Is anyone else getting a bit tired of all the killing we do in games?
I mean, it's fine in COD, Halo, Hitman etc. The whole premise of those games is that you go and kill a load of people/aliens.
But what about Tomb Raider, Far Cry, Uncharted? Do we really need to rack up kill counts in the hundreds (thousands?) in these games? I've started to find it really jarring. Developers are trying to create characters we can relate to, but then we control them as they stack up a piles of bloody corpses.
Let's talk about Far Cry 3. [Minor game intro spoilers] They set up this character as a bit of a wimp, he shits himself when his (soldier) brother stabs a guy, he freaks out that he's being shot at. Then he has a nap and all of a sudden he's a viscous killer? It doesn't make sense. That game would have been great if it was about survival, about exploring the island, maybe pistol whipping guards to knock them out and get past, or perhaps give Jason a tranq gun (there's tigers on the island so it would make sense). Of all the things that make Far Cry 3 a good game, the shooting and killing hundreds of guys is not one of them.
It gives me a real disconnect from Jason, and for me, invalidates all the character set up they do in the game's intro.
Tomb Raider is even worse for it, this is a game that could have been all about survival and exploration, about the environment, (like it was in the original TR) but they've turned it into a shooter and it just doesn't tally with the story or characters they've created.
I'm not saying any of these games need to have NO killing, in fact, by restricting the amount of people we kill, they can make it a really powerful, game defining moment when we do actually off someone. It can enhance these characters rather than just turn them in to dead eyed killing machines.
Does anyone else feel this way? Am I just getting old and boring?
Give war a chance!
It's a game?
We've been jumping on goombas since '85, most developers simply don't know how to engage the player without giving them enemies to kill. And most gamers don't care to do much else. That will remain the primary challenge in most videogames probably forever.
But I agree. I would enjoy games like Uncharted much more if the primary objective wasn't to shoot dudes.
But I agree. I would enjoy games like Uncharted much more if the primary objective wasn't to shoot dudes.
I think the main issue is that you need a solid gameplay mechanic to base most of the game on, and shooting seems to be one of the most robust mechanics out there. You generally build games around shooting, brawling, platforming, or puzzle solving. I don't really know of many AAA titles that don't incorporate any of those four mechanics as their primary mechanic.
Games are violent?! Someone alert the press.
Anyway, yes, I agree games are too reliant on killing things/people these days.
Anyway, yes, I agree games are too reliant on killing things/people these days.
You need to play some Animal Crossing.
It is our nature to kill.
Play Journey.
Beautiful game without any violence.
Beautiful game without any violence.
When someone figures out a non-repetitive, repeatable, compelling, engaging, mass market friendly gameplay mechanic that can carry an entire game, that does not involve shooting things, within the context of a linear third or first person game, we'll stop with all the killing.
I think the next Uncharted or Tomb Raider should have an AI system that allows you to overpower the people trying to kill you with hugs and kisses.
We are animals.
We enjoy this shit.
We enjoy this shit.
pretty much. Games are interactive and one of the easiest and most effective things to give a player to do is to inflict violence on something else(jump on, shoot, stab, run over, etc.)Originally Posted by Pai Pai Master
We've been jumping on goombas since '85, most developers simply don't know how to engage the player without giving them enemies to kill. And most gamers don't care to do much else. That will remain the primary challenge in most videogames probably forever.
Its less about killing and more about overcoming the enemy by some means. In this case killing.
MGS putting dudes to sleep. Or not even engaging.
MGS putting dudes to sleep. Or not even engaging.
Well there's plenty of alternatives - Farming simulator 2011 for example ;)
Give me a call when you come up with gameplay that's as easy to produce, popular with the mass market and fits better a controller than shooting dudes in a 3D space.
I think the problem is that the killing doesn't have any impact in most games. It doesn't give me any sense of accomplishment nor does it have much have impact on the story drama. But then I think most games, especially shooters, are too easy. That is why I don't really like singleplayer shooters. When BF3 had that awful single player mode I simply didn't care. I didn't bother with it. I like MP shooters because the challenge is so much greater when you play other real people and the sense of accomplishment in beating them on a team of other real people is so much greater than simply picking off AI driven opponents.
Last edited by GetemMa; 03-07-2013 at 04:09 PM.
I'm getting sick of killing in games when it is reduced to just pointing a reticule at an enemy's head and pulling the trigger, yes. I don't mind violence when it is clever or exciting (MGS Rising), or at least couched in a way that isn't horribly dissonant with the narrative. Uncharted and Tomb Raider are the worst offenders in recent memories.
You can always play God of war games.
It's human nature. We did this for tens of thousands of years and would be bathed in this stressfull atmosphere on a regular basis. In modern culture, our stress is related to stupid drama or car problems - not real survival.
Games allow our inner instincts to feel this satisfaction.
When there's no outlet for an individual, that leads to scenarios such as mass shootings.
It's not that we like killing, but humans resonate with that aggressive stress. We need it, chemically.
Games allow our inner instincts to feel this satisfaction.
When there's no outlet for an individual, that leads to scenarios such as mass shootings.
It's not that we like killing, but humans resonate with that aggressive stress. We need it, chemically.
Sports games don't involve killing. Neither do most puzzle games.
It's one of those things you just kind of can't do anything about. Conflict with stakes is often going to involve fights to the death and the times it doesn't are refreshing and different but probably can't and won't ever be the norm.
There can absolutely be games where you don't kill a bunch of people in somewhat realistic environments, but those games are risky because the audience by and large buys games to kill a bunch of people in somewhat realistic environments.
There can absolutely be games where you don't kill a bunch of people in somewhat realistic environments, but those games are risky because the audience by and large buys games to kill a bunch of people in somewhat realistic environments.
Far Cry changing it's roots for the 3rd sequel wouldn't make sense, you shot dudes in the first Far Cry, you shot dudes and had malaria that could be cured with Advil doses of medication in the 2nd. Far Cry isn't the best example for too much shooting dude syndrome.
I sort of find non lethal weapon usage really odd in games, shooting 8 guards in the head with a tranquilizer that pierces their skull is pretty ridiculous.
Games should be designed in a way where there's a lot more risk and reward for killing or not touching enemies, besides XP boosts and skill unlocks.
I sort of find non lethal weapon usage really odd in games, shooting 8 guards in the head with a tranquilizer that pierces their skull is pretty ridiculous.
Games should be designed in a way where there's a lot more risk and reward for killing or not touching enemies, besides XP boosts and skill unlocks.
Absolutely, one hundred percent yes. I'm not saying video games are murder-simulators, but they absolutely do glorify and revel in violence. I can't stand it anymore as I've gotten older.
GAF'ers with military experience can perhaps give more insight than me, but the few times in my life I've been around when someone has been seriously injured, it's been terrible. It's a horrible thing to see someone potentially dying. I can't imagine what it'd be like to actually kill someone. And yet in video games, that's your goal, all the time - kill a bunch of people. People as disposable obstacles. Look at the gore effects as you explode someone! Wee!
It makes me sick to my stomach.
GAF'ers with military experience can perhaps give more insight than me, but the few times in my life I've been around when someone has been seriously injured, it's been terrible. It's a horrible thing to see someone potentially dying. I can't imagine what it'd be like to actually kill someone. And yet in video games, that's your goal, all the time - kill a bunch of people. People as disposable obstacles. Look at the gore effects as you explode someone! Wee!
It makes me sick to my stomach.
I am hoping developers/publishers will start to realize that there are great ways to engage gamers senses than mindless enemy encounters. But I think too many are afraid to leave the familiar in this regard.
Action being shoe-horned into so many games is starting to make me really tired of it and giving me an action-fatigue. I am getting really tired of cover-based shooting, shooting human enemies, and just a whole lot of these conventions all-together.
There are games of course that have no violence, and I don't think even killing is the problem. I think the biggest problem is that all of these games have the same sort of mechanics, the same sort of enemies, and many put them into the game in place of what could be other more interesting things. It's like some backwards world where developers are scared gamers will get bored if we don't have some cover-shooting segment in the face of some deeper possible enjoyment.
Action being shoe-horned into so many games is starting to make me really tired of it and giving me an action-fatigue. I am getting really tired of cover-based shooting, shooting human enemies, and just a whole lot of these conventions all-together.
There are games of course that have no violence, and I don't think even killing is the problem. I think the biggest problem is that all of these games have the same sort of mechanics, the same sort of enemies, and many put them into the game in place of what could be other more interesting things. It's like some backwards world where developers are scared gamers will get bored if we don't have some cover-shooting segment in the face of some deeper possible enjoyment.
Shadders, I do feel similarly.
Starting Max Payne 3 and Tomb Raider in the same week... it's crazy to me how many people I've "blown away".
It's not necessarily a new thing, but I've realised I'm increasing tired of it and if anything it seems to be more and more people, especially as games get "easier", the kill counts seem to keep rising.
Starting Max Payne 3 and Tomb Raider in the same week... it's crazy to me how many people I've "blown away".
It's not necessarily a new thing, but I've realised I'm increasing tired of it and if anything it seems to be more and more people, especially as games get "easier", the kill counts seem to keep rising.
there are plenty of non-violent games. maybe try some of those?
Why all the fighting? Why all the fuss?
I don't mind violent video games. However, it is really stupid in Uncharted, Tomb Raider, and Far Cry. You can't have a narrative about a good guy / neophyte, then 2 mins later he is mass murdering people left and right without any story. It just doesn't work. Its not about the violence, its about the plot/setting and the gameplay fitting. I mean, you can't really have a CoD game where the character just solves puzzles all day, so how do you have the opposite with no one batting an eye? If you look at the Prince o Persia games he fought sand demons and the like, at least I can suspend disbelief for something like that. When Nathan/Lara are killing 20 people every hour and taking ears as trophies its impossible for me to suspend disbelief.
Killing people in Max Payne 3 was awesome, some people were borderline insulted or disgusted with how the character models would get damaged, but I love that amount of realism and bleakness.Originally Posted by Zeouterlimits
Shadders, I do feel similarly.
Starting Max Payne 3 and Tomb Raider in the same week... it's crazy to me how many people I've "blown away".
It's not necessarily a new thing, but I've realised I'm increasing tired of it and if anything it seems to be more and more people, especially as games get "easier", the kill counts seem to keep rising.
Killing has been a key mechanic in games for decades - even Mario is based around death if you look at it.
Fact is that it remains a strong mechanic in terms of overcoming an obstacle or progressing.
Fact is that it remains a strong mechanic in terms of overcoming an obstacle or progressing.
Because it is hard to make a game about love between 2 people, how would you create and develop a game based on this emotion? Few have tried to create games based on psychological horror while few have even tried making games based on comedy, but this is still difficult to do.
How would you make a game about a group of guys who are starting a business and you need to help them make their company successful while still dealing with loans, personal life and personal relations to each other?
With "killing" there is a clear win and lose state, if you kill these enemies, then you win, if you do not, you lose. It is easy to program and make it function well
How would you make a game about a group of guys who are starting a business and you need to help them make their company successful while still dealing with loans, personal life and personal relations to each other?
With "killing" there is a clear win and lose state, if you kill these enemies, then you win, if you do not, you lose. It is easy to program and make it function well
This is why I like adventure games...
The industry hasn't grown enough yet to come up with ways to keep people entertained without combat, for the most part. We've had attempts but then you get something like Heavy Rain which is all QTE.
When you have a mass market AAA game the problem is only going to increase. You're never going to see a game of that kind with that budget sell itself with no combat or very limited combat.
When you have a mass market AAA game the problem is only going to increase. You're never going to see a game of that kind with that budget sell itself with no combat or very limited combat.
Nvm.
Last edited by Superior; 10-09-2013 at 12:12 PM.
They're just suppliers, They don't create the market for war. Did you think every game in history was all part of some big ol' conspiracy? Bullshit! Games are just of who we are. Why fight it?Is anyone else getting a bit tired of all the killing we do in games?
Last edited by Kickass667; 03-07-2013 at 04:17 PM.
Like Bulletstorm so succinctly put it, gamers have a murder boner and they play games that allow them to stroke it.
Same reason we have 'enemies' in pretty much every game outside the puzzle, sports and music genres: it's easy game design. Gives players an obvious objective, and antagonists.
Games without enemies are often seen as boring by gamers at large.
Games without enemies are often seen as boring by gamers at large.
This nothing new in gaming, Mario has been killing goombas for decades, Pacman has been eating ghosts since the early arcade days. The only difference now is there are more games where we kill by shooting but you can still find other methods of killing in other genres like platformers.
Developers are generally awful at establishing conflict with any sort of nuance.
You can't kill a ghost, silly.This nothing new in gaming, Mario has been killing goombas for decades, Pacman has been eating ghosts since the early arcade days. The only difference now is there are more games where we kill by shooting but you can still find other methods of killing in other genres like platformers.
Realistic combat is not fun for most people.
It's easy to program a pretty duck hunt than to come up with something novel that changes the way we interact with games.