ThatCrazyGuy
Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Having awesome mobility and tools is not fun enough and would be boring? I never said take out his loops. I have an issue with the massive meter gain during the loops above and beyond everybody else.
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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
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Having awesome mobility and tools is not fun enough and would be boring? I never said take out his loops. I have an issue with the massive meter gain during the loops above and beyond everybody else.
SolarPowered
Member
This makes me wonder what people think of Hsien-Ko, Arthur and the rest. I bet most people don't even know felicia exists lol.~Devil Trigger~ said:
Just make them cancelable into safe supers, which is what they've always done in vs games. Akuma can do it, people don't do it as often as they should really. Ryu should be able to use it better imo (you basically can't dp xx shinkuu if you have 3 bars, and if you delay it he can't aim the beam down). Cyclops had the same thing in 2. Before the game came out I thought it'd be funny to make Ryu's dp air unblockable.Riposte said:
Well, I mostly use top tiers so this is going to look like most lists haha. Not gonna mention xfactor since I think that should be changed universally.SolarPowered said:
Wolverine
- Only A version of berserker slash can cross up. Add slight startup to A berserker slash, similar to Wesker's teleport before he moves. B and C berserker slashes remain the same speed, but never pass through the opponent.
- Dive kick bounces only when done after a drill claw (i.e. you gain access to the bounce version of the dive kick after drill claw). Instead, it slams (otg state) on raw air hit. Ground CH stun removed. Command changed to d+C only, instead of d/b or d/f+C, so it cannot be option selected with block+air throw+tech. Maybe shrink the hitbox a little, particularly the part above his foot.
- Overall damage reduction on normal attacks. Right now his C does over 90k, way too much. His normals should do around the same damage as Dante's. Slight damage reduction on fatal claw.
Dante
- Lose the backward hitboxes on his ground normals. Stand A is already good enough, he doesn't need to hit your assist from behind when you pin him between you and it.
- Slight range decrease on st.A, enough so that if stand A hits at it's max range, stand B will connect as well.
- Shorten the side of the hitbox on j.S that is closest to Dante, so that it doesn't randomly cross up.
- Make otg d/f+CCC, qcb+A hit properly on Magneto and Taskmaster, I think some other characters as well (they fall out mysteriously).
- Make the followups of C~b+C and qcb+A~C come out consistently on whiff, without the need for just-frame timing or mashing+pray. Or just make them not possible at all. I think these particular moves should be balanced based on the moves, not just frames.
- This is more of a universal change, but I think there should be a hard cap on meter gain during combos; you should not be allowed to build more than 2 bars from start to finish. I think it's pretty stupid that Dante can do a corner bnb with 2 assists and build 3 bars. Also, the opponent should keep building the meter they normally gain when being hit after yours stops at 2 bars.
- 350-400k for his level 3, since he can do a full combo afterwards.
- Give him some more devil trigger-only moves. Maybe a command grab that he can otg off of!
Mags
- More startup and recovery on disruptor, similar to Marvel 2.
- 2 meter cap on single combo meter gain (universal change).
- A bit above Dante-ish damage on normals (similar to 'low' damage setting)
- Make his ground and air throw freeze for less time, so that better execution (trijumps) is required to followup with a combo midscreen.
Wesker
- 950k
- A bit above Dante-ish damage on normals (similar to 'low' damage setting)
Taskmaster
- 1k
- Overall damage reduction (similar to low damage setting)
- Make his dp+A/B/C not overhead so you can't take the hit if you're in block stun
Spencer
- Make it so his qcf+A/B/C have reasonable recovery.
Dormamu
- 1.1k
- Make his low B hit more horizontally (as well as retaining its vertical hitbox) so it hits everyone crouching
- Let his ground throw knock down (not allow an otg)
Doom
- Big damage+chip buff on jazz hands and jazz hands super. Make jazz hands into pink shit again.
- Make j.C laser faster and go fullscreen (FULL fullscreen).
- Make jazz hands super air only, change level 3 to qcb, make qcf his old front ball super.
Iron Man
- Rework his normals/double jumps so that his fly/unfly combos are more consistent/easier and have more possible variations.
- Get rid of low C missile, replace with War Machine-ish normal that can be used as combo filler.
- Make S faster in execution.
- Change something so that it is possible to chain into j.u+C in a jump without getting a double jump. Maybe make certain moves not jcable? Basically part of the first change.
- Make smart bombs A+S, and make them way, way bigger. For different distances either use a different combination (B+S, C+S), or f/b+A+S.
Sent
- 1.1k
- Drones travel faster and are closer together.
- Fix his crouching hitbox so he can be thrown by certain characters that cannot throw him crouching. Do the same for his cr.B.
- Much less damage on normals (launcher down to 100k at least)
- All armor removed.
- Flight speed way faster, halfway between mvc3 and mvc2 flight speed.
- Make jump C faster.
- Remove bounce on j.S, now always slams (otg state). To get good damage air-to-air, chain into rocket punch/hard drive is needed.
- Make rocket punch generally safe on block (mvc2-ish).
Storm
- Re-work her normals (give them better hitboxes) so that her combos are more stable. Especially make it so you can hit with cr.A,cr.B,cr.C vs an opponent just above the ground, just like every other character in this game can. Either that or take it away hitting with lows vs airborne opponents away from everyone, lol.
- Make Typhoon and Whirlwind faster in execution, especially Typhoon.
- Make hailstorm hit the ENTIRE screen. You can't fucking dodge rain!
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Wolvies dive doesn't bounce with some added recovery and he get no instant overhead because being able to get an easy 70% meter combo off of it is dumb as hell.
Phoenix is removed from the game. This removes a lot of my issues with Magnus as well, however estaka could still take a nerf in start-up or recovery.
All of Dante's invulnerablity is removed from his hammer, son of a bitch already has enough tools and the move remains valuable as a combo extender.
Weskers counters are made to work, people learn that they can duck his standing H making him have possibly the most punishable magic series in the game.
Spencer's "get over here" no long has a billion frames of recovery is used on the ground.
Haggar's ruggedness means he can no longer be harmed by any kind of projectile (or he gets a super-armour hyper), his command grabs either do 4 times the damage or he gets follow ups off them to make them a viable option.
Your game is now fixed gentlemen... Well outside of the buffs needed for the vast majority of the cast that I don't play as.
Phoenix is removed from the game. This removes a lot of my issues with Magnus as well, however estaka could still take a nerf in start-up or recovery.
All of Dante's invulnerablity is removed from his hammer, son of a bitch already has enough tools and the move remains valuable as a combo extender.
Weskers counters are made to work, people learn that they can duck his standing H making him have possibly the most punishable magic series in the game.
Spencer's "get over here" no long has a billion frames of recovery is used on the ground.
Haggar's ruggedness means he can no longer be harmed by any kind of projectile (or he gets a super-armour hyper), his command grabs either do 4 times the damage or he gets follow ups off them to make them a viable option.
Your game is now fixed gentlemen... Well outside of the buffs needed for the vast majority of the cast that I don't play as.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
i play Arthur, he's hella fun for meSolarPowered said:
the diversity of the chars playstyle and startegies is what makes this game fun and still interesting
alot of the nerfs people are asking here are just making the character's different approaches more and more alike.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Dandy J, you have some good ideas but Dorm doesn't need any more health.
Other than that, I disagree with a lot of your Sentinel ideas. Pretty much the rest is solid.
Other than that, I disagree with a lot of your Sentinel ideas. Pretty much the rest is solid.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Anth0ny said:
Yes, if you consider one character 50/50s no matter where she is on screen along with the 1 to 1.2 million damage combos without x-factor and the best rush-down/keep-away in the game to be balanced. Oh, almost forgetting how they made everything she does safe and made her normals spit fire. Also her traps wall-bounce to make that character killing combo that much easier when them come in is the most balanced thing I've ever seen.
Phoenix will never be balanced.
So I played online for the first time. Yeah...
I'm pretty mediocre at SSFIV, so I wasn't expecting good things. I didn't expect it to be that bad though. And the lag... it's going to take some time to adjust that. My internet is ass, but SSFIV is perfectly playable as long as I stick to green bar matches. Marvel? You have to actively compensate for lag, as the timing for everything is significantly different. After a while, I just went with magic series combos, because that was all I could manage. Sucks, because I'll never play this game offline, as I have no one to play with.
Oh and my C.Viper is ass. Without the ability to do Seismo chains consistently, I can't control space. And without that, I don't have much. My Spider-Man would be okay, if I could actually finish more than a quarter of a combo. I did the best with Trish, but that's because I can zone with her. She so slow though.
I'm pretty mediocre at SSFIV, so I wasn't expecting good things. I didn't expect it to be that bad though. And the lag... it's going to take some time to adjust that. My internet is ass, but SSFIV is perfectly playable as long as I stick to green bar matches. Marvel? You have to actively compensate for lag, as the timing for everything is significantly different. After a while, I just went with magic series combos, because that was all I could manage. Sucks, because I'll never play this game offline, as I have no one to play with.
Oh and my C.Viper is ass. Without the ability to do Seismo chains consistently, I can't control space. And without that, I don't have much. My Spider-Man would be okay, if I could actually finish more than a quarter of a combo. I did the best with Trish, but that's because I can zone with her. She so slow though.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
... I haven't been in this thread in a while.
What's spawned all these "My list of fixes for MvC3 xoxox" posts? Is there going to be a patch that I don't know about and people are making their wish lists?
What's spawned all these "My list of fixes for MvC3 xoxox" posts? Is there going to be a patch that I don't know about and people are making their wish lists?
they're not going to rebalance the game yall: you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.
... unless it's Marvel 2. fuck that shit.
... unless it's Marvel 2. fuck that shit.
Prototype-03
Member
Adam Prime said:
I think it's their wish list for SMvC3. A lot of these changes don't account on some of these mid tiers (or even low tier) being OP once the top tier gets brought down and then they buff the mid tiers making them top tier. Also, this game has so many variables that loke tests would help a lot, but I don't think they're going to do that.
DR2K
Banned
~Devil Trigger~ said:
I've never seen a Storm combo last anywhere near as long. And Zero has to fight to get a hit in, that's not really the case with Magneto thanks to his speed, range, and mobility. As far as meter building, it's unfair that he can build a level 3 so quickly and use it as a touch of death if he wants.
I think nerfing top characters would allow for the lower characters to be more used. Especially the ones used excessively.
The idea is to make him a non-stupid version of mvc2 sent, which was one of the coolest fg char designs ever. I was really disappointed that they took away everything that made him cool in mvc2 (stomp patterns, mobility), and kept+made better everything that made him retarded (damage, armor).Mister Wilhelm said:
Killa Sasa
Member
Spider-Man - Don't touch him unless it's giving his ground normals better hitboxes. I'm pretty happy with how he turned out. Plays like a spider would.
Iron Man - Everybody's covered it basically. Needs to be less situational w.r.t. normals hitboxes. Health buff would be nice but not necessary. He's really close to being real good though.
X-23 - Leave her alone, she seems pretty effective when played properly.
Let's just say I'm pretty happy with my characters
Iron Man - Everybody's covered it basically. Needs to be less situational w.r.t. normals hitboxes. Health buff would be nice but not necessary. He's really close to being real good though.
X-23 - Leave her alone, she seems pretty effective when played properly.
Let's just say I'm pretty happy with my characters
Killa Sasa said:Spider-Man - Don't touch him unless it's giving his ground normals better hitboxes. I'm pretty happy with how he turned out. Plays like a spider would.
Iron Man - Everybody's covered it basically. Needs to be less situational w.r.t. normals hitboxes. Health buff would be nice but not necessary. He's really close to being real good though.
X-23 - Leave her alone, she seems pretty effective when played properly.
Let's just say I'm pretty happy with my characters
I'd change Spiderman's spidey swing to either be a QCB or a b.H, it'd make him so much more enjoyable.
Killa Sasa
Member
Ultimoo said:
I like the RDP, it makes him unique. It really isn't that bad after some practice. I was pretty pissed about it before too, but I just got used to it.
QCB would overlap with web throw which would be bad, and as a command normal I think Capcom would be like "It's easy, so it doesn't need to be at advantage anymore!". It would also be bad to accidentally get one while trying to set yourself up for a Spider Sting. I feel like they did the best they could for his inputs with a general lack of attack buttons.
This has to be a joke post... Dante doesn't even have a command grab in the DMC games his only grab move is already in the game (Grapple). And really now... give Dante MORE MOVES??? I am a DMC/Dante fan and even I am against this.
It's coming MAN.
I had to take a break to watch Bayformers 3.
The topic was "how will you change the characters that you play with". It's not really a general nerf/buff discussion because that's just too huge of a spectrum to cover.
I have glossed over most of these nerfs/buffs and none of them would make a character drop or rise that dramatically. They are fairly reasonable especially when you see where they are coming from (like the hitbox on Dorm's cr.M or his ability to hit confirm form his normals). Certainly more so than dropping 400K off of Sentinel's health which seems to be Capcom's idea of a nerf.
I get satisfaction out of blowing up Ammy. Seriously, fuck Ammy.Ultimoo said:
But yes, Sentinel no longer being anything terrifying to anyone is a beautiful thing.
Stoked to see this. My body is ready for some X-Factor Level 3 Optimus goodness. He already died with 5 bars and got resurrected in the 2nd.Dahbomb said:It's coming MAN.
I had to take a break to watch Bayformers 3.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
DR2K said:
you do know Storm has loops too right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvfljjnVvw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b9SOtnrd-w&feature=related
and Zero arguably has the highest priority normals in the game, with good range and great cross up game, For a rushdown character he has plenty of tools to get in; blaster, hadangeki raikusen, teleport, and couple those with the right assist....
the game is designed with absurdity in mind, characters should feel powerful. Top characters are for the most part fine. Its the bottom characters that need few buffs to be more competitive.
EG Justin Wong vs Mine at NCR9 Grand Finals (NSFW) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0_rtDLZxT0
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Uppercuts are just flat-out less useful as anti-airs in a series where air guard exists. Unless you can combo after them or utilize their invincibility frames, they don't serve much use in this game compared to SF.Riposte said:
black_vegeta
Member
Professor Beef said:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Can't stop laughing. XD
MVC3 ANALYSIS OF USA MAJORS
The following facts and figures are obtained from the listed 8 major MVC3 tournaments in the USA:
Winter Brawl, Final Round, PowerUp, UFGT, CEO, Revelations, NorCal Regionals, ECT 3.
All the characters that have appeared in a GRAND FINAL (Winner and Runner Up) for the major tournaments.
Read list as: Character, Number of appearances and in brackets Tournaments Won and Runner Up positions.
SHE HULK 5 (4, 1)
WOLVERINE 5 (3, 2)
PHOENIX 4 (2, 2)
AMATERASU 4 (2, 2)
SENTINEL 4 (1, 3)
DORMAMMU 4 (1, 3)
MAGNETO 4 (0, 4)
WESKER 3 (2, 1)
AKUMA 3 (2, 1)
TRON 3 (1, 2)
TASKMASTER 2 ( 1, 1)
RYU 1 (1, 0)
STORM 1 (1, 0)
IRON MAN 1 (1, 0)
DANTE 1 (1, 0)
SPENCER 1 (1, 0)
ZERO 1 (0, 1)
DR DOOM 1 (0, 1)
HAGGAR 1 (0, 1)
Characters are listed in order of appearance and then # of tournaments won. In case of equal values, the character who has won a more recent tournament will be listed first.
SOME FACTS BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE MAJOR TOURNAMENTS
*She Hulk has the best record out of the entire cast with 5 appearances and 4 majors won. However, this record spans the first 4 tournaments only and She Hulk has been sparse in every tournament after UFGT.
*Wolverine is the opposite of She Hulk. While he was sparse in every tournament before UFGT, he became dominant very quickly afterward (almost exactly after he was declared #1 at PowerUp despite not placing there).
*Magneto is the ONLY character who has made as many as 4 appearances in a grand final yet has not won a major tournament. He has the most Runner Up positions.
*Exactly 18 different characters have been used in the grand finals, which is exactly half of the current roster.
*Among She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker... these 3 characters have won EVERY SINGLE MAJOR in the USA.
*While a majority of the teams in grand finals were capable of using the DHC glitch, very few teams were actually set up to use it. In fact in the grand finals of all the majors, DHC glitch was very sparse.
*Justin Wong has the most USA tournaments won out of all players in MVC3 at 3 (NorCal Regionals, UFGT and Winter Brawl). He also has the most Runner Up spots at 2. He has one 3rd spot and 2 majors he didn't attend so he has essentially placed no less than 3rd in EVERY MAJOR MVC3 tournament he has participated in.
*Before CEO/Revelations (which were on the same weekend), Phoenix had never appeared in a grand final. In 3 consecutive tournaments, she appeared 4 times and won 2 times.
*Average health of a Point character which went on to win a major tournament is over 1 million!
*Most used Point character = She Hulk
Most used 2nd character = Amaterasu
Most used Anchor character = Phoenix
Sentinel was used at 2nd spot in Tokido's team so he just missed out on most used Anchor character. Ammy was used in 2nd spot in all but one team and even in that team she was used 2nd at least one time during the course of the tournament (Chris G ECT). Wolverine would've tied She Hulk but JWong used him at 2nd spot in one major so he comes in second to She Hulk.
ANALYSIS OF THE MAJORS
(This analysis is made based on the facts presented from the major tournaments)
EXECUTION
Execution has been a huge factor in all the major MVC3 tournaments. It has for the most part dictated character selection and has also dictated character wins. A character who is easy to play, does big damage, has nice hit boxes and decent mix ups is a character who has placed in a tournament.
Judging from the characters who have won, it's safe to say that it's the "easy" half of the roster that has made it. The only few exceptions here are Iron Man who got one spot and Hulk who despite being easy to play with hasn't placed. The grand finals have also shied away from unorthodox characters and DLC characters.
It is also a major reason why characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker have placed high consistently where as others like Magneto and Dante have placed very little if at all even though most would agree there isn't much difference among these characters potential wise... except for level of execution. Certainly watching most of the these tournaments have shown that dropped combos are a reality and Magneto/Dante lead the pack in dropped combos. Dante out of the top 5 characters has by far the least appearances with all the rest having at least 3 or 4 to his one and only appearance at PowerUp. C Viper is no where to be seen despite being agreed upon as being a "top character".
Not only that but based upon selection of combos, players have gravitated towards mid level to day 1 combos for their characters. High level combos have rarely been used in grand finals play.
Execution is going to play a major role in EVO as well. Character selection is going to be based around "who can get me an easy win". Combos will be dropped by certain characters more often than other characters (Wolverine combos will almost never be dropped).
STYLE OF PLAY: DOMINANCE OF RUSHDOWN AND MIX UPS
The facts displayed by the majors yell out one very obvious detail about the game's meta: Rushdown is king and mix ups dictate the pace of a match. As stated in the fact sheet, the majors are dominated by Point characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker who are great at rushing down and even better at mix ups.
Very few zoning characters have placed high and those who are exclusively zoning characters are no where to be found (like Chris and Arthur). The most zoning style team in a grand final was Noel Brown's Dormammu/Sentinel/Doom team and it made Runner Up. Even those characters who by design are zoning characters are being played in a more rushdown style in the majors.
Even on a Phoenix team, mix ups and rushdown dominate. A Phoenix team which is more about mix ups/rushdown has been more successful (2 won) with Wesker/Wolverine than a Phoenix team that is more about zoning (Taskmaster or Dormmamu on a Phoenix team has placed no better than Runner Up).
This very rushdown style of play has even dictated assist selection. Top tier assists like Cold Star, Tatsu and Sentinel Drones have been more popular and more successful in grand finals than "get off me" assists like Gustaff Flame and Lariat. An assist that locksdown and allows for mix ups is a more valued assist in the game's current meta.
Mix ups on incoming characters has been a huge advancement in MVC3 technology and it has allowed Wolverine to become a very dominant character in the game over She Hulk. Other characters have developed similar strategies and it is now a must for any top tier team to have mix ups ready for incoming characters due to the resurgence of Phoenix play.
One other important fact to note down is that characters with very good air throw game have dominated the grand finals.
This pattern of rushdown, mix ups and assists that amplify such play will dominate at EVO... even on Phoenix teams.
X FACTOR USAGE
A sharp 180 degree turn in X factor usage has caused a major change in how players make teams and use them especially in a grand final. In the early days of the grand finals for MVC3, X factor usage was dominated by LVL3. In the latter half, EVEN AGAINST PHOENIX matches were overflowing with LVL1 X Factors.
This also goes hand in hand with the change of dominance of She Hulk from Wolverine. Once players learned to handle X factor'd characters better it became much more valuable to kill the first character and have a crack at the incoming character. With the way that most players built their team, the first character was usually their strongest (with their 2nd one being either their best or at least 2nd best) so burning XF early ended up being a game winning strategy.
The exception to the rule is of course on a Phoenix team where it is advantageous for both players to save their X Factors for the end unless Phoenix was snapped in and killed. Even this changed during CEO when Tokido showed the world how to REALLY play a Phoenix team... burning X Factor and meter judiciously for the character kills. It opened people's eyes and the meta-game was changed completely after that.
Going into EVO, only the most staunch Phoenix players will be saving their X Factors. It's only when a team gets BLOWN UP when they HAVE to use LVL3 will we see late X factors at EVO. When Wolverine is being played on point.... expect early X factor activations.
DHC GLITCHES
DHC glitches had their time but now they are a relic. With such high damage options, LVL3 hypers, early activations of X factor, Phoenix meta and team order headaches players have had little reason to use DHC glitches in grand finals.
This doesn't mean that we won't see them at EVO, but they aren't going to be as rampant. Killing characters have never been easier.
THE PHOENIX PROBLEM
She is a problem and she needs to be solved. The combination of Wolverine as point and Phoenix as anchor has created a new monstrosity for players to deal with. Early X factor usage on a Phoenix team has also created some problems that players are having difficulty dealing with. Tokido is the forerunner of this strategy and he has won every single major he has been in with it.
Phoenix used to be inconsequential early in the game's life. Hard to bring about and very low health meant that she was a gamble in tournament play. Slowly players found ways to put the odds in their favors. They broke it down into a science, where all they needed was one combo to guarantee a Dark Phoenix resurrection. The starting 1 meter, 2 and a half meter from just killing your own character and 1 and a half meter from a good combo confirmed Dark Phoenix if there was no snap back.
Technology was advanced to such a level that all you needed was one good point character and one good assist character and you were set. Wesker + Iron Man or Wolverine + Sentinel. The technology was advanced again when people realized that using X Factor in a combo yielded stupendous amounts of meter and killed off opponent's characters judiciously. Early X Factor usage guaranteed as 2 v 4 or sometimes even a 1 v 4 confrontation. Even a LVL3 X Factor could not surmount such odds.
Phoenix defines the current meta of MVC3. You either have a Phoenix team or you have a really solid anti-Phoenix team/strategy/technology up your sleeve to deal with the problem. The rise of good Phoenix gatekeepers like Wesker/Wolverine makes matters worse where they are pretty much free to do whatever they want and are generally exposed to less punishment because the other player is too busy worrying about Phoenix on deck.
It goes without saying but... expect to see Phoenix at EVO.
HEALTH MATTERS
One very under appreciated aspect of high level play or even grand final play is that the average health of a point character is much higher than people think it is. Certainly... among She Hulk/Wolverine/Wesker (I would add that the combined total of these characters wins equals ALL the majors in the USA!) their average health is over 1 million!
When coming up with the tiers list it was becoming very obvious that the low health characters were the dominant characters in this game. She Hulk was placed lower than Zero/Ammy, Wolverine lower than Magneto. However as the tournaments unfolded, it were the characters with the slightly higher health that dominated. A lot of the times when a Wesker faced off Magneto.. the Magneto player would get in the first hit do a very long fancy combo (building both his meter and the opponent) and would finish the combo right when Wesker is at the verge of dying. Then Wesker counter attacks with a LVL3 hyper because of all the meter that had been built up from the combo which is enough to kill low health Magneto.
The same applied to Wolverine and She Hulk. In grand finals this health differential ended up being a deciding factor in many matches. One could bring the counter examples of Phoenix and Amaterasu however to that you have to realize that Amaterasu is a very hard to hit character as it is and Phoenix has inflated health. At 5 bars she becomes one of the most difficult characters to kill out right as she not only has the game's ONLY combo breaker but a combination of Healing Field and death feathers makes the task sometimes insurmountable.
Another example is the drop in Sentinel usage. Sentinel made the bulk of teams in the early days of MVC3 but after the controversial health nerf players quickly dropped Sentinel. Those who stuck with Sentinel did so mostly because of the power of his assist and less as his potential as a point character. High level players are now lamenting the nerf and would settle for a middle ground (1.1 million compared to 900K and 1.3 million).
An interesting aspect of health is that while it is very important for the 1st character to have higher health than normal... the 2nd or 3rd character usually gets away with below average health. Examples being Ammy/Zero at 2nd spot and Akuma/Phoenix at 3rd spot. It goes to show that the extra health in front gives players enough time to gauge the opponent so that they can play accordingly with their more pixie style characters.
RESULTS vs POTENTIAL TIER LISTS
Something that is going to come immediately to a person's mind when they see these results is "do these results indicate a potential tier list for the game?" Certainly when you compare the results to the tier lists that people have put up, there are similarities.
However, neither results nor tier lists paint the full picture. This game is VERY EARLY in it's life cycle and as shown people are just sticking with the "easy" to use and win characters rather than investing the time in the "potential" characters. Tournament results factor in execution greatly but potential tier lists do not. It's why you will see Dante and C Viper place high on tier lists but not in tournaments. Issue of dropped combos is not something that factors in tier lists but it factors greatly in tournament play.
Lower tiered easy characters will place high in tournaments and higher tiered difficult characters will place low in tournaments. Stuff like this happens however if you look at both and make proper analysis of the current meta game then you can get an idea of what is happening and what will happen. Wolverine/She Hulk own the game because they are easy to use and effective at what they do. People can just watch a match or two of these characters, hop into training mode for a few hours, get the right assists and then go to a tournament and perform well. This does not apply to the high execution/high potential characters like C Viper where the match data is sparse. Anyone deciding to go and learn someone like Iron Man, Spider Man, Felicia etc does so at their own peril. They have to develop their own strategies, own teams and set ups... it's a difficult task to do all by yourself.
That is not to say that these characters might not place high in tournaments but it's not going to happen soon. The technology might be there but the execution and mindset isn't there and if those 2 factors aren't there then they won't be used and they won't win. This goes back to the days of vanilla SF4 where why should you use C Viper and Abel when you can pick Sagat and Ryu and fireball/DP all day?
Top level players are humans too, they make mistakes and they want the maximium profit for the minimum effort. They will invest in whatever they feel will get them the win. And certainly this has dictated character selection and results. Even in their minds, they might have a character or two which they believe if they spent like 2-3 months on just that character they can make it godlike. But there is only 1 month until EVO... what do YOU think they are going to do?
The following facts and figures are obtained from the listed 8 major MVC3 tournaments in the USA:
Winter Brawl, Final Round, PowerUp, UFGT, CEO, Revelations, NorCal Regionals, ECT 3.
All the characters that have appeared in a GRAND FINAL (Winner and Runner Up) for the major tournaments.
Read list as: Character, Number of appearances and in brackets Tournaments Won and Runner Up positions.
SHE HULK 5 (4, 1)
WOLVERINE 5 (3, 2)
PHOENIX 4 (2, 2)
AMATERASU 4 (2, 2)
SENTINEL 4 (1, 3)
DORMAMMU 4 (1, 3)
MAGNETO 4 (0, 4)
WESKER 3 (2, 1)
AKUMA 3 (2, 1)
TRON 3 (1, 2)
TASKMASTER 2 ( 1, 1)
RYU 1 (1, 0)
STORM 1 (1, 0)
IRON MAN 1 (1, 0)
DANTE 1 (1, 0)
SPENCER 1 (1, 0)
ZERO 1 (0, 1)
DR DOOM 1 (0, 1)
HAGGAR 1 (0, 1)
Characters are listed in order of appearance and then # of tournaments won. In case of equal values, the character who has won a more recent tournament will be listed first.
SOME FACTS BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE MAJOR TOURNAMENTS
*She Hulk has the best record out of the entire cast with 5 appearances and 4 majors won. However, this record spans the first 4 tournaments only and She Hulk has been sparse in every tournament after UFGT.
*Wolverine is the opposite of She Hulk. While he was sparse in every tournament before UFGT, he became dominant very quickly afterward (almost exactly after he was declared #1 at PowerUp despite not placing there).
*Magneto is the ONLY character who has made as many as 4 appearances in a grand final yet has not won a major tournament. He has the most Runner Up positions.
*Exactly 18 different characters have been used in the grand finals, which is exactly half of the current roster.
*Among She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker... these 3 characters have won EVERY SINGLE MAJOR in the USA.
*While a majority of the teams in grand finals were capable of using the DHC glitch, very few teams were actually set up to use it. In fact in the grand finals of all the majors, DHC glitch was very sparse.
*Justin Wong has the most USA tournaments won out of all players in MVC3 at 3 (NorCal Regionals, UFGT and Winter Brawl). He also has the most Runner Up spots at 2. He has one 3rd spot and 2 majors he didn't attend so he has essentially placed no less than 3rd in EVERY MAJOR MVC3 tournament he has participated in.
*Before CEO/Revelations (which were on the same weekend), Phoenix had never appeared in a grand final. In 3 consecutive tournaments, she appeared 4 times and won 2 times.
*Average health of a Point character which went on to win a major tournament is over 1 million!
*Most used Point character = She Hulk
Most used 2nd character = Amaterasu
Most used Anchor character = Phoenix
Sentinel was used at 2nd spot in Tokido's team so he just missed out on most used Anchor character. Ammy was used in 2nd spot in all but one team and even in that team she was used 2nd at least one time during the course of the tournament (Chris G ECT). Wolverine would've tied She Hulk but JWong used him at 2nd spot in one major so he comes in second to She Hulk.
ANALYSIS OF THE MAJORS
(This analysis is made based on the facts presented from the major tournaments)
EXECUTION
Execution has been a huge factor in all the major MVC3 tournaments. It has for the most part dictated character selection and has also dictated character wins. A character who is easy to play, does big damage, has nice hit boxes and decent mix ups is a character who has placed in a tournament.
Judging from the characters who have won, it's safe to say that it's the "easy" half of the roster that has made it. The only few exceptions here are Iron Man who got one spot and Hulk who despite being easy to play with hasn't placed. The grand finals have also shied away from unorthodox characters and DLC characters.
It is also a major reason why characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker have placed high consistently where as others like Magneto and Dante have placed very little if at all even though most would agree there isn't much difference among these characters potential wise... except for level of execution. Certainly watching most of the these tournaments have shown that dropped combos are a reality and Magneto/Dante lead the pack in dropped combos. Dante out of the top 5 characters has by far the least appearances with all the rest having at least 3 or 4 to his one and only appearance at PowerUp. C Viper is no where to be seen despite being agreed upon as being a "top character".
Not only that but based upon selection of combos, players have gravitated towards mid level to day 1 combos for their characters. High level combos have rarely been used in grand finals play.
Execution is going to play a major role in EVO as well. Character selection is going to be based around "who can get me an easy win". Combos will be dropped by certain characters more often than other characters (Wolverine combos will almost never be dropped).
STYLE OF PLAY: DOMINANCE OF RUSHDOWN AND MIX UPS
The facts displayed by the majors yell out one very obvious detail about the game's meta: Rushdown is king and mix ups dictate the pace of a match. As stated in the fact sheet, the majors are dominated by Point characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker who are great at rushing down and even better at mix ups.
Very few zoning characters have placed high and those who are exclusively zoning characters are no where to be found (like Chris and Arthur). The most zoning style team in a grand final was Noel Brown's Dormammu/Sentinel/Doom team and it made Runner Up. Even those characters who by design are zoning characters are being played in a more rushdown style in the majors.
Even on a Phoenix team, mix ups and rushdown dominate. A Phoenix team which is more about mix ups/rushdown has been more successful (2 won) with Wesker/Wolverine than a Phoenix team that is more about zoning (Taskmaster or Dormmamu on a Phoenix team has placed no better than Runner Up).
This very rushdown style of play has even dictated assist selection. Top tier assists like Cold Star, Tatsu and Sentinel Drones have been more popular and more successful in grand finals than "get off me" assists like Gustaff Flame and Lariat. An assist that locksdown and allows for mix ups is a more valued assist in the game's current meta.
Mix ups on incoming characters has been a huge advancement in MVC3 technology and it has allowed Wolverine to become a very dominant character in the game over She Hulk. Other characters have developed similar strategies and it is now a must for any top tier team to have mix ups ready for incoming characters due to the resurgence of Phoenix play.
One other important fact to note down is that characters with very good air throw game have dominated the grand finals.
This pattern of rushdown, mix ups and assists that amplify such play will dominate at EVO... even on Phoenix teams.
X FACTOR USAGE
A sharp 180 degree turn in X factor usage has caused a major change in how players make teams and use them especially in a grand final. In the early days of the grand finals for MVC3, X factor usage was dominated by LVL3. In the latter half, EVEN AGAINST PHOENIX matches were overflowing with LVL1 X Factors.
This also goes hand in hand with the change of dominance of She Hulk from Wolverine. Once players learned to handle X factor'd characters better it became much more valuable to kill the first character and have a crack at the incoming character. With the way that most players built their team, the first character was usually their strongest (with their 2nd one being either their best or at least 2nd best) so burning XF early ended up being a game winning strategy.
The exception to the rule is of course on a Phoenix team where it is advantageous for both players to save their X Factors for the end unless Phoenix was snapped in and killed. Even this changed during CEO when Tokido showed the world how to REALLY play a Phoenix team... burning X Factor and meter judiciously for the character kills. It opened people's eyes and the meta-game was changed completely after that.
Going into EVO, only the most staunch Phoenix players will be saving their X Factors. It's only when a team gets BLOWN UP when they HAVE to use LVL3 will we see late X factors at EVO. When Wolverine is being played on point.... expect early X factor activations.
DHC GLITCHES
DHC glitches had their time but now they are a relic. With such high damage options, LVL3 hypers, early activations of X factor, Phoenix meta and team order headaches players have had little reason to use DHC glitches in grand finals.
This doesn't mean that we won't see them at EVO, but they aren't going to be as rampant. Killing characters have never been easier.
THE PHOENIX PROBLEM
She is a problem and she needs to be solved. The combination of Wolverine as point and Phoenix as anchor has created a new monstrosity for players to deal with. Early X factor usage on a Phoenix team has also created some problems that players are having difficulty dealing with. Tokido is the forerunner of this strategy and he has won every single major he has been in with it.
Phoenix used to be inconsequential early in the game's life. Hard to bring about and very low health meant that she was a gamble in tournament play. Slowly players found ways to put the odds in their favors. They broke it down into a science, where all they needed was one combo to guarantee a Dark Phoenix resurrection. The starting 1 meter, 2 and a half meter from just killing your own character and 1 and a half meter from a good combo confirmed Dark Phoenix if there was no snap back.
Technology was advanced to such a level that all you needed was one good point character and one good assist character and you were set. Wesker + Iron Man or Wolverine + Sentinel. The technology was advanced again when people realized that using X Factor in a combo yielded stupendous amounts of meter and killed off opponent's characters judiciously. Early X Factor usage guaranteed as 2 v 4 or sometimes even a 1 v 4 confrontation. Even a LVL3 X Factor could not surmount such odds.
Phoenix defines the current meta of MVC3. You either have a Phoenix team or you have a really solid anti-Phoenix team/strategy/technology up your sleeve to deal with the problem. The rise of good Phoenix gatekeepers like Wesker/Wolverine makes matters worse where they are pretty much free to do whatever they want and are generally exposed to less punishment because the other player is too busy worrying about Phoenix on deck.
It goes without saying but... expect to see Phoenix at EVO.
HEALTH MATTERS
One very under appreciated aspect of high level play or even grand final play is that the average health of a point character is much higher than people think it is. Certainly... among She Hulk/Wolverine/Wesker (I would add that the combined total of these characters wins equals ALL the majors in the USA!) their average health is over 1 million!
When coming up with the tiers list it was becoming very obvious that the low health characters were the dominant characters in this game. She Hulk was placed lower than Zero/Ammy, Wolverine lower than Magneto. However as the tournaments unfolded, it were the characters with the slightly higher health that dominated. A lot of the times when a Wesker faced off Magneto.. the Magneto player would get in the first hit do a very long fancy combo (building both his meter and the opponent) and would finish the combo right when Wesker is at the verge of dying. Then Wesker counter attacks with a LVL3 hyper because of all the meter that had been built up from the combo which is enough to kill low health Magneto.
The same applied to Wolverine and She Hulk. In grand finals this health differential ended up being a deciding factor in many matches. One could bring the counter examples of Phoenix and Amaterasu however to that you have to realize that Amaterasu is a very hard to hit character as it is and Phoenix has inflated health. At 5 bars she becomes one of the most difficult characters to kill out right as she not only has the game's ONLY combo breaker but a combination of Healing Field and death feathers makes the task sometimes insurmountable.
Another example is the drop in Sentinel usage. Sentinel made the bulk of teams in the early days of MVC3 but after the controversial health nerf players quickly dropped Sentinel. Those who stuck with Sentinel did so mostly because of the power of his assist and less as his potential as a point character. High level players are now lamenting the nerf and would settle for a middle ground (1.1 million compared to 900K and 1.3 million).
An interesting aspect of health is that while it is very important for the 1st character to have higher health than normal... the 2nd or 3rd character usually gets away with below average health. Examples being Ammy/Zero at 2nd spot and Akuma/Phoenix at 3rd spot. It goes to show that the extra health in front gives players enough time to gauge the opponent so that they can play accordingly with their more pixie style characters.
RESULTS vs POTENTIAL TIER LISTS
Something that is going to come immediately to a person's mind when they see these results is "do these results indicate a potential tier list for the game?" Certainly when you compare the results to the tier lists that people have put up, there are similarities.
However, neither results nor tier lists paint the full picture. This game is VERY EARLY in it's life cycle and as shown people are just sticking with the "easy" to use and win characters rather than investing the time in the "potential" characters. Tournament results factor in execution greatly but potential tier lists do not. It's why you will see Dante and C Viper place high on tier lists but not in tournaments. Issue of dropped combos is not something that factors in tier lists but it factors greatly in tournament play.
Lower tiered easy characters will place high in tournaments and higher tiered difficult characters will place low in tournaments. Stuff like this happens however if you look at both and make proper analysis of the current meta game then you can get an idea of what is happening and what will happen. Wolverine/She Hulk own the game because they are easy to use and effective at what they do. People can just watch a match or two of these characters, hop into training mode for a few hours, get the right assists and then go to a tournament and perform well. This does not apply to the high execution/high potential characters like C Viper where the match data is sparse. Anyone deciding to go and learn someone like Iron Man, Spider Man, Felicia etc does so at their own peril. They have to develop their own strategies, own teams and set ups... it's a difficult task to do all by yourself.
That is not to say that these characters might not place high in tournaments but it's not going to happen soon. The technology might be there but the execution and mindset isn't there and if those 2 factors aren't there then they won't be used and they won't win. This goes back to the days of vanilla SF4 where why should you use C Viper and Abel when you can pick Sagat and Ryu and fireball/DP all day?
Top level players are humans too, they make mistakes and they want the maximium profit for the minimum effort. They will invest in whatever they feel will get them the win. And certainly this has dictated character selection and results. Even in their minds, they might have a character or two which they believe if they spent like 2-3 months on just that character they can make it godlike. But there is only 1 month until EVO... what do YOU think they are going to do?
PLAYER CHOICES vs BANDWAGONING
This brings me to my next point of discussion which is player choice vs bandwagoning. What this means is that how does a player who comes up with his own team and set ups compare with another player who just simply "picks the cheap stuff of the day and abuses it".
Most people will think that bandwagoning gets you easy wins and they may be right to some extent but easy wins is all you are going to get. At the higher level, it's the players who have constructed their own team from scratch and stayed away from the bandwagon characters of the time who have won tournaments.
There are numerous examples that I can list to prove this but I will start from the beginning. In the beginning the bandwagon character was Sentinel. According to Marn and many other players, every match until EVO in MVC3 was going to boil down X/X/Sentinel vs X/X/Sentinel. He was the S tier character, he was the "best". Bandwagoners flocked to Sentinels where as players like JWong and Combofiend stuck to their guns. She Hulk/Amaterasu/Tron/Spencer/Taskmaster/Wolverine/Akuma/Magneto technology emerged and destroyed the Sentinel bandwagoners. JWong and Combofiend were the front runners in anti-Sentinel technology and their combined efforts saw through to there being NO SENTINELS in the grand finals at Final Round (when Sentinel was at his peak with 1.3 million health).
After that there was a surge of She Hulk and Akuma players with a dash of Wolverines, Trons etc. Magneto become a quick bandwagon character in the East coast thanks to his legacy from MVC2. The combination of Magneto/Sentinel became a winner in the East. However, players like ChrisG were going to innovate. He played Wesker/Ammy/Ryu and Ryu at that time was considered the WORST character in the game and "no reason to pick him over Akuma". Now, ChrisG is considered the BEST player in the East Coast coming fresh off his win at ECT3. He innovated the game, put out new technology with Ammy/Ryu/Wesker that shook up the MVC3 scene. He destroys Magneto/Sentinels, destroys Wolverine/Akuma and destroys Zero. And guess what... Ryu makes an important aspect of his team and something that many players have underestimated time and time again only to lose 2 of their characters to SHINKUU HADOUKEN.
Bandwagoning happened again, more Weskers/Ammy popped up. And then it happened... Justin Wong declared Wolverine#1 at Power Up and everyone lost their shit. People started picking Wolverine like it was going out of style. Tournaments flooded with Wolverine/Akuma as bandwagoners decided that XF LVL1 Wolverine + Akuma was GODLIKE. I will remind people that JWong was the ORIGINAL innovator of the Wolverine/Akuma combination and everyone who uses that combination after him is bandwagoning off of him.
Then came the Phoenix surge and she over passed Wolverine for quite a bit. Viscant/Clockwork/Filipino Champ advanced the technology for Phoenix to the point where she became the most feared character in the game. And then it happened at CEO... Tokido did the inevitable of putting the 3 characters that were the most feared of their times (Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix) and started using XF LVL1 with Wolverine + Meter on a PHOENIX TEAM. Ever since Tokido used this new configuration (and yes people this IS an innovation, at this time most people thought that Wolverine outside of Akuma was stupid) he has been undefeated in a major MVC3 tournament.
Bottom line: The trend for this game is that smart players who developed their own technology and innovation are the current top players in the game (JWong, Combofiend, Tokido, ChrisG, Viscant). The bandwagoners (who will not be listed) are on no one's radar despite making some waves here and there.
WOLVERINE.... THE BEST THERE IS?
One fine tournament morning, Justin Wong and crew declared Wolverine as the #1 character in the game. Now Wolverine was always considered a good character in this game and definitely tournament viable but an outright statement like this was "WTF". Mostly because everyone knew about Wolverine and knew that he didn't really have any tricks that were undiscovered up to the point. His game plan was straightforward and one dimensional plus he didn't have some of the tools that other characters had. He also needed an assist to really shine.
As tournaments passed on this statement became more and more a reality until the climax reached at CEO where the grand finals basically boiled down to Wolverine vs Wolverine. Players who sort of ignored Wolverine before now were raising their eye brows. Once people put it all together... it became crystal clear. The braindead easy yet high damaging bread and butter combo, the imperceptible mix ups, safe on all normals, godlike dive kick, deaths off of throws, priority on almost all special moves, a utility hypers that makes him even faster.
All of these attributes were maximized when combined with X factor LVL1 usage and mix ups on incoming character. Wolverine killed characters so quickly in LVL1 XF that he had enough time to mix up and kill the next character too. Very few other characters had A) Mix ups good enough to 50/50 an incoming character and kill them outright B) Had combos in XF that killed a character in as little time as Wolverine or as easy as Wolverine. The best part about Wolverine was that all of this came at an EASY LOW RISK cost. A few hours in training was all you needed and you could tear it up in tournaments. Word got around and people took it as the gospel truth.
Next element of Wolverine that people brought up was his reliant on assists most particularly those like Akuma's. It was a MYTH until then that Wolverine needed Akuma to be a killing machine. Pairing up Wolverine with Sentinel proved to be just a lethal enough combination to bring down teams as Tokido proved. Many assists allowed Wolverine to left/right character on incoming including Daigo's patented Jam Session/Berserker Slash cross up. Many assists also allowed Wolverine to insta-overhead follow up or OTG follow up which allowed for more versatile team constructs (like PRBalrog's Wolverine/Ammy/Tron which was when JWong declared Wolverine #1 after losing many sets to PR).
Another myth about Wolverine that was rectified was the belief that some characters could zone him out. Dormammu and his flame carpet was brought up but what good is his flame carpet against an invincible Berserker Slash? What good is Magneto's Disruptor against the Dive Kick? What good is Haggar's lariat/Tron Gusfaff against Wolverine when he can just cr.L underneath it? Only two characters who can safely engage Wolverine are Trish and Phoenix yet both of them succumb just like any other character when they are brought in as incoming characters after death/snapback.
Is Wolverine unbeatable? Surely not. Players like ChrisG have adapted to the Wolverine meta by ALSO burning X Factor early to kill Wolverine. It is a given now at tournament play that Wolverine as point character = X Factors will get burnt quickly. Space filling assists keep Wolverine honest and his Dive Kick can be punished accordingly. Unfortunately the characters with favorable match ups against Wolverine are also some of the more high execution ones. Zero is very favorable against Wolverine but one messed up input and he is dead. Wolverine has no wrong inputs, everything he has is good that's why he doesn't mess up.
We don't know if Wolverine is the best character in the game yet. Certainly with a character like Phoenix on the roster and up and coming top tiers like Dante it's hard to tell. However, these facts are hard to argue against:
*Wolverine has the highest kill/death ratio on average in the game.
*Wolverine has the highest "happy birthday" rate in the game.
*Wolverine has the highest Perfect rate in the game.
He is a menace and you can damn near bet your balls that he will be a menace at EVO. You shouldn't be surprised to see a Wolverine vs Wolverine grand final.
THE BEST TEAM IN MVC3?
I have discussed Wolverine and I have discussed Phoenix. We have all seen the terror of Wolverine and Phoenix on a team and the current status of the meta game. It is no surprise that a team of Wolverine + Phoenix is destroying in tournaments played by Tokido. He is undefeated in all majors ever since he used this configuration. It is safe to say that in the current meta game of MVC3, Wolverine and Phoenix on a team qualifies for a Best Team.
The problem however comes with coming up with a 2nd character for that team. That character needs to provide Wolverine with a means to left/right a character and control space. He already has the ability to OTG follow up with Phoenix's assist. Tokido smartly has placed Sentinel in that role. The problem with Sentinel is that if Wolverine dies, Sentinel can only space it out and get some blocked normals in to provide meter for Phoenix. He will rarely get the kills without meter and X Factor. When stranded like that, Sentinel's weaknesses become even more obvious. Despite it may appearing so... Tokido does NOT have the best team in MVC3.
The next candidate for the best team was another obvious choice... Akuma. However this team configuration presented the same problem. In fact, Akuma's Tatsu being able to OTG follow up was redundant with Phoenix's assist. It also didn't control space like Drones and Akuma is not that good without meter and X Factor. Another character choice shot down.
This next segment is going to cross the territory into theory fighter but I am going to cross the line anyway. After observing Daigo and his Wolverine/Dante play I was convinced as to what the best team in MVC3 right now is: Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix. There is only one area where Wolverine is weak at and that is the vertical axis, something which Dante's assist Jam Session excels at covering. It locks down opponents long enough for Wolverine mix ups. Best of all, Wolverine can do Berserker Slash against an airborne enemy and the cross up with allow for Jam Session to trap the opponent long enough for Wolverine to Dive kick and combo them. This set up is especially deadly on incoming characters. Daigo used the patented LVL1 X Factor and combined it with this set up to pretty much guarantee 2 characters dead.
If someone were to acquire this technology or if Daigo just put Phoenix on his team then it would be the best team in MVC3. Dante is a great solo character and can build meter from a far AND from fancy combos. His assist is great for Wolverine and he can clutch it out with X Factor if both Phoenix and Wolverine were to fall. He also has no unfavorable match ups and on paper he is one of the best there is.
Whether or not someone will use this team set up in EVO is a mystery. Most players will stick to their guns rather than experiment. However I am entitled to give my opinion on what I believe to be the best team in MVC3 is currently and I have to give the nod to Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix for EVO.
TOP 5 PLAYERS TO WATCH OUT FOR EVO
1) JUSTIN WONG
MR Marvel himself. Justin Wong IS Marvel and he has supplanted himself yet again as the #1 Marvel player in the world. With the most USA majors under his belt, he has the most solid chance at the EVO title. He is a legitimate innovator in the game and has developed tech for characters who are now considered to be top or near it. He plays multiple teams most notably his Wolverine/She Hulk teams and he likes to adjust to the matchup with different team set ups. He has stated that for EVO he might have a "stylish" team but he has been sticking with Wolverine for the most part so we don't really know how that's going to pan out. He has knowledge of a lot of characters so he isn't really going to be blind-sided by some unknown technology from a lesser used character. He also has the strongest anti-Phoenix tech out there as he was the one who the main promoter of "snapping that bitch in". Justin Wong isn't unbeatable and certainly his few loses have come at the hands of Phoenix players or just general very solid play. It is no secret that in terms of Marvel knowledge, experience, fundamentals and clutch factor... he is the best there is. He is the man to beat in MVC3 at EVO and he is going to make it hell for his opponents. Wolverine is now a mainstay in JWong's team but what partners he pairs him up with is going to be match up dependent so his matches will definitely be exciting to watch. JWong levels up like crazy with "prep time" and 1 week for him in the lab is months for others. Expect legit anti-Wolverine and anti-Phoenix technology from him at EVO and he wants the salty runback against Tokido. JWong's only real weakness is that he becomes much less of a threat when Wolverine dies however he knows this and he has leveled up with his secondary characters too (like Storm).
2) TOKIDO
Tokido is the one player that has the chance to strip away the American dominance of Marvel once and for all after 10+ years. In over a decade of Marvel hype, no non-American player has had such a chance at the title and Tokido is not shaking at all. He leveled up like crazy after his debut at Final Round and since then he has never looked back. With his new take on the Phoenix team by burning early X factors with Wolverine and meter if he has to, he has taken the world by storm in MVC3 (France, USA, Australia, Japan). He is the player who can take away Justin's crown, the player who can end the American reign and the player who is ahead of the curve as far as meta game is concerned. And the scary part is that he has at least 2 technology up his sleeve for EVO in case his current set up gets exposed. Expect him to stick with his patented Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix team for EVO and go to town. His team weakness is his Sentinel who gets stranded if Wolverine/Phoenix succumb to early deaths. Other than that, his team is both terribly front and back loaded with very little room for error from the opponent's side.
3) COMBOFIEND
Mr Bionic Arm himself. Combofiend has made quite a name for himself in MVC3 and looks as solid as ever. He is a massive innovator in the MVC3 scene putting out new technology for She Hulk/Taskmaster/Spencer almost every time we see him. He has perfected his team and no one on the planet can play this team better than him. All his characters are equally as effective and capable of TODing from numerous set ups. He is a solid contender to the crown and his comeback/clutch potential is immense. His Phoenix tech is a bit shaky and having no top tier assist backing him up makes him weak against Wolverine teams so that is going to be an area he needs to work on for EVO.
4) CHRIS G
Chris G aka Chris Godlike aka Geesus aka Genius. Call him whatever you want but this guy has STORMED the East Coast MVC3 scene. He has upsetted all the local Marvel legends with his new age style of play. THCs, slow down hypers. Shoryukens with Ryu... he will bust out with the craziest technology and you will confuse them for gimmicks. Chris G has turned almost every one of his gimmicks into deadly set ups that will mess up any team. His Ryu is solid and puts in more work than most people's Akuma. In fact most people mistake Ryu as a weakness on his team when Ryu makes a very fundamental part of the team (meter user, assist killer and being a solid assist himself). Chris's Wesker and Ammy are no joke either and he has secret Zero technology up his sleeve too. What makes Chris G stand tall as one of the best players is that he is smart and adapts to the situation. He is also one of the early adopters of early X factor usage and mix ups on incoming characters using slow downs. Plus he has massive clutch factor. Expect him to stick it out with his classical Ammy/Ryu/Wesker team although the team order is entirely match up dependant. Chris G's only weakness is that since he is from the East Coast he doesn't have a lot of match ups against great Wolverine/Phoenix players and that is a very important match up come EVO to learn. At CEO Wolverine/Phoenix ended up being a bit more than he could handle but he put up a great show.
5) VISCANT
Viscant goes WAY back (like MSH old) and brings immense experience to the table. He has been playing MVC3 since day 1 relentlessly and has been upgrading a lot. He has great knowledge of the inner mechanics of the game and his general macro/micro awareness in MVC3 has put him over a lot of the top players. He is a forerunner in Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix technology and you can bet your money hats that he will be sticking it out with this team. His weakness as he has mentioned it many times is Iron Man as once Wesker is out of the picture Iron Man is left defenseless. He has leveled up his Iron Man but it's still far below the character's potential (ie don't expect him to bust out fancy high level fly/unfly combos with Iron Man). The main threats on his team are Wesker and Phoenix. He appears to handle the Phoenix mirror match well enough so that's one thing going for him. He has mentioned that he might be experimenting with a Trish/Morrigan/Phoenix team for the Wolverine match up so we'll see if he uses that for EVO or not.
EAST COAST VS WEST COAST & USA VS THE WORLD
The captains for WC and EC have been decided and they are Justin Wong and NerdJosh respectively. I am going to be blunt and say this outright... East Coast is going to be FREE to West Coast. West Coast is just simply ahead of the meta game right now with their armies of Wolverines and Phoenixes. East Coast is generally the Magneto/Dante/Wesker land and although there are some very solid players from there you can just tell from my top 5 list that 3 players are from West Coast and one from East Coast. It's going to be a tough battle for EC going up against the likes of JWong, Combofiend, Viscant, Filipino Champ, Clockwork, Floe etc. EC has some killers no doubt but a lot of them have been inconsistent. The most solid of them ChrisG has to play anchor on that team as he is by far the best player from East Coast. It should be a good round of matches, but I expect WC to take it.
As far as USA vs the World concerns, this isn't America's game anymore. The vast majority of great players of MVC3 are housed in USA but there are legitimate killers from abroad most notably Tokido. He has burnt through the best of the best in the USA (JWong, NerdJosh, ChrisG) with relative ease and has put USA on official notice. Then of course there is the Mr Daigo "The BEAST" Umehara. While he had a lackluster debut in USA at NorCal Regionals, there has been some whispers about withholding tech/skill and just attending the tournament to gauge skill level and test the waters. There is also the possibility of Daigo running a Phoenix team. Whatever the case, Daigo is interested in MVC3 and he could be a potential dark horse at EVO. There are other international players of note in MVC3 (like Alioune) but Tokido is America's biggest threat to the title.
This brings me to my next point of discussion which is player choice vs bandwagoning. What this means is that how does a player who comes up with his own team and set ups compare with another player who just simply "picks the cheap stuff of the day and abuses it".
Most people will think that bandwagoning gets you easy wins and they may be right to some extent but easy wins is all you are going to get. At the higher level, it's the players who have constructed their own team from scratch and stayed away from the bandwagon characters of the time who have won tournaments.
There are numerous examples that I can list to prove this but I will start from the beginning. In the beginning the bandwagon character was Sentinel. According to Marn and many other players, every match until EVO in MVC3 was going to boil down X/X/Sentinel vs X/X/Sentinel. He was the S tier character, he was the "best". Bandwagoners flocked to Sentinels where as players like JWong and Combofiend stuck to their guns. She Hulk/Amaterasu/Tron/Spencer/Taskmaster/Wolverine/Akuma/Magneto technology emerged and destroyed the Sentinel bandwagoners. JWong and Combofiend were the front runners in anti-Sentinel technology and their combined efforts saw through to there being NO SENTINELS in the grand finals at Final Round (when Sentinel was at his peak with 1.3 million health).
After that there was a surge of She Hulk and Akuma players with a dash of Wolverines, Trons etc. Magneto become a quick bandwagon character in the East coast thanks to his legacy from MVC2. The combination of Magneto/Sentinel became a winner in the East. However, players like ChrisG were going to innovate. He played Wesker/Ammy/Ryu and Ryu at that time was considered the WORST character in the game and "no reason to pick him over Akuma". Now, ChrisG is considered the BEST player in the East Coast coming fresh off his win at ECT3. He innovated the game, put out new technology with Ammy/Ryu/Wesker that shook up the MVC3 scene. He destroys Magneto/Sentinels, destroys Wolverine/Akuma and destroys Zero. And guess what... Ryu makes an important aspect of his team and something that many players have underestimated time and time again only to lose 2 of their characters to SHINKUU HADOUKEN.
Bandwagoning happened again, more Weskers/Ammy popped up. And then it happened... Justin Wong declared Wolverine#1 at Power Up and everyone lost their shit. People started picking Wolverine like it was going out of style. Tournaments flooded with Wolverine/Akuma as bandwagoners decided that XF LVL1 Wolverine + Akuma was GODLIKE. I will remind people that JWong was the ORIGINAL innovator of the Wolverine/Akuma combination and everyone who uses that combination after him is bandwagoning off of him.
Then came the Phoenix surge and she over passed Wolverine for quite a bit. Viscant/Clockwork/Filipino Champ advanced the technology for Phoenix to the point where she became the most feared character in the game. And then it happened at CEO... Tokido did the inevitable of putting the 3 characters that were the most feared of their times (Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix) and started using XF LVL1 with Wolverine + Meter on a PHOENIX TEAM. Ever since Tokido used this new configuration (and yes people this IS an innovation, at this time most people thought that Wolverine outside of Akuma was stupid) he has been undefeated in a major MVC3 tournament.
Bottom line: The trend for this game is that smart players who developed their own technology and innovation are the current top players in the game (JWong, Combofiend, Tokido, ChrisG, Viscant). The bandwagoners (who will not be listed) are on no one's radar despite making some waves here and there.
WOLVERINE.... THE BEST THERE IS?
One fine tournament morning, Justin Wong and crew declared Wolverine as the #1 character in the game. Now Wolverine was always considered a good character in this game and definitely tournament viable but an outright statement like this was "WTF". Mostly because everyone knew about Wolverine and knew that he didn't really have any tricks that were undiscovered up to the point. His game plan was straightforward and one dimensional plus he didn't have some of the tools that other characters had. He also needed an assist to really shine.
As tournaments passed on this statement became more and more a reality until the climax reached at CEO where the grand finals basically boiled down to Wolverine vs Wolverine. Players who sort of ignored Wolverine before now were raising their eye brows. Once people put it all together... it became crystal clear. The braindead easy yet high damaging bread and butter combo, the imperceptible mix ups, safe on all normals, godlike dive kick, deaths off of throws, priority on almost all special moves, a utility hypers that makes him even faster.
All of these attributes were maximized when combined with X factor LVL1 usage and mix ups on incoming character. Wolverine killed characters so quickly in LVL1 XF that he had enough time to mix up and kill the next character too. Very few other characters had A) Mix ups good enough to 50/50 an incoming character and kill them outright B) Had combos in XF that killed a character in as little time as Wolverine or as easy as Wolverine. The best part about Wolverine was that all of this came at an EASY LOW RISK cost. A few hours in training was all you needed and you could tear it up in tournaments. Word got around and people took it as the gospel truth.
Next element of Wolverine that people brought up was his reliant on assists most particularly those like Akuma's. It was a MYTH until then that Wolverine needed Akuma to be a killing machine. Pairing up Wolverine with Sentinel proved to be just a lethal enough combination to bring down teams as Tokido proved. Many assists allowed Wolverine to left/right character on incoming including Daigo's patented Jam Session/Berserker Slash cross up. Many assists also allowed Wolverine to insta-overhead follow up or OTG follow up which allowed for more versatile team constructs (like PRBalrog's Wolverine/Ammy/Tron which was when JWong declared Wolverine #1 after losing many sets to PR).
Another myth about Wolverine that was rectified was the belief that some characters could zone him out. Dormammu and his flame carpet was brought up but what good is his flame carpet against an invincible Berserker Slash? What good is Magneto's Disruptor against the Dive Kick? What good is Haggar's lariat/Tron Gusfaff against Wolverine when he can just cr.L underneath it? Only two characters who can safely engage Wolverine are Trish and Phoenix yet both of them succumb just like any other character when they are brought in as incoming characters after death/snapback.
Is Wolverine unbeatable? Surely not. Players like ChrisG have adapted to the Wolverine meta by ALSO burning X Factor early to kill Wolverine. It is a given now at tournament play that Wolverine as point character = X Factors will get burnt quickly. Space filling assists keep Wolverine honest and his Dive Kick can be punished accordingly. Unfortunately the characters with favorable match ups against Wolverine are also some of the more high execution ones. Zero is very favorable against Wolverine but one messed up input and he is dead. Wolverine has no wrong inputs, everything he has is good that's why he doesn't mess up.
We don't know if Wolverine is the best character in the game yet. Certainly with a character like Phoenix on the roster and up and coming top tiers like Dante it's hard to tell. However, these facts are hard to argue against:
*Wolverine has the highest kill/death ratio on average in the game.
*Wolverine has the highest "happy birthday" rate in the game.
*Wolverine has the highest Perfect rate in the game.
He is a menace and you can damn near bet your balls that he will be a menace at EVO. You shouldn't be surprised to see a Wolverine vs Wolverine grand final.
THE BEST TEAM IN MVC3?
I have discussed Wolverine and I have discussed Phoenix. We have all seen the terror of Wolverine and Phoenix on a team and the current status of the meta game. It is no surprise that a team of Wolverine + Phoenix is destroying in tournaments played by Tokido. He is undefeated in all majors ever since he used this configuration. It is safe to say that in the current meta game of MVC3, Wolverine and Phoenix on a team qualifies for a Best Team.
The problem however comes with coming up with a 2nd character for that team. That character needs to provide Wolverine with a means to left/right a character and control space. He already has the ability to OTG follow up with Phoenix's assist. Tokido smartly has placed Sentinel in that role. The problem with Sentinel is that if Wolverine dies, Sentinel can only space it out and get some blocked normals in to provide meter for Phoenix. He will rarely get the kills without meter and X Factor. When stranded like that, Sentinel's weaknesses become even more obvious. Despite it may appearing so... Tokido does NOT have the best team in MVC3.
The next candidate for the best team was another obvious choice... Akuma. However this team configuration presented the same problem. In fact, Akuma's Tatsu being able to OTG follow up was redundant with Phoenix's assist. It also didn't control space like Drones and Akuma is not that good without meter and X Factor. Another character choice shot down.
This next segment is going to cross the territory into theory fighter but I am going to cross the line anyway. After observing Daigo and his Wolverine/Dante play I was convinced as to what the best team in MVC3 right now is: Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix. There is only one area where Wolverine is weak at and that is the vertical axis, something which Dante's assist Jam Session excels at covering. It locks down opponents long enough for Wolverine mix ups. Best of all, Wolverine can do Berserker Slash against an airborne enemy and the cross up with allow for Jam Session to trap the opponent long enough for Wolverine to Dive kick and combo them. This set up is especially deadly on incoming characters. Daigo used the patented LVL1 X Factor and combined it with this set up to pretty much guarantee 2 characters dead.
If someone were to acquire this technology or if Daigo just put Phoenix on his team then it would be the best team in MVC3. Dante is a great solo character and can build meter from a far AND from fancy combos. His assist is great for Wolverine and he can clutch it out with X Factor if both Phoenix and Wolverine were to fall. He also has no unfavorable match ups and on paper he is one of the best there is.
Whether or not someone will use this team set up in EVO is a mystery. Most players will stick to their guns rather than experiment. However I am entitled to give my opinion on what I believe to be the best team in MVC3 is currently and I have to give the nod to Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix for EVO.
TOP 5 PLAYERS TO WATCH OUT FOR EVO
1) JUSTIN WONG
MR Marvel himself. Justin Wong IS Marvel and he has supplanted himself yet again as the #1 Marvel player in the world. With the most USA majors under his belt, he has the most solid chance at the EVO title. He is a legitimate innovator in the game and has developed tech for characters who are now considered to be top or near it. He plays multiple teams most notably his Wolverine/She Hulk teams and he likes to adjust to the matchup with different team set ups. He has stated that for EVO he might have a "stylish" team but he has been sticking with Wolverine for the most part so we don't really know how that's going to pan out. He has knowledge of a lot of characters so he isn't really going to be blind-sided by some unknown technology from a lesser used character. He also has the strongest anti-Phoenix tech out there as he was the one who the main promoter of "snapping that bitch in". Justin Wong isn't unbeatable and certainly his few loses have come at the hands of Phoenix players or just general very solid play. It is no secret that in terms of Marvel knowledge, experience, fundamentals and clutch factor... he is the best there is. He is the man to beat in MVC3 at EVO and he is going to make it hell for his opponents. Wolverine is now a mainstay in JWong's team but what partners he pairs him up with is going to be match up dependent so his matches will definitely be exciting to watch. JWong levels up like crazy with "prep time" and 1 week for him in the lab is months for others. Expect legit anti-Wolverine and anti-Phoenix technology from him at EVO and he wants the salty runback against Tokido. JWong's only real weakness is that he becomes much less of a threat when Wolverine dies however he knows this and he has leveled up with his secondary characters too (like Storm).
2) TOKIDO
Tokido is the one player that has the chance to strip away the American dominance of Marvel once and for all after 10+ years. In over a decade of Marvel hype, no non-American player has had such a chance at the title and Tokido is not shaking at all. He leveled up like crazy after his debut at Final Round and since then he has never looked back. With his new take on the Phoenix team by burning early X factors with Wolverine and meter if he has to, he has taken the world by storm in MVC3 (France, USA, Australia, Japan). He is the player who can take away Justin's crown, the player who can end the American reign and the player who is ahead of the curve as far as meta game is concerned. And the scary part is that he has at least 2 technology up his sleeve for EVO in case his current set up gets exposed. Expect him to stick with his patented Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix team for EVO and go to town. His team weakness is his Sentinel who gets stranded if Wolverine/Phoenix succumb to early deaths. Other than that, his team is both terribly front and back loaded with very little room for error from the opponent's side.
3) COMBOFIEND
Mr Bionic Arm himself. Combofiend has made quite a name for himself in MVC3 and looks as solid as ever. He is a massive innovator in the MVC3 scene putting out new technology for She Hulk/Taskmaster/Spencer almost every time we see him. He has perfected his team and no one on the planet can play this team better than him. All his characters are equally as effective and capable of TODing from numerous set ups. He is a solid contender to the crown and his comeback/clutch potential is immense. His Phoenix tech is a bit shaky and having no top tier assist backing him up makes him weak against Wolverine teams so that is going to be an area he needs to work on for EVO.
4) CHRIS G
Chris G aka Chris Godlike aka Geesus aka Genius. Call him whatever you want but this guy has STORMED the East Coast MVC3 scene. He has upsetted all the local Marvel legends with his new age style of play. THCs, slow down hypers. Shoryukens with Ryu... he will bust out with the craziest technology and you will confuse them for gimmicks. Chris G has turned almost every one of his gimmicks into deadly set ups that will mess up any team. His Ryu is solid and puts in more work than most people's Akuma. In fact most people mistake Ryu as a weakness on his team when Ryu makes a very fundamental part of the team (meter user, assist killer and being a solid assist himself). Chris's Wesker and Ammy are no joke either and he has secret Zero technology up his sleeve too. What makes Chris G stand tall as one of the best players is that he is smart and adapts to the situation. He is also one of the early adopters of early X factor usage and mix ups on incoming characters using slow downs. Plus he has massive clutch factor. Expect him to stick it out with his classical Ammy/Ryu/Wesker team although the team order is entirely match up dependant. Chris G's only weakness is that since he is from the East Coast he doesn't have a lot of match ups against great Wolverine/Phoenix players and that is a very important match up come EVO to learn. At CEO Wolverine/Phoenix ended up being a bit more than he could handle but he put up a great show.
5) VISCANT
Viscant goes WAY back (like MSH old) and brings immense experience to the table. He has been playing MVC3 since day 1 relentlessly and has been upgrading a lot. He has great knowledge of the inner mechanics of the game and his general macro/micro awareness in MVC3 has put him over a lot of the top players. He is a forerunner in Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix technology and you can bet your money hats that he will be sticking it out with this team. His weakness as he has mentioned it many times is Iron Man as once Wesker is out of the picture Iron Man is left defenseless. He has leveled up his Iron Man but it's still far below the character's potential (ie don't expect him to bust out fancy high level fly/unfly combos with Iron Man). The main threats on his team are Wesker and Phoenix. He appears to handle the Phoenix mirror match well enough so that's one thing going for him. He has mentioned that he might be experimenting with a Trish/Morrigan/Phoenix team for the Wolverine match up so we'll see if he uses that for EVO or not.
EAST COAST VS WEST COAST & USA VS THE WORLD
The captains for WC and EC have been decided and they are Justin Wong and NerdJosh respectively. I am going to be blunt and say this outright... East Coast is going to be FREE to West Coast. West Coast is just simply ahead of the meta game right now with their armies of Wolverines and Phoenixes. East Coast is generally the Magneto/Dante/Wesker land and although there are some very solid players from there you can just tell from my top 5 list that 3 players are from West Coast and one from East Coast. It's going to be a tough battle for EC going up against the likes of JWong, Combofiend, Viscant, Filipino Champ, Clockwork, Floe etc. EC has some killers no doubt but a lot of them have been inconsistent. The most solid of them ChrisG has to play anchor on that team as he is by far the best player from East Coast. It should be a good round of matches, but I expect WC to take it.
As far as USA vs the World concerns, this isn't America's game anymore. The vast majority of great players of MVC3 are housed in USA but there are legitimate killers from abroad most notably Tokido. He has burnt through the best of the best in the USA (JWong, NerdJosh, ChrisG) with relative ease and has put USA on official notice. Then of course there is the Mr Daigo "The BEAST" Umehara. While he had a lackluster debut in USA at NorCal Regionals, there has been some whispers about withholding tech/skill and just attending the tournament to gauge skill level and test the waters. There is also the possibility of Daigo running a Phoenix team. Whatever the case, Daigo is interested in MVC3 and he could be a potential dark horse at EVO. There are other international players of note in MVC3 (like Alioune) but Tokido is America's biggest threat to the title.
Professor Beef
Banned
Amazing read, DB. God, I'm so fucking pumped for EVO.
oh god what a good post.
comments:
-I think Wolverine is the best character in the game. It's him and Phoenix in S tier by themselves. He just has a ridiculous amount of options, and if he doesn't open you up, an assist will. If you watch Justin vs. Tokido at CEO daily like I do you'd understand. He's fucked.
-The best team is Wolverine/x/Phoenix. x depends on the player, honestly. But it's clear at this point in the metagame that Wolverine and Phoenix are the top 2, and compliment eachother extremely well (Phoenix can extend Wolvie's combos, Wolvie builds meter mad easy). I would not be surprised at all if Daigo is rocking Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix at Evo. I'm sure he's training with Tokido right now, learning secret Japanese technology.
Viscant definitely makes it work with Wesker, though. He's going to be scary at Evo...
-I really think Justin is the favorite to win at Evo right now. Yes, all signs point to Tokido being the best on the planet right now, but I have a feeling that during this month of no majors, Justin is going to be in the lab working on some fucked up anti-Phoenix technology that will blow us all away at Evo. Read: perfect mixups with Wolverine, snaps galore (as opposed to being timid like at CEO), lots of quick Phoenix kills.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Tokido will fucking dominate with Phoenix. All I know for sure is Evo is going to be HYPE AS FUCK. I know they're doing EC vs. WC... any word on USA vs. World? Honestly, I think that would be more hype than EC vs. WC simply because, as you said, EC is free compared to WC at this point. USA vs. Tokido, Daigo, Mago, Canada's best and whoever else is coming would be hype.
comments:
-I think Wolverine is the best character in the game. It's him and Phoenix in S tier by themselves. He just has a ridiculous amount of options, and if he doesn't open you up, an assist will. If you watch Justin vs. Tokido at CEO daily like I do you'd understand. He's fucked.
-The best team is Wolverine/x/Phoenix. x depends on the player, honestly. But it's clear at this point in the metagame that Wolverine and Phoenix are the top 2, and compliment eachother extremely well (Phoenix can extend Wolvie's combos, Wolvie builds meter mad easy). I would not be surprised at all if Daigo is rocking Wolverine/Dante/Phoenix at Evo. I'm sure he's training with Tokido right now, learning secret Japanese technology.
Viscant definitely makes it work with Wesker, though. He's going to be scary at Evo...
-I really think Justin is the favorite to win at Evo right now. Yes, all signs point to Tokido being the best on the planet right now, but I have a feeling that during this month of no majors, Justin is going to be in the lab working on some fucked up anti-Phoenix technology that will blow us all away at Evo. Read: perfect mixups with Wolverine, snaps galore (as opposed to being timid like at CEO), lots of quick Phoenix kills.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Tokido will fucking dominate with Phoenix. All I know for sure is Evo is going to be HYPE AS FUCK. I know they're doing EC vs. WC... any word on USA vs. World? Honestly, I think that would be more hype than EC vs. WC simply because, as you said, EC is free compared to WC at this point. USA vs. Tokido, Daigo, Mago, Canada's best and whoever else is coming would be hype.
sf2fanatic
Member
haunts said:
I still remember how stunned the announcers were...Wong at his finest
These are the changes I would like to see:
Akuma
Tatsumaki Zankukyaku (as a special attack and as an assist) has full projectile invincibility during active frames.
Kongou Kokuretsu Zan added as a second Lvl.3 Hyper Combo. 400K damage, unblockable.
Amaterasu
Greater range on all throws.
110%/115%/120% speed for Lvl.1/2/3 X-Factor, respectively.
Dante
10% overall damage increase.
Can generate meter during Devil Trigger.
Dormammu
Stalker Flare has faster start-up.
Haggar
Double Lariat (as a special attack and as an assist) has a lower extended hitbox; less recovery.
Magneto
H, j.H cause less hit stun deterioration.
Hyper Grav causes more hit stun.
Gravity Squeeze damage increased to 450K.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
Phoenix
Vitality increased to 650K.
While opponent is inside Healing Field, Phoenix gains 10% of her normal attack damage, 4% of special attack damage and 2% of Hyper Combo damage as actual vitality. This applies to opponent assist characters within the Healing Field as well. Increased X-Factor damage does not cause increased healing, however.
Assist called within the Healing Field regenerate red vitality.
Phoenix Down added as a Lvl.3 Phoenix-only Hyper Combo. Long start-up, no invincibility, but can revive one dead ally to 25% vitality, full red vitality.
Phoenix Claw added as a Lvl.1 Dark Phoenix-only Hyper Combo. Ground-only, less damage than Phoenix Rage, but OTGs. Causes soft knockdown.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
Sentinel
Vitality increased to 1200K.
H, cr.H cause soft knockdown. Hyper Sentinel Force → H → Hyper Sentinel Force combos at certain distances.
j.C has armor.
Human Catapult has less recovery on whiff.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
She-Hulk
Senton Bomb → Aerial Exchange works with any Exchange direction.
Emerald Cannon causes a special wall bounce state, allowing for a second Cannon with full wall bounce.
Tron Bonne
β assist (Gustaff Fire) has less recovery.
Wesker
S is +0 on block.
All versions of Samurai Edge are cancellable.
df+H has less hit stun deterioration.
Phantom Dance pushes opponent towards the middle of the screen, more likely to cross-up.
Wolverine
Slide (df+M) causes more hit stun, knocks the opponent higher; can combo from it.
Berserk Charge has healing factor; can generate meter while active.
Zero
10% overall damage increase.
Akuma
Tatsumaki Zankukyaku (as a special attack and as an assist) has full projectile invincibility during active frames.
Kongou Kokuretsu Zan added as a second Lvl.3 Hyper Combo. 400K damage, unblockable.
Amaterasu
Greater range on all throws.
110%/115%/120% speed for Lvl.1/2/3 X-Factor, respectively.
Dante
10% overall damage increase.
Can generate meter during Devil Trigger.
Dormammu
Stalker Flare has faster start-up.
Haggar
Double Lariat (as a special attack and as an assist) has a lower extended hitbox; less recovery.
Magneto
H, j.H cause less hit stun deterioration.
Hyper Grav causes more hit stun.
Gravity Squeeze damage increased to 450K.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
Phoenix
Vitality increased to 650K.
While opponent is inside Healing Field, Phoenix gains 10% of her normal attack damage, 4% of special attack damage and 2% of Hyper Combo damage as actual vitality. This applies to opponent assist characters within the Healing Field as well. Increased X-Factor damage does not cause increased healing, however.
Assist called within the Healing Field regenerate red vitality.
Phoenix Down added as a Lvl.3 Phoenix-only Hyper Combo. Long start-up, no invincibility, but can revive one dead ally to 25% vitality, full red vitality.
Phoenix Claw added as a Lvl.1 Dark Phoenix-only Hyper Combo. Ground-only, less damage than Phoenix Rage, but OTGs. Causes soft knockdown.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
Sentinel
Vitality increased to 1200K.
H, cr.H cause soft knockdown. Hyper Sentinel Force → H → Hyper Sentinel Force combos at certain distances.
j.C has armor.
Human Catapult has less recovery on whiff.
Flight time increased to 5 seconds.
She-Hulk
Senton Bomb → Aerial Exchange works with any Exchange direction.
Emerald Cannon causes a special wall bounce state, allowing for a second Cannon with full wall bounce.
Tron Bonne
β assist (Gustaff Fire) has less recovery.
Wesker
S is +0 on block.
All versions of Samurai Edge are cancellable.
df+H has less hit stun deterioration.
Phantom Dance pushes opponent towards the middle of the screen, more likely to cross-up.
Wolverine
Slide (df+M) causes more hit stun, knocks the opponent higher; can combo from it.
Berserk Charge has healing factor; can generate meter while active.
Zero
10% overall damage increase.
Dahbomb, I would put Mago over Daigo in your list here is why.
I had the chance to attend Shadowloo Showdown and pretty much scoped out all of Mago's MVC3 matches. (most of which never got streamed)
I will go on record right now and state Mago has the best Dog and Sent in the world. I did not see him drop a complex Sent combo once this whole weekend. His sword stance Dog is a sight to behold and the most scary dog I have seen played in MVC3 to date.
Also another note. His Mag is a fucking beast to and he did not drop any Mag combos and had some sick DHC glitch setups.
So IMO he should go above Daigo as someone to watch out for come evo.
It was amazing to see how much he leveled up in a short amount of time from Revelations to Shadowloo Showdown.
This Evo is going to be fucking amazing. I just hope U.S keep marvel on lock. Let's Go Justin.
I had the chance to attend Shadowloo Showdown and pretty much scoped out all of Mago's MVC3 matches. (most of which never got streamed)
I will go on record right now and state Mago has the best Dog and Sent in the world. I did not see him drop a complex Sent combo once this whole weekend. His sword stance Dog is a sight to behold and the most scary dog I have seen played in MVC3 to date.
Also another note. His Mag is a fucking beast to and he did not drop any Mag combos and had some sick DHC glitch setups.
So IMO he should go above Daigo as someone to watch out for come evo.
It was amazing to see how much he leveled up in a short amount of time from Revelations to Shadowloo Showdown.
This Evo is going to be fucking amazing. I just hope U.S keep marvel on lock. Let's Go Justin.
Those changes are legitimate. And to think in the first revision, I might have gone a bit overboard. For example, Stalker Flare originally would not dissipate at all, even when Dormammu was hit, and Phoenix would auto-revive after 50 in-game seconds*. For the sake of balance, I had to tone some things down.
*
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Actually I just thought of that one now. It would still be amazing.
Ogrekiller
Member
zon said:
I want a reboot. Take out ALL the marvel characters and replace with Ultimate counterparts. Screw this 616 universe nonsense that has plagued Marvel games, use alternate universes for once.
Capcom characters replaced with chibi sprite versions. Fuck these ugly 3d models.
Mr Touchdown
Member
USD said:
I'd actually like to see this kind of approach when it comes to balancing. Don't make stuff weaker, get stronger. Would like to see something like these but even moreso for the lower tier of characters (Hsien-Ko, Arthur)
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