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Should we charge artists who draw child pornography?

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sensui-tomo

sensui-tomo

Member
People who normally see my posts on gaf will think this is an odd post for me considering some of my ideals but this has been something pressing my thoughts since someone i knew was arrested for having doujins in another country. I was wondering if someone who made those doujins should be considered the same as distributing child porn since some people consider doujins to be the same as child porn, and with this same discussion, should people who did draw it at one point but stopped be punished as well, (like how we'd punish people who'd distributed actual child porn vids/pictures online) . (this is a small question regarding someone whom made stupid porn of a cartoon character whom were underaged but now has a great tv show out for kids and i'd wonder if people should care about that part of their history) If a mod doesnt want this to be discussed I understand if it gets closed as many individuals here on gaf do get heated on this arguement (myself included) I just thought maybe now was a good time for one of these discussions i've thought in my head that i'd like to discuss with gaf with.
Again this isnt argueing about people who look at CP/doujins with underaged people. This is about the creators/distributors of said content and artists whom used to make it and dont anymore.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
If you're drawing real naked kids, yes.

If you're drawing fictional naked kids, maybe.

If you're drawing 9,000 year old dragons, no.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
Unless it affects a real child, no.

Loli is creepy and gross, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.
 
S

sarcastor

Member
you can draw rape, murder, genocide, drug usage, etc., why not draw a naked kid. sure it's gross but it shouldn't be illegal.

it's just a fucking drawing. Get over it.
 
J

jonno394

Member
The difference between drawings and creating real child pornography is that a child is harmed to create the latter. Yes the former is terrible, but no child is actually harmed. it's a night and day difference imo
 
J

James Scott

Banned
this is a small question regarding someone whom made stupid porn of a cartoon character whom were underaged but now has a great tv show out for kids and i'd wonder if people should care about that part of their history
Click to expand...
Who did that?
 
M

MrHoot

Member
No. Find it creepy however you like, they're drawings and unless the artist uses real child models or somehow purposefully sells it to children, there's no reason to charge

Speevy said:
What if you've got a kid posing for you?
Click to expand...

In the unlikely eventuality of this, you'd probably be charged for the child abuse, rather than for actual drawing

James Scott said:
Who did that?
Click to expand...

Probably talkin about one of the artists of Steven Universe. Some fans are going stupid apeshit because she used to draw ero/yaoi-doujins of Ed, Edd and Eddy if I recall
 
P

Pegosaurus

Banned
nope, unless it's a drawing of a real child.

i don't really get why people always advocate for banning of child pornography in manga and whatnot. it's not hurting anybody, and it's obviously leagues better than looking at real child pornography.
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
No. People should be free to draw whatever they want, no matter how disgusting you may find it. This is along the same lines of thought as Muslim Extremists not wanting their prophet to be depicted.
 
M

Moppet13

Member
Pegosaurus said:
nope, unless it's a drawing of a real child.

i don't really get why people always advocate for banning of child pornography in manga and whatnot. it's not hurting anybody, and it's obviously leagues better than looking at real child pornography.
Click to expand...

I think they're more fixated on child porn being illegal rather than why child porn is illegal. So I guess they think banning drawings on naked children is inline with banning child porn?
 
B

bebop242

Member
jonno394 said:
The difference between drawings and creating real child pornography is that a child is harmed to create the latter. Yes the former is terrible, but no child is actually harmed. it's a night and day difference imo
Click to expand...

But, and I'm playing devils advocate here, could a drawing be used to glorify sex with children? Then in turn enticing someone to hurt a real child?
 
Z

zulux21

Member
James Scott said:
Who did that?
Click to expand...

Escalario said:
This. I need the details, OP.
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I believe it is a reference to Rebecca Sugar who created Steven Universe as when she was younger she drew some Ed Edd and Eddy stuff... if my rumors are correct :p

sensui-tomo said:
Not going to name names, but i'll just say someone drew ed,edd and eddy yaoi porn and has made one of my all time favorite shows on Cartoon network (not Adult Swim)
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I named them for you >.>
it's not like it's this huge secret that needs to be hidden.
note: I responded before I saw your post and added yours after the fact. I just don't see a real reason to hide the idea because it's not a big deal. it's not like ed edd and eddy are real childred who were violated to make such drawings.
 
K

kadotsu

Banned
Child pornography is illegal because it is rape by proxy. As an investigator I would look into artists for possession because they might have used child pornographic material as reference. That said I haven't no legal knowledge so I don't know if it is a probable cause.

If no child was involved in any way then I wouldn't consider it under child pornography in the legal sense.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
Tagyhag said:
Unless it affects a real child, no.

Loli is creepy and gross, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my position. I don't like the idea that a person can commit a felony with a pencil and a sheet of paper.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Child pornography is by definition real images of kids, so whether it's drawn or photographed, it should absolutely be illegal under all circumstances.
 
J

jonno394

Member
bebop242 said:
But, and I'm playing devils advocate here, could a drawing be used to glorify sex with children? Then in turn enticing someone to hurt a real child?
Click to expand...

I have no idea if it could. Perhaps, but then you would have to start banning games or films that glorify murder. Different crimes I know.
 
N

noquarter

Member
No, drawings are just drawings.

If they were attempting to depict real children I would have to really question it and it would make me more apt to think they should be charged, but they still shouldn't be.
bebop242 said:
But, and I'm playing devils advocate here, could a drawing be used to glorify sex with children? Then in turn enticing someone to hurt a real child?
Click to expand...
Sure, in the same way that videogames could entice someone to go on a shooting spree.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
If you were a cop questioning a suspect on let's say a hit and run accident charge and you found a huge stash of naked kid drawings all over their apartment, would you not investigate further?
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
bebop242 said:
But, and I'm playing devils advocate here, could a drawing be used to glorify sex with children? Then in turn enticing someone to hurt a real child?
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the artist. Its like saying video game developers that depict violence should be responsible if someone reenacts those video games in real life (like say, actually performing a fatality on someone or shooting people)

also, its really hard to determine age with drawings. Especially when you get into heavily stylized stuff.
 
sensui-tomo

sensui-tomo

Member
Speevy said:
If they're drawing real naked kids from life, they should be arrested.

How is that unclear?
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What if its characters from a show(Cartoon or game) who are clearly under age (minors in any sense of the legal term) Asking this for my part 2 question.
 
C

Cloyster

Banned
Speevy said:
Child pornography is by definition real images of kids, so whether it's drawn or photographed, it should absolutely be illegal under all circumstances.
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Not true

Visual depictions include photographs, videos, digital or computer generated images indistinguishable from an actual minor, and images created, adapted, or modified, but appear to depict an identifiable, actual minor. Undeveloped film, undeveloped videotape, and electronically stored data that can be converted into a visual image of child pornography are also deemed illegal visual depictions under federal law.
Click to expand...

Doesn't include drawn.
 
C

Cartman86

Banned
Obviously no. If you are in a country where fake child pornography is illegal to posses then yeah obviously the person who created it should get in trouble too, but I don't think this is criminal behavior no matter how gross I find it.
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
Depends on context. Berserk has a child rape scene which is horrific to read but it plays a big role in the character. Loli is a department I have no experience in to comment but child pornography that is glamorised or drawn for sexual entertainment should be dealt with as if it was illegal.
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
I'd say no, but I'm going to harshly judge both the artists that draw them and the individuals that enjoy it. There's something definitely wrong there.
 
B

bebop242

Member
Chezzymann said:
That has nothing to do with the artist. Its like saying video game developers that depict violence should be responsible if someone reenacts those video games in real life (like say, actually performing a fatality on someone or shooting people)

also, its really hard to determine age with drawings. Especially when you get into heavily stylized stuff.
Click to expand...

Yea but I'd think influencing sexual perversions would be a lot easier than turning people into murderers.
 
P

Pegosaurus

Banned
Cloyster said:
Not true



Doesn't include drawn.
Click to expand...

also specifies that it has to be an image of or resembling an actual minor

there's no way this should be illegal unless under those circumstances

Veritigo_X said:
I'd say no, but I'm going to harshly judge both the artists that draw them and the individuals that enjoy it. There's something definitely wrong there.
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Why is it wrong to be attracted to children? Obviously I think it's wrong to act on that attraction, but just the act of being attracted to children I see nothing wrong with. People are attracted to all sorts of weird shit.

If these people are getting their urges taken care of through drawings and whatnot, well obviously I prefer that to them using real children/pictures of real children, not to mention it gives the people who are attracted to children a possible way to take care of their urges without doing anything illegal.
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Absolutely not.

Distasteful art is still art. So says L'Origine du Monde.


It's the exploitation in child pornography which should be punished, not the fetish itself (which should be treated, not punished).
 
M

MrHoot

Member
Speevy said:
If you were a cop questioning a suspect on let's say a hit and run accident charge and you found a huge stash of naked kid drawings all over their apartment, would you not investigate further?
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Just to make sure we're clear, talking about realistic drawings of kids (ones that would probably need a model or are just eerily realistic) or animu loli stuff included as well ?

Cuz if it's animu I wouldn't bat too much of an eye really (unless like...it's PLASTERED around the place. But i'd categorize more as creepazoid and move on). If it's actual realistic drawing plastered all around the place, yeah that'd be super dodgy and i'd probably question why there's so many stuff like that around
 
C

Cloyster

Banned
Pegosaurus said:
also specifies that it has to be an image of or resembling an actual minor

there's no way this should be illegal unless under those circumstances
Click to expand...

specifically it says "indistinguishable from an actual minor"

So, I wonder if very realistic CGI child porn would be deemed illegal.
 
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