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KingK · Dec 16, 2011

I'll try playing some more of the game during Christmas break, but what little I have played post-patch (about 8 hours), has been a relatively smooth experience. I only got a framerate drop into the single digits one time after playing for 6 hours straight (on my character who has 90+ hours). Still, it's unacceptable and Bethesda has been pulling some bullshit.

It's especially damning when you compare their response to this with Naughty Dog's response to the aiming complaints.

StoppedInTracks · Dec 16, 2011

YoungHav said:
Bethesda should make up for this by making Fallout 4 a PS3 exclusive.

Things Bethesda should do in order:

- apologise to PS3 buyers
- release fix
- offer first DLC for free to PS3 buyers

That's it. 3 easy steps and image is restored.

SolidSnakex · Dec 16, 2011

StoppedInTracks said:
Things Bethesda should do in order:

- apologise to PS3 buyers
- release fix
- offer first DLC for free to PS3 buyers

That's it. 3 easy steps and image is restored.

How would any of that help those without an internet connection? This is why it's important to not rely on patches to finish games.

RedNumberFive · Dec 16, 2011

StoppedInTracks said:
Things Bethesda should do in order:

- apologise to PS3 buyers
- release fix
- offer first DLC for free to PS3 buyers

That's it. 3 easy steps and image is restored.

I would also add that they should pull all PS3 copies from the shelves until the problems are fixed.

StoppedInTracks · Dec 16, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
How would any of that help those without an internet connection? This is why it's important to not rely on patches to finish games.

Can't help that. Online is free on the PS3 so let's hope majority of PS3 users are constantly connected. If not then they are out of luck with a broken product on their hands.

SolidSnakex · Dec 16, 2011

StoppedInTracks said:
Can't help that. Online is free on the PS3 so let's hope majority of PS3 users are constantly connected. If not then they are out of luck with a broken product on their hands.

Which is just one of the reasons that doing what you suggested wouldn't restore their image. Their image should actually never be restored after this. They knew that this game was broken on the PS3 and they still sold it. They also lied to PS3 owners by telling them that it was running great and talking about how it was running at parity in terms of framerate with the 360 version. An apology doesn't cut it.

funkystudent · Dec 16, 2011

so has bethesda (studio of the year!!!!) said anything this week about a ETA on a fix?

seems like a award winning studio like that would give a shit about there customers and at least update them on there progress.

at least you guys are keeping this thread active. with the Skyrim OT in community this thread probably grabs a bit more attention from people casually lurking GAF and want to know whats up with skyrim.

Maybe that bethesda community manager who posts here will come in soon and update us all.

GenericUser · Dec 16, 2011

funkystudent said:
so has bethesda (studio of the year!!!!) said anything this week about a ETA on a fix?

seems like a award winning studio like that would give a shit about there customers and at least update them on there progress.

not gonna defend bethesda here, but coming up with any kind of fix for this problem takes time. I myself am a victim of the ps3 version but i do not think they will come up with a patch till mid january.

frequency · Dec 16, 2011

funkystudent said:
so has bethesda (studio of the year!!!!) said anything this week about a ETA on a fix?

seems like a award winning studio like that would give a shit about there customers and at least update them on there progress.

Nope. All we know is that if anything is going to happen, it'll be in the new year.
They said after this last patch to fix the resistances and stuff, they're going on break or something.

They're busy celebrating all those awards obviously.

Omegasquash · Dec 16, 2011

I mean...it looks like they straight up lied to PS3 users, here.

SolidSnakex · Dec 16, 2011

sponk said:
not gonna defend bethesda here, but coming up with any kind of fix for this problem takes time.

They've known about this issue for at least 3 years.

RedNumberFive · Dec 16, 2011

Omegasquash said:
I mean...it looks like they straight up lied to PS3 users, here.

"looks like"

They DID straight up lie to PS3 owners, and I find it disgusting how they are still selling this title to customers, knowing that it's broken.

Omegasquash · Dec 16, 2011

RedNumberFive said:
"looks like"

They DID straight up lie to PS3 owners, and I find it disgusting how they are still selling this title to customers, knowing that it's broken.

It does amaze me sometimes as to what people can get away with. It's like...it WORKS, but they don't guarantee 100% so they're off the chain. That said, this should be a serious red flag to anyone that thinks about buying a PS3 version of their product.

As in, don't do it. Unless explicitly told by a reliable source that it runs like you'd expect it to.

GenericUser · Dec 16, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
They've known about this issue for at least 3 years.

You can't say for sure and: if its a problem related to the savefile size, I do not remember oblivion or the 2 fallouts for having such huge savefiles. skyrim probably stores a lot more stuff in savefile/ram then the predecessors did.

again, i am very pissed that my ps3 copy does not run well, but it doesnt help anybody to argue about lawsuits or bitch about how "stupid" bethesda is.

Thats all I want to say. There is a problem, bethsoft acknowledged that, we have to solve it.

Evolved1 · Dec 16, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
They've known about this issue for at least 3 years.

Which makes it more likely there isn't a fix at all...

Omegasquash said:
It does amaze me sometimes as to what people can get away with. It's like...it WORKS, but they don't guarantee 100% so they're off the chain. That said, this should be a serious red flag to anyone that thinks about buying a PS3 version of their product.

As in, don't do it. Unless explicitly told by a reliable source that it runs like you'd expect it to.

I'm trying to find a way to read this post that doesn't make it sound so retarded.... having trouble though.

sponk said:
You can't say for sure and: if its a problem related to the savefile size, I do not remember oblivion or the 2 fallouts for having such huge savefiles. skyrim probably stores a lot more stuff in savefile/ram then the predecessors did.

again, i am very pissed that my ps3 copy does not run well, but it doesnt help anybody to argue about lawsuits or bitch about how "stupid" bethesda is.

Thats all I want to say. There is a problem, bethsoft acknowledged that, we have to solve it.

You need to do a little more research...

Dragon · Dec 16, 2011

sponk said:
You can't say for sure and: if its a problem related to the savefile size, I do not remember oblivion or the 2 fallouts for having such huge savefiles. skyrim probably stores a lot more stuff in savefile/ram then the predecessors did.

again, i am very pissed that my ps3 copy does not run well, but it doesnt help anybody to argue about lawsuits or bitch about how "stupid" bethesda is.

Thats all I want to say. There is a problem, bethsoft acknowledged that, we have to solve it.

Failout: New Vegas has the same bug man. The same friggin bug. They explained it. As people mess around with the world the way they store a saved game has to go up.

And yes I know Obsidian did that game.

GenericUser · Dec 16, 2011

Dragon said:
Failout: New Vegas has the same bug man. The same friggin bug. They explained it. As people mess around with the world the way they store a saved game has to go up.

And yes I know Obsidian did that game.

well...

s*it

no, I really do believe that they will come up with a solution. The problem is just massive. I mean, even they do acknowledge the existance of the problem in their official statements and thats says a lot these days.

Anteater · Dec 17, 2011

oh hey ign has a follow up on the story

shocking news
the framerate really does drop!

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1214971p1.html

Thanks for the extensive testing ign!

Uno Venova · Dec 17, 2011

AT least they're still talkin bout it.

TemplaerDude · Dec 17, 2011

Anteater said:
oh hey ign has a follow up on the story

shocking news
the framerate really does drop!

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1214971p1.html

Thanks for the extensive testing ign!

The best part of that is if you click through to their "wiki", the "Playstation 3 issues" page is under the "Secrets" tab. Awesome.

frequency · Dec 17, 2011

upJTboogie said:
AT least they're still talkin bout it.

And still prominently displaying the 9.5 on the same page.

Uno Venova · Dec 17, 2011

frequency said:
And still prominently displaying the 9.5 on the same page.

I would never expect a site like IGN to do something like taking the score down, they would get points in my book but I think they care more about what the pubs think.

Demon Ice · Dec 17, 2011

Takuan said:
I don't think any PS3 owner who has invested heavy time into the game is willing to accept that their game is broken. They were fooled by Bethesda's promises and fooled by big gaming websites who continue to lie to them. It isn't common knowledge for Joe Gamer that Fallout 3 w/DLC and New Vegas were completely borked on the triple. All Joe Gamer sees is a strongly-marketed,well-hyped game getting 9s and 10s from every relevant (in his mind) site and publication and thinks he's in the clear picking up a PS3 copy.

Gamesradar gave the game a 10 for all platforms, and I'm presuming the basis of this score is the 360 review copy. They write up this fluff piece denouncing Bethesda and blaming gamers for being so foolish to give Bethesda their money, all the while giving the PS3 version of the game a shining endorsement. That's unacceptable. That's a fucking joke.

I just checked the Gamesradar review. Not only does the game still have a perfect 10 score, in the score breakdown, one of the listed positives is "Surprinsgly polished". In the negatives category, we have "Still has a few annoying bugs."

Here's the comment I posted in response to the earlier linked article. (this one: http://www.gamesradar.com/high-hors...cusable-and-may-be-your-fault/#comment-376787)

I love how the opener of this paper refers to the PS3 version (correctly) as being broken as all hell, but in Gamesradar's VERY OWN REVIEW, you downplay the problem, barely mention it, AND STILL GIVE THE GAME A VERY HIGH SCORE.

Do you really want to blame the consumer for buying Bethesda products when you yourself are guilty of misleading the consumer into thinking they are buying a well-made and worthy product? This is very two faced of you.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you are at least acknowledging that there is an issue with the PS3 version of Skyrim. But when you say things like "Broken PS3 Skyrim was inevitable, is inexcusable, and is *probably your fault*" while simultaneously giving Skyrim a high score on THIS SAME website...I'm a little confused

Treemonkeys · Dec 17, 2011

sponk said:
well...

s*it

no, I really do believe that they will come up with a solution. The problem is just massive. I mean, even they do acknowledge the existance of the problem in their official statements and thats says a lot these days.

If a fix was even possible, why didn't they have it between Fallout 3 and now? Why did they say they fixed it long ago lol?

I don't think they are able to fix it.

Nizz · Dec 17, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
How would any of that help those without an internet connection? This is why it's important to not rely on patches to finish games.

Great point. Just thinking about all those people who bought the game who don't have the console connected online in any way. In a perfect world, devs/publishers would release games when they're as polished as they could be in a reasonable time frame.

SolidSnakex · Dec 17, 2011

Anteater said:
oh hey ign has a follow up on the story

shocking news
the framerate really does drop!

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1214971p1.html

Thanks for the extensive testing ign!

They say that they don't know how widespread the issues are, but they held a poll on their site in which the majority of PS3 users noted that they were having major issues with the game. Those ranged from severe slowdown to the game constantly freezing. It seems like you've lucked out if you managed to buy a copy that doesn't have problems.

rohlfinator · Dec 17, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
How would any of that help those without an internet connection? This is why it's important to not rely on patches to finish games.

They really should offer to replace the disc with a fixed version when (if?) the issue is solved. I believe that has been done with a couple of Wii games, and those were much more minor problems IIRC.

RoadHazard · Dec 17, 2011

rohlfinator said:
They really should offer to replace the disc with a fixed version when (if?) the issue is solved. I believe that has been done with a couple of Wii games, and those were much more minor problems IIRC.

Yeah, but that's because Wii games can't be patched (unless they're explicitly programmed to support that, which rarely happens).

Nintendo isn't replacing copies of Skyward Sword because of the game-breaking bug which prevents you from finishing the game. Instead, they're asking you to send in an SD card with the save file on it (or your entire Wii if you don't have an SD card to transfer the save to) so they can fix it for you.

RPGCrazied · Dec 17, 2011

So, the 1.03 patch today didn't do anything at ALL?

SolidSnakex · Dec 17, 2011

RoadHazard said:
Nintendo isn't replacing copies of Skyward Sword because of the game-breaking bug which prevents you from finishing the game. Instead, they're asking you to send in an SD card with the save file on it (or your entire Wii if you don't have an SD card to transfer the save to) so they can fix it for you.

The good news for SS is that you can easily avoid that issue.

RPGCrazied said:
So, the 1.03 patch today didn't do anything at ALL?

That patch was just to fix some of the shit that the last patch broke.

rohlfinator · Dec 17, 2011

RoadHazard said:
Yeah, but that's because Wii games can't be patched (unless they're explicitly programmed to support that, which rarely happens).

Nintendo isn't replacing copies of Skyward Sword because of the game-breaking bug which prevents you from finishing the game. Instead, they're asking you to send in an SD card with the save file on it (or your entire Wii if you don't have an SD card to transfer the save to) so they can fix it for you.

They replaced the bugged Twilight Princess discs though, didn't they? My memory is fuzzy on that one.

If Skyward Sword can be fixed in the save file, I don't have a problem with that either -- as long as they address the issue in some way. But the problems with Skyrim are clearly deeper than that, and Bethesda really should be responsible for fixing the issue even for the players who don't have a network connection. Maybe they can just send out discs with the patch, if that's supported by the PS3 OS.

tok · Dec 17, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
How would any of that help those without an internet connection? This is why it's important to not rely on patches to finish games.

Is this sort of a red herring? Could you even install the game on a PS3 that hasn't been on the internet and isn't up the newest firmware, or at least a new-ish firmware?

I could only venture a guess at the percentage of people who own current gen consoles and have absolutely no internet access, and that guess would be in the low single digits.

WrenchNinja · Dec 17, 2011

tok said:
Is this sort of a red herring? Could you even install the game on a PS3 that hasn't been on the internet and isn't up the newest firmware, or at least a new-ish firmware?

I could only venture a guess at the percentage of people who own current gen consoles and have absolutely no internet access, and that guess would be in the low single digits.

Games come with firmware updates for unconnected consoles.

3rdamention · Dec 17, 2011

frequency said:
And still prominently displaying the 9.5 on the same page.

That is one of my biggest issues with IGN and this story. IGN is trying to act like they are at the forefront, leading and breaking this story. However, on every report they make, the game has a big fat 9.5 next to it.

They can keep the PC and 360 grades, but they need to remove that PS3 grade and say they will re-review or re-assess the game at a later date. There are too many problems and issues that break the game and make it unplayable for it to have ANY review score at this point.

genjiZERO · Dec 17, 2011

Dragon said:
Failout: New Vegas has the same bug man. The same friggin bug. They explained it. As people mess around with the world the way they store a saved game has to go up.

And yes I know Obsidian did that game.

What I don't get is if they knew about this why didn't they just tweak the programming so that non-critical objects reset to their original places. I really don't think it would have changed the immersiveness at all. Maybe this isn't something that can be easily done from a programming point of view? I don't know. But it sounds like it should have been the answer from the beginning.

Benjamin1981 · Dec 17, 2011

On the newest Weekend Confirmed they talk about the situation around the PS3 version. And i must say i'm not in the slightest suprised that this story is not getting any hype in the press. Garnett doesn't care about the technical side and for Jeff it's not that big of a deal because his experience on Xbox was fine and he was not effected. These guys don't feel any responsibility at all to inform their readers/listeners.

SolidSnakex · Dec 17, 2011

Benjamin1981 said:
Garnett doesn't care about the technical side and for Jeff it's not that big of a deal because his experience on Xbox was fine and he was not effected.

Someone brought that point up earlier in this thread as a possibility for why it hasn't receive more coverage. It would certainly explain how major journalists actually voted for Bethesda as Studio of the Year.

Benjamin1981 · Dec 17, 2011

Yeah but that should not be an excuse. Any real journalist would jump on this and give Bethesda hell for it. But all these guys don't give a shit and won't stand up for their readers.

NinjaFridge · Dec 17, 2011

Benjamin1981 said:
Yeah but that should not be an excuse. Any real journalist would jump on this and give Bethesda hell for it. But all these guys don't give a shit and won't stand up for their readers.

It's more than just the performance issues. It's the attitude of Bethesda, they lied and deceived everyone and since the response seems to be 'well its ok on the PC and 360' they have no reason to change and won't be challenged on it.

SolidSnakex · Dec 17, 2011

I agree with you that it isn't right. But this whole situation has exposed game journalists. They should've been all over Bethesda for this while demanding answers about why they released a game that's this broken. It should be a big deal because it's not something that just popped up out of nowhere. Bethesda knew about this issue for years. That's why it's amusing/sad that journalists just write stories saying Bethesda is working on a fix. Really? So they're going to fix this problem in a few weeks/months even though they've had years to find and fix this problem?

Bethesda has turned into an industry darling like no other. They get free passes left and right.

Lactose_Intolerant · Dec 17, 2011

Benjamin1981 said:
Yeah but that should not be an excuse. Any real journalist would jump on this and give Bethesda hell for it. But all these guys don't give a shit and won't stand up for their readers.

There's your problem right there.

British Monsoon · Dec 17, 2011

NinjaFridge said:
It's more than just the performance issues. It's the attitude of Bethesda, they lied and deceived everyone and since the response seems to be 'well its ok on the PC and 360' they have no reason to change and won't be challenged on it.

Yeah, it's this more than anything that has led me to believe that as a long-term, 15+ year fan of their games, Bethesda simply don't give a shit about me or the experience I have once I've forked over my cash. Regardless of whether their future releases are problem-free, they are going to have a hard time convincing me to part with my money ever again.

And this whole debacle and the media's pitiful reaction to it only serves to illustrate what an utter joke game journalism is and why no one should be paying the slightest bit of attention to what any self-styled game journalist has to say.

Evolved1 · Dec 17, 2011

SolidSnakex said:
I agree with you that it isn't right. But this whole situation has exposed game journalists. They should've been all over Bethesda for this while demanding answers about why they released a game that's this broken. It should be a big deal because it's not something that just popped up out of nowhere. Bethesda knew about this issue for years. That's why it's amusing/sad that journalists just write stories saying Bethesda is working on a fix. Really? So they're going to fix this problem in a few weeks/months even though they've had years to find and fix this problem?

Bethesda has turned into an industry darling like no other. They get free passes left and right.

Well they're all in it together. Devs depend on the journos and vice versa.

Only a very small group of games writers are anything other than an extended PR pipeline. The entire industry is fucked up top to bottom. A situation like this just puts it under the microscope.

Tylahedras · Dec 17, 2011

I don't think there's any malice here, games journalists simply don't play on PS3 and are stupid enough to score a game on a platform they didn't play on.

SolidSnakex · Dec 17, 2011

Tylahedras said:
I don't think there's any malice here, games journalists simply don't play on PS3 and are stupid enough to score a game on a platform they didn't play on.

They don't need to play the PS3 version to write stories about it or to ask Bethesda questions. This issue has been well known for weeks now and there are still major sites that only report about it when Bethesda releases patch details.

Bethesda released this to retail and most journalists don't seem to give a shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC5EAiMKt7U

British Monsoon · Dec 17, 2011

Tylahedras said:
I don't think there's any malice here, games journalists simply don't play on PS3 and are stupid enough to score a game on a platform they didn't play on.

Yet despite being proven attention-whores who will jump on and over-react to any growing story to garner precious clicks for their websites, the gaming media at large have been largely silent over this problem which is affecting a huge number of gamers. Bethesda need to be taken to task over this situation, how a game with such a serious performance issue like this was deemed acceptable for release, how their VP of PR & Marketing outright lied to gamers via twitter pre-launch and how Bethesda's reaction as a whole has been extremely lacking since it became apparent just how widespread the problem is.

Sye d'Burns · Dec 18, 2011

Tylahedras said:
I don't think there's any malice here, games journalists simply don't play on PS3 and are stupid enough to score a game on a platform they didn't play on.

It's not malice on the game reviewers part; it's greed. If a site fans the flames of protest by actually doing their job and reporting objectively, what chances do you think they actually have of being able to get an early review the next Bethesda game on any platform?

It's also not stupidity that makes reviewers score a game on a platform they didn't play on; it's laziness couched in blatant dishonesty.

WrenchNinja · Dec 18, 2011

Benjamin1981 said:
On the newest Weekend Confirmed they talk about the situation around the PS3 version. And i must say i'm not in the slightest suprised that this story is not getting any hype in the press. Garnett doesn't care about the technical side and for Jeff it's not that big of a deal because his experience on Xbox was fine and he was not effected. These guys don't feel any responsibility at all to inform their readers/listeners.

Hope you posted this in the weekend confirmed thread.

Averon · Dec 18, 2011

Benjamin1981 said:
On the newest Weekend Confirmed they talk about the situation around the PS3 version. And i must say i'm not in the slightest suprised that this story is not getting any hype in the press. Garnett doesn't care about the technical side and for Jeff it's not that big of a deal because his experience on Xbox was fine and he was not effected. These guys don't feel any responsibility at all to inform their readers/listeners.

So they don't care that many of their listeners and readers were sold lemons? Purposely, mind you? If this doesn't prove to you how shitty/bought off/corrupt the gaming media is I don't know what else can.

hamchan · Dec 18, 2011

It really is a mixture of incompetence and dependence on publishers from the game journalists here. You don't see real journalists covering the real world news just let a hot or controversial story slip away.

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