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Walshicus · May 5, 2008

liuelson said:
Ah, so the negative correlation explains Nintendo's hostility to the traditional video game industry and 3rd party publishers, etc. ;-)

Or Nintendo's innovative bucking of industrial trends...

I feel so dirty for saying that.

Actually that data just shows the correlation of each manufacturer's performance to the sum of all manufacturer's performance. I'm too busy with work spreadsheets to really put much time into thinking what use [if any] that is. I just like using the correlation function. I also like using a shit tonne of conditional if()s, countif()s, countsum()s and the like:

Code:

	[b]Sony		Nintendo		Microsoft		Industry[/b]
1998	1,253,000,000	809,000,000			2,062,000,000
1999	1,431,000,000	817,000,000			2,248,000,000
2000	900,000,000	519,000,000			1,419,000,000
2001	-488,000,000	866,000,000			378,000,000
2002	731,000,000	939,000,000	-880,000,000	790,000,000
2003	1,076,000,000	642,000,000	-1,365,000,000	353,000,000
2004	731,000,000	355,000,000	-1,367,000,000	-281,000,000
2005	440,000,000	846,000,000	-528,000,000	758,000,000
2006	79,000,000	942,000,000	-1,329,000,000	-308,000,000
2007	-1,969,000,000	1,489,000,000	-1,892,000,000	-2,372,000,000
2008	-1,254,000,000	2,480,000,000	532,000,000	1,758,000,000
				
Total	
	2,930,000,000	10,704,000,000	-6,829,000,000	6,805,000,000
Average	
	266,363,636	973,090,909	-975,571,429	618,636,364
Profitable Years	
	8		11		1		8
Non-Profitable Years	
	3		0		6		3
Average in Loss Year	
	-1,237,000,000	None		-1,226,833,333	-987,000,000
Average in Profit Year	
	830,125,000	973,090,909	532,000,000	1,220,750,000

Haly · May 5, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
numbers

I kind of feel sorry for microsoft.

Walshicus · May 5, 2008

Halycon said:
I kind of feel sorry for microsoft.

Sympathy is one of the emotions you shouldn't be feeling toward multinational corporations. But still, I'd imagine they're quite happy with the way things are going lately. Profitability at last, and a profit boost of around $2.4bn from 07 to 08...

TunaLover · May 5, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
Code:

Average in Profit Year 830,125,000 [b]973,090,909[/b] 532,000,000 [b]1,220,750,000[/b]

Wow, Nintendo is almost at industry levels, this pretty much confirm Wii/DS as industry drivers (as if we didn´t know already)

Walshicus · May 5, 2008

TunaLover said:
Wow, Nintendo is almost at industry levels, this pretty much confirm Wii/DS as industry drivers (as if we didn´t know already)

It actually averages over 300,000,000 ABOVE the industry for 98 to 08, the figure you quoted is for profitable years.

TunaLover · May 5, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
It actually averages over 300,000,000 ABOVE the industry for 98 to 08, the figure you quoted is for profitable years.

Oh snap, I see that. Just insane

CTLance · May 5, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
Charts, because I didn't see any:
(charts)
Also, eww at the way MSPaint does BMP to JPG colours. Damn shame I don't have a Paintshop license on this machine.

Thanks for the charts.

I'm sorry, but could you export/save it as PNG or GIF instead? Computer-generated pics with a really small number of unique colors and huge monochromatic areas work best with those. JPG is best suited for photos with high color counts and many gradients.

Also, might I interest you in Irfanview? Best imageviewer on Windows, ever. Plus it's free.

Walshicus · May 5, 2008

CTLance said:
Thanks for the charts.

I'm sorry, but could you export/save it as PNG or GIF instead? Computer-generated pics with a really small number of unique colors and huge monochromatic areas work best with those. JPG is best suited for photos with high color counts and many gradients.

Also, might I interest you in Irfanview? Best imageviewer on Windows, ever. Plus it's free.

Sure, I was a bit slapdash with those charts anyways:

The original excel file is linked in my first post though, should you wish to make them more pretty. I'd do it myself only I've got a tonne of stuff I should be doing right now. Forecasts don't forecast themselves.

EDIT: Actually, given that this kind of data analysis and forecasting is what I do for a living; you'd have thought I'd have applied it to my hobby before now... I might have to start doing some of these numbers when I get some spare time.

Captain Smoker · May 5, 2008

I´ve compiled some data for other companies [net income]:

Ubisoft FY 04/05: 24.700.000
Ubisoft FY 05/06: 11.900.000
Ubisoft FY 06/07: 40.500.000

Sega-Sammy FY 05/06: 66.221.000 ¥

Electronic Arts FY 06/07: 76.000.000 $

Square Enix FY 05/06: 11.619.000.000 ¥

THQ FY 06/07: 68.038.000 $

Bandai Namco FY 06/07: 205.438.000 $

Konami FY 06/07: 16.200.000 ¥

Capcom FY 05/06: 5.852.000.000 ¥

Btw., where can I found an inflation calculator?

CTLance · May 5, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
Sure, I was a bit slapdash with those charts anyways:
[img]http://stevewalsh2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/BG.PNG[/img]
[img]http://stevewalsh2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/LG.PNG[/img]
[img]http://stevewalsh2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/RG.PNG[/img]

The original excel file is linked in my first post though, should you wish to make them more pretty.

They're plenty pretty as is, thank you.
I certainly don't need lensflares and funshaders on sales charts.

Walshicus · May 6, 2008

CTLance said:
They're plenty pretty as is, thank you.
I certainly don't need lensflares and funshaders on sales charts.

Hmm, I think I can read the submerged disappointment in your text there... I'll put some Mega Textures in the next set, and make the bar charts out of Voxels.

apujanata · May 6, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
Hmm, I think I can read the submerged disappointment in your text there... I'll put some Mega Textures in the next set, and make the bar charts out of Voxels.

I think what he meant is he wanted those charts in FULL HD, complete with AA and all those high-tech graphical features.

CTLance · May 6, 2008

jarrod · May 6, 2008

Captain Smoker said:
I´ve compiled some data for other companies [net income]:

Ubisoft FY 04/05: 24.700.000
Ubisoft FY 05/06: 11.900.000
Ubisoft FY 06/07: 40.500.000

Sega-Sammy FY 05/06: 66.221.000 ¥

Electronic Arts FY 06/07: 76.000.000 $

Square Enix FY 05/06: 11.619.000.000 ¥

THQ FY 06/07: 68.038.000 $

Bandai Namco FY 06/07: 205.438.000 $

Konami FY 06/07: 16.200.000 ¥

Capcom FY 05/06: 5.852.000.000 ¥

Btw., where can I found an inflation calculator?

Holishit, what happened to Konami!? I knew they were down recently, but down behind Sega? :lol

Laguna · May 6, 2008

jarrod said:
Holishit, what happened to Konami!? I knew they were down recently, but down behind Sega? :lol

Just look at their NDS output, that explains alot. It´s funny how a Japanese-centric and big company like Konami can vastly ignore the leading system. I admit Capcom isn´t much better in this redarg but at least they have a mega-seller series on PSP and some decent sellers on DS like Gyakuten and MegMan.

The-Switcher · May 6, 2008

Wait

Nintendo has NEVER had an unprofitable year??

Pureauthor · May 6, 2008

The-Switcher said:
Wait

Nintendo has NEVER had an unprofitable year??

I think they had one.

Or was that a quarter?

Just look at their NDS output, that explains alot. It´s funny how a Japanese-centric and big company like Konami can vastly ignore the leading system. I admit Capcom isn´t much better in this redarg but at least they have a mega-seller series on PSP and some decent sellers on DS like Gyakuten and MegMan.

Capcom has its fingers in many pies (and is awesome for doing so), so unless the entire market sees a significant downturn Capcom can keep on trucking.

(And I like their DS efforts, thankyouverymuch.)

Captain Smoker · May 6, 2008

Pureauthor said:
I think they had one.

Or was that a quarter?

A quarter in the N64/PSX - era.

Pureauthor · May 6, 2008

Captain Smoker said:
A quarter in the N64/PSX - era.

Well, there ya go. Nintendo knows how to look after itself.

D.Lo · May 6, 2008

Captain Smoker said:
A quarter in the N64/PSX - era.

Was actually a half-year in the GameCube era, I think 2004, and it was widely reported as a bad sign even though it had a lot to do with exchange rate issues. They still made a profit for the year and Microsoft lost a billion, but it was never suggested that the Xbox was in trouble. That was probably the darkest time ever for Nintendo fans where it seemed accepted they would go third party by most media.

The first half of the N64 era was very profitable and in the latter half they had Pokemans 1.

jarrod · May 6, 2008

Yeah, Nintendo banked in the mid/late 90s. N64 might've stumbled some, but basically all their games sold huge, they still had decent profits coming from legacy SFC/SNES support and Game Boy was reignited by Pokemon and Color. Lots of cash to be made then.

Konami just shocks me because I didn't realize how far they'd actually fallen... I mean this company used to be the biggest 3rd party earner just a few years back. PES/Bemani must literally be keeping them afloat at this point. :/

Captain Smoker · May 6, 2008

D.Lo said:
Was actually a half-year in the GameCube era, I think 2004, and it was widely reported as a bad sign even though it had a lot to do with exchange rate issues. They still made a profit for the year and Microsoft lost a billion, but it was never suggested that the Xbox was in trouble. That was probably the darkest time ever for Nintendo fans where it seemed accepted they would go third party by most media.

The first half of the N64 era was very profitable and in the latter half they had Pokemans 1.

Ok thanx, actually I considered if it was in the GC or N64 - era.

Stumpokapow · May 6, 2008

jarrod said:
Holishit, what happened to Konami!? I knew they were down recently, but down behind Sega? :lol

:lol speculawyer probably made more of an annual profit than konami did

Throwaway123456789 · May 6, 2008

Captain Smoker said:
Btw., where can I found an inflation calculator?

I copy pasted your "inflation calculator" into google and hit the "I'm feeling lucky button". In all, it took me longer to make the three "s in this post than it took to actually look up your question.

Oh, and: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

Deleted member 21120 · May 7, 2008

This thread is really confusing for someone who doesn't keep up with this stuff. So we have Nintendo's yearly earnings, but not Sony's or MS's? And what are Nintendo's, exactly?

Agent Ironside · May 7, 2008

Sir Fragula said:
Sure, I was a bit slapdash with those charts anyways:

Wow, look at the good ol days, Sony had it goin.

Bishman · May 7, 2008

What does Nintendo do to stay profitable year after year that Sony and Microsoft can not emulate?

Innotech · May 7, 2008

Bishman said:
What does Nintendo do to stay profitable year after year that Sony and Microsoft can not emulate?

they sell hardware for either a gain or little loss. This way even if the console "fails" in consumers minds it makes money for nintendo. They also print guaranteed money with handhelds.

Kusagari · May 7, 2008

Nintendo was basically 'saved' by Pokemon back then. They would have likely had a couple more loss quarters if they didn't strike that gold mine.

AtreyU · May 7, 2008

Just think how bad it would be for microsoft without the halo franchise all those years. Microsoft would probably not be here now. How much revenue has the halo franchise made microsoft?

mr_bishiuk · May 7, 2008

Bishman said:
What does Nintendo do to stay profitable year after year that Sony and Microsoft can not emulate?

They never lose money on the hardware, even if that means bringing out a console a year or more after its competitors when component prices are cheaper (N64/GC) or by bringing out inferior technology (Wii/DS).

Stormbringer · May 8, 2008

Bandai-Namco results are out :

http://www.bandainamco.co.jp/en/ir/financial/index.html

An interesting bit :

Code:

               [ RESULTS FY2008 ]         [ FORECASTS FY2009 ] 

         Nb of titles    Cps sold            
 
PS2            21         9,356k            11      4,346k
PS3             1         1,280k             6      3,833k
X360            5         1,509k             3      3,071k
Wii            13         1,568k            14      4,123k
PSP             8         3,829k            14      3,454k
NDS            39         6,467k            34      5,898k

jarrod · May 8, 2008

mr_bishiuk said:
They never lose money on the hardware, even if that means bringing out a console a year or more after its competitors when component prices are cheaper (N64/GC) or by bringing out inferior technology (Wii/DS).

They did lose money on GC upfront (about $20 per unit estimated) and again in 2003 with the $99 pricedrop.

gtj1092 · May 8, 2008

Stormbringer said:

Bandai-Namco results are out :

http://www.bandainamco.co.jp/en/ir/financial/index.html

Interesting bit :

Code:

               [ RESULTS FY2008 ]         [ FORECAST FY2009 ] 

         Nb of titles    Cps sold            
 
PS2            21         9,356k            11      4,346k
PS3             1         1,280k             6      3,833k
X360            5         1,509k             3      3,071k
Wii            13         1,568k            14      4,123k
PSP             8         3,829k            14      3,454k
NDS            39         6,467k            34      5,898k

Sweet they are actually going to make Ps3 games. And Ps2 is still the king.

Sharp · May 8, 2008

Stormbringer said:

Bandai-Namco results are out :

http://www.bandainamco.co.jp/en/ir/financial/index.html

Interesting bit :

Code:

               [ RESULTS FY2008 ]         [ FORECAST FY2009 ] 

         Nb of titles    Cps sold            
 
PS2            21         9,356k            11      4,346k
PS3             1         1,280k             6      3,833k
X360            5         1,509k             3      3,071k
Wii            13         1,568k            14      4,123k
PSP             8         3,829k            14      3,454k
NDS            39         6,467k            34      5,898k

What PS3 game of theirs sold 1.28 million copies? Tekken?

gtj1092 · May 8, 2008

Sharp said:
What PS3 game of theirs sold 1.28 million copies? Tekken?

Good question the only games I know they have released are Tekken and RR.

Went to their site myself. They list RR7 in their top 10 games of the year at 420 thousand in the US/EU. Maybe they are counting Tekken in sales but using only 1 in the number of titles since they didn't have to publish it. Really I I have no clue

Opiate · May 8, 2008

Can anyone distinguish Namco's net income here? I can see that their operating income is 144 million US dollars for their software segment.

That probably puts it in the range of 80 million dollars, but that's just a ballpark estimate and I'd love it if someone could pinpoint their net income.

jarrod · May 8, 2008

Uh, those FY2009 BNGI counts don't really jive with their already known releases...

PlayStation 2 (3/12)
-Drastic Killer (Tenky)
-Super Robot Taisen Z (Banpresto)
-Yamasa Digi World: Collaboration SP Pachi-Slot Ridge Racer (Yamasa)

PlayStation 3 (6/6)
-Afro Samurai (Namco Hometek)
-Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Dimps)
-Eternal Sonata (tri-Crescendo)
-Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm (CyberConnect2)
-Soul Calibur IV (Namco)
-Tekken 6 (Namco)

Xbox 360 (6/3?!)
-Afro Samurai (Namco Hometek)
-Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Dimps)
-Mobile Ops: The One Year War (BEC/Dimps)
-Soul Calibur IV (Namco)
-Tales of Vespiria (Tales Studio)
-Warhammer: Battle March (Black Hole)

Wii (11/14)
-Active Life Outdoor Challenge (Namco)
-Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch (???)
-Daikaiju Battle: Ultra Coliseum (???)
-Fragile: Sayonara Tsuki no Haikyo (Namco/tri-Crescendo)
-One Piece Unlimited Cruise: Episode 1 (Ganbarion)
-One Piece Unlimited Cruise: Episode 2 (Ganbarion)
-Pro Yakyuu Family Stadium (Namco)
-The Sky Crawlers (Namco)
-We Cheer (Namco)
-We Ski (Namco)
-Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (Tales Studio)

PSP (3/14)
-Gundam Battle Universe (BEC)
-Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Heroes 2: The Phantom Fortress (CyberConnect2)
-Super Robot Taisen A Portable (Banpresto)

Nintendo DS (16/34)
-99 no Namida (???)
-Bokura no Telebi Game Kentei (???)
-Dr. Slump & Arale-Chan (BEC)
-Chibi Maruko-Chan DS: Maru-Chan no Machi (Banpresto)
-Custom Beat Battle: Draglade 2 (Dimps)
-Digimon World Championship (Epics)
-Emblem of Gundam (Microvision)
-Gegege no Kitarou: Youkai Daigekisen (BEC)
-Meccha! Taiko no Tatsujin DS: 7-tsu no Shima no Daibouken (Namco)
-Mugen no Frontier: Super Robot Taisen OG Saga (Monolith)
-National Geographic Panda (Namco)
-Summon Night (Flight-Plan)
-Summon Night 2 (Flight-Plan)
-Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop 3 (Dimps)
-Tottadoo! Yoiko no Mujintou Seikatsu (???)

icecream · May 8, 2008

Code:

               [ RESULTS FY2008 ]         [ FORECASTS FY2009 ] 

          Nb of titles   Cps sold       Nb of titles  Cps sold
 
PS3            1          1,280k              6            3,833k
X360          5          1,509k              3            3,071k
Wii            13         1,568k             14            4,123k

So Bandai-Namco expects half as many titles on the 360 to move almost as much as double the amount of titles on the PS3, and more than double the titles on the Wii to move only as much as PS3 software.

They seem to have a lot of misplaced faith this generation.

jarrod · May 8, 2008

gtj1092 said:
Good question the only games I know they have released are Tekken and RR.

They also had Time Crisis 4... which bombed.

Unless RR7 sold like 900k+ in Europe the week after launch, I really don't see how they could come close to those figures. And if they are including downloadables, then their release numbers don't match up at all. :/

mabuza · May 8, 2008

keep on making them 360 exclusives namco.

Stormbringer · May 8, 2008

Mmmh, by the way, there is this small indication on the two columns which are indicating the number of titles published/to be published, which is only present in the Japanese version on the BanNam financial highlight :

ﾛｰｶﾗｲｽﾞ 控除後

Could this mean "After deduction (of the) localized (titles)" ?... Not completely sure what could be the meaning of this bit in there, but I'm guessing it's possible that this additional bit could somehow explain some of the inconsistencies relative to some facts you guys brought up...Either that, or the report itself is mistaken.

SuperBonk · May 8, 2008

icecream said:
They seem to have a lot of misplaced faith this generation.

They're probably predicting SCIV to outsell all their other games by a large margin.

Gwanatu T · May 10, 2008

SuperBonk said:
They're probably predicting SCIV to outsell all their other games by a large margin.

It probably will, or at least I don't see any reason it won't given their release list.

jj984jj · May 10, 2008

Stormbringer said:
Mmmh, by the way, there is this small indication on the two columns which are indicating the number of titles published/to be published, which is only present in the Japanese version on the BanNam financial highlight :

Could this mean "After deduction (of the) localized (titles)" ?... Not completely sure what could be the meaning of this bit in there, but I'm guessing it's possible that this additional bit could somehow explain some of the inconsistencies relative to some facts you guys brought up...Either that, or the report itself is mistaken.

I believe it says pretty much the same thing above the two smaller group total tables and in the English IR release it says After elimination of localized versions. This would clear up the inconsistency in # of titles for the previous year, but the 360 # still makes no sense for the upcoming year.

Edit: Then they list the total units shipped for all software on that platform for the year instead of just the amount of units the new titles shipped, that's one hell of a confusing table. They should label it all more clearly.

Innotech · May 10, 2008

someone remind me what Sky Crawlers for the wii is like?
I forgot what that is.

Stormbringer · May 13, 2008

It's Sega's turn :

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/flash_report_final_20080513.pdf

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/index.jsp

Koren · May 13, 2008

Innotech said:
someone remind me what Sky Crawlers for the wii is like?

It's the game from the Ace Combat team inspired by a movie or something like this, no ?

Phife Dawg · May 13, 2008

Stormbringer said:
It's Sega's turn :

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/flash_report_final_20080513.pdf

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/index.jsp

Thanks, we knew about the incoming loss but it's still saddening. Some interesting things:

In the consumer business, videogame software sales were 26,990 thousand copies, a increase of 5,720 thousand copies from the previous fiscal year. By region, sales were 2,570 thousand copies in Japan, 12,060 thousand copies in the U.S., 12,270 thousand copies in Europe, and 70 thousand copies in other regions. In overseas markets, videogame software sales increased year on year as a result of favorable sales of titles such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, which is themed on the Beijing Olympic Games. In Japan, however, sales decreased year on year, even though Ryu Ga Gotoku Kenzan!, the third title in the Ryu Ga Gotoku series achieved a measure of popularity. R&D costs increased year on year.

Wow, Europe is sure showing some Sega lovin'. Way to go fellow Euros

. The wording on RGGK's performance sure is strange "achieved a measure of popularity"? How do you get a "bit popular"? I'm not a native speaker, maybe someone can explain? Also interesting that R&D costs do go up, esp. in the light of big games like RGGK.

In the Japanese consumer market, the new platforms were becoming popular, and the unit sales of high-quality titles from third parties are expected to increase. The business in the European and North American consumer markets is expected to show healthy growth again in the current fiscal year.

Uh, we'll see about the first part. Personally I'm not overly optimistic tbh.

In the console entertainment software division of the consumer business segment, we will work to generate revenue, by selling licensed film titles in overseas markets and significant revision of the line-up strategies in the Japanese market.

So Iron Man and Hulk are signs of things to come? Sega is really making it hard to like them.

I'm definetly interested in what they want to do with the japanese market though. They already tried two big franchises from the Playstation days, will we see more unique products?

edit:
I just saw the thread about the confirmation of deal with Platinum Games - definetly a good start, sounds interesting

Pachael · May 14, 2008

Part of Sega Sammy's losses come from the Pachinko unit dropping a lot in profit from 71 bil yen (~$710 mil) to 8 bil yen (~$80 mil), but still, their amusement and consumer businesses also lost money, and that's despite Mario & Sonic being a runaway seller.

Amusement said:
《Amusement Center Operations》
In the amusement center operations business, sales at existing centers were lower than in the previous fiscal year. Similarly, in the kids card game machine business, Dinosaur King recorded strong sales by capturing synergies with an animated television series. However, the popularity of other content tapered off, leading to a sharp overall year-on-year decline in sales volume of kids cards.
During the fiscal year under review, 12 new amusement centers were opened in Japan, while 92 locations were closed or sold. As a result, the Group had a total of 363 amusement centers as of March 31, 2008.
As a result, net sales in this segment were ¥91,234 million (a decrease of 12.2% year on year), and operating loss was ¥9,807 million (compared with operating income of ¥132 million in the previous fiscal year).

In before arcades are dying ;p

Other expenses include:
- Penalty payment for cancellation of game center lease agreements of ~$10m
- Loss of cancellation of amusement center under development of ~$58m
- Premium allowance of retirement of ~$27m (Who could these people be? ;p)
- Cost of product recall ~$22m

Poor Sega Sammy.

Japanese pdf here:
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/pdf/release/20080513_tanshin_final.pdf

* Note, this author uses exchange rate of US$1 = 100 yen.

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