Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lost Levels is just a bad game. SMB2 USA/EU is a vastly superior game in every way.
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Sooo... Super Mario Bros 2 JP/Lost Levels is not the best, huh?
- Thread starter Boogiepop
- Start date
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is my favorite platformer of all time.
But I don't like the SNES version for the following reasons:
- fucked up behavior when breaking bricks from below; can actually fuck you up on some tight jumps
- SMB1 and SMB2 NES versions actually have some graphical differences; SNES versions look the same; world 9 in particular loses all of its visual weirdness in the transition; ending theme is different too
- world 8-3's background was basically eliminated in its entirety, turning what was previously slightly-camouflaged blocks that you could use to help you jump over obstacles into invisible "kaizo" blocks that do the exact opposite
Being able to save after each individual level is nice, but you might as well just do the 100+ 1-up trick in the first level of the 8-bit version instead.
But I don't like the SNES version for the following reasons:
- fucked up behavior when breaking bricks from below; can actually fuck you up on some tight jumps
- SMB1 and SMB2 NES versions actually have some graphical differences; SNES versions look the same; world 9 in particular loses all of its visual weirdness in the transition; ending theme is different too
- world 8-3's background was basically eliminated in its entirety, turning what was previously slightly-camouflaged blocks that you could use to help you jump over obstacles into invisible "kaizo" blocks that do the exact opposite
Being able to save after each individual level is nice, but you might as well just do the 100+ 1-up trick in the first level of the 8-bit version instead.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I love it. But then, I got good at it a long time ago and it's just second nature to me now, no different than the original.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
It's a lot less repetitive than the original.
(Yeah, I know that's not what you meant.)
Burning Justice
the superior princess
The Super Mario All-Stars version of the game is the only version I've played. I liked it, but that version let you save the exact level you were on, so maybe I wouldn't have liked the original as much.
The choose the correct pathway castles that I could not for the life of me get through combined with getting kicked back to -1 of the world killed it for me. Wonder if theres a trick I missed.
All stars giving infinite continues on the same level makes the game so much easier it doesnt feel legitimate!
All stars giving infinite continues on the same level makes the game so much easier it doesnt feel legitimate!
Heh funnily enough, I prefer Lost Levels to the original SMB, it feels like the hot sauce of Mario to me! IMO the only part where the game is actually cheap is the backwards warpzones, which punish you needlessly for exploration. Otherwise, the game just expects a lot out of you, but is actually usually fair in its level designs.
Not for the faint hearted of Mario players of course, but considering how easy (though still enjoyable) Super Mario Bros gets for me, I find this to be a nice change of pace. I even went as far as getting a Sharp Famicom Twin so I could play my original copy
Also yeah I'll admit that the way to get to Worlds A-D is stupid. That's like the one thing I like the All-Stars version for more lol
EDIT: For the record, while I prefer this game to SMB2USA, I still think SMB2 USA is a great game, and I'm glad Nintendo turned Doki Doki Panic into it!
Not for the faint hearted of Mario players of course, but considering how easy (though still enjoyable) Super Mario Bros gets for me, I find this to be a nice change of pace. I even went as far as getting a Sharp Famicom Twin so I could play my original copy
Also yeah I'll admit that the way to get to Worlds A-D is stupid. That's like the one thing I like the All-Stars version for more lol
EDIT: For the record, while I prefer this game to SMB2USA, I still think SMB2 USA is a great game, and I'm glad Nintendo turned Doki Doki Panic into it!
Pila
Member
Same. Good stuff.
Azure Dream
Member
Piranha Plants didn't have to stay in the pipes when you stood next to or on top of them in SMB1, that was specifically a QOL inclusion they added in. Taking it back out for Red Piranhas just to make things harder is cheap. Trampolines that shoot your character off-screen completely, and require you to base your landing on the camera and some last-minute adjustments, in a game that can still be very picky about air momentum, is cheap. Negative warp zones, which just exist to screw with the player (you don't have to take them, you just, you know, have to waste a life, in a game where lives are hard to come by). Hell, the first SMB1 carefully designed the very first brick structure to teach you "Mushrooms are good", and then SMB2j punishes you for trusting that.
SMB1 is full of all sorts of smart decisions, then SMB2j throws them out the window for the sake of making things harder. It's something a less talented developer would do to increase difficulty, hence the "Bad ROM Hack" comparisons.
Lots of over-the-top descriptions... I mean "punishes", really? My young self got hit by a poison mushroom once at the first stage, I already know to avoid them forever.
Trickfinger
Neo Member
How is this not amazing game design to you? turning all your expectations upside down is a good thing imo. If you want the same ruleset you had before just play the original.
Lord British
Member
Yeah. I mean, it's even in the demo roll. Mario runs into the poison mushroom and dies. It's also right at the start so you basically lose nothing and learn a lesson.
Super Mario Bros for Super Players is a fantastic game.
Can you get through there without getting hit?This is the perfect example of why I dont like this game
This is a giant FU to anyone even trying to enjoy it.
Azure Dream
Member
Over-the-top my ass. And they're not that easy to distinguish, especially on a blurry CRT TV, by design. They could've made them more obviously hazardous, still keeping a trap in the prize box, but chose not to. What if even the prize box / question block itself looked slightly off as well? Either one of those things would've improved matters, as an example.
Turning good game design "upside down" isn't always a good thing. You can make things more complex, and more challenging, without throwing out basic gameplay conceits.
You can make any game "hard" just by stripping out niceties and good gameplay decisions. But those things are what separated Super Mario Bros. from other games in the first place.
Yeah... in all honesty, SMB2JP/Lost Levels has legitimately bad game design. Poor level design, intentionally misleading design, and outright trolling the player (backwards warp pipes, etc).. it wasn't finger-skill hard, it was trying to decipher a person that was inexplicably angry at you and beating that.
I beat it as a kid, but it's the one sidescrolling Mario I never want to play again.
I beat it as a kid, but it's the one sidescrolling Mario I never want to play again.
Poison mushrooms are inherently a 'punishing' bullshit trap. Any time you hit a question block it's a SINGLE use kaizo trick. Ok, a poison mushroom came out - now I know not to hit that block. YOU CANNOT however know not to hit that the first time. There's no tell. There's nothing. The gameplay of a poison mushroom is the first time you find one you create an unexpected hazard for yourself, and on future tries you don't even spawn it, that's not interesting in the least other than the singular mindfuck of the very first mushroom in 1-1. Literally an entire bullshit kaizo mechanic based around that one kaizo moment.
Yeah, they're not HARD to avoid, but it's not hard to avoid shit like blocks that randomly fall on you in I Wanna Be The Guy either, it's still bullshit because it's clearly intended to fucking kill you until you know it's going to happen.
It's literally not any different than making certain squares instant death if you step on them - you won't fall for the same trick twice, presumably, and it's not something you can see coming ahead of time. Just there to waste your time.
Rom hack avant-la-lettre is a pretty good description. Sure, its not really much more than that, but keep in mind rom hacks werent a thing back then. So a tough-as-nails remix of one of the best games available was nice to have.
Of course nowadays, far better and more consistently designed SMB-remixes have been made by both rom hackers and Super Mario Maker players. But the OG rom hack still has its place in history.
Of course nowadays, far better and more consistently designed SMB-remixes have been made by both rom hackers and Super Mario Maker players. But the OG rom hack still has its place in history.
This is over-the-top exaggeration: "fucking kill", "kaizo bullshit", "singular mindfuck". Come on, it's literally a different colored mushroom you see in the beginning of the first level that you learn to avoid forever.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
USA Super Mario Bros 2 has won Game of the Year 15 years in a row, so of course it's the better game.
Castlevania II is at least interesting because of the innovations it made that were followed up on later in the series. SMB2 JP is just a harder, cheaper version of SMB.
How is it over the top? If it were as simple as you describe, it might as well not exist. Does it or does it not tend to come out of question mark blocks?
Do you or do you not ahve to encounter each mushroom once in order to know that you should just NOT hit that block in the future?
We both know the answers to this. It's literally an unknowable hazard that is 100% trivial to avoid in general, once you know where they are, but is IMPOSSIBLE to know that you need to avoid those blocks until you do. That's the defining feature of kaizo bullshit.
So long as you come into it knowing it's essentially an official Nintendo Kaizo game, it's an enjoyable experience. I'll admit it was better for the series at the time to have released Super Mario Bros 2. (USA) in the West instead of this one, as it was more accessible and greatly expanded the series, but I think any Mario platformer fan owes it to themselves to go back and experience this game.
tkscz
Member
Yes but holy shit do you have to be precise. First, you have to have room to build speed. Then you have to run, duck, hope you have the speed to duck slide and then jump at the exact right moment not to get hit. I did it once, and ONLY ONCE.
The game felt cheap to me, even as a kid when playing the SNES version. All the wind levels can go eat it.
DarkConfidant
Member
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Yeah, but there's virtually no room for error.
At least that level has a power-up earlier, so you always have the option of just tanking a hit there if you have to.
...It's literally in the title screen demo. And I'm sure that it's in the manual as well.
And heaven forbid that you just learn through playing for 30 seconds if you have to.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm pretty sure even Nintendo considers the western SMB2 to be the "real" SMB2.
SMB3 and SMW using more stuff from SMB2 US than the LL is a pretty good example of that.
SMB3 and SMW using more stuff from SMB2 US than the LL is a pretty good example of that.
SMB2 USA is a fantastic game. It's actually very Super Mario Galaxy-like given how off the wall some of the levels are. I don't understand why it gets such a bad rep.
It was the most creative platformer ever released at that point.
Anyway, OP, SMB2 J is also the only official Super Mario game I haven't beat as well. I actually own the original release on Famicom Disk System. Maybe I should try to finally beat it.
Kuramu
Member
This is the perfect example of why I dont like this game
This is a giant FU to anyone even trying to enjoy it.
Haha, I personally love stuff like this. Pushing you right to the edge of your skills. For reference I also loved Veni Vidi Vici in VVVVVV
This is the perfect example of why I dont like this game
This is a giant FU to anyone even trying to enjoy it.
(I agree that shit is bonkers-difficult).
Lol. I bit one or two controller growing up too. Videogame rage is real.
Unknowable hazard, IMPOSSIBLE (capitalized), Kaizo bullshit. Seriously, these descriptions. I'd imagine you describing a bad $9 burrito in the most epic way possible. We have seen Kaizo, namedropping Kaizo over and over waters down how bad Kaizo stuff really is. Can we chill with the over-exaggerations and superlatives? It's not like hitting a poisonous mushroom block means instant death the way Kaizo death traps are, well okay unless you show me a scenario similar to Keyser's GIF.
DarkConfidant
Member
This is the perfect example of why I dont like this game
This is a giant FU to anyone even trying to enjoy it.
Which level is this from?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
One of the worlds in the second quest (lettered worlds).
There's an easier version of that obstacle that shows up somewhere in the first 8 worlds.
The first one is. Is every single poison mushroom in the game?
Ok, so uncapitalize it in your mind and actually read the sentence instead of being obtuse. It is not possible to know ahead of time, and you keep tiptoeing around that fact. It's not an exaggeration, so calling it one is a little silly. Hazards that you cannot possibly anticipate prior to a simple guess, is trial and error plain and simple. Good games do not rely on that, Kaizo games do.
how are you not reading your posts and going "Yeah this sounds a little over the top" like fuck me dude this post reads like the heated finale of a law procedural and its over a dumb mushroom most people just go "oh gotta avoid this one then" and move on from
I played the all-star version quite a bit when I was a kid. Didn't consider it that hard at the time but coming back to it years later I definitely struggled at times. I also tried the original version when it came out on the Wii but didn't care to play for long. The SNES version minor smoothing of the edges were for the best if you're not a purist.