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Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on

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M

Maledict

Member
Simply Sarah said:
And has been talking up how the HOU design lead spent some of his childhood in Egypt despite there not being anything truly Egyptian about the set so far.
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They have pyramids, cartouches, big statues, lots of sand, hieroglyphs and now plagues of locusts and an apocalypse. They mummify the dead and even had a cleopatra lookalike. I struggle to think of many ancient Egyptian themes they *havent* riffed on in this expansion?

(Whereas kaladesh simply wasn't Indian, at all. The entire setting was basically steampunk with darker skin. India has some of the most spectacular culture in human history, it was the birthplace of three different religions, and yet we saw absolutely 0 of that in Kaladesh).
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
Yeah, the Hour Story is straight up Exodus(pop culture) right now. We've got "River of Blood" and "Duel of gods with staff turning into snake".

I'm fully expecting for the following outcomes wrt The Gatewatch post this set:

Gideon: pressumed Dead, last thing we see of him is a Last Stand Against Bolas trying to save the gods.

Jace: Mind gets completely fried, reopening his memory of Vryn while everything after is fucked up

Liliana: Planeswalks away to Dominaria in fear

Chandra: Planeswalks back to Kaladesh/Shandalar, beaten and bloody before a figure of Authority.

Nissa: Remains on Amonkhet trying to save the gods/plane using the Leylines.

Like, I think they're ideally aiming for more of a "breaking of the fellowship" then a "Avengers Disassembled" narrative.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
kirblar said:
The "consultants" for Kaladesh were people of Indian descent who already worked there so....this isn't surprising.
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Sure, but at least there was a very small bit of fairly modern Indian aesthetic on Kaladesh even if it was nothing more than very lazy window dressing for a plane that could have been set basically anywhere. At the very least they were at least very vaguely alluding to a culture that still exists.

Amonkhet has nothing about modern Egypt about it and the major parts of HOU we've seen so far are entirely new or are based on part of the founding myth of the Jewish people, neither of which have anything to do with Egypt past or present.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Magic Story - Hour of Glory
* The story begins with the creation myth of the world, as the gods remember, with Bolas making everything.
* The gods are confused as to what's going on, and why Bolas isn't here yet.
* The Luxa River drains, all the blood flowing into a building beyond the Gate.
* This awakens the Pillar Men the three bug gods. They are larger than the normal gods.
* Only the Scorpion God walks forward, and Rhonas asks his intention.
* Scorpion attacks. Rhonas blocks and dodges, astonished that he's stronger than him. He recognizes this as his Trial of the Hour of Glory.
* Rhonas uses a pump spell to blow Scorpion away, but he gets up. Rhonas is happy to prove his worth against a worthy foe.
* Rhonas gives himself deathtouch and kills Scorpion.
* Rhonas turns to speak, but Scorpion gets up again and stabs him. His poison cuts his mana bonds, including the ones implanted by Bolas, and he regains his memories, recognizing Scorpion as his brother.
* Rhonas curses Bolas, and uses the last of his magic to turn his staff into a snake to attack Scorpion.
* As Scorpion tussle with the snake, the gods are shocked, both by Rhonas's death and his blasphemy.
* The Locust God uses bugs to destroy the Hekma.
* Scorpion kills the snake, and all three bug gods approach the normal gods.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Simply Sarah said:
Sure, but at least there was a very small bit of fairly modern Indian aesthetic on Kaladesh even if it was nothing more than very lazy window dressing for a plane that could have been set basically anywhere. At the very least they were at least very vaguely alluding to a culture that still exists.

Amonkhet has nothing about modern Egypt about it and the major parts of HOU we've seen so far are entirely new or are based on part of the founding myth of the Jewish people, neither of which have anything to do with Egypt past or present.
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Why on earth would you include anything about Modern Egypt in an Egyptian block?

A) People don't know Modern Egypt

B) Modern *anything* is a problem because you make one accidental wrong move and you've sparked an international incident because you've pissed off the locals. (see: Kiora's last name, Josie from Tekken)

This is why they went hyper-conservative on Kaladesh, because it's not clear how much of this you can fuck around w/ w/o pissing people off. (Japan, by contrast, has tons of media playing w/ their folklore to various degrees, so Kamigawa was fine.)
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
kirblar said:
Why on earth would you include anything about Modern Egypt in an Egyptian block?

A) People don't know Modern Egypt

B) Modern *anything* is a problem because you make one accidental wrong move and you've sparked an international incident because you've pissed off the locals. (see: Kiora's last name, Josie from Tekken)

This is why they went hyper-conservative on Kaladesh, because it's not clear how much of this you can fuck around w/ w/o pissing people off. (Japan, by contrast, has tons of media playing w/ their folklore to various degrees, so Kamigawa was fine.)
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Oh, sorry. I wasn't trying to say it should be modern Egypt. I was trying to say that who cares if someone lived or grew up in Egypt when that's not related to the set at hand. It's a bit like saying you're happy someone is the lead for a set about Paul Bunyan because they grew up near some trees.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I mean, they haven't really gone into the Egyptian gods much at all - whilst Helios was clearly based off Zeus, and Xenogos off Dionysus, the Amonkhet gods are nothing like Egyptian gods at all. There's no Ra equivalent, no Isis / Osiris / Set analogies, and nothing like the unbelieveably long history of Egypt (seriously, Egypt existed for thousands upon thousands of years). So there's still a lot that can be done, but so far it feels like they've hit a home run flavour wise (I love the 3 evil gods in particular).

Re the Exodus analogies, yes it's Jewish mythology rather than Egyptian, but they needed to blow up the plane and I struggle to see how you do that and don't play off the existing tropes without absolutely pissing off your audience. Plagues of Locusts, the sun being blotted out and rivers of blood aren't so much a cliche as they are extremely powerful source material that makes a lot of sense to use.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Maledict said:
I mean, they haven't really gone into the Egyptian gods much at all - whilst Helios was clearly based off Zeus, and Xenogos off Dionysus, the Amonkhet gods are nothing like Egyptian gods at all. There's no Ra equivalent, no Isis / Osiris / Set analogies, and nothing like the unbelieveably long history of Egypt (seriously, Egypt existed for thousands upon thousands of years). So there's still a lot that can be done, but so far it feels like they've hit a home run flavour wise (I love the 3 evil gods in particular).

Re the Exodus analogies, yes it's Jewish mythology rather than Egyptian, but they needed to blow up the plane and I struggle to see how you do that and don't play off the existing tropes without absolutely pissing off your audience. Plagues of Locusts, the sun being blotted out and rivers of blood aren't so much a cliche as they are extremely powerful source material that makes a lot of sense to use.
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Aside from Anubis, no one's really familiar with the Egyptian gods. So taking the Iconography and then warping it worked. (especially since the story of Amonkhet is Bolas literally culturally appropriating the plane lol)
 
Z

Zocano

Member
I guess Rhonas' Last X card will be a kill spell going off the art in the story. Oh well, woulda liked something other than more kill spells.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
kirblar said:
Aside from Anubis, no one's really familiar with the Egyptian gods. So taking the Iconography and then warping it worked. (especially since the story of Amonkhet is Bolas literally culturally appropriating the plane lol)
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but I got Egyptian history and mythology during history classes in high school, so I would expect other people to at least be aware how the Egyptian Gods work.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Daedardus said:
I don't know about you, but I got Egyptian history and mythology during history classes in high school, so I would expect other people to at least be aware how the Egyptian Gods work.
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You are not the norm.

I was in advanced classes in a top-tier school district and saw nothing on that. Greek/Roman is what you get mythology-wise.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Maledict said:
I mean, they haven't really gone into the Egyptian gods much at all - whilst Helios was clearly based off Zeus, and Xenogos off Dionysus, the Amonkhet gods are nothing like Egyptian gods at all. There's no Ra equivalent, no Isis / Osiris / Set analogies, and nothing like the unbelieveably long history of Egypt (seriously, Egypt existed for thousands upon thousands of years). So there's still a lot that can be done, but so far it feels like they've hit a home run flavour wise (I love the 3 evil gods in particular).

Re the Exodus analogies, yes it's Jewish mythology rather than Egyptian, but they needed to blow up the plane and I struggle to see how you do that and don't play off the existing tropes without absolutely pissing off your audience. Plagues of Locusts, the sun being blotted out and rivers of blood aren't so much a cliche as they are extremely powerful source material that makes a lot of sense to use.
Click to expand...
They cleverly sidestepped this because Amonkhet has a history we don't get to know about but yeah I maybe would have liked an Egypt set that went into this a bit more
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Daedardus said:
I don't know about you, but I got Egyptian history and mythology during history classes in high school, so I would expect other people to at least be aware how the Egyptian Gods work.
Click to expand...

I also had a lesson or two on that in my past. But the Egyptian panthenon is not as present in pop culture as the Greek or Roman one. I think it's a matter of constant reinforcement, or the lack thereof, that makes people less aware of the Egyptian gods.
 
M

Maledict

Member
kirblar said:
Aside from Anubis, no one's really familiar with the Egyptian gods. So taking the Iconography and then warping it worked. (especially since the story of Amonkhet is Bolas literally culturally appropriating the plane lol)
Click to expand...

Oh I get that - like I said, I think Amonkhet has been a big success flavor wise, I love the setting, love the way it warped some expectations but hewed very close to the. Line on others, and love the fact we get a proper apocalypse set. For all the talk of how often they used to destroy settings and how bad that was long term, they very, very rarely if ever actually properly go ham on a setting like they are doing now. Love it.

And re Egyptian gods, whilst I don't think the common tales are as known as some of the Greek & roman stuff, I absolutely think mtgs audience knows more than you say. We had Stargate decades ago, you have Egyptian gods running around in numerous online games, and it's a very popular theme in sci if full stop. I wouldn't expect people to know much detail, but I do think Ra = sun god and Set = evil bastard to also be known, as well as a few of the more common tropes (sun being carried across the sky etc). Like I said though - I wouldn't want that in these sets, I really like these sets. Just that if they return to Amonkhet, there's still a few things they can look at. They haven't exhausted the popular culture well quite yet.
 
T

Tunoku

Member
I'm having a tough time getting excited for this set. I wasn't a big fan of Amonkhet and Ixalan looks so much cooler that I kinda don't care as much as I should.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think I'm actually quitting constructed magic in paper. It's not fun for me anymore because the community is completely filled with toxic people and ceaseless whining about every fucking random thing from the store staff (at every single store, really), to constant saltiness, to the sheer expensive of trying to keep up with the game in Standard. It's just no longer worth it.

I'm definitely selling out of Modern. I've got all my cards organized and ready to ship off to a buylist. I almost literally never play that format at all.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
I've had egyptian mythology in elementary school already.

Sad it before Amonkhet is a themepark
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That's all these sets will ever be though? You say that like it's a critiscm. We get to go to a place, we get to have some fun on the big rides, then we go somewhere else. Maybe when we see them starting to return to planes more often we'll start going all serious and deep on the lore and history, but I suspect after Kamigawa that's not on the cards.

Mtg is a big gamer hobby, and it's going to cater towards popular culture. For the sci if and fantasy fans who are their prime audience, that means theme park planes because that's what people expect and like - me include.
 
D

DrArchon

Member
Zocano said:
Actually on second thought Rhonas' Last X couuuld be an aggressively costed creature with the land exert clause.
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They do have the artwork of Rhonas's staff turning into a snake, and seeing as that's literally the last thing he does, it makes sense to me that we'll get a big Snake for three mana.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Maledict said:
That's all these sets will ever be though? You say that like it's a critiscm. We get to go to a place, we get to have some fun on the big rides, then we go somewhere else. Maybe when we see them starting to return to planes more often we'll start going all serious and deep on the lore and history, but I suspect after Kamigawa that's not no the cards.

Mtg is a big gamer, it's going to cater towards popular culture. For sci if and fantasy fans who ar their prime audience, that means theme park planes because that's what people expect and like - me include.
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Tarkir wasn't, neither was ravnica.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
For all of WOTC's bluster that Ravnica is an ecumenopolis, nothing about it story or mechanics wise suggests it's anything more than just a regular big city.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
kirblar said:
Aside from Anubis, no one's really familiar with the Egyptian gods. So taking the Iconography and then warping it worked. (especially since the story of Amonkhet is Bolas literally culturally appropriating the plane lol)
Click to expand...

I've seen every episode of Stargate SG-1, so I'm basically an expert.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Tarkir wasn't, neither was ravnica.
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Um, just because they are more focussed on the big rides doesn't make it any less of a theme park... ;-). I mean, I like Ravnica a lot but they've utterly failed to show how it's a 'world city'. What's different in Ravnica from kaladesh?

(I mean, they have sort of gone into more detail in Ravnica, but that's simply the stuff they lifted wholesale from Sigil. Ravnica to me still feels like it's missing stuff that make it a city plane. It's really a guild plane where the art has more buildings about it).

And re Tarkir, I'm just not seeing how that's different to Amonkhet. Yes, they had the 5 clans / dragons to showcase stuff through, but it felt just as much a theme park. In fact more so, because colour based modular design is the easiest to do and naturally creates different elements for you to play in).

Again, it's not a critiscm from me that their planes tend towards theme parks - it works for the audience, it makes sense, and we are only supposed to be there a short while before we jump to the next world.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I think I'm actually quitting constructed magic in paper. It's not fun for me anymore because the community is completely filled with toxic people and ceaseless whining about every fucking random thing from the store staff (at every single store, really), to constant saltiness, to the sheer expensive of trying to keep up with the game in Standard. It's just no longer worth it.
Click to expand...

Are people berating your LGS staff or are the staff assholes?
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Angry Grimace said:
But Bolas controls all 8 of them - why would he set them against each other
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Perhaps his hold on the five left active is weak enough that he didn't want to risk them turning on him. Perhaps the defeat of the five gods the population is familiar with serves some purpose in his plan. I mean, I assume there's some story justification for it tossed in there somewhere that we will be informed of.

Although I suppose they could also pull the "Bolas 125D chess" card and not explain it at all on the grounds that it's part of some master plan we might be partially informed about in 5-10 years. i.e. We wanted to nuke everything so we made some crap up and we don't need to have a explanation for it besides a Bolas hand wave.
 
J

Justin

Member
Its kind of the opposite out here. Everyone in my LGS is nice, pleasant and excited to play every week and online its all complaining.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Zocano said:
Are people berating your LGS staff or are the staff assholes?
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Every store I've ever been to the players constantly complain about the staff, or the store policies (even though they have no idea what it takes to run a store or whether its actually profitable), constantly make it uncomfortable by getting salty or arguing about cards or perceived slights, etc.

I'd rather play limited because the limited community is far more chill.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Every store I've ever been to the players constantly complain about the staff, or the store policies (even though they have no idea what it takes to run a store or whether its actually profitable), constantly make it uncomfortable by getting salty or arguing about cards or perceived slights, etc.

I'd rather play limited because the limited community is far more chill.
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Your local community is segregated? That's weird.
 
J

Justin

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Every store I've ever been to the players constantly complain about the staff, or the store policies (even though they have no idea what it takes to run a store or whether its actually profitable), constantly make it uncomfortable by getting salty or arguing about cards or perceived slights, etc.

I'd rather play limited because the limited community is far more chill.
Click to expand...

Well maybe the limited thing explains it. The store I go to only does limited.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Maledict said:
Um, just because they are more focussed on the big rides doesn't make it any less of a theme park... ;-). I mean, I like Ravnica a lot but they've utterly failed to show how it's a 'world city'. What's different in Ravnica from kaladesh?

(I mean, they have sort of gone into more detail in Ravnica, but that's simply the stuff they lifted wholesale from Sigil. Ravnica to me still feels like it's missing stuff that make it a city plane. It's really a guild plane where the art has more buildings about it).

And re Tarkir, I'm just not seeing how that's different to Amonkhet. Yes, they had the 5 clans / dragons to showcase stuff through, but it felt just as much a theme park. In fact more so, because colour based modular design is the easiest to do and naturally creates different elements for you to play in).

Again, it's not a critiscm from me that their planes tend towards theme parks - it works for the audience, it makes sense, and we are only supposed to be there a short while before we jump to the next world.
Click to expand...
What I mean is that Amonkhet is literally a theme park upon entry you get a map with all 5 trials, each of them an attraction once you gathered all 5 at the evening the gate to the afterlife opens and a parade comes out.

Nothing in Amonkhet makes me look out for more, to dive deeper. They deliberately explain a ton of shit away with "Mummies are sorta slaves *shrug*".

I don't like Ravnica for returning over and over but there's always been a structure to it and much more striking iconography.
It's Slavic based but not on the nose so.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, I am 100% selling out of Modern if someone's looking to buy stuff, although I'm really only looking for money and not trades. Given that I'm likely to just buylist them, I'm willing to sell them to GAFfers for a good price (although probably not straight up buylist prices since I could just do that locally) otherwise.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Realized no one posted this, Planeswalker Deck exclusive cards.
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One thing that jumps out at me is that Nissa's Encouragement says "a card named Forest" instead of "a basic forest". This feels like an odd choice to me since this seems like a good place to teach new players about basic land subtypes (and also it's technically different since it can't fetch a Snow-Covered Forest but that's neither here nor there). Best as I can tell, this is the first card to ever actually name a basic rather than a basic subtype.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
Santiako said:
MAGIC STORY: HOUR OF GLORY

By the art, I assume Scorpio either kills Rhonas (who wins the prize for most pointless god ever) or gives him a massage.

en_9LbKfiUIeo.png
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"You can do this, kid. I believe in you."
latest
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Simply Sarah said:
One thing that jumps out at me is that Nissa's Encouragement says "a card named Forest" instead of "a basic forest". This feels like an odd choice to me since this seems like a good place to teach new players about basic land subtypes (and also it's technically different since it can't fetch a Snow-Covered Forest but that's neither here nor there). Best as I can tell, this is the first card to ever actually name a basic rather than a basic subtype.
Click to expand...

It's just consistency in the text of the card, I think.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I mean, I am 100% selling out of Modern if someone's looking to buy stuff, although I'm really only looking for money and not trades. Given that I'm likely to just buylist them, I'm willing to sell them to GAFfers for a good price (although probably not straight up buylist prices since I could just do that locally) otherwise.
Click to expand...

I mean, if you put up a list of what's on offer along with condition and rough expected price I'd at least take a look.
 
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