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OG Kush · Oct 21, 2011

TheFatOne said:
So far I have lost 25lbs just weight lifting, walking, and eating better. I would like to add more cardio to my workouts. I'm an out of shape fat guy so where should I start gaf? I started doing some tabata workouts using body weight exercises, but I'm not sure what else I should add.

Insanity DVD workout really worked for me. Can't recommend it enough. But I'm just beginning to get into this whole fitness thing, as in I started gym a 1 year ago and did the basics but didn't have knowledge, then in august I started insanity, finished it and now I'm starting p90x.
I would really like to see what the people who really know about fitness think of Insanity and p90x?

MjFrancis · Oct 21, 2011

I never tried P90X, just skimmed some of the videos. Tried one session of Insanity.

I'd never recommend either of them, but for increasing overall cardiovascular fitness, there are worse alternatives. Adherence seems to be strong, so that's a plus. Gets people off the couch. As a stepping stone to kick the sedentary lifestyle, it has it's place, despite any oversold claims or cheap used car salesman advertising.

Muscle confusion is Grade A Bullshit.

140.85 · Oct 21, 2011

Anyone else have bad wrists? I really gotta be careful every time I lift or I'll end up having to take a few weeks or more off.

MjFrancis · Oct 21, 2011

First elbows, now wrists?

Fitness |OT3| of Aching Bones and Creaky Joints

Are your wrists pained from anything in particular, or what do you mean by 'bad?'

140.85 · Oct 21, 2011

This guy (where it connects to the wrist) is sensitive for some reason. Like when I do bicep curls I need to keep my hands at a 45ish degree angle instead of completely facing up or it starts to burn.

My doctor said it was because I was doing too many pushups without those pushup things so my hand was at a 90 degree angle too much and hyper extending the tendons. Since I switched to doing pushups with those things it seems to help but I still have to be careful.

J Tourettes · Oct 21, 2011

Well I managed to do my workout ok but my pull ups hurt a bit. Even managed some extra stuff to complete a few quests on Fitocracy. Sixth place on the gaf leaderboard will be mine after my next workout.

MjFrancis · Oct 21, 2011

140.85 said:
This guy (where it connects to the wrist) is sensitive for some reason. Like when I do bicep curls I need to keep my hands at a 45ish degree angle instead of completely facing up or it starts to burn.

I had some similar symptoms once upon a time, I was increasing the volume of both push-ups and bicep curls (I don't even curl anymore). Same problem with the curls, I would get a pain when my hands were facing me but if they were facing one another ala hammer curls it was fine. Probably about 1 1/2 years ago. Lowered the volume on both dramatically and the problem subsided. Haven't had a pain in my wrists since.

From what I gather, fighting through tendon pain is a recipe for disaster. I've only had that instant and one where my elbows started to get sore and that's it save for the occasional plantar stress when I move barefoot for long periods of time. That's happened twice. Every time I back off immediately and things resolve themselves in short order, though.

kylej · Oct 21, 2011

140.85 said:
Anyone else have bad wrists? I really gotta be careful every time I lift or I'll end up having to take a few weeks or more off.

Yes. I'm taking a week or maybe a two week break starting today from lifting. I think mine are just overused (for lack of a better term). I've been pushing myself hard in the gym for 5 consecutive months with probably 3 or 4 off days total and I think they're kind of roasted. Hoping they can harden up quickly, I really don't want to lose muscle mass.

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

MjFrancis said:
Yup, though when my wife makes them she doesn't ground the oats, she just mixes them in. Actually I like the way she puts them together more than how I did it.

Have you tried making them yet?

Not yet, bookmarked it but didn't try it. I'll pick up some oats and powdered milk tonight. So she just uses regular uncooked oats? That makes this even easier than it already sounds.

Weird, I thought I replied to this earlier. Maybe i replied in another thread by mistake.

MjFrancis · Oct 21, 2011

I don't cook the oats but my wife bakes them for five minutes and doesn't ground them. So, it's basically a wash re: time. Either way, there's either minimal or no cooking involved, so it's the perfect single-guy food. I like to eat two or three squares post-workout.

The only additional item I would clarify is that I let it all set in a pan that you would bake cookies on. Is that just called a cookie sheet? It makes the bars thinner and easier to cut. They are sticky, gooey gobs of goodness, and thick bars are harder to separate.

For the new page:

MjFrancis said:
Protein food bar

4 cups ground oats
2 cups whey protein
1 cup powdered milk
1 1/2 teaspoon sea salt

mix ingredients and blend thoroughly with:

1 1/2 cups water

then blend with:

1/2 cup almond butter

Spread in a pan (use baking paper if you don't want it to stick) and throw it in the refrigerator. Baking the oats for five minutes or so is also optional. As is throwing in dried fruit, nuts or chocolate if you're feeling gluttonous. I've never done it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Next step is to eat that shit!

Approximately 236g of protein, 496g of carbs and 111g of fat for a grand total of 3,950 or so calories for the entire pan.

Unless you shop carelessly this should only cost $3.50 - $4.00 a pan. The equivalent store bought selection may have run you $20 or more. And you didn't even have to cook this, so it's not like it'll take you long. Ten, fifteen minutes tops before you jam it in the fridge. No excuse not to bulk on the cheap now, people.

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying! Otherwise I would have put them into casserole dishes and been struggling to pry them out!

What temp does she bake at?

balddemon · Oct 21, 2011

I just made those bars, they're in the fridge now. I forgot what size pan I put them in....will check when they're eaten

Based on what I used, mine will have 4160 calories and 268g protein. I didn't count the carbs.

Harry Potter · Oct 21, 2011

MjFrancis said:
I never tried P90X, just skimmed some of the videos. Tried one session of Insanity.

I'd never recommend either of them, but for increasing overall cardiovascular fitness, there are worse alternatives. Adherence seems to be strong, so that's a plus. Gets people off the couch. As a stepping stone to kick the sedentary lifestyle, it has it's place, despite any oversold claims or cheap used car salesman advertising.

Muscle confusion is Grade A Bullshit.

Curious, why wouldn't you recommend Insanity?

deadbeef · Oct 21, 2011

Candy corn is a great pre-workout food. Just had the best squat workout in weeks, and I attribute it to those little pumpkins.

MikeE21286 · Oct 21, 2011

140.85 said:
Anyone else have bad wrists? I really gotta be careful every time I lift or I'll end up having to take a few weeks or more off.

I did when I first started working out.

I would always aggravate them when doing triceps (skull-crushers mainly). Using the curling bar and just regular strengthening has helped it to no longer be an issue for me.

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

Harry Potter said:
Curious, why wouldn't you recommend Insanity?

One of the main ideas behind these products is "muscle confusion." 1. If you don't exercise regularly, any exercising will "confuse" your muscles. 2. If you do exercise regularly, regular progression that you can track simply will make make you stronger and improve conditioning. The key is tracking progress, which is difficult to do when you are constantly changing what you are doing.

For people who are already strong and fit and want to improve conditioning, this style of workout is probably ok. For law enforcement, military or mma, it's probably essential to train this way. For people not in shape already, I don't think this will build a solid strength foundation. Even for body weight exercises, especially when done for reps and time, having strong ligaments and joints adapted to heavy loads is important.

I see people I know don't exercise regularly talk about buying these dvds all the time. It is just another way people try to buy health. For the casual person it would be better to go jog or swim or some basic compound lifts. Simpler the better, especially if it is not your current lifestyle.

But ya, some people respond better to complexity, and I know some people who really get into this stuff and make it their lifestyle. But when something takes up that much time, effort and money, I think it's also easy to end up dropping it when you get too busy.

Brolic Gaoler · Oct 21, 2011

kylej said:
Yes. I'm taking a week or maybe a two week break starting today from lifting. I think mine are just overused (for lack of a better term). I've been pushing myself hard in the gym for 5 consecutive months with probably 3 or 4 off days total and I think they're kind of roasted. Hoping they can harden up quickly, I really don't want to lose muscle mass.

Wat?

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

deadbeef said:
Candy corn is a great pre-workout food. Just had the best squat workout in weeks, and I attribute it to those little pumpkins.

Great, I was going to pick some up anyway! What are you doing now that you're done with the Smolov?

Alienshogun said:
Wat?

I didn't even see that but if that's correct, ya, that would probably fuck up your elbows, whatever program it was.

balddemon · Oct 21, 2011

wow so this smolov program...i'm gonna try it as soon as i can find a gym with a squat rack....sounds challenging (and like it will help me jump higher)

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

balddemon said:
wow so this smolov program...i'm gonna try it as soon as i can find a gym with a squat rack....sounds challenging (and like it will help me jump higher)

I've only heard deadbeef complete it so you can ask him about it, but it's really an advanced program meant for people who have already gotten to a high level of squatting. Your body will need to be adapted to regular heavy squatting before doing it that often. I'd do something like Starting Strength or Stronglifts where you are squatting 3x a week until you gain all you can out of that before thinking about Smolov.

deadbeef · Oct 21, 2011

parrotbeak said:
Great, I was going to pick some up anyway! What are you doing now that you're done with the Smolov?

I rolled back to 5/3/1 and focused on shedding some excess pounds. I'm down from 230 lbs. at my heaviest to 210 lbs. I haven't really tested my max since Smolov, but my rep max calculation in 5/3/1 puts it at just under my actual max in Smolov.

Not bad at all really. In retrospect, looking back, I can't believe I did all that squatting.

If I had to do it again, I would probably just do the base mesocycle rather than the intense phase. Maybe I just burned out, but I didn't feel as strong with the intense phase, and I failed sets, whereas that never happened in the base mesocycle.

Maybe I'll do just the base mesocycle next year again.

FallingEdge · Oct 21, 2011

MjFrancis said:
I don't cook the oats but my wife bakes them for five minutes and doesn't ground them. So, it's basically a wash re: time. Either way, there's either minimal or no cooking involved, so it's the perfect single-guy food. I like to eat two or three squares post-workout.

The only additional item I would clarify is that I let it all set in a pan that you would bake cookies on. Is that just called a cookie sheet? It makes the bars thinner and easier to cut. They are sticky, gooey gobs of goodness, and thick bars are harder to separate.

For the new page:

So something like steel cut oats would work fine? And when you bake the oats, you mean you bake them after making the bars or just the oats separately? Something like 375 for 5 minutes?

OG Kush · Oct 21, 2011

parrotbeak said:
One of the main ideas behind these products is "muscle confusion." 1. If you don't exercise regularly, any exercising will "confuse" your muscles. 2. If you do exercise regularly, regular progression that you can track simply will make make you stronger and improve conditioning. The key is tracking progress, which is difficult to do when you are constantly changing what you are doing.

For people who are already strong and fit and want to improve conditioning, this style of workout is probably ok. For law enforcement, military or mma, it's probably essential to train this way. For people not in shape already, I don't think this will build a solid strength foundation. Even for body weight exercises, especially when done for reps and time, having strong ligaments and joints adapted to heavy loads is important.

I see people I know don't exercise regularly talk about buying these dvds all the time. It is just another way people try to buy health. For the casual person it would be better to go jog or swim or some basic compound lifts. Simpler the better, especially if it is not your current lifestyle.

But ya, some people respond better to complexity, and I know some people who really get into this stuff and make it their lifestyle. But when something takes up that much time, effort and money, I think it's also easy to end up dropping it when you get too busy.

I see what your saying in relation to P90x, but Insanity is all cardio and body-weight based workouts.

balddemon · Oct 21, 2011

parrotbeak said:
I've only heard deadbeef complete it so you can ask him about it, but it's really an advanced program meant for people who have already gotten to a high level of squatting. Your body will need to be adapted to regular heavy squatting before doing it that often. I'd do something like Starting Strength or Stronglifts where you are squatting 3x a week until you gain all you can out of that before thinking about Smolov.

tbh, i haven't had much opportunity to squat since hs. however, i've been doing 1-legged exercises for probably a month and a half, as well as a lot of intense stairwork. i'm not saying this guarantees i can complete it, but i want to try. like i said, just needa find a (cheap) gym with a squat rack.

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

OG Kush said:
I see what your saying in relation to P90x, but Insanity is all cardio and body-weight based workouts.

Ya, I don't know anything about Insanity, other than that some people I know who do P90x moved on to it or do a combination of both. If it works for you, that's great!

Does it have progress tracking built into the system?

Harry Potter · Oct 21, 2011

parrotbeak said:
One of the main ideas behind these products is "muscle confusion." 1. If you don't exercise regularly, any exercising will "confuse" your muscles. 2. If you do exercise regularly, regular progression that you can track simply will make make you stronger and improve conditioning. The key is tracking progress, which is difficult to do when you are constantly changing what you are doing.

For people who are already strong and fit and want to improve conditioning, this style of workout is probably ok. For law enforcement, military or mma, it's probably essential to train this way. For people not in shape already, I don't think this will build a solid strength foundation. Even for body weight exercises, especially when done for reps and time, having strong ligaments and joints adapted to heavy loads is important.

I see people I know don't exercise regularly talk about buying these dvds all the time. It is just another way people try to buy health. For the casual person it would be better to go jog or swim or some basic compound lifts. Simpler the better, especially if it is not your current lifestyle.

But ya, some people respond better to complexity, and I know some people who really get into this stuff and make it their lifestyle. But when something takes up that much time, effort and money, I think it's also easy to end up dropping it when you get too busy.

Insanity has nothing to do with muscle confusion.

Brolic Gaoler · Oct 21, 2011

OT: Any of you burly men getting BF3 this week?

Also, my day off has been glorious. I find out the war in Iraq is almost completely over, my body is feeling rested, and I'm about to celebrate with jamesons and Nachos.

Tomorrow, shoulders and deadlifts!

X-Frame · Oct 21, 2011

The Most Popular Cardio Workout you should Avoid like the Plague by John Alvino

(Cliff Notes: It's jogging)

I hate running, so this certainly doesn't affect me.

Alienshogun said:
OT: Any of you burly men getting BF3 this week?

I don't know man -- I played a couple games of the beta on PS3 and it was horrific. Felt like pre-alpha. I'd rather spend the money to buy the Gears 3 season pass.

I'll wait until the game comes out, see what GAF thinks and I can always get it later.

Sutton Dagger · Oct 21, 2011

parrotbeak said:
Ya, I don't know anything about Insanity, other than that some people I know who do P90x moved on to it or do a combination of both. If it works for you, that's great!

Does it have progress tracking built into the system?

I was also dubious about Insanity but I picked it specifically for it's cardio conditioning elements. Insanity isn't about building muscle, it's essentially HIIT, and let me tell you, as a relatively fit person (or so I thought) it bloody smashes you. I would not be doing Insanity on it's own though, I think it goes great with regular weight lifting activities.

I actually think I'm starting to get some results from it as well (just about to start my 4th week) obviously not from what the scales say but from appearance (I might post some pics when I'm done). There is tracking, though it isn't really a definitive indicator. There is a fitness test (a series of 8 exercises) that you do every 2 weeks that track your max reps for each.

parrotbeak · Oct 21, 2011

Harry Potter said:
Insanity has nothing to do with muscle confusion.

Sorry, I stand corrected. What's the concept behind it?

Fake Edit:

Sutton Dagger said:
I was also dubious about Insanity but I picked it specifically for it's cardio conditioning elements. Insanity isn't about building muscle, it's essentially HIIT, and let me tell you, as a relatively fit person (or so I thought) it bloody smashes you. I would not be doing Insanity on it's own though, I think it goes great with regular weight lifting activities.

Oh ok, thanks.

X-Frame said:
The Most Popular Cardio Workout you should Avoid like the Plague by John Alvino

(Cliff Notes: It's jogging)

I hate running, so this certainly doesn't affect me.

Same here, although I used jogging to get started again after slacking on exercise for a few years right after college. But I mainly used it to get some level of cardio back to do other things, and then I started doing sprint intervals instead. As long as sprinting uphill is still ok.

Harry Potter · Oct 21, 2011

Sutton Dagger said:
I was also dubious about Insanity but I picked it specifically for it's cardio conditioning elements. Insanity isn't about building muscle, it's essentially HIIT, and let me tell you, as a relatively fit person (or so I thought) it bloody smashes you. I would not be doing Insanity on it's own though, I think it goes great with regular weight lifting activities.

I actually think I'm starting to get some results from it as well (just about to start my 4th week) obviously not from what the scales say but from appearance (I might post some pics when I'm done). There is tracking, though it isn't really a definitive indicator. There is a fitness test (a series of 8 exercises) that you do every 2 weeks that track your max reps for each.

Ya it's legit. I know people are instantly put off by these DVD programs but it's the real deal.

Jason's Ultimatum · Oct 21, 2011

I'd rather swim than run.

MoonsaultSlayer · Oct 21, 2011

Hello fitness buffs. I need your help.

I'm a 29 year old male, 6'1" and 235 lbs. I don't look fat but it has filled out my gut and face quite a bit compared to my scrawny, teenager self.

My issue is that I want to gain mass in my arms while losing weight in my chest, face and midsection. I don't want to gain mass everywhere.

So what would a proper workout and diet regimen be? Also scheduling. I never know how soon I should eat before or after sessions.

Gym is not an option but I do have an eliptical machine and bowflex at home. I've been terribly lazy and never even used the bowflex. But I want/need to get in shape.

MrToughPants · Oct 21, 2011

Alienshogun said:
OT: Any of you burly men getting BF3 this week?

Also, my day off has been glorious. I find out the war in Iraq is almost completely over, my body is feeling rested, and I'm about to celebrate with jamesons and Nachos.

Tomorrow, shoulders and deadlifts!

Probably gonna preorder it this weekend.

But I won't get to play until next Firday since i'm going to Cirque du Soleil.

On topic:

I get some serious shoulder joint pains sometimes. I think the cause is from sleeping on my side where most of my weight will shift onto my shoulder. Yesterday I did 100x various pull ups in about 30 mins and later that day some heavier cgbp and my right shoulder is just shit today.

Also my pelvis is sore again so I dunno how my squats will go tonight, I put em off for the week because of it.

MjFrancis · Oct 22, 2011

parrotbeak said:
Oh ok, thanks for clarifying! Otherwise I would have put them into casserole dishes and been struggling to pry them out!

What temp does she bake at?

I'll have to ask, but I imagine FallingEdge's suggestion may do the trick. Might not, though, so I'll get around to asking what she does with them.

FallingEdge said:
So something like steel cut oats would work fine? And when you bake the oats, you mean you bake them after making the bars or just the oats separately? Something like 375 for 5 minutes?

The oats are baked separately before everything is mixed together. Everything else would remain uncooked.

parrotbeak · Oct 22, 2011

MjFrancis said:
I'll have to ask, but I imagine FallingEdge's suggestion may do the trick. Might not, though, so I'll get around to asking what she does with them.

The oats are baked separately before everything is mixed together. Everything else would remain uncooked.

Ok, thanks. I'll just grind them up if you don't get around to it before I make them.

kylej · Oct 22, 2011

Alienshogun said:
Wat?

Off days as in not going to the gym when I normally go (3x a week). I don't hit the gym every day.

Brolic Gaoler · Oct 22, 2011

kylej said:
Off days as in not going to the gym when I normally go (3x a week). I don't hit the gym every day.

Ok, that makes more sense.

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy · Oct 22, 2011

140.85 said:
Anyone else have bad wrists? I really gotta be careful every time I lift or I'll end up having to take a few weeks or more off.

Get some gloves with good wrist straps. Used to get some pain but not anymore.

Brolic Gaoler · Oct 22, 2011

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Get some gloves with good wrist straps. Used to get some pain but not anymore.

I actually stopped using those so my wrists would get stronger.

Draft · Oct 22, 2011

MoonsaultSlayer said:
Hello fitness buffs. I need your help.

I'm a 29 year old male, 6'1" and 235 lbs. I don't look fat but it has filled out my gut and face quite a bit compared to my scrawny, teenager self.

My issue is that I want to gain mass in my arms while losing weight in my chest, face and midsection. I don't want to gain mass everywhere.

So what would a proper workout and diet regimen be? Also scheduling. I never know how soon I should eat before or after sessions.

Gym is not an option but I do have an eliptical machine and bowflex at home. I've been terribly lazy and never even used the bowflex. But I want/need to get in shape.

Make the gym an option.

Put the Bowflex on your back and run hills.

Do 100 pull ups every other day.

MoonsaultSlayer · Oct 22, 2011

Draft said:
Make the gym an option.

Put the Bowflex on your back and run hills.

Do 100 pull ups every other day.

Work and child make gym going a not an option... Plus I'm an introvert. Maybe that'll change once I'm in shape.

Bowflex is shit then?

Pull ups are done with fingers away from or towards my face? Or either one is okay for different muscle groups?

kylej · Oct 22, 2011

MoonsaultSlayer said:
Work and child make gym going a not an option... Plus I'm an introvert. Maybe that'll change once I'm in shape.

Bowflex is shit then?

Pull ups are done with fingers away from or towards my face? Or either one is okay for different muscle groups?

Nobody gives a shit what you look like in the gym. The "I don't want people to look at me" thing kept me out of the gym for way, way longer than it should have. You can kick your own ass in 45 minutes after work, it doesn't take much time. You're making excuses.

If you want to stay at home, sell the Bowflex and buy a used set of weights off Craigslist.

Pullups for beginners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRznU6pzez0 Scooby can be a little weird but I like this video.

smurfx · Oct 22, 2011

Alienshogun said:
I actually stopped using those so my wrists would get stronger.

i use gloves because my hands get torn up if i don't. they are already ugly from work but if i add weight lifting to it then they become hideous.

Brolic Gaoler · Oct 22, 2011

smurfx said:
i use gloves because my hands get torn up if i don't. they are already ugly from work but if i add weight lifting to it then they become hideous.

BE A MAN!

your hands get used to it

reilo · Oct 22, 2011

smurfx said:
i use gloves because my hands get torn up if i don't. they are already ugly from work but if i add weight lifting to it then they become hideous.

Ok Miss Lady Fingers.

Use lotion afterwards to help your hands heal. Use chalk for help with your grip.

IceCold · Oct 22, 2011

X-Frame said:
The Most Popular Cardio Workout you should Avoid like the Plague by John Alvino

(Cliff Notes: It's jogging)

I hate running, so this certainly doesn't affect me.

I don't know man -- I played a couple games of the beta on PS3 and it was horrific. Felt like pre-alpha. I'd rather spend the money to buy the Gears 3 season pass.

I'll wait until the game comes out, see what GAF thinks and I can always get it later.

I disagree with this. I don't enjoy jogging but I try to do it for 15-20 mins, 1-3 times a week. Usually I run around 2.4 miles during those 20 mins. It helps warm my muscles (makes stretching easier after: less injuries), makes my heart pump, and improves my cardio. I could see it causing problems if you are a pro marathon runner though. In the end, like most things in life, it's all about moderation.

OG Kush · Oct 22, 2011

Yeah please stop caring about what other people think of you at the gym. Everyones there to get healthy and fit. You need to stop with that bullshit thinking and just do it or shit aint ever going to change in your life.

Petrie · Oct 22, 2011

MoonsaultSlayer said:
Work and child make gym going a not an option... Plus I'm an introvert. Maybe that'll change once I'm in shape.

Bowflex is shit then?

Pull ups are done with fingers away from or towards my face? Or either one is okay for different muscle groups?

You should be making time for the gym so you'll have more years to be there for your child.

Seriously, getting in shape takes a certain commitment.

Foxy Fox 39 · Oct 22, 2011

Crap. I just started jogging. Ah well. I was doing 3 miles a run. I do have a workout bike. Maybe I'll use that instead?

Also, whats the best way to get Bruce lee ripped?

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