MS would be idiots to make Live free or make Kinect an optional peripheral buy again like this gen.

Xbox Live is a non-factor as Sony put the multi-player behind the paywall as well.

Then Sony priced their cam at 60 dollars alone. Which puts the ONE only 40 dollars more than the XB1. This is not including the fact, that if you wanted to buy a Move controllers on top of this scenario.

MS was smart to improve and include improved Kinect capabilities as a part of the consoles feature set as a whole.

The really problem for MS is how to approach the whole digital vs. Physical media thing.

If they didn't have restrictions to the console, then the average gamer could rent a game at Redbox, download it onto the console, return the game, and log on to play it forever in the cloud.

If you never had to go online ever then I could see the whole modding/ban hammer situation that the 360 faced returning. This time around the ban hammer REALLY sucks as we are now reading.

My personal opinion, but if Micrsoft want to truly solve this issue and NOBODY is currently saying this.

All MS has to do is make the cool features of downloading the physical game to the cloud OPTIONAL.

This means if you want to all of the Cloud benefits like sharing with 10 people etc. Then that's your option to tie the game to your profile at that point. You would then fall under those applicable restrictions.

If not, then you should be able to play you Xbox One games as normal and share, trade etc at will to ANY retailer etc.

This would ease people into the digital world, while preventingthe potential of gamers to face their console locking them away from their physical game that they just bought that day, because their internet was down for a few days.

This also would allow the Navy to play their games offline as was recently brought up.

But, who knows maybe MS has something else up their sleeve to resolve this issue. They will need it come launch.

DEADEVIL said:

My personal opinion, but if Micrsoft want to truly solve this issue and NOBODY is currently saying this.

All MS has to do is make the cool features of downloading the physical game to the cloud OPTIONAL.

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Everybody is saying this.

Biggest problem is that MS don't think it needs fixing, they think its just fine as is, and us silly billys just don't get it.

I'm sure they'll slog it out for the first 12 months, hoping people will come round to their way of thinking. And then maybe roll out a subscription model to try and persuade us with a lower price to entry (even though overall ownership cost is higher)

All MS has to do is make the cool features of downloading the physical game to the cloud OPTIONAL.

This means if you want to all of the Cloud benefits like sharing with 10 people etc. Then that's your option to tie the game to your profile at that point. You would then fall under those applicable restrictions.

If not, then you should be able to play you Xbox One games as normal and share, trade etc at will to ANY retailer etc.

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Agree - this would be my perfect setup. For games I'm keeping, I'd register to have instant access. For games I might trade in, I'd use the disc. It is frustrating that neither Sony or MS do this, they've both gone for either extreme - physical only or digital only). Finger crossed Sony have reasonable digital pricing, if I can buy from PSN at a similar price to buying a physical disc online that'll be enough for me

Sell 2 versions of the games, one at standard next gen price with no xbone restrictions (play requires disc at all times, doesn't appear in players cloud game list), one discounted ( say $15?) fully xboned. Be interesting to compare sales.

The key take away here is that if MS gives people a choice as to how to use their disks, they'll likely make far faster progress towards their envisioned online only future than if they mandate it. I can see a great many people voluntarily choosing to add games to their libraries to take advantage of the family sharing features and convenience of no disk swapping. But to completely dismiss those who can't adhere to the 24 hour check in policy is anti consumer and will result in the PR debacle continuing up to and indeed after the console launch.

I'm less inclined to think they'll budge on the Kinect front and that part concerns me less personally. Once the price drops $100 and they address the common sense privacy concerns, I think Kinect functionality will be a boon rather than a negative towards the consoles success.

I agree with a lot of these, but disagree with a few. In particular, I disagree with his solution for getting rid of multiplayer pay-walls. Servers DO cost money, and better service will require at least a little income to pay for those servers.

Here's how I'd handle it.

I would include a free multiplayer option, but it'd be ad supported, and somewhat more limited. Rather than getting endless multiplayer every month, players would get a set number of minutes/hours they could use. Say, six-eight hours per month.

This would mainly be a means to allow those uninterested, or inactive in multiplayer, to get a taste. It'd also act as a token way to allow low-income players to have some multiplayer, during financially difficult times.

I would also consider, a possible micro transaction system to purchase extra hours. Say $.25 an hour.

Basically, I'd just add some options. I don't mind a company requiring people to pay for a service, but not everyone uses these services the same way. So a plan that works for one person, might be overkill for someone else. This is particularly true for gamers whom primarily play single player titles, and whom only occasionally dabble in online multiplayer.

DEADEVIL said:

Then Sony priced their cam at 60 dollars alone. Which puts the ONE only 40 dollars more than the XB1. This is not including the fact, that if you wanted to buy a Move controllers on top of this scenario.

MS was smart to improve and include improved Kinect capabilities as a part of the consoles feature set as a whole.

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Why should anyone be forced to buy the PS4 camera? After two shows, Microsoft has shown no gameplay benefits to using this new Kinect. It is at best an optional/supplemental experience. Personally more then DRM, more then the price, it's the stupid fact that the XOne is FORCED to have Kinect connected is the biggest turn off to me.

I don't get Gaf sometimes. Even if Microsoft changes all their stupid policies and release a Xbone offline, with used games and all that, no kinect, it's still a gimped hardware with only 5gb of slow memory for games and a worse GPU.

They cannot change those two, so no matter how much they would try to play nice, they would still end up with the inferior product.

Sometimes people talk like their policies are the "only thing" wrong with the system, when clearly it's not. They cannot fix some of their design choices.

BlazingDarkness said:

They should do this.
Disc in the tray = you can play the console offline for as long as you like.
But if there is no disc in the tray for the software you're playing then the console needs to be online.
I'd say that's the best way to balance the digital content and retail content sides of the coin.

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In a way yes, but if the disc is installed to the console one person could play online disc-less and another person could use the same disc offline.

seattle6418 said:

I don't get Gaf sometimes. Even if Microsoft changes all their stupid policies and release a Xbone offline, with used games and all that, no kinect, it's still a gimped hardware with only 5gb of slow memory for games and a worse GPU.

They cannot change those two, so no matter how much they would try to play nice, they would still end up with the inferior product.

Sometimes people talk like their policies are the "only thing" wrong with the system, when clearly it's not. They cannot fix some of their design choices.

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No one cares anymore when almost all X1 games are aiming at 1080p and 60fps.

Oni Jazar said:

Why should anyone be forced to buy the PS4 camera? After two shows, Microsoft has shown no gameplay benefits to using this new Kinect. It is at best an optional/supplemental experience. Personally more then DRM, more then the price, it's the stupid fact that the XOne is FORCED to have Kinect connected is the biggest turn off to me.

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What's the biggest turn off to you has been one of the biggest selling points for the 360 in the last two years, selling 10 milion per year.

But, that was last gen, it's a no-brainer to include it with X1 this for the coming gen.

The reveal showed how the Kinect features were instrumental with everything MS is trying to do this time around.

It would be dumb to promote that you can turn on/off the console,changing the channel, switching between games and TV, Skype while playing games. etc. just to turn around and say that only some people will be able to use this. Now run out and pay for another Kinect.

Instead it's all inclusive from jump so devs can implement if they want or not at all. MS can launch with a huge Kinect title like Kinect Sports and now EVERYONE can play it.

In terms of actual gameplay I think the whole scan you into the game like K. Sports is doing is going could be big if it really works compared to the old ways of doing it.

Either way, Kinect isn't a singular entity anymore and is now a part of the console like the Wii Sensor.

If Microsoft can’t lower the price of its console, it should eliminate the Xbox Live Gold subscription fee. It’s an embarrassment.

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MS Execs to Paul Thurrott

M3d10n said:

Of course it does: each disc contains an unique watermark that acts as a CD-Key. Those surely cannot be reproduced by your usual BD-ROM burner.

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What makes you so sure? Plain text strings are used for CD-keys included in boxed games now, and that seems to be sufficient. A CD-key stored on a disc could be significantly longer, since no one has to manually type it in, so it would be even more resistant to brute-force attacks. So why require something more specialized?

Bleepey said:

In a way yes, but if the disc is installed to the console one person could play online disc-less and another person could use the same disc offline.

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With existing Steam policies, if I gave you my password, you could recover my account on your computer, go offline, and have access to all my games. After you go offline, I log back in and have access to play my games online.

It seems to work alright for them.

tokkun said:

It seems to work alright for them.

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This is a good point.

I've worked with DRM in some form or another for most of my career, and the goal was always to minimize exploits and piracy, not to guarantee perfect digital rights at all times. This is because no scheme is perfect that doesn't also shit on your paying customers, so you relax the rules a little bit to provide your customer base some latitude. That means you allow multiple devices, sometimes simultaneously because there are perfectly valid customer scenarios where you need that.

Either MS or MS in league with content producers have gone over the deep end when it comes to how tight that leash can get. They've cast such a wide and restrictive net that they've caught themselves not only a decent load of would be pirates or cheapskates but also a fuckton of previously happy Xbox customers that have done nothing wrong.