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LTTP: Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward

F

freeofgreed

Member
Holy shit, HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT.

Wow, this game is INSANE!!!

I played 999 about a year ago and fucking loved it. I started playing this one almost immediately after but stopped after I got my first ending and just never finished. I guess because I was a bit overwhelmed. But I finally got around to finishing it and...just wow. This was an amazing experience.

Since this is pretty much a visual novel there's not much I can really talk about outside of the story so let me just get my dislikes out of the way. I didn't really have any major complains with the game, so these are more annoyances I had with it as opposed to any genuine fault.

-This game is Looooong. My save file by the time I got the true ending was over 40 hours. I don't rememebr how long it took me to beat 999 but I definitly don't remember it taking anywhere close to this length to finish.

-It can get very repetitive. I know that's kind of the point but, even still. You'll be watching a lot of the same cutscenes over and over. The game does give you a fast forward button but that doesn't work on scenes you haven't seen yet. And due to the nature of the game there's alot of scenes that are 95% the same as others but because of slight variations they're considered new ones, and thus cannot be skipped. Also did we really need screen transitions every time a character leaves a room? It really grated me how I had to watch several doors open and the map pop up with each screen transition.

-You can't skip puzzles. I don't really have an issue with the puzzles in this game outside of finding them a bit obtuse at times. But the more I played through the game the more I wished I could skip them entirely. It got to the point where I was dreading whenever a puzzle room came up. Like I know why they exist. They're there to provide a break in between the Novel sections, but here's the thing. I didn't want a break... The novel sections of this game were so infinitely more interesting than the puzzle sections that it makes the puzzle sections just come off as a huge road block towards getting to the next story bits. I know there's an easy mode but I don't think that skips the puzzle sections outright. Not to mention using it means you won't get the true ending.

Now that that's out of the way. The story was incredible. It's been a while that I've been able to experience a story that constantly keeps you edge. This game drops bomb after bomb on you. It was incredible just how many plot twists this game throws at you. And they just get more and more crazy. The Phi ending and the True endings especially blew me away.

As to how it compares to 999 idk. I think 999 as a whole is much tighter experience. Like I said before this game is very lengthy and it can run into some pacing issues. But Story wise I think I enjoyed this one slightly more (But then again I haven't played 999 in about a year, so it could be because this one is more fresh in my mind).

I'm going to pick up ZTD soon, but I'm a bit worried since I've heard very mixed things about it. But I still want to experience it regardless.

Now on to some questions I have...

Whose body did Kyle's conscious go back to in the true ending? If Zero's conscious goes back to inhabit Sigma's conscious on Dec 25th. Then where does Kyle's go back to?

How are Clover and Alice going to return to their timelines? If there was a way to send them back, then why didn't they just use this method isn't of wasting all this effort with the nonary game?

How did Akane know to kidnap Sigma, Alice and Clover? If Sigma was the mastermind behind the whole thing, and the furthest he's ever jumped back was Dec 25th how did Akane know to kidnap all three of them prior to that? Can Akane jump through time as well? If she can then why does she bother with Sigma? Why couldn't she stop the leak of radical 6 on her own?

Why is Luna shocked at Sigma's robot arms/suspect he's a robot? She should know that he's her creator so why is so surprised when she finds out about his mechanical limbs?

Why is Akane so damn strong? She's been able to lift Sigma, Clover, Dio, and Luna. Damn what does she eat 0.o

What happened to Santa and why wasn't he with Akane?

Does ZTD answer any of these questions? How connected is it to 999 and VLR? Because something that surprised me while playing was how many links there were between this game and 999. I knew there'd be some due to Clover and Alice being here but I didn't think there's be that many...

EDIT: More questions

What is the point of going back in time and making a new timeline? The game establishes that there exists infinite timelines for every possibility. SO with that in mind even if Sigma didn't create the Nonary games there should already exist timelines where Radical-6 never broke out by default. So it seems kinda pointless for him to do all of this just to make a timeline that wont even erase the old ones.

Breaking off of the last question, why would Dio's organization send him to participate in the Nonary games for? SIgma changing the past wont change the future so why would they care?

How did Sigma get infected by radical 6 again in Luna's route if he was already infected? In the security room, you see Sigma's processing speed slow down. But I don't understand why. His processing speed should've already been slow down, since at the end Akane explains that their slower mental state was the default.

Also instead of trying to stop the spread of Radical-6, why didn't Zero just recreate the cure when he went back in time? I mean he developed it so he should already have the formula
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Easily in my top 5 favorite games ever.

Don't play ZTD for a while or it'll ruin your high (and I say this as someone who liked it more than most).

I tried answering your questions, but I'm sure someone else with a fresh memory will be able to do it better than I could.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
Brazil said:
Easily in my top 5 favorite games ever.

Don't play ZTD for a while or it'll ruin your high (and I say this as someone who liked it more than most).

I tried answering your questions, but I'm sure someone else with a fresh memory will be able to do it better than I could.
Click to expand...

Yikes! that bad?

Does ZTD
go over the events that led to the outbreak of radical-6 or will we never find this out?
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
freeofgreed said:
Yikes! that bad?

Does ZTD
go over the events that led to the outbreak of radical-6 or will we never find this out?
Click to expand...

It's a game that's more worried about out-twisting its predecessors than about actually telling a cool story. It has its moments, though.

And yes. That's the whole point of the game, actually.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
freeofgreed said:
Yikes! that bad?

Does ZTD
go over the events that led to the outbreak of radical-6 or will we never find this out?
Click to expand...

No it's not that bad. The weakest of the trilogy but still a really good game.

It's all about the events leading up to the
Radical-6 outbreak
.Some of your questions (Like
how Akane knew to kidnap Sigma
) are answered in it.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
Brazil said:
It's a game that's more worried about out-twisting its predecessors than about actually telling a cool story. It has its moments, though.

Yes. That's the whole point of the game, actually.
Click to expand...

Ok cool. That actually has me a bit excited.

Kinsei said:
No it's not that bad. The weakest of the trilogy but still a really good game.

It's all about the events leading up to the
Radical-6 outbreak
.Some of your questions (Like
how Akane knew to kidnap Sigma
) are answered in it.
Click to expand...

Oh ok that's good to know.
 
Avallon

Avallon

Member
Zero Time Dilemma is great and if you're thirsting for more Zero Escape action, I say jump right in.

Fuck the haters.

If not, there's always Danganronpa.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
Zero Time Dilemma is a great game IMO, but clearly the weakest in the trilogy. Go into it expecting some wack shit to happen with lowered expectations and you'll probably be fine. I personally love the way it ends things, but even if I didn't I think I'd rather have its ending than have to deal with the huge cliffhanger that is VLR's ending.

Anyways, VLR is a masterpiece and a top 10 of all-time game, IMO. Constantly engrossing story, fantastic characters, twists and turns everywhere you look. On my initial playthrough I was a little disappointed despite thinking it was fantastic since it wasn't really the 999-2 I wanted, but upon replaying the ZE trilogy it was the only game I liked more the second time around.
 
bobawesome

bobawesome

Member
Stop while you're ahead.

freeofgreed said:
Yikes! that bad?

Does ZTD
go over the events that led to the outbreak of radical-6 or will we never find this out?
Click to expand...

Seriously, whatever thoughts about the events you have in your head right now are infinitely better than how they play out in Zero Time Dilemma. A lot of the questions you ask in the OP aren't answered or even brought up.

And if you want to still play the game despite this, don't read the epilogue files after you beat the game. Seriously some of the worst writing I've seen in any game. I think even people who love ZTD will agree with me on that, if nothing else.
 
K

Korigama

Member
Eh, ZE peaked with 999, and somehow managed to get worse with every new game. The decision to make it a trilogy when that was never the plan from the beginning was always a mistake.
 
S

Strings

Member
My favourite game of all time. I can only imagine how fucking irritating it must have been to map out and coherently write it all.

Also, the soundtrack is absolutely awesome. Like, unfgh.

guyssorry said:
Incredible game. Incredible soundtrack. Glad you loved it.
Click to expand...

DOQBm18.gif
 
K

KneehighPark

Member
I'm in the minority; I really liked ZTD. My one gripe with it is that it straight up doesn't answer some hanging plot threads from VLR
 
A

Anung

Un Rama
I loved 999 but the new graphical style in VLR does nothing for me so I'm finding it hard to get through.
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
Anung said:
I loved 999 but the new graphical style in VLR does nothing for me so I'm finding it hard to get through.
Click to expand...
The 3d graphics are a major shame, but the game itself was an awesome ride. It's got a better paced experience than 999 did.

Too bad ZTD manages to even make VLR a little bit worse retroactively, since so much of VLR is teasing into the grand finale that ZTD was meant to be
 
M

Madao

Member
i replayed all 3 games last month after the price error that had ZTD for $10 in amazon.

of all 3, VLR is probably the one i enjoyed the most. it's pretty long and i like how it pieces together everything by the end. i feel 999 is a more wholesome experience since it can stand alone without problem while VLR ends in a cliffhanger.

i'd like to share my 2 cents on ZTD but the OP hasn't played it. all i can say is to keep your expectations in check.
 
M

MadeULook

Member
999 and VLR are absolutely excellent games that I would easily recommend to anyone who seems interested in them. The puzzles are mostly genuinely well designed, fun challenges. I found the writing quality to be hit and miss but the characters and story were enjoyable so it was easy to overlook that.

ZTD however, has some incredibly dumb writing decisions both character and story wise. Along with a third of the cast being completely useless, who are just there to pad out the game length and add in a convoluted plot twist. Easily one of my biggest disappointments in gaming.

Oh hell, reading though some these I forgot about all the hanging plot threads and unanswered questions in ZTD. The ones they do answer are mostly unsatisfying to boot.
 
K

Kaizer

Banned
It's funny, the only game in the series I've played is VLR & I absolutely adored it. Hearing all the bad stuff about ZTD bums me out as the way VLR ended sent my mind into overdrive about when the next game would come out. Will still get around to playing it eventually.
 
F

Fluloco

Member
You have to play ZTD by knowing that (VLR Spoilers)
what you call the true ending (Another Time, the one with Kyle and ? talking in the facility), is actually non-canon. This is a quote from the wikia of the game: "Uchikoshi originally ended the story just with "End or Beginning", but due to an earthquake that happened during the Japanese voice recording sessions, he was opposed to the idea of ending the story just there. So he wrote and added in Another Time, which was not voiced in Japan, and is not canonical to the storyline. Another Time is considered metafiction."

So don't expect any of that to come into play in ZTD.
 
MAtgS

MAtgS

Member
Having just finished the whole trilogy a week or so ago I will say I didn't find ZTD to be that bad, it's got problems galore but some aspects of it kinda grew on me as I played.

freeofgreed said:
Now on to some questions I have...

Whose body did Kyle's conscious go back to in the true ending? If Zero's conscious goes back to inhabit Sigma's conscious on Dec 25th. Then where does Kyle's go back to?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's not the "true" ending. The final sequence in VLR was declared non-canon so any plot threads in it are irrelevant.

I know, pissed me off too.

How are Clover and Alice going to return to their timelines? If there was a way to send them back, then why didn't they just use this method isn't of wasting all this effort with the nonary game?
Click to expand...
Not directly answered but ZTD will provide a possibility. Ask again later.

How did Akane know to kidnap Sigma, Alice and Clover? If Sigma was the mastermind behind the whole thing, and the furthest he's ever jumped back was Dec 25th how did Akane know to kidnap all three of them prior to that? Can Akane jump through time as well? If she can then why does she bother with Sigma? Why couldn't she stop the leak of radical 6 on her own?
Click to expand...

Yeah, trying to stop the outbreak herself would make sense, wouldn't it? ;)

Theorically Akane can potentially jump to other timelines too but has never developed the skill in any of VLR's timelines. Sigma & the other participants were likely contingency if her own powers never developed that far.

Why is Luna shocked at Sigma's robot arms/suspect he's a robot? She should know that he's her creator so why is so surprised when she finds out about his mechanical limbs?
Click to expand...
She's playing the role assigned to her. Or heck, maybe he just never told her before.

Why is Akane so damn strong? She's been able to lift Sigma, Clover, Dio, and Luna. Damn what does she eat 0.o
Click to expand...
Moon gravity.

What happened to Santa and why wasn't he with Akane?
Click to expand...
Good question actually, he never appears after 999. He and Akane co-run an organization called Crash Keys so maybe he got stuck with paper work. Funny thing is the whole game I thought he would be who Tenmyouji was, which was how I figured out the old woman was Akane.


Does ZTD answer any of these questions? How connected is it to 999 and VLR? Because something that surprised me while playing was how many links there were between this game and 999. I knew there'd be some due to Clover and Alice being here but I didn't think there's be that many...
Click to expand...
ZTD does explain a few things......poorly. & it answers some questions about the 1st 2 games that you didn't ask *cough
Phi'sorigins
cough*

bobawesome said:
Stop while you're ahead.



Seriously, whatever thoughts about the events you have in your head right now are infinitely better than how they play out in Zero Time Dilemma. A lot of the questions you ask in the OP aren't answered or even brought up.

And if you want to still play the game despite this, don't read the epilogue files after you beat the game. Seriously some of the worst writing I've seen in any game. I think even people who love ZTD will agree with me on that, if nothing else.
Click to expand...
Jumpy & Kanny are so doomed as a couple.
 
A

Azure Phoenix

Member
Zero Time Dilemma is an abomination that not only doesn't close a lot of the loose ends, but retcons events and characters from 999/VLR, has an absolutely pathetic resolution and the worst plot twist I've ever read. It's also ugly, the voice acting is poor and it has a terrible structure that is not only confusing but will leave you going hours without a puzzle room.

Quit while you're ahead, just pretend that VLR tragically never got a sequel and come up with your own canon plot ending in your head or find some fanfiction - there is no way it can be any worse - ZTD has a high chance of retroactively ruining any enjoyment you've had from the previous games.
 
P

Pellaidh

Neo Member
I loved 999 and VLR (well, with the exception of some of the plot twists in VLR), and I consider Zero Time Dilemma one of the worst games I've ever played, even if I ignore the nonsense story revelations that retroactively make the previous games in the franchise worse.

The presentation style is awful, you can't manually advance text, the voice acting is bad (even though the game contains some of the best Japanese voice actors in the industry), and the entire game is written in a way that makes it basically impossible to care about anything that is going on.
 
S

Spieler Eins

Member
VLR is maybe the best game after Bloodborne this gen. Under its unfortunate animu, it showed (much more than 999 even) how videogame narratives can go beyond any other medium. ZTD is a disappointment, but it at least didn't ruin VLR for me. It's not that bad. It would have been somewhat okay-ish, if it wasn't a sequel to VLR.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Never play ZTD. I know you have a lot of questions due to the cliff hanger in VLR but ZTD is such fanfiction level garbage that you're better off living without an ending. I wish I could go back to the world where the ending was never going to happen.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
VLR is amazing indeed. Don't think I liked it more than 999, but it's still excellent and even more twisted. I have many questions too, and haven't played ZTD yet despite buying it day one. My excitement has been lowered after all the criticism, though I still want to play it.

I love how these games slowly build up more and more mysteries, and at the end almost everything is explained. Of course, nothing is what you expected, with plot twists on top of plot twists and such. I did not expect 999's last scene to be real, and thought it was a joke ending until I played VLR a year later.
 
E

EndMerit

Member
Damnit OP, I was gonna make VLR LTTP thread later this week!
I would have subtitled it "I can do it 9 times"...

Korigama said:
Eh, ZE peaked with 999, and somehow managed to get worse with every new game. The decision to make it a trilogy when that was never the plan from the beginning was always a mistake.
Click to expand...

Anyway, yeah, I'm at the same situation as OP. Haven't played ZTD yet and I'm debating whether or not I ever will. Not only do I think 999 was better and more compact experience (due to the nature of VLR's Nonary Game, 50% of it's endings are meaningless and "fake"), the final revelations of VLR kind of soured the experience for me, especially going forward.

What I mean by that more specifically is; The reason for the Nonary Game to exist in the first place is way more interesting in 999 than in VLR. While Zero in VLR created the game in order to
save the entire world by eventually managing to create alternate timeline where the world didn't get fucked up
, 999's game
literally had to exist is order to not create a time paradox where Zero didn't die as a child and create the the game in order to save [GENDER REDACTED] own life.
That revelation is way more brilliant to me.


Anyway, one more thing I want to ask:
So
Alice is just a red herring
in both games?
In 999 the story sets up
an ancient egyptian whose body was filled with ICE-9 instead of normal water and it's implied that this is a big deal.
Hours later, the game is about to end and even the characters in the game are talking about how
that detail didn't have anything to do with anything after all. Then suddenly the very last thing the game shows us is Egyptian-looking woman standing on the roadside.
Skip to the beginning of VLR,
and there she is again, as an actual character who knows Clover (who still calls herself Clover...) somehow, and even dresses kind of like ancient Egyptian royalty.
20 hours later it's then revealed that the whole ICE-9 thing has nothing to do with her and she's just some French-Egyptian woman loosely involved with the antagonistic group of the game
. And that's where the mystery ends, never brought up again..
She and her backstory get hyped up between 2 games, and all she ends up doing is getting sick and dying in couple of timelines, and solving a single math problem in another one?
 
M

Madao

Member
RionaaM said:
VLR is amazing indeed. Don't think I liked it more than 999, but it's still excellent and even more twisted. I have many questions too, and haven't played ZTD yet despite buying it day one. My excitement has been lowered after all the criticism, though I still want to play it.

I love how these games slowly build up more and more mysteries, and at the end almost everything is explained. Of course, nothing is what you expected, with plot twists on top of plot twists and such. I did not expect 999's last scene to be real, and thought it was a joke ending until I played VLR a year later.
Click to expand...

the 999 teases almost got me. the game almost fooled me into believing
Alice was actually a thousand year old mummy that came back to life and messed with the nonary game.
i thought the game would go into a very different direction if that happened but at least what ended up happening was also pretty good.

Spieler Eins said:
VLR is maybe the best game after Bloodborne this gen. Under its unfortunate animu, it showed (much more than 999 even) how videogame narratives can go beyond any other medium. ZTD is a disappointment, but it at least didn't ruin VLR for me. It's not that bad. It would have been somewhat okay-ish, if it wasn't a sequel to VLR.
Click to expand...

while checking out a wiki about ZTD the other day (was looking for VA names), i stumbled upon a line that said
that ZTD was supposed to be made at the same time as VLR. which means the game would have been a lot more similar to VLR and could have solved the questions with all the details pretty fresh.
. if only VLR hadn't bombed to the point of making ZTD take so long to get made and switch dev teams.
 
H

Hideki Kamiya

Banned
Brazil said:
Easily in my top 5 favorite games ever.

Don't play ZTD for a while or it'll ruin your high (and I say this as someone who liked it more than most).

I tried answering your questions, but I'm sure someone else with a fresh memory will be able to do it better than I could.
Click to expand...

Don't listen to this poster; play ZTD.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
Damn you guys are really buming me out on playing ZTD. I heard it was bad but some of these posts are kinda depressing :/ At least I have the Danganronpa games to look forward to after I'm finished with ZTD...

Also I had some more questions that I forgot to ask in the OP:

What is the point of going back in time and making a new timeline? The game establishes that there exists infinite timelines for every possibility. SO with that in mind even if Sigma didn't create the Nonary games there should already exist timelines where Radical-6 never broke out by default. So it seems kinda pointless for him to do all of this just to make a timeline that wont even erase the old ones.

Breaking off of the last question, why would Dio's organization send him to participate in the Nonary games for? SIgma changing the past wont change the future so why would they care?

How did Sigma get infected by radical 6 again in Luna's route if he was already infected? In the security room, you see Sigma's processing speed slow down. But I don't understand why. His processing speed should've already been slow down, since at the end Akane explains that their slower mental state was the default.

Also instead of trying to stop the spread of Radical-6, why didn't Zero just recreate the cure when he went back in time? I mean he developed it so he should already have the formula
 
I

isaacnukem

Member
Oh, another Zero Escape thread? Time to jump in again with the ZTD isn't that bad brigade. You should play them all. It's the weakest, I'll give people that, but it's still a great ride and closes the series in a good manner. I said it before and I'll say it again, this trilogy is a cult classic in the making.
 
RuneFactoryFanboy

RuneFactoryFanboy

Member
I really enjoyed VLR and also really liked ZTD. If anything I'd say 999 is the weakest of the three games, that's the one that sucked me in the least.

ZTD had a lot of great moments, twists, revelations and that tension & mystery that keeps you wanting more. The structure of the game soured me at first but I eventually got the hang of it.

I encourage you to play ZTD, I enjoyed the ride through. Not sure why many members are talking like there is a night and day difference between VLR and ZTD.
 
E

eternalcircle

Member
RuneFactoryFanboy said:
I really enjoyed VLR and also really liked ZTD. If anything I'd say 999 is the weakest of the three games, that's the one that sucked me in the least.

ZTD had a lot of great moments, twists, revelations and that tension & mystery that keeps you wanting more. The structure of the game soured me at first but I eventually got the hang of it.

I encourage you to play ZTD, I enjoyed the ride through. Not sure why many members are talking like there is a night and day difference between VLR and ZTD.
Click to expand...

But there is... I would post why, but it would be too spoilery for someone who has never played ZTD. Probably better not to so they don't accidentally get spoiled.

I'll keep it super super vague. Do not click if you haven't played all the games.
One game has a basis for, clues, foreshadowing, another doesn't.
 
H

hank_tree

Member
Yeah definitely play ZTD as soon as possible.

I think part of the disappointment with ZTD for a lot of people is the huge gap of time between the release of ZTD and VLR. It could never live up to that anticipation.
 
daemissary

daemissary

Member
Count me as part of the ZTD is pretty good team. I didn’t like it as much as VLR but the vitriol I’m seeing in this thread is way too harsh.
 
C

CheeseCrazee

Neo Member
Not everything about ZTD was bad, however, there was a decent amount of wrong with it. My gripe with it was that I was expecting so much and was not given nearly enough of what I expected. It's still worth a playthrough and considering you liked the others you'll still enjoy this one most likely... Just curb your enthusiasm.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Great that you enjoyed VLR!

ZTD isn't bad, but it was definitely disappointing to lot of people, including myself. The game suffers from pretty bad pacing, somewhat inconsistent character writing and some of the answers being not up to expectations.
 
S

SilentRob

Member
My favorite thing about both Danganronpa and Zero Escape is how hardcore fans immediately scream at every newcomer "DON'T PLAY/WATCH THE FINALE IT SUCKS SO MUCH DON'T DO IT SEE YA", making sure s/he won't be able to form their own opinions and are instead instantly as jaded as they are, even without playing/watching them themselves. Reminds me of Undertale in that those fans also didn't want to allow anyone ever to actually form their own opinion and play stuff themselves, instead telling every newcomer exactly what they must and what the absolutely mustn't play.
 
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