but I will only buy it if I can play illegal gamez through a flash linker....

Click to expand...

That's more than a year away. Hard to get too excited just yet.

However, since it's backlit I'll buy one...

Click to expand...

The hype for Playstation3 has already long since begun. It's already far
beyond the pre-PS2 pre-hype of 1997-1998. (PS2 was introduced in '99) The
PS3 is going to be a semi-sucky console from Sony with seemingly fast
geometry rates but ulimiately it will be lacking once again--much like PSX
and PS2 a few years after their releases.

Cell is just hype like EE was. oh and PS3 will have "revolutionary new
Duel Shock 3" controllers. whoop-de-fucking-do.

PS3 will be nothing more than a more powerful version of PS2, not unlike PS2
being a more powerful PSX.


you who believe PS3 will be a Godstation and do FF Movie graphics in
realtime will be in for a massive let down.

Click to expand...

It'll still kick the Xbox2 around like a retarded kitten in a sock.

Click to expand...

I'll admit, Zelda has always been a kiddie-style game, but they just turned
Link into a gay midget! I could see myself supporting another Zelda game; but
only for the laugh factor. You've got to be fucking kidding me, Miyamoto-san.
Let me guess, this is a prequel, from when Link was 4 years old? WTF,
Nintendo?

Click to expand...

Yes, it's the almighty adventures of Link in his pre-toddler years and his
adventures
in his mommy's tummy as he fights evil Stomach Acid!

I'd LOVE to see them fit eight dungeons in there....

Click to expand...

Sticking with the topic though, I always thought Zelda was overrated; now it's
become a Saturday morning cartoon. Why does Miyamoto continue to find new and
grander ways to suck? Anyone have a theory on this? Mine is that following
some of his earlier success with Super Mario Bros., sycophants at Nintendo
stopped telling him what was a bad idea. Now we have this abomination, and
where's a new series? Is it just going to be Zelda and Mario for the rest of
his life?

Click to expand...

A) From what I remember Zelda, and Super Mario Bros. the cartoon sucked. I
was referring to the game becoming a Saturday morning cartoon, not a cartoon
being created to capitalize on the success of the game. So yes, I commend you
for having a good memory. That doesn't mean Saturday morning cartoons are
good. There's a reason why kids like them. They're the only ones stupid
enough to enjoy that crap.

b). Starfox; sucked. One of the most pathetic games on the snes. The game
sputters and limps through an engine that was best suited for the pc at the
time. 1080 is an nice diversion, but not exactly revolutionary. I know it
didn't exactly sell any N64s on its own. Pikmin sounds like another
asswipe-blot from Miyamoto. He should really hang it up.

c) When they realized how bad Super Mario World was they should have pulled
the plug on Miyamoto and gone a different direction. Instead, they went with
the guy, crappy games and all, and we saw inferior 16 bit updates to their 8
bit games, a glut of mediocrity and stagnation, until Sega re-entered the
console market with Saturn. Playstation and Saturn revived and reinvented
things. There WAS no enjoyable 3d home gaming until these systems were
launched. Hell, there was very little enjoyable console gaming period. And
what was his re-entry into the fray? Mario 64. "Here we gooooooooh!" Mario
sounds like a retarded elf now. Great. What's more? The gameplay has been
taken from an intense, multi-paced, precision experience and turned into Disney
on acid. Miyamoto no longer has the ability to make a good game. I am not too
old for his games; his concepts are too old for the gamer's needs. We've
evolved, he's still rehashing his original titles.

Click to expand...

Well, now that we have Unrea... Oops, Metroid on the way, who wants to take
bets on how much it'll suck? It's clearly totally divergant from everything
that made the past Metroid games worth playing.

Bring it on. Just don't ever call it Metroid again.

Click to expand...

Well, it may be a premature judgment, but there has been A LOT of talk about
the trouble they've been having with this game. It's my understanding that
they only reason that it even is a first person game is because that's the
only way they could get it to not suck. I wouldn't be surprised if it
totally changes between now and release. On the bright side, Nintendo would
never release a game unless they loved it, so chances are, whatever form
this game comes out in, it will be fairly solid.

Click to expand...

but the big difference is that when those games made the jump to 3D they were
still developed by Nintendo, Metroid is being made by a shitty US developer

Click to expand...

That, and it'll play nothign lime Metroid. Great Unreal MOD tho.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised no one is talking about the announcement that the new
Metroid games is going to be a first-person shooter...

I hope I'm not the only one extremely disappointed by this news. Even
worse is the fact that the game was being developed as third person
game but Nintendo forced Retro Studios to change it to a first person
shooter because they don't like the camera issues that pop up in third
person action games....last I checked Metroid was an adventure game
with more of a focus on exploration than button mashing.

Click to expand...

Metroid is probably dead as a 'creative' line anyway. The driving
force behind the series who kept it all tied together to some overall
vision, has passed away. It's now just a license for Nintendo to
milk and farm out.

And the simple truth is that a FPS perspective will require the
loss of a lot of the things that define a Metroid game as a Metroid
game. (Well, the gameplay things that fit a 'Samus' game.
Technically you can make a Metroid game with only Metroid carrying
over and an entirely new protagonist who fights and controls
entirely different.)

Click to expand...

That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game. They'd be better off
creating a new franchise if they want to create a sci-fi FPS/adventure
game. Hell, they already have Perfect Dark which is supposedly going
to be a launch title. That said, if they were still planning on making
a more traditional Metroid game I'd be all for a Metroid FPS in the
same way that it'd be cool to see Zelda turned into a fighting game
knowing that a proper installment is forthcoming.

Click to expand...

Will Retro destroy Metroid?

Think of some other awesome 2D SNES games that were destroyed when they made
the transition to 3D...

Contra 3 The Alien Wars
Castlevania 4

Contra was turned into two horrible 3D PSX games... And the awesome Castlevania
4 turned up as a bad 3D game on N64...

I think Metroid should remain a side scrolling game, but 2.5D like Yoshi, but
not soo darn cute of course

Do you agree? Or should it be 3D and more likely than not a bad! Doing a game
in 3D just because you can does not
make it a good idea...

E-mail Nintendo at nintendo@noa.nintendo.com

Tell them not to let Retro destroy The Metroid
series!!!

Click to expand...

nope, Metroid's main theme was always exploring, not shooting, besides this
won't be a true Metroid game anyway since it is not being developed by
Nintendo...

Click to expand...

All video games are for kiddies. No video game has ever had a target
audience over 18. And if you think teenagers are mature, then you must
be one yourself...

When I was 12, I really liked slasher movies. Now that I'm in my 20s,
they seem ridiculous to me. There's nothing in them for intelligent
people. At least the better cartoons have jokes for both the kids and
the adults.

Click to expand...

hehe .. zelda a mature title? People have been blinded by the two terrible
additions to the Zelda franchise on the N64. The GameCube Zelda is going
back to Zelda's very roots, and that is excellent. I agree that they fit the
game very well .. no more of this "attempted realism" bullshit.

Click to expand...

Are you kidding?! I'm not happy about this at all!
Metroid was a JAPANESE game! RETRO STUDIOS?!?!?
BASED IN TEXAS?!?!? EX-IGUANA MEMBER?!?!?
Regardless of GameCube's techinical specs and capabilities --
Metroid could go the way of the Pilotwings 64 or worst -- Contra series.
I hate when shit like this goes down. Metriod couldn't have been that bad
in Japan to favor this. Man, if only Gumpei Yokoi ( RIP ) could see this --

he'd turnover in his grave! Either get Nintendo's EAD to do Metroid or
don't do it at all!

Other Metroid fans knows what's up -- Speak your peace!

Click to expand...

Takao said:

I've been reading a Game.com news group recently and it's kind of crazy. These guys would drool over literally the 4 games released in a year, and would hope Tiger wouldn't let them down. There was also some weird ass rivalry between them and the NeoGeo Pocket fandom. I guess they were competing for #1 irrelevant handheld. That said, reading it gave me a much better understanding of the Game.com and what happened to it. Seems Tiger had Pokemon and Mario clones in development. Furby was supposed to lead the Mario clone and attempt to be the platform's mascot.

Click to expand...

People,
does anyone else have a Virtual Boy? If you do, and are mad at Nintendo,
Please E-mail them. If you do, please give me your E-mail address. Me
and a friend of mine are starting a petition aginst Nintendo, to tell
them to bring back the Virtual Boy. Also, tell them to bring back the
games that they told us they would put on the market.
Thanks for your help!!--

Click to expand...

Lijik said:

This inspired me to look up discussion on the Virtual Boy and on July 12th, 1997 one Brian E Wilcoxon lead a one man rally across over 40 newsgroups (including such relevant outlets as alt.smokers.pipes and chi.internet) to try and get Nintendo to bring back the system:

Click to expand...

Ooooh, better run folks, HE HAS WORD! Oh no! Great Games? Name one
great game for the Mac and I can name at least 50 for the Amiga. Last time I
checked DCTV allowed 24 bit color. Correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Amiga-know it
all..

Click to expand...

Great games???? Macintosh???? Get real. And as for 24 bit color check
out Firecracker 24 on a 2000/3000 (alternatively HAM-E or DCTV for us
less fortunate 500 users.)
What kind of nifty features? I use Macs too (under protest) and what
always impresses me is that the OS looks like it was designed for
idiots. Example - Multifinder - a joke at multitasking.

Click to expand...

I made a few mistakes and am posting the corrections now:

The subject _should_ have read "I have an brain tumor and a apple macintosh"

I don't know why everyone thinks the ameega is so hot, I've had a mac for 3
years now, and I think it's really great. Look at all the hot stuff I can do
with it:

Finder, File Find, Create New Folder, make it burp when it ejects a
disk (TeeHeeHeeHee!), Click on "OK" in the bomb window, Play a neat tune when
pressing the reset button, MAC PLAYMATE!!!!!!!, drool on the keyboard, ect.

Anytime I've used a "Ameba"(*) they've always crashed, the workbench is
really cheap looking (too much blue!!, no selecting cool golf-pants pattern
background), not to mention you can only use amyga modems and hardrives with
an amoga, and THER'ES NO SOFTWEAR AVAIALBE!!!!!.

I like my mac much more than Ilike amigas. (and I'll never change!!). Also
amibas are big copycats in that apple invented the mouse and I think they
invented dos to.

Click to expand...

The basic reason I disliked mac's was becuase the users have this
aroma about them that is just very unpleasant. It is
that aroma of "technological anxiety". I knew that if I had
to get a mac I would be having these technological discussions
with first-day-beginners. I remember describing to some idiot
mac user what the meaning of "save" is. Mac users are a quiet
bunch but not nearly as dumb as the IBM freaks. My brother
is such a guy. He just got a 80486 33mhz and is enthusiatic
about networking and programming. He gets so depressed
becuase I stay with amiga's. I like amiga's becuase
they have what I like. And all the IBM users which think amiga's are
for people with propeller hats, they can go off and play their
neato videogames and play around with thier wordperfect.
I'm the creative type, and ya, I do 3D sculpturing, Desktop publishing,
Painting, Music and write in AREXX and PASCAL. I'm a novice programmer
but I sure ain't a novice on computers (been around them
since I was 13).

Click to expand...

> ** Atari Ships $250 Jaguar System **
>
> Last week, Atari Corp. formally launched its $250 64-bit games mach-
>ine, the Jaguar. Computergram International said the machines will go
>on sale in New York and San Francisco in the next few weeks, in the rest
>of the U.S. early next year, and in Europe later next year. Atari says
>that next year it will offer a $200 CD-ROM drive add-on to play audio
>compact disks and disk-based games. The Jaguar systems are being made
>for Atari by IBM's Charlotte, N.C., operations.
>
> Atari chief Sam Tramiel has told reporters he expects the company to
>sell 40,000 to 50,000 Jaguars before Christmas and at least 500,000 in
>1994. "The critical requirement," comments CI, "is for successful soft-
>ware, and there will only be four games this year, and perhaps two
>dozen next year; the games will cost $40 to $50." The Jaguar ships with
>one game cartridge included.
>


WOWEE!! Atari -HOPES- to have (gasp) 24 GAMES released for the Jag by the end
of next year?! Bahahahahahahahahah


Theres already 3 TIMES as many titles available for CD32 ALREADY! And hell,
were even yet another step ahead of you girls, because the CD32 has a CD-ROM
already on it! We dont have to dish out another $200!

You guys are quite sad. Considering all it takes to develop for CD32 is for
previous Amiga developers to port their software over to CD format, your
machine will absolutely be BURIED by the competition if all your company hopes
to offer is a measly 20 or 30 measly games.

Click to expand...

:#Donley claims the Jag is not as good as CD-32 because it lacks a CD-ROM.
:#Never mind that you can add one later, and still come close to CD-32's
:#price, with the prospect of even better performance....

If I was to buy a games console now it would have to have a CD-ROM
available with it. Not something that will/might show up later. If in 6
months, the Jaguar does have the CD-ROM available then it'll be in
contention with my choices of games console. If it isn't around by then,
well it's out of contention with my buying choices. If people want to
stick to catridge base for awhile then that's their choice. My choice is
CD-ROM.

:#Now, let's say Donley is right, and the CD-ROM is "all that"... well,
:#what good is that device if the games being ported are all able to
:#fit on a cartridge anyways? I've seen 3DO games, and in the case of
:#the title that comes with it (Crash 'N Burn), I know Sega or SNES would
:#be hard pressed to put something like that on a cart. The Jaguar's
:#carts are higher capacity, and could do it (or at worse, come very close!)
:#and have no "load time" involved.

That's if the games being put on CD-ROMs can fit on a catridge. In my
experience the majority of stuff coming out on CD-ROMs will not fit on a
catridge. I've seen Crash 'N Burn, nice, but I don't really go for racing
games. Not my type of fun, sorry.

:#So I'm wondering... what good is this advantage until software comes
:#out that demands the added storage?
:#Price isn't a factor... the games cost as much as cart titles.
:#Speed is slower than a cart.
:#Storage... well... if it's not being used, it's a waste.

The software that's been coming out for CD32 CD-ROM disks can't be piled
into a catridge without losing a lot of other things that enhances the game.
Given your words, what good is the Falcon advantage if software that comes
out that demands the added storage isn't available?

I think the stages for Jaguar software development will follow along
something of these lines, IMHO:
For Atari to provide a catridge based system will only insure
that developers will have to squeeze down the size of the code to fit on
the catridge. That's going to leave the Falcon with an initial slew of
catridge games that will not be showing off everything the Falcon has to
give until a CD-ROM player comes out.

This also, brings into question the next phase of software development.
For awhile developers will be still producing games for the Jaguar on
catridges, even after the CD-ROM becomes available since the catridge based
consoles will be their low-end until a larger number of CD-ROM units are
sold.

Third phase, the Jaguar will be seeing many ports of catridge based games
to CD-ROM disks so, it'll be facing the same thing as the A1200 -> CD32
ports. Most of those CD-ROM ports will carry extra sound, levels, etc.

The last phase is that the Jaguar will begin seeing more games being
available on CD-ROM and shows off the capabilities of the Jaguar.

Because of Atari providing a catridge based console, it'll take the Jaguar a
much longer time in reaching the final phase of software development than
if they had initially came out with a CD-ROM based console.

:#I'm not saying CD-32 is a bad system, only that it's ridiculous for
:#anyone to claim it can stomp on the Jaguar.

Well, I'm not saying that the CD32 is the best on the market, but it is
better than the Nintendo/Genesis systems. It also has a good initial price
and has been showing a lot of developer support. I believe C= stated about
75 CD32 titles should be out by end of this year. I wouldn't claim that
the CD32 will stomp the Jaguar as each has their merits. Same goes for the
3DO though I still don't like that price tag.

:#(in fact, i really don't think it will be able to compete with Jag
:# in the marketplace because of the keywords "64-bit" and the 24-bit
:# video...)

Remains to be seen.

:#>Another developer had stated their Pinball Illusions or with it Fantasies,
:#>whatever, will come out more levels for the CD32 version than the Amiga
:#>version.
:#>
:#Not to be too inflammatory, but if only one title shows marked improvement
:#over the A1200 version, what is the purpose of CD-32?

Geez, that was only used as an example of what I had posted earlier about.
One title doesn't mean that's all, did you want a listing of what every
developer said they are planning on?

Click to expand...

Project reality is a joke...
5 times processor speed--ooh wow really fast
5 times memory--80 megabit = 26 megabyte with FMV? Yeah, right.
What do they mean MIPS processor?
MIPS is million instructions per second. Huh?
Do you mean RISC? (Reduced instruction set computing)
And if the cartridges are any bigger--wait, if the cartridges are even
the same size, do you remember how much neo-geo cartridges (50 megabit)
costed? ($200--sell *none*)
And, BTW, it (a guess) will come out in early 1996 or late 1995, which
is 2 years away. By that time, the market base will have shifted away
from nintendo. Nintendo is far to late. I hope they get the death they
deserve (and then I can say 'I told you so' to all of my friends)

Click to expand...

Nintendo is stupid. Why would they say 'so fast at accessing
data [the processor] that there would be no delays'?
They are idiots! It is *not* the processor on the 3DO that makes
some things choppy (some of the things on the 3DO are *not* choppy,BTW)
Nintendo should die!
I still cannot believe FMV on a cart. (What a joke--it's not even funny)
FMV makes *CD* space limited. Putting it on a 600 MB cart (size of CD)
which is 4800 megabits--*****VERY***** expensive.
What gives, nintendo?
Are you *that* stupid?

Click to expand...

Has anyone looked at EGM lately? I think that the magazine
has gone nuts! In there they hailed the Saturn as if it where some
sort of technical marvel. The specs. they showed weren't even that
impressive! For instance, they claimed that the Saturn would have two
graphic modes - one with 1024 colors and one with 2048 colors.
That's fine, but their comments about this were something to the
effect of "this is better than any gaming system available." Hmm...
have they heard of 3DO, the Jaguar, or CD-32? All three of these
systems can handle modes with a greater number of colors.
The magazine is also consistently trying to bury 3DO before
it's born! They still will not admit to their mistake about Sanyo
shelving their plans for the 3DO, and now, they have some bogus
information about AT&T holding their plans! This magazine is a piece
of crap. That wouldn't bother me a bit, but a number of kids and some
unfortunate adults (as I did) actually read this stuff and some
believe it! This hurts 3DO and Panasonic. Why don't they do
something about it? Isn't it illegal to lie about a product time
and again? Can't 3DO, Sanyo, or AT&T take legal action?

Click to expand...

EGM is, how shall we say, Biased? I used to read their mag, but got sick of
the reviewers trashing many good games on "principle" (i.e. don't like
Atari, etc. etc.)

I like reading the NewsGroups for video game info. Hell, it may be not all
true, but it's a sight bit more enterraining than EGM

Click to expand...

Just wanted to remind everyone that the 3DO sytem and technology is not merely a video game machine. It is also a high quality CD player, a high quality Photo-CD palyer, and an interactive TV-top device capable of doing a multitude of interactive operations. Hence, I think that even the current price of $699 is cheap compared to other machines that are just video games. Also, remember that in this day and age, hardware prices fall before you can say "hardware." Software is the king and if you consider tha

t 3DO charges a royalty of only $1 per game disk sold, where as Nintendo and Sega charge a royalty of aroud $7 per game, you can clearly see the merits of owning a 3DO machine.

Click to expand...

>but the graphics were misdone, in my opinion.
>The texture mapping gave it a fake look, to my mind. It was all too
>predictably mottled, and the colours were odd.

I suppose you think the graphics in CyberMorpb look better? Let me
let you in on a little secret... THEY STINK.

TIME named 3DO product of the year because the graphics are groundbreaking.
CnB makes the best use of texture mapping I have ever seen. IMHO it
looks much nicer than DOOM which I have played extensively on my 486/66
PC. [doesn't play nicer but, alas, you can't have everything]

Click to expand...

: I've noticed this about Atari advocates. Many seem to be sour 20-30
: year olds with no comprehension of the fact that there can, indeed, be
: excellent products manufactured for children. Despite the fact that
: much of the 3DO kids software is extremely well produced and, in some
: cases, has won awards on other platforms they dismiss it as shovelware.

Click to expand...

I also have both a Genesis and a SNES. Your comment re the sound quality
of the SNES is totally wrong. The sound is fantastic had you bothered to
listen to more games. As far as graphics go, I'd say that 8 bit graphics
(256 colour mode) in up to 5xxby4xx is pretty damn good. Your disparaging
comment re the 65816 is based on ignorance. The Genesis is very good. The
7MHz 68000 is no better than the 63816 which are now coming out. Programming
in assembler for the 65816 yields great results, and the games on the SNES
show it. So what if it runs at 3.xxMHz. The two cpu's are not comparable,
and we shall see what happens when the 14 and 20MHz 65816's being made by
Sanyo find their way into the SNES/CD-I unit.

In any case both consoles are very good. The Genesis could do with a better
graphics mode. 16 colours isn't enough. Both will take away games off
computers, and if Commodore and Philips get their acts together on CDTV/CD-I,
then the days of computer gaming with quickly come to an end.

I still maintain that people want things attached to the TV and not have to
sit in a solitary fashion in front of some 12" screen [not directed to you].

Click to expand...

3. FUN factor: Don't ask me why, but 99% of computer games just aren't fun.
The fun ones are usually ported over to the consoles (ie EA ports most
of their stuff to the Genesis, and lots of RPGs come over to both the
Genesis and the SNES as well). Most computer games seem to be huge, bloated,
overly long RPGs, which are fine if you like that sort of thing. But there
has never been a game like Sonic or Mario on a computer...never. The few
platform games that do appear are usually rather bland and unplayable.

Click to expand...

4. Formality: There's nothing I hate more than sitting at my desk trying
to enjoy an Amiga "game". I'd much rather slouch down on the bed and plug
in a Genesis cart...much more casual, more informal...which is a must for
good video gaming.

Click to expand...

5. Graphics/Sound: This used to be a big factor in favour of computers,
but it's not 1982 anymore, bub. THe Genesis and the Super Nintendo are
both as powerful as any home computer in terms of graphics and sound.
One need only consult the 2 megabyte Street Fighter II on the Super NES
or Sonic the Hedgehog on the Genesis to see that this is the case.

Click to expand...

> MR. VIDEO GUY RESPONDS:

> Upon losing millions by the end of 1983, Atari was sold by its
> parent, Warner Communications, and, thus, the Golden Age of video games
> came to an abrupt end. Supposedly, this "crash" came due to Americans'
> waning interest in playing video-games with blocky graphics and dinky
> sound. Nintendo revived the industry in 1985, through careful marketing
> and keen observation of what went wrong the first time around. This is
> the "truth" according to many, including VG&CE's Arnie "Mr. Video-Gaming
> Know-It-All" Katz.

> Don't believe any of this for a second, Deb. This textbook fairy tale
> is the biggest perpetrated lie in video-gaming today. How could Atari
> Inc., one of the top American corporations in the early 80's, be deemed a
> financial loser even though its losses didn't come close to overcoming its
> past profits, taking inflation into account as well? Why did Warner act
> uncharacteristically jittery about these losses? Couldn't one of the
> world's biggest media conglomerates absorb Atari's losses for a lot longer
> than they actually did? Consider the smaller company NEC and their
> TurboGraphX-16. In the book ZAP! -- THE RISE AND FALL OF ATARI,
> mismanagement is blamed for the video-game giant's demise. But even if
> this were the case (which is dubious), why didn't Warner execs just ax the
> boneheads in charge of Atari and replace them? And who says mismanagement
> itself justifies the dismantling of an entire industry? Look at the
> American auto industry. I know what you're thinking..."Whoa, Mr. Video
> Guy has gone off the deep end because of his bitterness from not getting a
> promotion where he works." Yet before you write me off as another
> conspiracy paranoic, ask yourself these questions:

> (1) Who would've benefited from Atari's death?
> (2) Who could've pulled it off?
> (3) Who could've covered it up? Who?

> Atari didn't die, Miss Debs. It was killed -- by NINTENDO. Some
> facts: From the late 1970's to early 80's, Atari dominated the coin-op
> scene. Clearly, the beginning of the video-game industry was not only
> American invented but influenced, too. The only stride that the Japanese
> made during these times was Space Invaders, but they were still too busy
> hawking pachinko, their lame-o answer to pinball. Eventually, it was
> clear to the Japanese entertainment industry that America, along with the
> rest of the world, would never be hip to Japanese pop music and Akira
> Kurosawa flicks. Already the masters of consumer electronic gadgetry.,
> they, naturally, wanted to produce a cultural export. After all,
> America's most profitable export is its culture, in the form of bad
> movies, dumb TV shows, and tone-deaf pop songs. How else do you explain
> Jerry Lewis and the French?

> There was only one avenue left for Japanese entertainment to try
> pervading; video-games. But one thing stood in their way, Atari. Not eve
> n the American companies Mattel and Coleco could topple Atari's grip.
> Competing coin-op game makers also failed to break the company's equally
> tight hold in the arcades, among them Sega. So, you see, Debbie, lots of
> companies on both fronts wanted Atari dead.

> Let us now SPECULATE the events that might have occurred leading up to
> that tragic day in 1983...

> * - Japan's #1 cheesy LCD "card" game maker Nintendo (overconfident by the
> success of their Donkey Kong coin-op and sequels) forms a secret
> alliance with Japan's #1 coin-op game company Sega (producers of
> pretty looking but quickly boring-to-play arcade games) to look at the
> possibility of unseating Atari in the video-game marketplace.

> * - Atari sells over five million units of Pac-Man for their 2600 unit.
> Sears declares the cartridge the second fastest selling item they've
> ever carried. Seeing how Atari is so powerful that it can literally
> slap together an atrociously bad arcade translation and make nearly a
> billion dollars unsettles the Nintendo/Sega alliance. Prompted also
> by the fact that Mattel's superior Intellivision still isn't taking
> off (despite TV endorsements by boring George Plimpton and what
> Nintendo/Sega feels is its excellent pad controllers), they decide to
> back off for now.

> * - (Late 1982) Nintendo cohorts with Coleco to bring Donkey Kong to the
> former leather company's new ColecoVision system, and Sega
> contributes their equally bland Turbo. Despite much fanfare and
> moderate consumer interest, the system only does slightly better than
> mediocre. The Atari 2600, primitive as it is, still manages to
> maintain its majority share in the industry. The Nintendo/Sega
> alliance seems to be going nowhere.

> * - (Middle 1983) Atari reports losses in the millions since its
> ownership under Warner Communications. This is not unusual
> considering that the early years of the Reagan era were a time of
> recession for most American businesses. To bring them out of this
> slump, Atari has big plans for the 5200 and even bigger ones for the
> still-on-the-drawing-board 7800, which promises to outperform all
> video-game systems.

> * - In a desperate move, the Nintendo/Sega alliance makes a deal with
> Warner Communications: Sell off the consumer division of Atari to an
> idiot who would likely run it to the ground. In return, the alliance
> would insure that its powerful lobbyists would petition Congressmen to
> lighten up on antitrust laws barring Warner from acquiring or merging
> with other media companies. This should be a cinch to do, considering
> the Reagan administration's "free trade" and "hands off" policy
> regarding business. Executives at Warner, preferring to control one
> big pie rather than having to worry about several pies, accepts the
> deal.

> * - (Late 1983) Warner publicly announces the financial losses of Atari
> for the year and states misgivings about the video-game business.
> Among their statements is that America is tiring of video games. The
> mass media jumps on the bandwagon, adding that Atari's games are
> "blocky looking" and "dinky sounding", too. Atari stock plummets.

> * - Warner announces the sale of Atari's home division to Jack "The Patsy"
> Tramiel. Tramiel, the mastermind behind the Commodore Vic-20 fiasco,
> declares that the new Atari, Atari Corp., will be in the business of
> selling computers which everyone can afford. He fails to add,
> however, that hardly anyone will want them.

> * - Warner retains the coin-op division of Atari, renaming it Atari Games.
> Two years later, in keeping to their agreement with the Nintendo/Sega
> alliance , they sell it for a killing to the Japanese company Namco,
> the inventors of Pac-Man.

> * - In the same year, Nintendo introduces the NES. After "careful
> evaluation of the previous market", they state that the time is right
> for a new generation of video games. Among the NES' selling points
> are Robbie the Robot and its pad controllers, which are essentially
> improved versions of the Intellivision's.

> * - Having accomplished their mutual goal, Nintendo and Sega cease their
> alliance. It's agreed that Sega will stick to the arcade coin-op
> industry , where it has become #1 after Atari's demise, and stay out
> of the consumer market. Likewise, Nintendo promises to concentrate
> only on home video-gaming and keep out of the arcade scene, except for
> an occasional, badly produced coin-op such as Super Mario Bros. and
> Rad Racer that will only be available for play in kiddie "pizza-time
> theater" restaurants.

> * - Jack Tramiel nearly runs Atari Corp. into the ground, thanks to his
> purchase of the Federated electronic stores and saying stupid, already
> known facts such as Apple computers being "too expensive" and IBM
> systems as "inefficient".

> * - The temptation for Sega is too strong, and so they ally themselves
> with Tonka Toys and jointly enter the home market with the Sega Master
> System, sparking a blood feud with their former ally that continues to
> this day. This venture fails, but Sega is even more determined to "do
> it all".

> * - (1988) Warner Communications merges with Time Inc., forming the Time
> Warner company. The new company acquires controlling interest in
> Atlantic Records. Time Warner is responsible for the Batman motion
> picture and its inevitable, upcoming sequels.

> * - In the January 9th, 1992 issue of Rolling Stone (with Michael Jackson
> on the cover trying to look like a man) there's an article on Sigeru
> Miyamoto, the twisted genius behind Nintendo's "Mario" games. David
> Sheff writes, "...Japanese software, such as books, movies and
> recordings, has had little impact outside Japan. The exception is
> video games. One Japanese writer. ..has noted that Nintendo is
> Japan's largest cultural export, 'bigger than Akira Kurosawa.'"

> Ever wondered how Nintendo got off so easily in their recent court
> settlement with California's Attorney General? Killing off Atari was by
> no means easy for Nintendo, but they did it. Thus, having their sentence
> reduced to a paltry $5 rebate plan couldn't have been that difficult for
> them to do. And look at their past court cases against Tengen, the home
> division of Atari Games, and their attempts to acquire the Seattle
> Mariners.

> Also, why has Sega -- like their trademark mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog
> been such an annoying, arrogant pest to Nintendo? Because they're
> aggressive competitors? Right. They're still resentful over their former
> pact because they felt they got the raw end of the deal.

> The one thing that didn't go as planned for Nintendo and Sega was that
> Atari didn't die completely. Today, Atari Corp. would probably be
> nonexistant if it weren't for the Lynx, originally designed by Epyx, which
> has turned out to be their lifesaver for the time being. Otherwise, the
> Nintendo/Sega alliance pulled off the perfect coup. Software support has
> always been a problem for Atari Corp.'s hardware since the company doesn't
> have the resources of an arcade division. "Divide and conquer" as the
> saying goes.

> I'm not the only one who knows of this insidious plot. I suspect that
> Arnie Katz and the Game "Bill Kunkel" Doctor know it as well, have known
> about it all along, and are keeping mum. However, I doubt they're doing
> this because they're covering up for Nintendo and Sega. Rather, they
> might've been warned to keep their mouths shut by the perpetrators. You
> have to remember that in the latter years of Electronic Games (just before
> the magazine was retitled Computer Entertainment), Katz and the Doc were
> mysteriously absent from its pages, for reasons they care not to
> elaborate. Had they discovered the truth and already knew of Nintendo's
> plans as early as 1984?

> I'll bet Steve "Arnie Katz Lookalike-and-Wannabee" Harris of
> Electronic Gaming Monthly knows a lot about all of this, too. His
> magazine has been bankrolled by Japanese investment from the very start
> (when it was originally Electronic Game Player). Ever noticed how Harris
> and Quarterman are a lot like Katz and the Doc in terms of concept, though
> radically different in style? I doubt this is coincidence rather than by
> design.

> Another whom I believe knows a lot more than he's willing to tell is
> Howard "TV Weatherman Dress-Alike" Phillips, the former Nintendo
> spokesperson who left his position for a conspiciously ambiguous role with
> Lucasfilm Games. Did he learn the truth, too, and decide to get out for
> his own safety, thus, depriving Nester someone to be a sidekick for? A
> while ago, I got a phone call from someone who sounded suspiciously
> familiar:

> "V-Video Guy! Listen -- you've got to get out! You're way over your
> head!"

> "Who is this? Howard?? Is this Howard Phillips?!"

> "Didn't you read the ***damn business section today?? They got the
> ****ing California Attorney General?! The ****ing Attorney General of
> California!! Not even Larry Flynt's ****ing lawyers can protect you!
> I'm warning you as a colleague -- just drop it if you know what's
> ***damn ****ing good for you!!"

> Well, I'm not going to drop it, Howard (or whoever you are). The
> assassination of Atari was the single most horrible event for an entire
> generation of video-gaming. It tore the heart out from what promised to
> be a new age of electronic entertainment - - never mind that it had
> primitive graphics and anemic sound. It robbed the dreams of those who
> were the first to put their hands around a joystick. And, by golly, you
> can be sure that I'm going to keep at it -- till all the files and other
> relevant papers that are locked away in some big government building
> sort-of-place are released so that the video-gaming public can decide for
> themselves what really happened on that fateful day in 1983.

> So there you have it, Debbie. The TRUTH. Now you know why
> video-gaming is in the state it is. And why movies and pop music have
> especially sucked lately. I'll tell you, every day I wonder how safe it
> is to live in the U.S. of A. when even our own video games are dripping
> with corruption and greed. Oh, and thanks for the kind words. We at
> VG&CE always strive to do our best for readers like you!

Click to expand...

Joel Anderson of NCR asked recently about power requirements for the
Nintendo GameBoy, to which Craig Stodolenak of Lakesys responds:

> Because then they can't bilk you for who-knows-how-much for their
> custom power accessories?

I almost hate to bring this up, especially in this particular forum,
but what is it about Nintendo that people get so hostile about? I mean,
here's a company that has single-handedly turned around the home
entertainment industry with the NES, has pulled in over $5 billion in
revenue in the United States (an impressive achievement), and has
consistently the best quality games available. Pretty damn good in
my book, frankly.

So what's the problem? Is the fundamental issue here that they're a
Japanese firm? If so, okay, so let's just admit to a bit of xenophobia
and get on with things, shall we? If not, then what?

I am quite aware of the way that Nintendo Corporation does business
too; I've had a number of discussions with Nintendo America about the
possibility of creating some GameBoy games, and have found them a firm
that is exceptionally concerned with consistent quality in their games,
hence their strong "protectionist" attitude about cartridges not approved
by them (though it's not really protectionist, if you study modern
economic theories).

By comparison, McDonald's franchises are only allowed to buy supplies
from the corporate sanctioned distributors, even down to the printing
of the fliers they put on the trays. To become a McD franchise, in
fact, you have to not only pay an incredible amount up front, but you
then have to absorb the cost of building, zoning, developing,
advertising, and so on. I'll bet you have to pay for Ronald McDonald
to visit too. Nice deal for the corporate office, eh? They sit back
and get all the money without any of the risk.

You know WHY they've set it up this way? Because the cornerstone of
McDonald's success has been consistency, and the best way to ensure
that something is consistent is to have control over all elements of
the product. EXACTLY the same approach that Nintendo has taken to
the previously mottled video game market.

So I ask again, what's so bad about Nintendo?

Click to expand...

I didn't want to turn this back into a Nintendo-bash, but I personally don't
like Nintendo. I'm not asking anyone else to share my opinion, but I have the
right to express that view.

They use low-end technology with high end marketing to achive success; fine.
But a techno-weenie like myself would like to see technology being pushed to
its limit and have the best unit win, not the best marketing department.
Forcing competitors out of the marketplace with "questionable" marketing
tactics may be fair or it may not be... it's just not something that I like to
see in an area of consumer electronics that I enjoy.

Click to expand...

The thing that irks me the most is the "chop-sakki", as I think
I heard someone say it, symdrome. All of the games are the same
crap hashed over and over and over again. Bubble Bobble is the
only original game I've seen in quite some time now.

Don't believe me? Try renting Commando and Strider, both by
Capcom. They're almost identical! Still don't believe me?
Try renting Blaster Master and Fester's Quest, both by Sunsoft.
They're almost identical, too! Different game, same play-action.

I'm starting to agree with the guy who said that the Atari 2600
is the best game system ever because of all the original stuff
that came out for it because the hardware is soooooo crude.
Same thing with computer games played on dumb ascii terminals.
Display possibilities are so limited that people had to come up
with some real original ideas to make for good games.

Makes you stop and think....
Great game concepts, not necessarily great sound and graphics,
makes for really great games.

I'm just glad that you can rent Nintendo games so I don't have
to blow all of my money on crap games like I did for my
Colecovision.

Click to expand...

EmCeeGramr said:

Video Games Superior on Consoles

Click to expand...

When you have an 11 year old brother (when watching a TV commercial:
"It's a new Atari cartridge! I want it! I want it! What is it?")
you get to see a lot of the new games. Here are reviews based on
limited experience with each.

Demon Attack. This is a clear ripoff of Space Invaders, but it's
different enough that it feels like a totally different game.
Instead of having several rows of marching soldiers, you have three
fluttering bird-like creatures overhead. They wiggle and flutter
in such a way as to make them very hard to hit. When you hit one,
another one appears (half from the left, half from the right - it's
kind of neat) to take its place. Each wave has 8 creatures - no
more appear after that until the next wave. The bottom one of
the three shoots at you, but they are pretty easy to dodge.
The appearance of the creatures changes from wave to wave.
After several waves, hitting a creature causes it to split into
two smaller birds, one of which shoots at you and the other
eventually dive bombs you. Thus it takes three hits to kill one
creature, for a total of 24 hits per wave. The waves get increasingly
difficult. The game is fun and challenging, but it's not going to
keep anyone interested for more than 1/2 hour at a time, and it's
likely to get put on the bottom of the heap more rapidly than a
Defender or Donkey Kong. On a 1 to 10 I'd rate it a 4.

Pitfall. You control Patfall Harry as he tries to run through the
jungle collecting treasure and avoid various traps. The game is
very much like our familiar Unix "Adventure" program - the layout
is fixed, making a map is worthwhile, and after a while the object
becomes "how fast can you get all the way through". I suspect that
"a while" is pretty long, however. There are 255 rooms, arranged
linearly. Each room has an aboveground area and a below ground
area, and some combination of properties. There might be a ladder
between up and down; there might be holes to fall down into, there
might be a lake or tarpit in the middle, the lake/tarpit might
disappear and reappear regularly, there might be a vine to swing
over the lake/tarpit with, there might be 3 alligators in the lake
to jump/swing over, there might be some treasure to the right of
center, and there are a few other hazards (a fire, a "cobra rattler",
and below there is often a scorpion). Many of the rooms have rolling
logs you have to avoid or jump over, some have still logs. Scoring is
interesting - you start with 2000 points and lose points for making
mistakes (being hit by a log, falling down a hole into the below ground).
You gain points for finding treasure. You can get killed (this does
not cost any points but the third time you get killed the game is
over) by falling into a tarpit or lake, the jaws of a gator, a fire,
a snake, or a scorpion. Don't ask me why buring your leg in a fire
or touching the edge of a lake is fatal, but falling into a 30 foot
hole or being run over by a log is only a minor setback. There is
a time limit of 20 minutes, which the instructions imply is not enough
unless you get tricky. (You can't always go underground because there
are brick walls, but when you are underground you skip 2 out of every
3 rooms, this can avoid some brick walls and makes things go faster,
but you need a map to know where to do it.) A perfect game is 114000,
a score of 10000 qualifies the owner for the Activision club membership
(they send you a patch or something if you send in a photo of your TV
screen), Ivan got 20000 the first day and was beating 50000 within a
week without a map. The graphics are good by Atari standards (the
scorpion walks with 2 phases, Harry visibly runs and gets knocked on
his butt by logs, but the gators have 2 phases - mouth open and mouth
shut). It is difficult to control Harry until you get lots of
practice - jumping up and grabbing the vine is easy, but it's hard not
to fall in the lake when you let go. Hopping over 3 gators by jumping
on their heads is very hard - you stand on the 2nd ones head through
a "mouth open" phase to do it. The logs are not hard to jump, but
the scorpion is. Overall I'd give it a "good" - comparable to Asteroids
or Pinball. Not as good as Defender or Donkey Kong. Probably a 7.

Swordquest. This is another Adventure style game. There are some
impressive but simple graphics in the intro - a glittering sword,
and a strange effect when you go from one room to another. There
are several (12?) rooms, each with a different color and 4 doors.
You can go from one room to another without actually going "in"
the room - you hit the button to jump between the room and what
must be an entryway. (We had a borrowed cartridge and no instructions.)
Inside the room is a menu driven system where you can point at any
object on the floor (using the joystick) and hit the button, causing
it to go into your pack. Pointing at something in your pack drops
it on the floor. Pointing at the door (an icon) gets you out.
Each room is also labelled with a sign of the Zodiac. Various other
things are useful - shoes make you silent, a key gives you more
choices of rooms to go to, a shield allows you to avoid spears, etc.
Some rooms have "tests" to get into them - usually you must cross
the screen without being hit by things moving back and forth; spears
or invisible dots (which the candle helps you see). One test requires
you to ride logs up a step at a time to reach the top, another one
makes you go through holes in several waterfalls (nice sound effect
and pretty falls) without getting wet. In each case, if you mess
up you just go back to the beginning of the test. You never get killed.
One room provides a clue, which is "16 4" followed by "8 4". Not
having the instructions, I have no idea what this means or what
the ultimate object of the game is. Overall rating: like Adventure
but the graphics are better. Perhaps a 4.

Star Raiders. Easily the most complex of the Atari space games.
This is a ripoff of your favorite matrix style Star Trek program,
in a 4x4 galaxy, with all the names changed to avoid copyright
problems. Some things are simplified - it starts with 10, 20,
30, or 40 bad guy ships, and they travel in a pack (always in the
same sector). The map shows you where you are, they are, and your
base is. Docking to refuel just involves warping to the sector
(the galaxy is 4x4 sectors - there are no quadrants) with the base,
waiting for a few seconds, and warping back to wherever you were.
The game is more expensive than most ($35 at Penneys) because it
comes with a 12 button keyboard and an overlay. 5 of the buttons
are used, to switch between the normal display and the galaxy map,
turn on/off the computer, on/off the shields, and warp. The impressive
part of the game is the graphics. "normal view" is a cross between
2D and 3D perspective - not unlike what Kirk saw out his viewscreen.
Stars (dots) go by from the center to the edges, and actually accelerate
as they near the edges. If you spin your ship (with the joystick)
you see the effect in the stars positions. Enemy ships are 2D shapes
whose size varies according to the distance and whose position appears
to be in 3D perspective. You can see your photon torpedos fire from
the lower left and right corners of the screen and get smaller and
higher as they approach the target in the center of the screen.
(I assume a hit is determined in 2D.) Yet, with all this, the
alphanumerics are in the standard ugly Atari 3x7 font. The object
of the game is to kill all the enemy ships before they kill you
and destroy your starbase. If they hit you it takes away energy,
you get killed when your energy hits zero or if you get hit with
your shields down. Did I like the game? Not really. Aside from
the fact that 3D games are much harder to learn, the real problem
was that the ship is very hard to control, the photon torpedos are
hard to aim, and you can't really tell if you hit something except
to watch the number of targets remaining. (There are lots of sound
effects and flashing indications, but nothing for an enemy hit.)
The instructions ("survival information") don't help in this regard,
although what you seem to do is rotate the ship with the joystick,
until you see an enemy in the sites, then push the button to fire,
and by the time the photon torpedos get there, he's long gone.
It seemed that while I eventually hit the ships, I have no idea
what I did to hit them - apparently the "computer" locks onto up
to 2 ships at once and beeps when it's got one, but this wasn't
a whole lot of help. I might feel differently with lots of
practice, or with decent instructions. But right now my feeling
is that if you are frustrated by Peter Langston's "stardreck",
you may have trouble with Star Raiders too. And at least stardreck
has comprehensive instructions. I'd say a 3.

Demons to Diamonds. I just remembered this one and it isn't
fresh in my mind. You point in 1D with a paddle and fire straight
up into the screen, where little demons dance across the screen.
If you hit one that's your own color, a diamond appears, zips
across the screen to the edge, sits there for a few seconds and
disappears. You get a few points for the demon, and a lot of
points for the diamond, which is considered your "bonus". But if
you hit a demon of the wrong color, (there are two colors) it turns
into a skull, which sits there and fires vertically at you. Eventually
skulls disappear, but often they appear spontaneously, especially
at the edges. In the 2 player version, one player gets each color
and one goes to the top of the screen. Each can only hit his color
without creating skulls, but all the diamonds created are the first
players color and are fair game for either player. Overall rating:
3 - the game seemed kind of pointless.

(For reference, I'd rate Donkey Kong an 8, Defender a 9, Space
Invaders a 6, Pinball a 6.)

Click to expand...

I just saw on the TV that someone has written a program for the ATARI VCS
called "Custer's Revenge". It seems that in this game the player controls
an image of Custer to dodge around a steady rain of Indian arrows. The
object of the game is to have the graphically excited Custer couple with
a well-endowed smiling Indian maiden. It seems that the REAL Indians are
quite upset since it smacks of video rape (the manufacturer says its not
rape, you see she IS smiling). Also ATARI is upset since they say that
they make a family entertainment system and they don't think it should be
used for this kind of thing.

The bottom line is that ATARI is suing the manufacturer for creating a
cartridge that uses their machine in this obscene fashion. If they win,
it presents some interesting possibilities. How about if AMDAHL sues
IBM for writing obscene code (IMS? MVS?) that runs on their machine.
But I digress, any opinions on this? Anybody out there got a copy of
the game?

Click to expand...

XiaNaphryz said:

And some people didn't believe me when I mentioned the "comfy couch" argument went back a lot longer than they realized.

Click to expand...

Dear James,

Get real. Attack me with your Girly Man Guile, and see
how my Ken Combos Crush you! And once I have left your washed up
Desert Storm Private laying in a ditch, I will show that your
Jungle Fatigue-wearin' Vanilla Ice-hairdoo C-rationed Runt
ain't no warrior in the face of the mighty SAGAT, but that he is
a beginner worse than any wet-behind-the-ears 8 year old who asks
"How'd you shoot that fireball anyways."

Click to expand...

Street Fighter 2 has totally clogged this newsgroup. Contrary
to what some people have said, even the super "parsing" kill
files have little or no effect in filtering out all that garbage.
I'd say 90% of the SF2 postings are by people who never read
this group anyway. (Of course, thats a blatant estimate, so sue me)

Click to expand...

> Sheng Long is not a rumour any more. If you say Sheng Long is
>not a person, you are wrong.

"Sheng Long is not a person."

> According to the <ELECTRONIC GAMING MONTHLY>, Sheng Long is really
>a person. In P.60 of April, 1992, there are three clear pictures which
>decribe how is Sheng Long looks like. These pictures are just the photo of
>the screen the SF2.
> In the article, it said...
> [text deleted]

April issue, huh? Was it possibly dated April 1st?

APRIL FOOL!

Click to expand...

EGM is also notorious,or so I thought for having realy good picture
editors, last april they said there was a cheat to get simon from
castlevania, in the turtles game, they have also done stuff such as
having sonic the hedgehog running down the mined slope in strider...
Dont believe everything you see in that mag.

Click to expand...

Ok this goes out to all you dis-believers.. Sheng Long does exist and I have
found him 4 times. The way I did it was by finishing the game beating
everyone in two rounds and ONLY using the punch button the whole game. Do not
use the kick button at all not even for special moves. I did it with
Ken and Ryu but it was all on the same machine. I dont know if it will work
on all machines but it worked for me. Its pretty cool, Sheng Long is a
little old man but he is really quick. When you do it you get this really
cool congratulations screen and then you fight. He has a cane and is so fast
I didnt rerally know what to do . I have lost each time that I have made
it so I dont know what happens next if you do beat him. But he does exist
at least on the machine that I play on. I hope it works for everyone else
becuase I need help beating Sheng Long..

Good Luck and keep The Faith...

JB

Click to expand...

As I understand (but purely from another post by someone else) Sheng Long is
NOT the translation of "Dragon Punch". The other post said that....

"Haruken" (Ken/Ryu's cry as they uppercut) translates in japanese as
"Dragon Strike" and thats where all this dragon punch business came from.

Now the other post may be wrong, I just state what it said, if it is, I stand
corrected. Personally, I don't think Ken/Ryu's cry translates to anything...its
just a gutteral scream at the time of executing a move..just like the noises made when they throw someone or when they bite the dust...I don't see anyone trying

to figure out what Chun Li is saying when she does the Helicopter Kick so they
can rename it??

Click to expand...

He was in the Pleasure Dome.

Click to expand...

EmCeeGramr said:

Seriously, the Jaguar/3DO/CD32 war is just so tragic and forgotten. It's like the Korean War of consoles.

Click to expand...

Well, after playing SFII TCE for a while, I decided there were
some nice features, such as a "quicker" feel, but I definately don't
like the trend it represents.

The two major trends are 1) gimmicks and 2) low complexity

The 4 new player characters are not as complex as the other characters.
Just think of all the different attacks you have with Guile (NOT special
techniques). Every button produces an absolutely different result. The
programmer that made Guile, did an awesome job.

Now figure Vega. Every button in the air does a kick. Every button
standing does a lunge. Every kick button low does pretty much the same
kick. How about Balrog? He does a 1) hook in the air 2) jabs and uppercuts
on the ground. Well, it must have been *hell* trying to create that
character. And that headbutt just looks plain stupid.

It also seems that Capcom is using more gimmicks, and calling them
"special techniques". The Bison torpedo is just idiotic. If you could
jab him a la Blanka's Roll, it would be more fair.

All this jumping around by Bison and Vega is something that bothers me
too. Most of the grace in Bison's attack is performed by the computer.

BISON REQUIRES NO SKILL AT ALL!!! This is what is sad about TCE. How
long does it take to master Guile? Many quarters. How about Dhalsim?
Many more. Bison? Any joker can come up to the game and be devastating.

He's too fast and too easy.


As well, this whole idea of more, more, more special techniques is silly.

What's next? SF III :

Guile

O-, -O,O-,-O fierce : Guile throws a hand grenade down opponents pants,
and blows off their lower half.

People play the whole game with characters like Bison relying ONLY on the
artifical skill supplied by easy to do, and devastating special attacks.

The four new characters are SAD SAD SAD compared to what they gave us in
the previous 8. Any of Vega, Balrog, and Sagat pale in comparison to the
other characters. The only one with complexity is Bison, but they made
him just too cheesy and powerful for a player to use.

Anywa, I wish they'd come up with a game that's more FUN to play, and
less gimmicky, and better thought out.

- db

Click to expand...

Got a new game at the local (Lincoln, Nebraska) arcade today called
"Mortal Kombat" put out by Midway. The ROMS are dated 7/14/92, so I
would ASSUME it's a new game. <grin>

Anyway, it's basically a '92 version of Pit Fighter. Same type of
digitized graphics, except they are much better in this one and you have
seven or so characters to chose from. The moves seem difficult, but
that's probably because they aren't the same kind as found in SF.
You've got five buttons: High kick, low kick, high punch, low punch and
defend. Yes, a separate button for defense.

Didn't get much chance to play it, but will put up anything I find out
later this weekend. Or perhaps in the SF2 group as the games are of the
same genre...

One nice thing about it- (here anyway) one of the coin slots was giving
four credits for a token while the other was giving one. Go figure.

Oh, also found what has GOT to be a bug. I won a round and all through
the next round my character's head was located about six inches from the
rest of his body. Makes for quite a bit of confusion.

Click to expand...

Mortal Kombat -

Graphics - Pit-Fighter like graphics. Digitized along with some animation
for special power moves. Very nice, although still choppy. Reminds me
of old b/w film footage where the people move too fast.

The background is not digitized, but is still very nice computer graphics.
Look for Santa Claus to fly across the sky on some screens. The screen
background changes after every fight, so you won't get too bored with it.

I love the special death sequences. When I die, I want to see my body
a) fall into a spiked pit
b) electrocuted until the head explodes
c) have its heart pulled out
d) and head separated in at least 2 or 3 different ways

Game Play - I haven't gotten the knack of the special moves yet. They
seem to be a very large part of winning the game.

Aside from the special moves, all of the different characters' basic
moves are very similar. That means learning one character isn't too
different from learning another, aside from special moves.

vs. the computer - The computer likes to get up close and do the hand
to hand combat with ya. If you get too far away, you'll get barraged
with missile/special attacks. I find the hand to hand combat awkward.
It's hard to get an effective attack in after you block. The variety
of basic moves is very limited.

vs. human opponents - Special moves and learning them are the whole game
now! I feel that once you've learned all the moves, each battle will
wind up being a slaughter. It's easy to destroy someone into oblivion
without any hope for your opponent. The basic problem is that you can
attack your opponent whenever they're not blocking. This means that
you've just sent them into the air with an uppercut--- you shoot a
fireball or freeze attack, or some other special attack which hits them
before they can recover from the uppercut. Today was the first day I
played the game. I almost have the timing down so that if I freeze
someone with sub-zero, I can keep them in a freeze. It's worse than
auto-stun combos in SFII because they're easier to do. The implications
of this stupidity in design will become apparent when people learn the
moves and how to use them.

Click to expand...

>Could someone please post a REVIEW of Mortal Kombat? I can't find this one
>in any of my local arcades and would like to know if its like SFII.

Sigh. Unfortunately, Mortal Kombat is just like SFII + Pit Fighter.
(Why the K spelling, Midawy? Why wasn't the last game Total Karnage?)
It looks illiterate. ANYWAY...

Try to imagine higher res digitized images, better than Pit Fighter, put
over SFII. You can choose players, or go single against all other possible
fighters.

I won't go into all the details here, there's not much to this game beyond
the special moves and the Fatality moves (the only original part of this
game, and below the usual Midway/WMS standard of creativity + gore.) There's
not even a lot of blood+guts like Carnage or even NARC. I was hoping
WMS wouldn't fall into this chop-socky genre, unfortunately there's a _lot_
of money to be made. The MK I observed had a 5-deep line to play, earning
maybe 3 coins a minute constantly. Very few people were playing SF2:TCE.
Go figure. Improve the graphics, put in some decent sounds (I liked the
music), and there you go.

I love WMS vids, but I hope this doesn't show a trend...

Click to expand...

Can someone please tell me what this game's all about? Where have
you seen it? Is it an arcade coin-op?

Click to expand...

Mortal Kombat is probably going to be the next fighting game to master until
SF3 comes out. The game is AWESOME!!!All the graphics are digitized not
bitmapped animation liks SF2. Thg game play is juat like sf2. Even some of the
characters' moves are like SF2(fireball for instance).

What makes MK so good is that it has what SF2:CE does not.That eing, digitized
graphics, and lots of violence(I mean TONS of BLOODSHED) some of the scenes
are pure disgusting, also the game has EXCELLENT sound and vocal tracs.

Click to expand...

MAYBE FOR STREET FIGHTER THREE THEY COULD HAVE A 30 SECOND PRACTICE SCREEN
SO THAT NEWBIES COULD REHEARSE THEIR MOVES. IN A TWO PLAYER GAME, THE
PLAYERS COULD FIGHT EACH OTHER FOR 30 SECONDS. THERE WOULD BE NO
ENERGY GAUGE, NO WINNING OR LOSING, AND THEN THE GAME WOULD BEGIN AFTER
THE 30 SECONDS WERE UP. PLAYERS WISHING TO SKIP THE PRACTICE SCREEN COULD
PRESS THEIR START BUTTON TWICE AND GET RIGHT INTO THE GAME.

IT'S EITHER THAT, OR DO LIKE "MORTAL KOMBAT" -- MAKE THE FIRST ENEMY
EASY TO BEAT...THAT WAY, THE FIRST ENEMY BECOMES A PRACTICE FIGHT.
(IN THE FOUR TIMES I PLAYED IT, I GOT MY BUTT KICKED ONLY ONCE...YES,
ONCE...AND THAT WAS BECAUSE I TRIED NOT USING THE BLOCK BUTTON.)

AFTER THAT...THEN LIKE *ALL* OTHER FIGHTING GAMES...IT COULD BE NO HOLDS
BARRED!

THEN, NOT ONLY WOULD THE SCORES BE HIGHER, BUT EVERYONE WOULD GET A FAIR
SHAKE. LET'S FACE IT, CAPCOM WOULD GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY (IF NOT MORE)
SINCE THE GAME WOULD BE THOUGHT OF AS "FAIR". CURRENTLY, THE GAME IS NOT
AND I AM NOW A "MORTAL KOMBAT" FAN. I CAN ONLY MAKE IT TO THE SECOND LEVEL
ON SFII (SPENDING A GRAND TOTAL OF 17.50) BUT I MADE IT TO ROUND THREE ON
MY FOURTH TIME PLAYING (CURRENT SPENDING TO DATE: 2.00). NOW, CAPCOM HAS
LOST ONE PROSPECTIVE PLAYER, AND I'M SURE THAT THEY'VE LOST MANY OTHERS
DUE TO THE UNREASONABLY DIFFICULT FIRST ROUND. (EVEN WITH THE SECRET MOVE
LIST AND STRATEGY GUIDES, THE TIMING STILL CAUSES MY GAME TO BE QUICK.
WHEN I BLOCK, THE COMPUTER FINDS A WAY TO HIT LOW WHEN I BLOCK HIGH, AND
TO HIT HIGH WHEN I BLOCK LOW. MK'S BLOCK BUTTON IS EASIER TO USE!)

IF ANYONE HAS CORRESPONDENCE TO CAPCOM USA, OR IF ANYONE ON THIS BOARD IS
PART OF CAPCOM USA, PLEASE CONSIDER THIS IDEA!

Click to expand...

Mechazawa said:

Nintendope

Click to expand...

Ninrakedough

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Nintwobit

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Nofundo

Click to expand...

This. fucking. guy. This guy right here.

Click to expand...

Okay call me a nintendo loyalist . Call me a dreamer . Call me
whatever you like but , what I saw today on TV was the last straw for me
. When I Square left nintendo I'd say I took it well for a nine year
nintendo loyalist , just a few angry letters to square and nintendo .
When Square made a fighting game , I took it well for a 6 year Square rpg
loyalist . But when I saw that damned orange rat of sony's advertising
for FF7 I just blew up ! I couldn't take it , sony's orange rat and FF7 ?
No I couldn't take it . One day everyone will wake up and see that the
only thing sony has going for it is Square and FF7 . What happens if
Square sees profit elsewhere ? Sony is back to their orange rat . Say
what you like but , Square is going to new lows with Sony . I mean mario
was bad enough , but the orange rat ! Square is no longer the company I
once knew and loved .

Click to expand...

What orange rat are you talking about? PSX kicks ass! It's almost like
Sony and Square were made for each other! Just, compare Resident Evil to
Mario! NO F*$*$ COMPARISON!!! Mario is horrible, boring, and stupid,
imo! PSX is much better! Let's just compare-Suikoden to the hideously
lame and stupid sounding Blunder Project j2!!! PSX!!! PSX!!!

[(~)]PSX[(~)]

PSX RULEZ!!!

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After the success of my last FWAK(1 post I received and 1 I missed.
Maybe that's not a success), I have deiced to enter the FWAK arena with
the obligatory General Leo FWAK.

*******************************************************************************
******The following is a FWAK. There is no basis for anything contained ******
*******in it. Any negative impact on the reader's social life, school or*******
********work performance, or personal hygiene is not the responsibility*******
******************************** of the writer.********************************
*******************************************************************************

How to Get General Leo
Take Strago and your three most powerful fighters to Ebot's Rock (north of
Thantasma). Make sure Hiddon has been defeated. If not, defeat him and come
back. Examine the wall behind where Hiddon was. You will get a message that says
"Sounds hollow???" The coral eating treasure chest comes by and says that if you
feed it more coral, the entrance. After 30 pieces of coral, the chest will show
you a switch. A door will appear in the wall. Follow the new passage. It will
lead to the Gold Dragon. Be careful, because the Gold Dragon is immune to all
elemental spells. After defeating the dragon, continue through the passage. You
will enter a cave with a bed, a table and chairs, a clock, a dresser, and two
treasure chests. Shortly after entering, a voice will say "Who's there?" and Leo
will enter. He says that he is not that easy to kill, and shows a flashback of
him waking up in the cave and putting together a home in it. After the
flashback, Leo says he found a way out, but it is blocked by a large rock and
with the party's help he could move it. If you say yes to his request he will
lead you to a passage blocked by a large rock. Leo and your party will push the
rock out of the way and walk out. The rock was actually Leo's gravestone and the
party is back in Thantasma. If you ask Leo about joining your party he will say
that after his year in the cave, he questions if he wants to return to the life
of a soldier. Leave and come back with Terra, Cyan, and Sabin. They will talk
about the various times that they saw Leo as a soldier and his great
contributions, and Leo will join. Leave and come back with Strago, Relm, Shadow,
and Locke. Go back into Leo's cave and examine the treasure chests. They are
locked, but Locke will pick the locks [try saying that five times fast ]
Inside one is the Paladin Armor and inside the other is the Dream Gem. The Dream
Gem is a relic which randomly recovers any status ailment on the wearer. After a
randomly selected number of turns, ranging from 1-5 for poison to 15-20 for
stone, the wearer's ailment is recovered. Slain characters can even be
resurrected with a 50% chance of full HP recovery and a 10% chance of full HP
and MP recovery. Stone, zombie, and wound will not be recovered if the remaining
members of the party are slain. Then examine the dresser. Relm picks up a
picture, and Strago and Shadow look nervous. It is a picture of Relm with her
mother and father. Shadow takes off his mask and reveals himself to be Relm's
father. After a touching reunification scene, the spirit of Relm's mother
appears. She says she is happy to see the two of them reunited. The Memento
Rings receive a power-up. In addition to protecting against fatal magic attacks,
they raise raise all attributes +5. When Shadow and Relm are in the same party,
they raise all attributes +10. After viewing this scene, Shadow survives at the
end. After saying he won't go on this way, he takes off his ninja suit and
returns to his life as Clyde (with a very large retirement fund from his earlier
adventures). Then he runs to catch up with Relm.

Click to expand...

>Having looked at some of the graphics they've done for the FF6 demo,
>has anyone considered the possibility that perhaps those same graphics
>will be used in the PC version when it is released? I'm not entirely

No, because I seriously doubt Square (or any company) can put a game
that renders like an SGI on a pathetic pc. The closest system to
handling that kind of stuff is the Nintendo 64.

Besides, even if they did change all the graphics, what the hell would
the game be like? It certainly wouldn't be a remake as Square would
take more than a year to do that kind of job, assuming the development
team for the FF5 & 6 project is 20 or less guys (I don't see why
they'd use the entire 100+ FF7 dev team for something like this)

Click to expand...

I think that the flame wars here have gotten WAY out of hand,
and a lot of people are being WAY too defensive of their system.
Every system has advantages, every system has disadvantages. And
every system has good games ... there is NO ONE SUPER SYSTEM that is
"better" than all the others!
My friends and I were in an odd mood the other day, and
discussing different systems, and we decided to put together this list
that shows *every* system has its advantages. Hope you enjoy.

---

Top Ten Reasons Why Final Fantasy III Would Be Better On Genesis

10. The Espers could do cool things with the Sega logo.
9. Strippers in towns.
8. That stupid mine scene would rule with Blast Processing.
7. A blood code would show the battles the way they were meant to be
seen!
6. Strippers in inns.
5. The characters would have "attitude."
4. Sports Talk Kefka makes you feel like you're really face-to-face
with the ultimate evil!
3. Better translation: "Son of a submariner!" becomes "Son of a
WHORE!"; "Loaded for bear"
becomes "Powerful as fuck."
2. Secret characters such as Kappa and Leo available through patented
Lock-On technology!
1. Strippers. 'Nuff said.

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Brad Shoemaker said:

I have a feeling this is not widely known yet, but the Japanese magazine
"Jump" has confirmed that Square is releasing FFVII for PlayStation in
Japan this December. It will cost 5800 yen and will be on two CDs. If
you don't believe me, go to http://www.vidgames.com then go to news. I
don't know what to believe anymore.

Click to expand...

Jump Ish 11 is out !!

I have actually got and read this issue and in the V-Net section, there is a 2
page spread on FFVII !!!

It looks absolutely awesome and IS coming for the PSX....

It has the traditional FF style Menus but has polygon battle scenes !!!
The grafx are awesome and it looks like this will sell LOTS of Playstations !
However, the only two characters I can see are a guy toting a MASSIVE sword
and a girl (probably the healer of the game) and one enemy which is a big guy
with a minigun built into one arm...... hmmm....

Click to expand...

: I agree, this game looks REALLY cool. I forget the names of the girl and
: the guy with the big gun, but the guy with the sword, Cloud (Claude?)
: seems to be a wandering mercenary. Oh, BTW, if anyone is interested the
: translation for the box of text under that shot of Cloud in the Blue bar
: like place:

: Cloud: "Don't get me wrong. I don't care about the avalanche or you all. I
: just want to collect my money and find my next job."

: Looks like a cool game! Now I have an excuse other than Dragon Ball Z
: Super 27 to buy a PSX!

Click to expand...

This must be a joke! A cruel, sick, unfunny joke!

Click to expand...

Our worst nightmare. Petitions, flamebombs, everything, for nothing.
This means that Square will not translate their games.
We will never get those games if some other companies don't
translate them. I smell something burning, Square...

Click to expand...

When will the N64 version be out?

Click to expand...

You know what this means. We will never get those games we've wanted
for SNES. If we are unlucky, we won't get FF7 for N64.
I say, LET'S MAILBOMB SQUARE!

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Sickening. Just sickening. For the PLAYSTATION, of all machines...ugh.

How many of you people out there will buy this? Or even consider it? I know I

wont..

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Ugh, Square must have fools for all of their high ranking personell.
The U64 has already killed the Saturn (I've only heard that Sega has
stopped supporting it until they run out of games, dont ask for
details, I dont know any more that that.), and the Playstation is
next. Even if the U64 is delayed until August, it will be the only
thing people are going to bother to play. The only system that made me
excited because of the screen shots in EGM. Half of the gaming public
has pledged their cash to Nintendo already. Lets do it, either boycott
Square by not buying a Playstation and getting "Phynal Phantasy 7", or
bitch to Square directly! SquareS@aol.com! At least we have another 4
months of joy to come out of them... Maybe it would be better to bitch
at Square of Japan, because they're the fools.

Click to expand...

I agree.Personally I like U64 better.I don't care if anybody calls me a
stupid idiot,or a moron,but Nintendo has something that Sony doesn't.


Nintendo has Square Soft.Sony doesn't.

Click to expand...

>Not for long. Squaresoft announced that they're doing games for all
>platforms now. You had better rethink your position.

This is very untrue. Square and Nintendo have a very long running commitment
to each other. THere is just as much chance of seeing a Square game on another
system as there is seeing a Mario game on another system.


Mike

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Bullshit. Nintendo owns a good portion of Square; they're not going to
start making games for any other platform.

As for the original question, Ultra 64 or Sony Playstation, you really
ought to wait. I own a Playstation, and while there are a few great
titles, most of them are weak. Lot's of cool graphics, lots of cool
sounds, and very little gameplay.

Click to expand...

>Not for long. Squaresoft announced that they're doing games for all
>platforms now. You had better rethink your position.

Um, when was this? Sources? (no, Q-Mann from EGM doesn't count)

Click to expand...

>I agree.Personally I like U64 better.

How? Do you have a U64 console? Have you even _seen_ one in real life,
let alone played anything on it? Do you know exactly what the specs and
capabilities of it are? You've just been brainwashed by Nintendo
publicity.

>I don't care if anybody calls me a
>stupid idiot,or a moron,but Nintendo has something that Sony doesn't.

No, Sony has something Nintendo doesn't - a working, on sale, on time
console system as opposed to a delayed, vapourous constantly changing set
of specs.

Click to expand...

You forgot to mention Rare, Squaresoft, Konami and Capcom! Although no
games have officially been announced for the u64, many previous nintendo
games set standards for the entire industry! I'm talking about Street
Fighter, Donkey Kong Country, Contra 3 and of course Square's awesome line-up
of rpgs (FF series, chrono etc.). I think this will continue on the u64.
It's not unrealistic to expect a tremendous amount of quality softs toward the
end of this year!

Click to expand...

Sure, CD's hold plenty, but
a)No Programmer has actually used not even HALF the availible space
on a CD
b) As games get better, LOAD TIME can get to be upwards of 5-10
MINUTES!!!
c) Ultra 64 cartriges use COMPRESSION, meaning they can hold as
much data as a CD, with NO LOAD TIME!!

Click to expand...

I feel the same way as you do. Unless America takes control of the
video game market again, we will alway be the second class citizen
from Japanese' view. The Ultra 64 is designed in USA. Sony's
playstation is mainly designed by USA. That means USA have the
technology, not Japan. Why there is no American company that can
compete with Ninteno or Sega or even Sony? Do not mention 3DO and
Atari. Their technology make me laugh.

Click to expand...

>Uuh, yeah... Are you blind? You have to look in the right spots. I saw
>basic N64 shots a year ago. Too bad the N64 shots that I see now are
much
>better. The PSX didn't improve over time, but the N64 did. And, BTW,
>Nintendo likes to keep stuff secret, Sony doesn't.

Huh? I'm sorry, although I think the N64 will be a great machine
(when/if it comes out), I have a *very* hard time believing that you
think the most recent pictures outdo previously released ones. The
pictures released hitherto those that can be found on Nintendo's
website were produced from SGI emulations of what the N64 would
supposedly be capable of. Quite frankly, they were amazing. Gamefan
ran a few shots of what Robotech and FFVII would supposedly look like
(let me stress that these shots were supposed to be actual in-game and
not pre-rendered demo shots) and they were light years ahead of Mario,
Body Harvest, Kirby Bowl, Star Wars, etc etc. The quality of the
released shots from the N64 has definitely *not* increased.

Click to expand...

The Sony PSX is selling like hotcakes now, suprising even those who said
the high price point would make for a slow transition to 32-bit. Almost
overnight, it has become the new console of choice in the U.S.

Now, there is no doubt that Nintendo retains a lot of name recognition and
marketing power . . . But Sony's 1-yr.-and then some head start has gotta
hurt. A frequently heard comment from fellow gamers is "I wanted u64, but
I got tired of waiting, bought a PSX and I'm happy with it."

I believe Sony's head start will hurt Nintendo more than Sega's Genesis
did the SNES (when that came out a year after genesis). Let's face it .
. eight months can be a long time to wait when all your friends are
jumping up to 32-bit now, and no amount of SGI-rendered SNES goodness can
completely make up for the disspaointment that U64-bereft Nintendo fans
now face.

What will happen in September? There's a good chance Nintendo will enter
a healthy contest with PSX. A two-way market would hardly be a new thing
. . . On the other hand, the success of PSX has shocked everyone, could it
dominate completely?

As for myself, i will continue to enjoy both my PSx and my SNES and will
await the results.

Click to expand...

Also worth note is that Square and their Final Fantasy series, which has
always been exclusive to Nintendo and one selling point of a Nintendo
system, is now coming to the Playstation. It's quite possible that the
PSX could see a new FF game before the N64 does.

Click to expand...

It isn't only possible, it DOES see an FF game. But not a new one. Not
REALLY new, that is. New graphics, new sound etc. but no completely new
game. Even if it was new, it will never rock the way FF VII does on the
N64.

Click to expand...

You may have seen my post about not buying Nintendos upcoming 16-bit titles,
because I believe they have delayed the ULTRA64 (yes I still call it ULTRA!)
so as not to interfer with the release of these games. Now I have my proof.
Head for the NextGen On-line web page, go to interveiws and select Howard
Lincoln. You will read him saying, "we don't need to release the NU64 now
because of the 16-bit line up we have coming". True this took place after
the April delay was announed, but it still proves my idea. Read it for
yourself and you will see they are not stupid. If you buy 16-bit they have
NO REASON to release the 64 now. He mentioned how, thanks to KI and DKC2,
they could afford financially to wait to release the Ultra.

You are playing right into their plans!!! You MADE it possible for them to
delay the Ultra this long!!! Are you going to make sure they can delay it
all the way to September!!! I have not bought a 16-bit game since DKC. I
can say I didn't help them delay it. Can you?

JUST SAY NO TO 16-BIT!!!!!

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This was a gift from God alright. (in preachiest evangelist voice)"He has come
down from on high and freed us from the shackles of our oppressor Nintendo."

But honestly, it is a good thing. Too many people were blind as bats to the
lies and really the trash Nintendo has been handing us for the past few years.
They actually had most of you believeing that the U64 was be all end all and
that no matter how long they put it off for, you should wait and waste your
fucking time making rediculous (mostly bogus) posts about the incredible SGI
Challenge in a coffee-can U64. I can now make a final decision on what to do
and I know that a good many Japanese gamers can make teir decision now too.
I'm not so hard-up that I gotta buy a PSX right now and I don't think I ever
will, but I can now wait for the M2 or MX in peace and not worry about the
question mark that is/was the U64. To think that it took a company like Square
to do the unthinkable (remember all the money N put into that company?) and
leave and wake the gaming populous. The bells are tolling and the guard is
about to change. I can't honestly predict who will retain the position as
video game conqueror, but I don't think N will have nearly as big a lead as
they have had in past years. I still see those, "wait another millenia for the
U64" posts despite the fact the the new crop of 3D cards and such are boasting
specs above that of what the U64 can do, and to think that only a few short
months seperate their releases. Not to mention that Sega has the Saturn2 on
the way as well as Sony's PSX2 and the 3DO MX in the works. so I guess it's
just time to wait and see what else is good and on the horizon for gamers. I'm
definitely in no hurry. How about all N system owners stand up for themselves
for a change and each send Nintendo email listing out their demands and their
concerns. It beats whimpering over the usenet considering that it really
doesn't appear to affect N's decision any. Oh well, can't wait to see what new
technology is on the way.

Click to expand...

I don't know about you but I am glad that Square left Nintendo for the
playstation. Until now, Nintendo has been the undisputed leader in the
Japanese video game market and frankly I think they were becoming too
self-confident what with the N64 delays and such. This should really
stir them out of their stupor because for the first time they are
actually in danger of losing N64 sales before it even hits the
shelves. Chances are that Sony will not waste any time in bringing FF7
here to the U.S. and that alone will be a major incentive for Nintendo to
translate and publish more of its own Enix and third party RPGS for the U.S.
market. And more importantly, they will have to reexamine the way they
have been treating their third party members if they are to prevent
further defections. No matter how you look at it, Nintendo has gotten a
kick in the butt that it deserved and all is left to see is how they will
respond to it. In the end, it will be the consumers who will benefit the
most.

Click to expand...

I have a theory. Nintendo, oblivious to these newsgroups, assumes that
Killer Instinct is the reason that people want the N64, and ignores
Square's influence, yawning when they threaten to leave. Sony, on the
other hand, has been paying attention to both rgvn, where about 75% of
the posts are about Square games (75% of serious posts, trolls and spams
don't count), as well as rgvsega, where RPGs are rated against Square
games. ("This one is as good as FF3!" "Well, I think it beats FF3!")
(Sorry, Vic, but a lot of folks did judge L:EB by how it stacks up to FF3.)
Square, disgusted by the fact that they would have to pay 10 bucks apiece
more to produce games than action-game companies, is approached by Sony,
who makes them a good offer, hence, FF on PSX. I, for one, don't mind.
The difference in price between carts and Cds may not be that much when
it comes to Kirby, but multi-MB RPGs could cost as much as $100 more on
cartridge. (especially since FF7 is going to take up 2 CDs)

Click to expand...

Crewnh said:

I didn't know Brad liked Dragon Ball Z. I thought that was just Vinny and Ryan. Funny to see him hyped for FFVII and seeing him now call it one of the worst things to happen to jrpgs, haha.

Click to expand...

Why would you do that? said:

It's always fun to go through old Usenet posts. A part of me wishes I were a little older, so I could have joined them.

I love how articulate people were on the Internet back then. As the barrier of entry to the Internet lowered, our language and interpersonal skills did, too.

Click to expand...

Anth0ny said:

ITT: What if GAF was around during the 90s?

Click to expand...

Dave Long said:

Some of us on this board probably posted some of that stuff.

Click to expand...

EmCeeGramr said:

The first post is Brad, the other two aren't.

Click to expand...

Anth0ny said:

ITT: What if GAF was around during the 90s?

Click to expand...

Anth0ny said:

ITT: What if GAF was around during the 90s?

Click to expand...

XiaNaphryz said:

Quakeworld GAF servers all day everyday

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Kaijima said:

LOL this is indeed the pattern. IMO, how it happens is really simple:

People who see themselves as part of a special club (gaming) hate it when their hobby is made less special. In other words, mainstream. That's unhip.

Selling video games always means appealing to a wide number of people. It's a business. Therefore, if you need to have big sales, you can't be a slave to an enthusiast, hardcore niche.

Said niches always begin screaming (ALWAYS) when anything becomes 'too popular'. Their only defense, as a tribal thing, is to move the goal posts. This last generation it was Nintendo with Wii, then smartphone gaming. Wii for example was predicated on selling the true mainstream on the idea that there were still simple, wholesome arcade style games that they remembered from years before. It took off and hardcore gamers had to write the narrative to the effect of low tech graphics and simple gameplay were 'non-games'.

Look at E3 this year; some people actually said 2D Mario was not real Mario because it doesn't show off technology and innovation. One of the foundations of gaming since the NES is now too 'casual', mainstream, and uncool.

So yeah, people (and gamers) never change. There is usually a floating range of gamers between 20-35 years old who seem to fall into the same traps of rationalization every generation.

Click to expand...

EmCeeGramr said:

I think that's enough for today... but is anybody interested in any particular period of time they'd like to see a slice of?

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EmCeeGramr said:

I think that's enough for today... but is anybody interested in any particular period of time they'd like to see a slice of?

Click to expand...

EmCeeGramr said:

I think that's enough for today... but is anybody interested in any particular period of time they'd like to see a slice of?

Click to expand...

Stumpokapow said:

Game Boy launch. Virtual Boy launch. Anything bickering about magazines back in the day. Pre-launch NES impressions.

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Coming this summer to the States is Nintendo's hand-held "Gameboy"
(I don't know if they'll change the name, maybe walkNES??). My brother
brought one back from Japan. It is about 3x5x2 inches in size, has about
a 2-inch square LCD display, and duplicates the controls on the standard
NES pad. It has stereo output (I think only mono on a built in speaker)
through a headphone jack. It takes thin game cartridges that slide into
the top. The game he had (there are only 4 presently available) was a
baseball game which is very similar to one of the regular NES baseball
games. The game complexity and action are very similar to NES but the
display was lacking in my opinion. The main problem is the level of
constrast, making it somewhat difficult to see. In Japan, it costs about
$90 and about $40 for cartridges. I would expect prices to be about half
that here.

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I have a friend who works for the American distributor for
Nintendo and when I was at his place last weekend he showed
one of these things. The only game he had was called Alleyway
Kind of a modified breakout game. My friend was telling me
that these will sell at about $140 U.S and that the game carts
will be about $20 U.S. The whole game is about the size of a
walkman and the cartridge is about 1.5 inches square and about
5/8 inch thick. After playing this thing till the batteries
wore out (my friend did not have the power adapter) I would
say that with the exception of the contrasts on the lcd screen
this was rather well engineered. There is no way to insert a
game with the machine on or to remove it without turning the
thing off, the "joystick" (really a directional pad) worked
well and the game did not have any of those stupid things that
I've seen on most handheld games before. You can also buy
different games so you don't have to play the same one unlike
most handhelds I've seen. I told my friend that if he could
find another one and that the price was right (free for him)
that I would like one as well. I hope he can find one since
there are only 100 of them in the states at this time (these
are the ones nintendo knows about not those that were bought
in Japan). These things are supposed to hit the shelves this
summer

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If you haven't seen them yet, or you don't have them in your area
yet, The Good Guys!, a video/audio chain in Northern California now
has them for sale. They came alot sooner than I suspected, but I
was very surprised when they came in on a shipment.

It comes with Tetris (comments from Atari?) and it retails for $99.
I didn't get a chance to see what games we have and the prices, but
the system is not bad! I am hooked on Tetris, and can play that
game for hours.

If you can't get them in your area, let me know, and I can arrange
to send you one. They are $99 with 6.5% tax, plus shipping (a
couple dollars at best.)

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I've had a few requests for a report on the Gameboy system from
Nintendo. Here it is:


I picked up my Gameboy (GB from now on) at Toys R Us a couple of nights
ago. I also bought the "Super Mario Land" cartridge. The machine itself
cost ninety dollars ($89.99), and the cart was twenty ($19.99).

My first thought when I took it out of the box and actually held it in
my hand was "small... very small." The screen is two inches by two
inches, and the whole thing is about the size of one of the old GE
Walkmen. With the four AA batteries installed, it weighs about the
same as well.

The controls are well arranged, and even though my fingers are considerably
longer than the average thirteen-year-old's (probably the target market),
I had no problems with them. If you've used NES controllers before, you'll
have no problem figuring the controls out. Only the layout is different,
but not markedly so. (The control system -- crossbar, A and B buttons,
run and select buttons -- are _patented_ if you can believe it!)

The cartridges are tiny. Just a little bigger than a matchbook, and they
plug easily into the back of the machine. The power switch is on the top
and makes sure that the cart is properly inserted.

I tried the Tetris cart out first (it comes with the GB -- a definite plus
in my book). The Nintendo logo appears and slides smoothly down the
screen. The GB beeps and a title/copyright screen appears and remains
for an annoyingly long time. Then it goes away and you can play Tetris.

The gameboy version play Tetris much like the arcade (down on the
controller makes the piece move down much more quickly, and you can
stop dropping in the middle, move the piece, and then drop it all
the way down). The two buttons let you rotate the piece clockwise
or counter-clockwise (I only use the one I know). What can I say? It's
Tetris.

On graphics: I am IMPRESSED. Very smooth animation, and quite high
pixel density. The two-tone display certainly doesn't make up for the
lack of color but it helps a lot.

Then to Super Mario Land. I wanted to try something with full screen
scrolling. Plug the cart in, go through the same Nintendo screen and
title/copyright screen. Press run. Small... very small. But playable.
Very playable. It's like Super Mario Brothers, with a few new twists.

I'm not really going to describe the game here, since the focus is mainly
on GB.

Playing SML made me realize one problem with the system, while the
scrolling and animation are very smooth, but there is a little ghosting
that is very noticible when you're running across the screen. I think
I'll get used to the ghosting after playing the game some more. Considering
what the little machine is doing, the ghosting is impressively small.

Final analysis: I love it. It seems pretty solid (engineering wise),
and it's well put together.

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7/20/95
Wow,there is only one post concerning the upcoming system.Holy shit.Why
isnt there any interest in this thing.Personally,I cant wait.Virtual boy
will surprise alot of people.

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Well, I'm interested in the system, although I don't trust ALL the info
available here or in the game rags. It sounds interesting enough, but as
soon as I see one on display and working, I think that will make my final
decision.

Click to expand...

The only way it's going to surprise me is if it sells well.

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Frankly, I'm not surprised. I consider the VBoy as a "so-so" system
whose only purpose is to tide the public over until the Ultra gets here
so we won't all buy Playstations. The graphics are red-and-black LED's,
which might not be so bad, except the latest "shade estimate" was a
measly 8 shades of red, with dithering. Wow, twice the shades of the
Game Boy! Someone commented on the sound as being "8-bit sounding"
and "NES-ish". There is no head tracking, when even a $60 T.V. headset from
Damark has head tracking.

I can't see the Virtual Boy getting all that much response, 3-D or no.
You could get a much better effect by using those red-and-blue glasses
on SNES games. I don't know the resolution, but it better be pretty
darn good to make up for only 8 shades. That's only THREE BIT GRAPHICS!

The VBoy is a flop.

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>Does anyone want to talk about virtual boy or does everyone think it is
>going to suck?! I am going to rent it when it comes out but I think I
>am the ONLY one....
>Any comments?

Hey! It's from Nintendo! 'Nuff Said! When was the last time Nintendo
failed with one of their systems, much less games that they have released.
Nintendo wouldn't put it out if they were not confident in its chances of
making it.

People are all putting it down because of its lack of color. But Nintendo
is not
positioning the product on it's graphical merrit. They are pushing the 3D
experience. I really think that NOBODY should put this system down until
they TRY IT first hand! This is a technology and EXPERIENCE that NONE of
us has tried before. Unless you own the i-Glasses unit or played it at
E3, your opinions are void. Nintendo is selling the unique 3D experience
to its market. And THAT is what we must look at and evaluate.

Sure the color is not there, but there are a high number of shades it is
capable of displaying. The first gen. of games will not display these,
but the Dolphin demo at E3 ensures that the system is capable of
displaying around 256 shades of red.

Hey, after you tried it, then feel free to bash it to hell! But if not,
clam up until you try it first hand.

Now, the question is, when the hell is it coming out? It was SUPPOSED to
be released today......

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Well, I've gotta see one before I do anything. I'm even thinking about
(gasp!) buying one. Well, I'm into portable systems, so this would be a
new toy to add. If it fails, it becomes a "novelty" or collectors item. I
could care less about what anyone else thinks, if I like it, then I'll
buy it.

I figure, I have at least 10 games for each of my portable systems: Game
Boy , Game Gear, Lynx and TurboGrafx Express, yet I only really play one
or two games all the time. If the Virtual Boy has 2 games that I like,
then it's worth it.

In case anyone cares, I don't have a console system, nor have any
immediate plans to buy one. I am considering a SNES to play MK and MKII.

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Hey, I've had a VB from Japan with Mario's Tennis, Teleroboxer, Galactic
Pinball, Panic Bomber and Red Alarm for a fortnight now and it's great.
Although you do really need to play it at a proper height table, other
wise you get a hell of a neck ache.

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I went out to return a Saturn game (Robotica), and the guy at WaldenSoftware
who knows me says, "Look! Virtual Boy". I took about two second to decide
to buy it and all the games. I took it to work, and my office was full
of techies all waiting for their chance to play.

The Tennis game is ok, would be better once linked up.

The "Red Alarm" game is a fighter game, best part is you can
change the perspective (like in Cybermorph or Daytona) to be inside/outside
the cockpit. This game is wireframe and makes you think of Vectrex...

The Pinball game is pretty fun, once you get used to it. It's
pinball with space invaders, asteroids, etc thrown in for bonus points.

The Terleroboxer is Rock-em-Sock-em Robots, 1st person. Or that
Punch Out Game. Same idea...

All in all, alot of fun. I've been switching between the VB and
Astal on the Saturn..

UNFORTUNATELY: No battery adapter, and I talked to the Virtual Boy
line at Nintendo when registering. The date for the thing is "some time
in the future", the VB takes 6 AA's, and last 6-8 hours. I'm pretty sure
once I go through a few sets of batteries, this thing will be put away
until the battery adapter comes out...

Plus, when are game manufacturers going to take a hint, and make it
an option to turn off the music. Playing the tennis game is ok, but
the blip-blip music really sucks, and you wish you could turn it off...

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Speaking of the VB AC adapter...when is it coming out? I asked one of
the EB Salesdroids and he said next week. The Babbages salesdroid didn't
know. The VB seems like a nifty gimmicky high tech toy to have, but I'm
not going to even think about buying it until the AC adapter comes out.
Unless....does anyone have the PS specs on the VB? If you've got
the wattage etc, you could probably buy a compatible PS at Radio Shack
or something. Then again, does the VB use a special connector for the PS?

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Hey all,

I just bought a VB today along with Red Alarm (since I hear so many
great things about it and read so many miserable review about it!

Let's just say that this system is much better than the general
public's opinion. The unit itself seems like a very "solid" unit and
if you have it setup right, you won't get cramps from you neck/back and
such. My advice is to put the controller BEHIND the VB when you play
it, it feels much more comfortable that way. The screen is very very
comfortable, and I wear glasses too. There are multiple switches to
adjust for different viewings and such. All in all, I am very
impressed with the unit's overall quality.

Onto the big question, is Red and Black really worth it in light of the
relatively expensive price tag and the 3D effects. I think so. The 3D
effects is very very noticeable and visually impressive. While
everything is in red, you won't mind this when you start playing
because you are totally immerse into the environment. The controller
is one of the most wonderful controller I have ever used, it is so
comfortable and convenient that you won't really notice your back pain
The graphics are all in high resolution, so you won't have to worry
about blurry graphics or even low res. stuff.

Onto the games, I initially did not like Mario Tennis. It is not
really a sim type game, it is more akin to Super Tennis or a plethora
of other arcade type tennis games (which is nothing more than a
glorified Pong game). I really hope that NIntendo would pull their bud
out of the cutesy type pack-ins (guess I have to buy their KI to change
my opinion! While the graphics are cute and all, the action do heat
up a bit and the AI is actually pretty decent on the harder levels. I
like it more and more, but, I think the VB can do so much better with
this sort of games (sport titles with low, 3D perspectives). Overall,
I don't think this is the best VB title released (even though every
magazine tends to think so). It is good, but with lots of room to
improve. I will give it a 6/10 because it has a lot of little things
to keep you interested.

Now, Red Alarm is cool. It has received some atrocious ratings from
magazines such as Next Generation. Let's just say that while their
reveiws are valid to some degree, they really have overlook the game as
a whole. Yes, it has the old vector graphics to generate the 3D
effects and yes, sometimes, you will feel totally loss and can be hard
to tell where you are or where you are going. But, these points can
and will be remedied when you play it a few more times. This game is
really fun, and the 3D go anywhere you want (within a corridor though)
is super. But, I like the control aspect the most (and this directly
attributes to the excellent control pad layout). YOu can speed up,
slow down, reverse, powerslide in 4 directions (up down left right),
change direction, change direction Fast, fire (of course!), change view
points (4 I think) and you can do all these relatively fast and
responsive. I love it when the enemies fire at me, I have the ability
to pull a hard left (or right) to evade it, OR put in reverse and turn
a bit to see the laser fly away right in front of me! All in all,
awesome controls. The game itself is somewhat reminincent of Star Fox,
but, the graphics has a lot of detail to it. The sound is excellent as
well, and overall, I will give it a 8.5/10! I think this is definitely
one of the best VB games and really show off its capabilities in the 3D
department. One of the best feature in the game is that you can replay
the entire level once you finish (or die) and you can change your view
point on the fly (zoom, twist, slide, etc) and it is very very
3dimensional. I like it a lot.

Overall, I might have returned the system had I only have Mario Tennis
to play with, but, with Red Alarm, I think I am going to keep it. I
guess the only concerns I have is the number of games that are going to
be released. I will trust Nintendo on this one as all of their
products are well supported (i still remember the GameBoy 5 games only
days). The sound is not too hot either. While the sound FX is
generally good, the music kinda sucks (well, I guess I am spoiled by
all the CD games). But, the good points overwhelm the bad and I hope
that the VB will succeed.

Steve

PS To all the people who say that Nintendo is stupid to compete
against Saturn/PSX with VB, well, I really don't think that Nintendo is
aiming at the same market as the next generation consoles. While VB is
32 bit and all, I think it's main focus is to generate something
entirely new and tries to present a viable alternative to all the game
players who are looking for something totally different. I think above
all, these several games are fun and I hope that people would at least
try them before voicing their opinions. My only wish is that Nintendo
would release a Virtual Color Boy in 5 years and that it is downwardly
compatible to the current VB. If this thing is in color, it will the
best system ever!

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VB is pretty good, not fantastic.
VB is not very portable. The hardest thing is finding a comfortable
way to view it. I like laying on my back and just letting it rest
on my face.
Don't believe Game Players or Next Gen. I think Red Alarm is the best.
Game Players gives high originality points to Missile Command
and Galaxian for game boy! Nostalgia is original?
Magazines just want to sell magazines and advertisements.
I can't STAND Game Players stupid smirking faces on their reviews.
Oh, yeah, like I'm a teenage girl who thinks their reviewers are SOOOO
cute and want to get into their pants.

VB is not for everybody. If I didn't already have a Playstation
I would save my money for it instead.
But Blockbuster supposedly rents VB. Try before you buy.

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I totally agree with you, ever since I saw the Virtual Boy at E3, I
will just amazed by what it can accomplish!! The people who flame it
and think the Saturn or PSX is an alternative is wrong, they are
comparing two systems that are meant for different uses. What Virtual
Boy's primary function is to produce excellent 3D games.. not in the
form of 3D render graphics, (like ridge racer) but 3D meaning the
sense of depth, the key word is DEPTH cause that is what blows you
away....I saw a grand prix racing game for the VB at E3 and I must say
that it is great with the depth, I mean you could really tell when the
turn is coming, and you can see how far away everything is..

The Virtual Boy can not be critisized until you have seen its full
potential, and I guarentee that you will like it...

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>I've noticed that virtually everybody seems to be convinced that EGM is
>biased against their particular system....

That's because they are. B-) I'm convinced there's a spinner in the EGM
offices with the different systems listed on it. Every month, they spin it
twice -- once to determine which company to kiss-up to, and once to determine
which company to bash.

Watch, after the Playstation is released, EGM will start knocking it in a
month or three as the M2 and the Ultra64 become the next "unreleased but hot
properties"...

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Combichristoffersen said:

Anything related to the first Silent Hill in there? Also, anything related to arguing over Sonic 1 and 2 would be golden.

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Linkzg said:

If possible, reactions to Raiden in MGS2. Oh, and Shenmue's release. I never saw how polarizing it was back in the day.

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EmCeeGramr said:

[On Virtual Boy]
But Nintendo is not positioning the product on it's graphical merrit. They are pushing the 3D
experience. I really think that NOBODY should put this system down until
they TRY IT first hand! This is a technology and EXPERIENCE that NONE of
us has tried before. Unless you own the i-Glasses unit or played it at
E3, your opinions are void. Nintendo is selling the unique 3D experience
to its market. And THAT is what we must look at and evaluate.

Click to expand...