• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dark Souls II - First review

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I think New Londo is great. The Ghost funhouse is a new kind of bullshit challenge, the second bit with the Darkwraiths is a nice change of pace, the area design is dripping with atmospheric details such as the body pit where the flood drained out to, and the area is pretty big when you include the optional parts. Also, it's fun being able to do it before you get the Lordvessel.

The only real black spot on its record for me is
no bonfire. Throwing one of the hardest bosses in the game at people after a long area with no Bonfire is just horrible, especially if the Firelink Bonfire is extinguished. I never personally had trouble with it, but I felt sorry watching my younger brother die and have to run again all the way there from Valley of the Drakes.

New Londo info:
You can bypass a lot of stuff on the way to The Four Kings by dropping down on to one of the arches after the water is drained.

I'm there at the moment on NG+ and it makes the horrible, crushing certainty of my defeat and the walk back there from Firelink Shrine OVER AND OVER AGAIN much more bearable. :)

Also? NG+ Four Kings. Fuck those guys. I lost 150K+ down there last night.
 

Gbraga

Member
Damn that preview is pretty damn great. I'm really looking forward to his review now. Is he doing one? Since he's no longer with Videogamer.
 
Just the impression those tweets leave. I can't even fathom being so upset over a word used in a video game review from a translation of a foreign magazine.

The game is hard. I know you guys are sooooo good and it's easy to you, and you have to proclaim that on GAF and twitter, but to the rest of the world it's hard. And of course reviews are going to point that out. Reviews are intended to give readers an idea of whether they would like the game or not.

Check out his other previous videos, he's far from what those tweets imply to you.

I see more proclamations for how hard these Souls games are, rather than the other way around. But like VaatiVidya and Matt Lee's preview explains, there's more to talk about the game than just its difficulty.

VaatiVidya: Dark Souls 2 first impressions
 

Draft

Member
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are harder than most games, especially adventure games. IDK, not really a controversial statement.
 

kitsuneyo

Member
I've been repeating this since Demon's Souls was released but I still don't understand why people qualify the Souls series as hard. It has the fairest, most straightforward and deep game mechanics I have ever seen in an roleplaying game.

I don't think any of the Souls games are hard, they are fair games. They require observation, they require that you improve as a player, rather than you to improve your character by grinding, and both you and your enemies are prone to the same rules, the same weaknesses and strengths that the game allows you to use.

Maybe you just don't understand what 'hard' means. It has nothing to do with fairness. It means the game is difficult to get through in comparison with other games, which it is for most players.
 

Gbraga

Member
I wrote that guy off after that embarrassing tirade against Killer is Dead

Me too, but don't let that cloud your judgment like I did, his Dark Souls II preview is great and make him one of the few games journalists (reviewers if he doesn't like that term) to actually talk about the game's mechanics with depth.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Mwahahaha, I've always thought the only way Dark Souls 2 would live up to the hype is if it was harder. I've been a sceptic, but now I'm psyched!
 
I wonder if I should get this having not played Demon Souls or Dark Souls before, i've read the plot is linked directly to Dark Souls 1 so...meh

And still you consider yourself a person? Do you fucking know who else didn't play Demon Souls and Dark Souls? The FUCKING nazis! Get a grip man!
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Oh, Ash Lake is also garbage. It may not be necessarily post lordvessel, but the lack of warping makes it even worse than it is, so it actually should be.

Definitely not wasting my time there on my NG+ playthrough.
Aww man I love Ash Lake. So beautiful, I never get tired of that vista. Even when I don't "need" any of the loot there, I go every playthrough. I always go there post-LV though, because I don't want to climb back up the tree.
 

Gbraga

Member
I wonder if I should get this having not played Demon Souls or Dark Souls before, i've read the plot is linked directly to Dark Souls 1 so...meh

Of course you should, but you also should play those games before, they're not corridor narrative driven games so when the sequel comes out the last one is inferior in every way. Just like there are people who prefer Demon's to Dark, I'm sure a ton of people will prefer Dark 1 over Dark 2.

Btw, really glad to know the plot is directly linked.

I hope I can be reunited with my one true love, Priscilla.

Woah, woah, woah - SHUT THE FFFFRIDGE! You can use both?!

I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA

Aww man I love Ash Lake. So beautiful, I never get tired of that vista. Even when I don't "need" any of the loot there, I go every playthrough. I always go there post-LV though, because I don't want to climb back up the tree.

Fuck climbing that tree hiojhofvjjjmo

FUCK
 

kick51

Banned
lol sure

He did make a great preview of the game back on the Videogamer channel, but he's now on his own.


he's also having a gut reaction to one translated line from an article, so I'm skeptical.

does the german really translate literally to "hard" as in "a big pain in the ass" or is it more like "challenging"
 

Fhtagn

Member
CJ said something very interesting and encouraging on the new twin humanities podcast: when he got to play DkS 2 for 3 hours, he played slowly and took in all the sights and explored everything thoroughly, while other people rushed ahead, and at the end of the three hours, it turned out he had managed to get further into the game by playing cautiously, than anyone else had by rushing.

Sounds about right to me.
 

ironcreed

Banned
And so it begins.

tumblr_mo9a5xARB51rnnop6o5_500.gif
 

ViviOggi

Member
he's also having a gut reaction to one translated line from an article, so I'm skeptical.

does the german really translate literally to "hard" as in "a big pain in the ass" or is it more like "challenging"
It can mean many things, I'd say in this case it's along the lines of "challenging" or "tough". I don't see a negative connotation there.

That being said it's a headline and most certainly not "the most interesting thing they can say". He's got his panties in a bunch over nothing.
 

kick51

Banned
It can mean many things, I'd say in this case it's along the lines of "challenging" or "tough". I don't see a negative connotation there.

That being said it's a headline and most certainly not "the most interesting thing they can say". He's got his panties in a bunch over nothing.



lol

called it!

his wording has that "i just read this headline and i am outrage and began tweeting about it immediately" feel to it
 
"The hardest Action-RPG in the world"

The whole "OMG Dark Souls is hard!" is getting rather stupid. Making a hard game is not difficult at all. I think it's misdirected praise.

Making a hard game without making it cheap or broken is very difficult. As a regular hard mode starter, I can guarantee you that.
And, not even bothering with any other difficulty modes? Ballsy as hell.
Too bad for those who can't take the heat though, but it's fine because most games are made for them anyways.
 
I actually don't mind if it takes a couple of months, so I can finish my NG+ and my new DEX character without suffering from not playing Dark Souls II haha

Maybe I would even have time for a Demon's Souls playthrough, just bought it this week.

I agree but for different reasons. My classes prevent me from playing games at the moment. I might have some free time to dedicate to Dark Souls 2 come May.
 

Cragvis

Member
My body is willing....not ready for the punishment of DS2, but very willing...

Cant wait to find all the heaviest armor and biggest shield so I can tank the game like I did in DS1. smough armor + havel shield + my array of spears = spiky tank.

I was able to tank all the bosses I wanted. never needed to roll.
 
Dunno who Lees is but he looks like a hyper-reactive attention-mongering "wow i'm an angry gamer!" asshole.

Hello!

Aye, I don't think I'm one of those. Having said that, stuff I say on Twitter tends to be far more aggressive & throwaway than stuff I make in videos, etc.

But in this case, I'd stand by my comments - if perhaps not the rage behind them. I was chatting to a games journo friend of mine recently who put it simply: A lot of reviews of Dark Souls 2 will be reviews of Dark Souls.

It always happen when you get sequels of cult games - people know they're cool, and so they don't want to appear *not* to be cool by saying they don't like the follow-up game. Happens all the time, think back about how many sequels you've played that got massively over-scored.

But with Dark Souls I think we're gonna see it BIG TIME. "really hard, great art style, rewarding gameplay" - Reads like Dark Souls. Tell me what's better/different this time, ya?
 

Gbraga

Member
Hello!

Aye, I don't think I'm one of those. Having said that, stuff I say on Twitter tends to be far more aggressive & throwaway than stuff I make in videos, etc.

But in this case, I'd stand by my comments - if perhaps not the rage behind them. I was chatting to a games journo friend of mine recently who put it simply: A lot of reviews of Dark Souls 2 will be reviews of Dark Souls.

It always happen when you get sequels of cult games - people know they're cool, and so they don't want to appear *not* to be cool by saying they don't like the follow-up game. Happens all the time, think back about how many sequels you've played that got massively over-scored.

But with Dark Souls I think we're gonna see it BIG TIME. "really hard, great art style, rewarding gameplay" - Reads like Dark Souls. Tell me what's better/different this time, ya?

You're absolutely right. It also happens backwards, like RE5 comes out and the press loves it, 9/10 GOTY contender, best RE yet, then they have time to see what the community thinks, and when RE6 comes out it gets criticized for not being a survival horror game by the same people.

EDIT: Are you reviewing this game?? Really liked both your previews, great work there.
 
Why do I see this in every DS thread? You guys clearly clicked the links, and then act like you don't want spoilers... like, why are you here then? I guess I don't understand.

They need everyone to know that they don't want to know anything about the game I guess
 

double jump

you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
Why do I see this in every DS thread? You guys clearly clicked the links, and then act like you don't want spoilers... like, why are you here then? I guess I don't understand.

think it has something to do with the masochistic tendencies of being ds fan.
 
Hello!

Aye, I don't think I'm one of those. Having said that, stuff I say on Twitter tends to be far more aggressive & throwaway than stuff I make in videos, etc.

But in this case, I'd stand by my comments - if perhaps not the rage behind them. I was chatting to a games journo friend of mine recently who put it simply: A lot of reviews of Dark Souls 2 will be reviews of Dark Souls.

It always happen when you get sequels of cult games - people know they're cool, and so they don't want to appear *not* to be cool by saying they don't like the follow-up game. Happens all the time, think back about how many sequels you've played that got massively over-scored.

But with Dark Souls I think we're gonna see it BIG TIME. "really hard, great art style, rewarding gameplay" - Reads like Dark Souls. Tell me what's better/different this time, ya?

Praise the sun, he's here!

Yeah, the reviews might get redundant if this is a sign of things to come.
 

Raxus

Member
I had a terrible time with Dark Souls because it lacked fast travel from the beginning. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you I spent almost 6 hours stuck in the Catacombs because I decided to prematurely venture inside that place.

Do you imagine the frustration of having to backtrack all the way from the entrance to Nito's lair to Firelink shrine at a low SL?

Six Hours. Completely wasted. How is that fair?

For me Dark Souls was a convoluted mess that was too obscure for its own good. It brings good ideas to the table but the execution of those is flawed and unpolished. I do believe those guys are completely aware of all the big mistakes they did in the 1st. Dark Souls and the fact that you will have fast travel enabled form the get to shows that they found one of the worst offenders quite early in the development.

I agree. While they designed the stuff very well for those with knowledge going into it, the game can be a nightmare for beginners. With the starting area you have 3 paths to travel. The path you should go to the Taurus Demon, the 'impossible path' to the ghosts, and the Catacombs. The problem is people and media play up Dark Souls in the wrong way giving new comers the impression 'This is unusually difficult but I guess that is par for the course' and to truck through something that is inevitably a dead end. Catacombs and the Tomb of Giants were clearly created with the idea of Homeward Bones and fast travel in mind.

As far as the impossible path goes, you have to use curse or a special item to fight the ghost and the game gives you no context (that I know of) to do this. The closest thing is the item you get before the bridge is such an item that gives you the 'curse effect' without the side effects. Again new players will have no idea how important that item is and how to replenish it without some aforementioned knowledge.

The regular path provides a stiff challenge for beginners but is fair and what I tout Dark Souls to be at its best. I kind of wish the tutorial kind of extended through undead berg so new players could get acclimated to the game and learn to keep your defenses up at all times and to play slower. So many play through it like a hack and slash and quickly get their asses handed to them as a result. Especially fighting enemies who also defend and guard the very first vendor you meet.
 
It's like reviewers only scratch the surface of the game and shout "So hard OMG!"
The Souls series has far more qualities than it's "difficulty" and I wish the game was also publicly known for more than "It's so hard".
Every time I talk with a casual gamer about Dark Souls the first thing they say is: "Isn't that this super duper hard RPG?" And they avoided the game because they heard that.

Get the other qualities of this series across to the masses.

Yes, I'll be making an in-depth video review about Dark Souls 2 sometime after launch, for sure. Since going freelance I'm sort of trying to change the way I work at the moment, though - which means I'll likely buy Dark Souls 2 rather than deal with Namco's PR. So yeah, my review will be later than most.

Looking forward to it, Matt. Enjoying your videos.
 
EDIT: Are you reviewing this game?? Really liked both your previews, great work there.

Yes, I'll be making an in-depth video review about Dark Souls 2 sometime after launch, for sure. Since going freelance I'm sort of trying to change the way I work at the moment, though - which means I'll likely buy Dark Souls 2 rather than deal with Namco's PR. So yeah, my review will be later than most.
 

Gbraga

Member
I agree. While they designed the stuff very well for those with knowledge going into it, the game can be a nightmare for beginners. With the starting area you have 3 paths to travel. The path you should go to the Taurus Demon, the 'impossible path' to the ghosts, and the Catacombs. The problem is people and media play up Dark Souls in the wrong way giving new comers the impression 'This is unusually difficult but I guess that is par for the course' and to truck through something that is inevitably a dead end.

As far as the impossible path goes, you have to use curse or a special item to fight the ghost and the game gives you no context (that I know of) to do this. The closest thing is the item you get before the bridge is such an item that gives you the 'curse effect' without the side effects. Again new players will have no idea how important that item is and how to replenish it without some aforementioned knowledge.

The regular path provides a stiff challenge for beginners but is fair and what I tout Dark Souls to be at its best. I kind of wish the tutorial kind of extended through undead berg so new players could get acclimated to the game and learn to keep your defenses up at all times and to play slower. So many play through it like a hack and slash and quickly get their asses handed to them as a result. Especially fighting enemies who also defend and guard the very first vendor you meet.

I really like that about the game, though. You go to the ghosts and you can't harm them, so you go back. During your adventure you end up in the Depths, near the entrance to Blighttown, there an NPC will tell you about the curse, and how it's one of the few ways to fight ghosts.

There is no popup there saying THOSE ENEMIES CAN ONLY DIE AGAINST CURSED PLAYERS

I went into it blind and had no problems at all to find out those things.

EDIT: To be fair I did have some outside knowledge. I was playing at the same time as some friends, and they were also playing it blind, so sharing our experiences and asking around played their roles too. But that's yet another positive aspect of the game.

Not trying to make your problems with it seem unimportant, I just think that when people love and hate a game for the same reasons, that is a good indication that their goal was achieved. You can't please everyone, after all.

Yes, I'll be making an in-depth video review about Dark Souls 2 sometime after launch, for sure. Since going freelance I'm sort of trying to change the way I work at the moment, though - which means I'll likely buy Dark Souls 2 rather than deal with Namco's PR. So yeah, my review will be later than most.

Nice, can't wait for it. I'm waiting for the PC version anyway so the delay doesn't affect me at all.
 

Randam

Member
What?
I, too traveled down into the tomb of giants just to end up on front of a yellow fog gate.
And the whole experience was one I had with game.

About new londo and the ghosts:
And how about you guys start reading the descriptions of new items you find? ;)
"Limb of the victim of a curse. Temporary curse allows engagement with ghosts. The only way to fight back against ghosts, who are cursed beings, is to become cursed oneself. The safest method, however dreadful, is to cut off an arm of the dead."
 
Yes, I'll be making an in-depth video review about Dark Souls 2 sometime after launch, for sure. Since going freelance I'm sort of trying to change the way I work at the moment, though - which means I'll likely buy Dark Souls 2 rather than deal with Namco's PR. So yeah, my review will be later than most.

Nice to hear :)
 
So how can I be sure this isn't a bullshit review by bullshit people?

Where's epicnamebro and vaatvidya's reviews... that's what I need to see....
 

BigDug13

Member
I agree. While they designed the stuff very well for those with knowledge going into it, the game can be a nightmare for beginners. With the starting area you have 3 paths to travel. The path you should go to the Taurus Demon, the 'impossible path' to the ghosts, and the Catacombs. The problem is people and media play up Dark Souls in the wrong way giving new comers the impression 'This is unusually difficult but I guess that is par for the course' and to truck through something that is inevitably a dead end. Catacombs and the Tomb of Giants were clearly created with the idea of Homeward Bones and fast travel in mind.

As far as the impossible path goes, you have to use curse or a special item to fight the ghost and the game gives you no context (that I know of) to do this. The closest thing is the item you get before the bridge is such an item that gives you the 'curse effect' without the side effects. Again new players will have no idea how important that item is and how to replenish it without some aforementioned knowledge.

The regular path provides a stiff challenge for beginners but is fair and what I tout Dark Souls to be at its best. I kind of wish the tutorial kind of extended through undead berg so new players could get acclimated to the game and learn to keep your defenses up at all times and to play slower. So many play through it like a hack and slash and quickly get their asses handed to them as a result. Especially fighting enemies who also defend and guard the very first vendor you meet.

The first paragraph happened to me. I've always heard how brutal this series was and so I explore a bit in the first hub area and discover this path under the elevator that leads to a bunch of chests where you get the mace n' stuff. Then the only way to get out of there is to drop down and immediately agro those 2 skeletons. That's where I started dying and my brain kept saying I needed to go get my body and keep trying to advance through those skeletons, not even realizing that I"m not even supposed to be down there at all. It took 3 hours of beating my head against the wall of trying to survive with enough souls to be able to level up once that I looked online and found out I'm not even supposed to touch those skeletons yet.

Then I went the right way and the game was WAY easier (not easy, just easIER now that I wasn't beating my head against the wall dying over and over to those skeletons). Now I realize that if it's too tough, just go somewhere else because I'm probably not supposed to be there yet.

One thing I wish the series did have though, was a way in the menus to replay some of the dialog. I guess I'll have to do it old school and take notes, because I'm quite forgetful and something an NPC says that's important for later in the game will be forgotten by me once I get there.
 

jimi_dini

Member
It reminds me of when I accidentally did the entire Thermal Visor bit in the sunken ship in Metroid Prime without the Gravity Suit and then realized I'd have to do tons of underwater platforming back up without the Gravity Suit. I was pretty pissed off at how dumb I was to forget that bit, but I also found it hilarious.

You too?

I did exactly that. Couldn't see shit and it took 10 or 20 minutes to get out of there lol
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
So how can I be sure this isn't a bullshit review by bullshit people?

Where's epicnamebro and vaatvidya's reviews... that's what I need to see....
M!games is and always has been a fantastic magazine over here, they are probably as close as you can get being honest and part of the fanbase without being a PR slave.
I would trust them more than most youtubers that i love when it comes to objectivity and gaming knowledge. Read that mag since i was a kid, now I'm over 30.

Yeah, you can trust them, as much as magazines go.
 
Top Bottom