraged. Beat it into the heads of these bigots that they shouldn't bitch at the presence of gay topics; they should be celebrated just as much as any straight topic.
I agree that I also benefitted greatly from this thread, but imagine how much more we would all benefit if the entire forum was as accepting as this thread?
edit: oh, EviLore is here. Like someone else said, I've already voiced my opinion. The majority should be the one to decide.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Well, you're gonna get what you want.Koodo said:
ZephyrFate said:
It's a nice argument, but I honestly haven't noticed this social change. There were a lot of complaints about all the gay threads (though most of those threads were dedicated to news and not so much about chit-chat / getting to know you conversations, at least as I recall), yes, but I feel like GAF has always been very, very supportive of its gay members, and I felt very comfortable coming out when I did.
And I feel like the suggestion of smaller threads that relate to coming out / relationships would serve the same purpose as a thread like this, without all the excess stuff.
I sort of feel like I'm cross posting this from the other thread, but what is 'other stuff'? Do we have a list of approved subjects for conversation? What if someone wants to talk about something in general terms without a specific news article to point to, and it becomes a large thread? Does it get closed?Mumei said:
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
we're saying the same thing, essentially. what I'm saying is that having a thread like this that essentially identifies the gay posters for the people who may be a tad confused or insecure makes it easier for them to immediately find people they can relate to.Koodo said:
it isn't about only having one thread and feeling scared to post outside of it. it's about having a hub from which people can start from and slowly work their way out of.
my attitude in life has, in recent times, been that my sexuality is about as interesting as my hair-colour. The best way to enable people to understand homosexuality, or any other social divider, is to generally be a cool person around them, and then later realise "oh, wow, he's gay? that's cool."
on a smaller scale, I would like that to be possible from someone reading a post of mine on the gaming side, and then coming here and being like "oh, Rez is gay? Poster X is gay? wow, all these guys I see in other threads just post like they would in any other. they seem like rational, well-rounded people, maybe I don't have to conform to a stereotype in order to not feel repressed."
that might be a tad romantic, but it's an extreme example of something I'm having trouble articulating.
it isn't about repression, it's the opposite. it's about being a functioning member of a community, but also having a slightly more closed off section of the community for those not brave enough to post in a theoretical 'COMING OUT' thread, or what have you.
I feel like this thread can, in theory if not always in execution, serve a purpose unlike that of other community threads.
The thread did make it clear to the rest of the forum that NeoGAF had a large and active gay community. I think it is definitely possible that this visibility brought about positive changes in attitudes. Also, a coming-out thread, if purely for that, would probably fall off the first few pages pretty quickly. Many of those who are in need of such a thread wouldn't even know it existed.
ZephyrFate
Banned
We have no choice, so let's fight to keep those threads alive.Yoshiya said:
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
maybe I'm reading the wrong threads, but as a whole GAF has been the opposite of unaccommodating to gay people, across all threads.
This thread certainly hasn't stopped that. That was one of the things I was most surprised by when I read the TOS.
There's a line in there that said "we have a large gay community. If you don't like it, post somewhere else." I hadn't come out at the time, I hadn't even signed up to GAF yet, but it made me feel, for that moment, a real sense of admiration toward this forum. This was long before the existence of this thread. It isn't like GAF was some sort of anti-gay cesspool prior to this thread.
This thread certainly hasn't stopped that. That was one of the things I was most surprised by when I read the TOS.
There's a line in there that said "we have a large gay community. If you don't like it, post somewhere else." I hadn't come out at the time, I hadn't even signed up to GAF yet, but it made me feel, for that moment, a real sense of admiration toward this forum. This was long before the existence of this thread. It isn't like GAF was some sort of anti-gay cesspool prior to this thread.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I'm off to the bars. See you in other threads, GayGAF.
Dead Man said:
Well, I think that a lot of discussion that isn't really pertinent to being gay takes place in this topic now. For instance, I've made quite a few posts that were about a recent television show I was watching or a video game I was replaying. I could have easily made a topic about how I was replaying Final Fantasy IX or starting to play Dissidia or rewatching The Wire (or participated in one of the dozen existing topics about The Wire), but instead I just made a post in here.
If the gay thread serves a social purpose for coming out / support / relationship advice (and I think it does do that, as well), then I think that's great. But that's what I mean by "other stuff"; basically anything that doesn't relate to being gay.
Does that make sense?
Yeah it sounds silly but I felt more comfortable with the forum as a whole knowing there are so many other gaygaf posters. I tend to be a shy person so it is hard to open up to a new community of people unless I feel I have something in common to talk about.Rez said:
Even just gaming in general I feel a little shunned since I play games with others find too odd or cute or 'japanese'. I think my most active participation in a thread was the Animal Crossing City Folk thread in Gaming, cuz I felt they would get my passion for the game and I could actually discuss something I liked.
Learning of gaygaf, I felt 'hey everyone has something in common with me, maybe I don't have to stay in one thread' and I felt more comfortable posting into the forum as a whole. I did not really even start posting a lot in this thread till a few weeks back. But I have seen how helpful people have been just lurking now and again, and what a welcoming vibe the posters give. As a gay person, and as a shy person, it was very important to me.
Rez said:
Oh, absolutely. That this thread could be as successful and long lasting as it was really shows how much better GAF is when it comes to such subjects, which are usually targets of vilification and bigotry. That said, a large part of the problem for any person trying to work out their sexuality is their own fears and preconceptions, so a visible, accessible and active source of gay related discussion is very important.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
Mumei said:
I'm not sure smaller threads would work. I think there are very clear benefits in having this thread.
Firstly, many posters have noted they lurked long before they had the courage to post. There is massive value in chit chat as it shows gay people are normal and no different from other people. In effect it breaks down barriers. This has been incredibly effective in the real world and combined with the anonymity of the Internet is even more effective on neogaf.
Secondly, also as I said in the skin thread, the creation of a specific coming out thread would not be as effective as it would be a beacon to neogaf that someone is questioning their sexuality. It would turn that person into a circus sideshow.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
w-wait a minute, I didn't think we were done here?Replicant said:
Before the more fervent advocates of this thread come at my throat, I'd like to repeat that I was merely stating what I feel (and I gave you a detailed explanation of why I felt that way). My goal was to incite discussion; too see if what I thought was reasonable at all. And discussion is what I got, and I thank everyone that politely replied to my posts. I'm merely saying this just in case any poster sees what I wrote, feels offended, and fires back. I don't want, and I didn't intend to offend you.
I still think this thread was not conducive to a more accepting environment; but regardless of what I feel, I hope the new rule and new threads leads to a more accepting Gaf. I need to note that I also felt Gaf was accepting prior to the establishment of this thread (I lurked for years before registering); I do feel, however, that there is always room for improvement and I will always be vocal about this.
I love you all. <3
I still think this thread was not conducive to a more accepting environment; but regardless of what I feel, I hope the new rule and new threads leads to a more accepting Gaf. I need to note that I also felt Gaf was accepting prior to the establishment of this thread (I lurked for years before registering); I do feel, however, that there is always room for improvement and I will always be vocal about this.
I love you all. <3
I can absolutely appreciate what this thread means to some of you. Things are being changed a bit, the threads will be a little more specific, but that doesn't mean the death of gay-gaf by any means. Be open and comfortable on GAF at large (which has been my intention to facilitate a good environment for since I took over), while still having the support mechanisms via the new gay-gaf related threads being created.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Appreciate the kind words.EviLore said:
Will this thread be archived? There's a bit of history in here, for some of us.
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