FF is 2013, right? PS3 easily beats that list.
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Media Create Sales: Week 38, 2013 (Sep 16 - Sep 22)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
FF is 2013, right? PS3 easily beats that list.
Metallix87
Member
Wii U has games coming that could potentially sell systems. Vita does not. Wii U has major first party support coming. Vita does not.
Again, it all goes back to Sony not caring enough to try to fix things. Vita is a solid handheld being doomed by Sony's mismanagement.
I thought the latest was that the supposed December date was fake, but that could be old info.
Off the top of my head it has A Link Between Worlds, Mario Golf, Yoshi's Island 3, Super Smash Bros, Theatrhythm Curtain Call, DQ Monsters 2, Layton 7, Hero Bank and Game Center CX-3.
Magicpaint
Member
I keep hearing this but what did Sony do specifically with the PSP that they're failing to do this time with the Vita currently? The Vita is suffering more from the vastly different market conditions of its release, the lessened strength of the Playstation brand as opposed to when the PSP was launched and the loss of MH (in Japan) than it is from Sony's so called 'neglect'.
Nice to see Kuma Tomo chugging along nicely. Can't wait to hear for the sequel (and knowing Namco Bandai it WON'T be on iOS/Android).
Speaking of Namco Bandai and regarding LIST WARZ, have people forgotten Super Smash Bros. on 3DS as well as the aforementioned DQM2, Curtain Call (I can't spell the T word!) plus all kinds of elf boys, green dinosaurs, fat plumbers and
!
Edit: I was beaten to the Smash Bros. Damn iOS device!
Speaking of Namco Bandai and regarding LIST WARZ, have people forgotten Super Smash Bros. on 3DS as well as the aforementioned DQM2, Curtain Call (I can't spell the T word!) plus all kinds of elf boys, green dinosaurs, fat plumbers and
pink marshmallows
Edit: I was beaten to the Smash Bros. Damn iOS device!
shinra-bansho
Member
What's the PS3 got right now for 2013?
Off the top of my head Dark Souls II, Yakuza: Ishin, other stuff that was announced that's cross-gen with PS4 that I don't remember.
Off the top of my head Dark Souls II, Yakuza: Ishin, other stuff that was announced that's cross-gen with PS4 that I don't remember.
Opinions and all, I think the Vita lineup is (probably) the best because it has a good amount of games, the majority announced in these last few months and many of them coming in Q1/Q2. The list is missing games from other developers, but I didn't want to start a list war.
And don't you mean that the WiiU list is a literal retread of the 2013 list? Because it does have the same exact games as the ones people have been listing since January.
And I would say Freedom Wars, Over My Dead Body 2, Gravity Rush 2 and Soul Sacrifice Delta can be considered major Sony support. The only thing bigger that they have is Gran Turismo.
well, they didn't seal any deal for MH with capcom, basically.
considering the different market situations you mentioned, this is the biggest difference in mismanagement between PSP and Vita (because even PSP was literally turned down-upside by MH back in the days)
Plus, I've the impression that with Vita Sony is pushing too much into the PS3/4 integrations (cannibalizing the weakest link of the chain, so Vita)
Samurai Warriors 4, Sengoku Basara 3, Project Diva F2, Gundam Extreme Versus Full Boost, MGSV off the top of my head for bigger titles.
KillerMan91
Member
Yeah. They are using same strategy as with PSP but with the problems you listed. Sure they could put more resources to develop Vita games but that would be away from PS4 and we know which one is more important to Sony. It kinda feels that they launched Vita out of obligation. The day MH4 went 3DS exclusive I knew that Sony really doesn't care about Vita that much.
Opinions and all, I think the Vita lineup is (probably) the best because it has a good amount of games, the majority announced in these last few months and many of them coming in Q1/Q2. The list is missing games from other developers, but I didn't want to start a list war.
And don't you mean that the WiiU list is a literal retread of the 2013 list? Because it does have the same exact games as the ones people have been listing since January.
I just don't see any title on that list that could really move the needle. It has better quantity than Wii U, sure, but as far as big sellers go that list seems pretty limp.
And as others have stated better than me, PS3 and 3DS easily beat that (thanks to the poster who posted the 3DS list)
yeah I agree. it's just the lack of success that's making it stand out
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Definitely interested in the bold titles. Vita Tv better be here by next year.
You are too fixated on wanting a potential huge game that will change everything.
Vita doesn't need that game to start selling 25k weekly. It needs games released each week and yes, I think it needs VitaTV. The former is getting there if the recent trend of announcements continues and the latter is coming in November.
But hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. We'll see in a few months.
Magicpaint
Member
Definitely. While it probably won't cover up the obvious loss of Monster Hunter and Square-Enix's less emphasis on dedicated handheld support this go around, they're at least trying which is more than people seem to want to give them credit for. I'm just not seeing what much more they can do given the strengths of their first party studios. Games like The Last of Us, Killzone and Uncharted are simply better served on consoles, and the latter two have already graced the Vita in some form.
The Vita isn't their priority but they do care. MH was a big loss no doubt, but it's erroneous to think they had it in their grip when it's a third party franchise in the first place. PS3 lost a lot of exclusives the PS2 had, but we didn't attribute those loses to Sony not caring about the PS3. Sometimes the market trends just take over, we can see the effects even on the 3DS.
Regarding Smash, would it have been a better idea to just show the Wii U version at its reveal? They could have been working on the 3DS version like they have been doing, but only make the Wii U version known. The Wii U version would retail for a year or two, and then, once they believe they've squeezed as much adoption as they can, they would reveal the 3DS version.
Some of my friends have been saying that they are holding out for the 3DS version first. I've also seen similar opinions around here, too. The 3DS version cannibalizing the Wii U one is really becoming a serious possibility.
Haha, the 3DS is really what is killing the Wii U isn't it?
Some of my friends have been saying that they are holding out for the 3DS version first. I've also seen similar opinions around here, too. The 3DS version cannibalizing the Wii U one is really becoming a serious possibility.
Haha, the 3DS is really what is killing the Wii U isn't it?
Yeah let's just agree to disagree. Maybe if Vita TV is a smash, but that lineup leading to 25k weekly sales strikes me as extremely unlikely (and for the record, Wii U sales reaching that level are just as unlikely).
Nintendo should at least postpone 3DS version of Smash.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No its Nintendo and their bad decisions. Smash would of been a massive system seller for WiiU but now theres a 3DS option.
Magicpaint
Member
Agreed. The 3DS version being handled concurrently with the WiiU version is really an odd strategic decision.
That said the WiiU's problems are a bit more fundamental than the existence of a 3DS Smash.
Smash on the 3DS's slide pad would be challenging I think, I would figure that it will be bad for competition, while the Wii U's version would allow pro controller and I'm sure gamecube through Wiimote adapters would work (uses the classic controller configuration) Honestly I don't really think it matters which game people buy, but I would love if cross play was an option at some point.
Metallix87
Member
Sony got lucky with the PSP, that's all. It would've suffered the same fate as the Vita if third parties hadn't cone along and put a massive quantity of content on it. Today, though, things have changed. 3DS is powerful enough to handle those games, and Nintendo actually supports their platform. Sony can't sit back again and just hope for a miracle. They need to be proactive, and they need to utilize their top developers on the platform, to show consumers and publishers that Vita is more than a PS4 controller. That's why I keep saying Sony has to do more. It's up to them to prove their system is a must-have, much like it's up to Nintendo to do the same for Wii U. The difference? Nintendo seems to get it, even if it's taking them a long time to fix the matter. Sony seems oblivious to the problems, and it almost seems like they just don't care enough to help the Vita out.
Identifying the reasons for Vita's struggles seem very challenging for most because it's such a hardcore focused device that very few people like to find fault with it.
Nobody wants to blame the hardware, but few want to blame the software, either. Many people want to argue that the hardware is amazing and the lineup is great, but one of those things has to be untrue for the system to be selling like it is. From an objective perspective of course; you're perfectly allowed to subjectively love the Virtua Boy's lineup, if you so desire.
In these sorts of situations, people tend to place all the blame on advertising, because it allows the product to escape unscathed; it isn't the system or the game's fault, it's just that Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft) aren't properly communicating how amazing and awesome this system and its games are. I don't mean to suggest advertising never matters at all, but people disproportionately rely on this explanation because it allows them to avoid blaming the system. In the case of Vita, the sales have been so terrible that something else must be going on.
Nobody wants to blame the hardware, but few want to blame the software, either. Many people want to argue that the hardware is amazing and the lineup is great, but one of those things has to be untrue for the system to be selling like it is. From an objective perspective of course; you're perfectly allowed to subjectively love the Virtua Boy's lineup, if you so desire.
In these sorts of situations, people tend to place all the blame on advertising, because it allows the product to escape unscathed; it isn't the system or the game's fault, it's just that Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft) aren't properly communicating how amazing and awesome this system and its games are. I don't mean to suggest advertising never matters at all, but people disproportionately rely on this explanation because it allows them to avoid blaming the system. In the case of Vita, the sales have been so terrible that something else must be going on.
KillerMan91
Member
After the launch hype of PSP died off imo it was the MH that kept the platform healthy and brought a lot of other publishers and games to the platform. Sure the same happened to PS3 but I don't see any single game as important for PS3 in any territory as MH was to PSP in Japan. Its whole ecosystem was build around the game. They should have tried to keep it no matter the costs. Sure the market trends are also major reason and nothing could have saved Vita in west as even with huge support from Nintendo 3DS is barely pulling decent numbers.
I'm going to be so pissed off if that happens. But honestly it'd be for the best.
Metallix87
Member
As I said, it's not advertising (or, at least, not "just" advertising), it's Sony's lineup being poorly focused for the handheld demographics, and Sony refusing to put their top teams to work on Vita content.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Just like how Nintendo prioritises their handheld department Sony prioritises their home console department.
Just goes to show how hard it is to support two different systems with quality software lineups. Makes sense why Microsoft doesn't want to get into the dedicated handheld sector.
Final Fantasy is still a strong name but it's not as strong as you think it is. And that's for the new entries and not a 10 yr old port. The strong name of Final Fantasy doesn't do much for Lighting Returns.
and during a slow season when 3DS is selling near it's baseline 45K. then maybe.
Isn't PS3 not backward compatible? PS4 is also gonna be one. Personally I think it would be a factor in Japan.
So in your option, Vita probably has the best (announced) line up of all consoles for next year. What's so funny about it if it's only your opinion?
Isn't it already here for this year? VITA has 50K titles released on a regular base and occasionally 150-200K ones.
Metallix87
Member
Yeah, but Nintendo never ignores their consoles right out of the gates. Even with Wii U, Nintendo quickly moved to announce a bunch of big, system-selling titles for the system, despite being pretty unprepared for the transition.
Meanwhile, Sony was outsourcing high profile exclusives to Nihilistic.
I would say Nintendo seems pretty evenhanded with development priority. Their top teams make both handheld and console games these days, they just tend to refocus on each early in it's lifecycle. Right now it seems Wii U is getting a lot more internal attention than 3DS.
sörine;83784511 said:
Agree. I think sometimes it looks like Nintendo focuses on handhelds because it's just such a contrast to Sony, but now that 3DS is relatively established I think you will see more Wii U focus.
I think as a whole yes.
That they're unifying the platforms' libraries is one of the most painful parts.
NSMB2 -> NSMBU
SM3DL -> SM3DW
MK7 -> MK8
SSB 3DS/SSB WiiU
Zelda OoT Remake -> Zelda WW Remake
Mario Party: Island Tour -> Wii Party U
The system's biggest titles are all games that you can get a similar replacement product for on 3DS.
They even bothered to go port Donkey Kong Returns to 3DS in the lead up to the new game, but at least that was something most people already played on Wii.
The 3DS's exclusive first party support currently consists of games like Pokemon and Animal Crossing. The Wii U primarily has faded casual series, Pikmin 3, and niche core titles like X and Bayonetta 2.
So true. Personally, I wouldn't blame the hardware do much (even though it was a factor, 3DS had shown that $250 handhelds are not a great idea), but even if you adore Vita's lineup it's undeniable that it severely lacks an appealing exclusive library, and that as much as indie games are awesome, they are not selling a system that was conceived as a "console experience on the go".
I think 'it's the software' has been screamed from the rooftops since the device launched. No matter how many games with middling appeal there are, people want those big franchises that will sell the system (even though they're all exclusive to the 3DS). The reception of KZ: M / Uncharted / WipEout etc.. in the west has me convinced that there's literally nothing Sony could put on the system that would sell the device to people outside of the niche that already have one, or intend to buy one.
It isn't just the software though. It's the whole package. It simply doesn't appeal to the masses, at all. The device has pretty much everything going against it, and it's a fucking miracle that it's lived this long.
This is a really good post and I think very true. It's also very applicable to Wii U I'd say which tended to get similar messaging/advertising focus as the reasoning for it's bad performance in the early going. Not that they aren't a problem too though.
Magicpaint
Member
Luck played a bit of a role for the PSP I agree, but the solution isn't as simple as putting their top teams on Vita. Their top teams are AAA teams - teams that work with insanely high budgets + have a strong focus on cinematic/visuals - these are titles that must sell in the multi-millions to justify being green-lit, and is why many of their top teams stick to consoles because that's the proven ground for such titles. This is a fundamental difference from the strengths of Nintendo's top teams and the nature of their franchises which lend themselves better to a portable environment. Sony is instead focusing their development on quirkier titles, proven genre for the portable environment (hunting action for example) and a strong indie focus. It's about the best they can do given their current resources, imo.
Aren't the Mario Party 9 people doing Mario Party 3DS? Thought Wii Party U is being handled by a different dev team.
metalslimer
Member
Sorry vitas lineup is not even remotely close to being good enough to be classified as best nei year unless talking about from a list of games you want to play and then I don't really see the relevance. Some people think it had the best lineup last year. Zelda and dragon quest will outsell everything else on vita in q1 combined
Yes, I totally agree. It's very easy to track Nintendo's internal focus going back from GC to DS to Wii to 3DS to now Wii U. Usually each gets a lot of 1st party effort it's first several years and then Nintendo's teams move on to the next hardware and let the previous one coast on mainly 3rd party and catalog games.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Why can't it be something other than any of the things you listed? When people blame advertising they're missing the bigger point, the Vita was a system that never had a chance.
The PSP was the 2nd place handheld in Japan and worldwide. The only real difference between the Vita and the PSP is that its now the 3rd place handheld device. The 3DS is 2nd place and mobile has taken over as the primary "handheld" device. The Vita took a higher price point on both hardware and the cost of games which made it an even worse proposition for the market.
Basically the market that the Vita was going for was already gone and taken up by 2 different things. I feel the same way about the Wii U. Nintendo didn't beat next gen to the punch, they were 7 years late to last gen.
Sorry I lost count of Mario Parties and thought 9 was the 3DS game.
My intention with that comparison was that instead of buying a Wii U for Wii Party U, you could wait one month and pick up Mario Party: Island Tour instead.
I don't think that N priorities handheld, honestly. The priority comes just from the timings of Hardware releases.
Btw, I agree at least partially with Nirolak's Wii U-3DS analysis and I absolutely agree with Opiate's Vita analysis.
metalslimer
Member
Nintendo until recently prioritized their big teams on console not handheld development
Gonzo The Great
Banned
sörine;83785111 said:
I haven't seen a Wii U ad on TV since 2012, so it's definitely a factor. Hell, I don't think I've ever seen a Vita ad on TV at all, although I have seen one in the movie theater a few times.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't think what your saying is really contradicting what Opiate's saying, which is basically that products fail because they're simply not a good product for the wider market.
Market validation is probably one of the most fundamentally important things about launching a product/venture, and it really seems like both of these currently ailing products were sorely lacking in that regard.
In the US Pikmin 3 got a lot of commercials on the stations like Cartoon Network and the Disney Channel. Vita had a ton of TV ads with Call of Duty and MLB the Show.
That really changed a decade ago when Iwata reorganized their internal teams. DS was the first handheld we saw Nintendo unify their internal development around entirely, before that though it was more delineated between EAD on consoles and what's now SPD on Game Boy.