So do you also set "E.Mode - Game", or is that not necessary?
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People people people ! Set your HDTV up correctly for consoles/PC !
- Thread starter DodgyGeezerFella
- Start date
So do you also set "E.Mode - Game", or is that not necessary?
Seriously?! That explains that then. Is this reported anywhere?
Apparently there are issues with PS4 as well: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=717488 Either that or there are a lot of TVs that aren't interpreting the signal correctly. Guess I should have been paying attention.
Well, thanks to this thread I just learned that my tv (seems to) supports Full RGB lol
Anywho, got a 32" Samgsung here, switching it over to pc makes everything look extremely soft whereas Game made everything look kind of hard. The colors seem washed out but setting my PS3 to full RGB output somewhat negates that. Haven't checked to see how games look just yet, will do that later but I'm not really liking how soft and blurry the picture is so far.
Anywho, got a 32" Samgsung here, switching it over to pc makes everything look extremely soft whereas Game made everything look kind of hard. The colors seem washed out but setting my PS3 to full RGB output somewhat negates that. Haven't checked to see how games look just yet, will do that later but I'm not really liking how soft and blurry the picture is so far.
Polioliolio
Member
Oh, that's what I have too. I'll use PC from now on then. Thanks buddy!
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
And here's something from a Samsung support page, with another visual example -
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/faq/FAQ00055865/67942/HL67A750A1FXZA
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/faq/FAQ00055865/67942/HL67A750A1FXZA
deranged_666
Member
Here's the thing I can't wrap my head around...
So, certain higher end TVs (I have an LG LM7600) DO support displaying Full RGB range (0-255). You have an option to switch back and forth in the TV Settings for whatever HDMI Input you are on.
So, why would you set this to Full and then have the PS3/PS4/whatever set to "Limited"? If you're essentially telling the TV to expect a Full Range signal, shouldn't the console also be set to output the same full range signal? Why would you have those settings mismatched?
Makes 0 sense to me, yet half the people in these threads say to do so, while the other half say to make sure they match.
So, certain higher end TVs (I have an LG LM7600) DO support displaying Full RGB range (0-255). You have an option to switch back and forth in the TV Settings for whatever HDMI Input you are on.
So, why would you set this to Full and then have the PS3/PS4/whatever set to "Limited"? If you're essentially telling the TV to expect a Full Range signal, shouldn't the console also be set to output the same full range signal? Why would you have those settings mismatched?
Makes 0 sense to me, yet half the people in these threads say to do so, while the other half say to make sure they match.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Yes, I'm not sure what has changed when I flip these around. I'm not sure if I'm helping my image or hurting it.
Hmmm. I can only speak from my experience with a Panasonic S60 Plasma. I've touched on it some in this thread, but I'll explain further. Sorry in advance for the long post, but it seems folks are definitely interested in learning more about this. I'm no expert, but here's what I've learned just through experience, trial and error.
My TV has 3 RGB options: Auto, Nonstandard (0-255), and Standard (16-235). By default, my tv was set to "standard." With my PS3, I always had its RGB set to "limited." Thus, the TV and the PS3 matched, both requesting a standard RGB setting.
Enter the PS4.
By default, the PS4's RGB range is set to "Auto." It even shows up as the "recommended" setting. Here's where things get strange for me. Having my PS4 on auto and my tv on standard resulted in massively crushed blacks. If you aren't sure, just pull up the PS4 web browser and go to this link: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php At least the first two rows were completely invisible for me, which isn't what you want at all.
I can only assume there was some type of miscommunication between my PS4 and the TV. With the PS4 set to auto and my tv set to standard, the PS4 should have detected this and thus, output in the limited RGB setting. Instead, I think it detected only that my TV was capable of outputting the Full RGB, never detecting that's not what I had enabled on the TV. Again, the default option on the TV was set to "standard."
The moment I changed my TV over to "nonstandard" or even "auto," the PS4 image instantly became brighter. The crushed blacks were gone. I was absolutely stunned. The same thing was true if I switched the PS4 to Limited and left the TV on Standard.
I played around with the settings a bit more and here's what worked for me. With the following PS4 and TV RGB settings, my PS4 picture was excellent and there are no crushed blacks.
PS4: Auto
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard
PS4: Full
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard
PS4: Limited
TV: Standard
The next set of settings always result in crushed blacks for me.
PS4: Auto
TV: Standard
PS4: Limited
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard
PS4: Full
TV: Standard
I should also add that your other calibration settings for your TV certainly play a role as well. I kept applying settings I had found online by trusted sources, so it made no sense to me that everything still appeared incredibly dark in my games. So much so, that I had to crank up the in-game brightness settings for both Battlefield 4 and Tomb Raider.
When I finally figured out the correct RGB for my PS4 and TV, I went back and re-applied those settings (I used the ones from CNET). I opened up the PS4 browser and used the black level test I linked to previously. Again, I was stunned. It was nearly perfect and the first two squares were the only ones I had trouble seeing. A few tweaks to the brightness and my black level was perfect.
I elected to leave my settings on PS4 as Auto and the TV as Auto. Some games don't even take advantage of the shades of black you can get with the Full RGB, but this this ensures I would get that extra level of detail for a game that happened to use it. 99% of the time though, you'll be fine with either RGB Full or RGB Limited....so long as you make sure the PS4 settings match the TV.
Wishmaster92
Member
How do you know some games are only limited rgb? I thought all ps4 games are 0-255?
Me too, I got some crapy Super General TV and I can not rename HDMI input to PC.
From what I've read, all games are...technically. But it was my understanding that not all of them take full advantage of it nor will it show up as a very big difference. I could be wrong...but most HDTVs don't even support Full RGB.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
RGB colourspace is really not that complicated. It always has to match. If done right limited and full will look almost identical:
PS4 limited/TV limited -> right, nice balanced picture.
PS4 full/TV Limited -> dark picture, crushed blacks.
PS4 limited/TV full -> washed out picture.
PS4 full/TV full -> right, nice balanced picture.
BUT it only works if your TV supports full.
PS4 limited/TV limited -> right, nice balanced picture.
PS4 full/TV Limited -> dark picture, crushed blacks.
PS4 limited/TV full -> washed out picture.
PS4 full/TV full -> right, nice balanced picture.
BUT it only works if your TV supports full.
Correct.
For me though, it took forever to figure this out b/c my PS4 was on "Auto" by default while my TV was on "Standard (16-235)" by default. PS4 didn't send the correct signal in this scenario.
Wish I knew this before now, did it last night and it really makes tweaking settings easier cause it disables the majority or picture and advanced options.
So on RGB, full or limited, I'm not sure I follow the difference.
Edit:
So if my TV supports full that's what I should set it and the PS4, PS3 etc to, and if the game or console supports it then it will use 0-255, but if not then it won't hurt the picture?
So on RGB, full or limited, I'm not sure I follow the difference.
Edit:
So if my TV supports full that's what I should set it and the PS4, PS3 etc to, and if the game or console supports it then it will use 0-255, but if not then it won't hurt the picture?
Since there is no standard in which games are created nobody except developers know. Might be an interesting idea for an article for Digital Foundry.
VE3TRO
Formerly Gizmowned
Been using PC mode on my Samsung for about 2-3 years. Only found it out when I needed to use my LED as a monitor for my PC and the picture was terrible.
I did use Gamemode now and then but PC is much better. Only thing is I don't know how correct the colors are in terms of White balance.
Any good ways of getting this calibrated correctly?
I did use Gamemode now and then but PC is much better. Only thing is I don't know how correct the colors are in terms of White balance.
Any good ways of getting this calibrated correctly?
Since most settings are locked when putting the Samsung in PC mode, you need to manipulate the picture using your settings in the nvidia or AMD control center.
Get a colormeter and use the software it comes with.
Like this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055MBQOW/?tag=neogaf0e-20
But since the vast majority of content displayed on TVs is 16-235, shouldn't games that are developed to display on a TV conform to that standard?
Are there any developers that do configure their games to display optimally on correctly calibrated displays?
But games are created in PC environments which are 0-255. You can already see that this is a little complicated.
I just googled a calibration setting for my Samsung model and used that. I ended up turning off all the image processing stuff and it looks amazing now.
When I switched to PC mode, the image doesn't look as good and the lag is essentially no different. Is there something else special about PC mode?
Btw my samsung model is UNES8000
When I switched to PC mode, the image doesn't look as good and the lag is essentially no different. Is there something else special about PC mode?
Btw my samsung model is UNES8000
It would be silly to do that in games. It's something the console OS should (optionally) instruct the HW to do when generating the output signal. You don't lose anything by having the game generate a full RGB signal and then converting to limited, while you would lose information going the other way around.
Ricerocket
Member
LG TV - PC mode / Black level high (full) / Sharpness 50 (0 for other displays)
PS3/360/PC - full
Just match them. I've only recently learned of changing inputs to PC and the pictures are way more natural and cleaner looking.
PS3/360/PC - full
Just match them. I've only recently learned of changing inputs to PC and the pictures are way more natural and cleaner looking.
WOW! I literally have the same TV you do OP and holy shit do my games look different now.
I was thinking the same thing after I bought my PS4: "It looks good, but I expected better."
Changed the source to PC and it's like playing on a different machine all of a sudden. Strider and Resogun looker even crisper and colors are sharper. Thanks for saving next-gen for me
I was thinking the same thing after I bought my PS4: "It looks good, but I expected better."
Changed the source to PC and it's like playing on a different machine all of a sudden. Strider and Resogun looker even crisper and colors are sharper. Thanks for saving next-gen for me
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Thank you for this thread.
I tried to figure out FOR AGES why the fuck my HDTV picture looked so damn ugly. It never occured to me to switch the name of my input port to "PC". Now every input is called PC for a clearer image everywhere.
Before that the image looked horribly JPEG-ish. Now it's super awesome and clean.
Thanks again.
I tried to figure out FOR AGES why the fuck my HDTV picture looked so damn ugly. It never occured to me to switch the name of my input port to "PC". Now every input is called PC for a clearer image everywhere.
Before that the image looked horribly JPEG-ish. Now it's super awesome and clean.
Thanks again.
I have the same TV and would like to know that too.
Anyone knows a good calibration guide for this model? I don't even know if I can rename the input as PC.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
So for anyone who understands these things better than me, 4:4:4 chroma, do all PC monitors have this ? If so, why dont some HDTV's ?
Done this on my Samsung UE46F7000. Picture looks a lot smoother, less sharp, a little blurry almost? I'm trying to get used to it. Definitely more responsive though, I take it the picture I'm getting now is what the Developers of games wanted me to see?
Edit: Gaming on mostly a PS4, We will see what it's like on Xbox One when I get it next week.
Edit: Gaming on mostly a PS4, We will see what it's like on Xbox One when I get it next week.
MisterXDTV
Member
On my Sharp 32" Full-HD, I have to set "Movie Mode" to get the Gamma right otherwise it's crushed being too low
My TV doesn't support full RGB so I set limited RGB for PS4 and 4:4:4 YCbCr for PC on ATI Catalyst Center....
My TV doesn't support full RGB so I set limited RGB for PS4 and 4:4:4 YCbCr for PC on ATI Catalyst Center....
This is weird. My Phiips LED 40PFL3008T gives, from what I understand, crushed black if I turn on full RGB (Xbone) and HDMI True Black on my TV. If I disable both, same result. However, if I pick limited on Xbone and turn on True Black on the TV = No crushed black.
Besides can anyone recommend some settings? I've tried the calibration tool but I feel something is missing. Also, the game mode doesn't work, since sharpness is set at 26 and you cant adjust, weird.
Besides can anyone recommend some settings? I've tried the calibration tool but I feel something is missing. Also, the game mode doesn't work, since sharpness is set at 26 and you cant adjust, weird.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
That was my first thought when renamed to PC, that it looked a little blurry, but i think that was a symptom of having crazy sharpness added in the first place, and now i was viewing it correctly. Checking out the PSN store confirmed this, as everything looked incredibly sharp and detailed.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Wow, I followed a bunch of advice from this thread and can't believe how much deeper and richer the colors are across all of the devices attached to my TV now. I didn't even realize that there was a problem, but now when I switch back I can't even stand to look at the screen.
What made the most difference for me was first of all changing the basic display setting from Vivid to Movie (Samsung here), but also tweaking the White Balance settings. Here is a set that I found through random searching online, and it worked wonders:
10pt White Balance On
Interval Red Green Blue
1 0 0 1
2 -1 0 -1
3 0 0 1
4 -1 0 0
5 -1 0 +1
6 0 -1 -1
7 -1 -1 -2
8 0 2 1
9 +1 0 0
10 +2 0 0
White Balance
Setting Value
R-Offset 25
G-Offset 25
B-Offset 27
R-Gain 19
G-Gain 22
B-Gain 21
Edit: This also includes renaming the input to "PC." All of this applies to my cable box. Everything runs through a receiver, and when the cable box is selected I am able to change all of the settings. When my PC or Wii U or PS3 are selected, though, I am not able to change very many settings. I can only choose the display setting, which is either the "energy saving" one or a new one called "entertainment." It works wonderfully, though, so I'm not complaining.
What made the most difference for me was first of all changing the basic display setting from Vivid to Movie (Samsung here), but also tweaking the White Balance settings. Here is a set that I found through random searching online, and it worked wonders:
10pt White Balance On
Interval Red Green Blue
1 0 0 1
2 -1 0 -1
3 0 0 1
4 -1 0 0
5 -1 0 +1
6 0 -1 -1
7 -1 -1 -2
8 0 2 1
9 +1 0 0
10 +2 0 0
White Balance
Setting Value
R-Offset 25
G-Offset 25
B-Offset 27
R-Gain 19
G-Gain 22
B-Gain 21
Edit: This also includes renaming the input to "PC." All of this applies to my cable box. Everything runs through a receiver, and when the cable box is selected I am able to change all of the settings. When my PC or Wii U or PS3 are selected, though, I am not able to change very many settings. I can only choose the display setting, which is either the "energy saving" one or a new one called "entertainment." It works wonderfully, though, so I'm not complaining.
Great now your white balance is most likely even more fucked than before.
Seriously people you can't just use someone else's white balance settings (and even more so not the detailed 10pt settings) on your own panel. Every panel is different.
The guy who calibrated that TV(if it is calibrated at all) also had no fucking idea what he was doing since he touched the green values. You leave them alone for a reference point and only tweak red and blue, there are very few cases where you should manipulate green.
Seriously people you can't just use someone else's white balance settings (and even more so not the detailed 10pt settings) on your own panel. Every panel is different.
The guy who calibrated that TV(if it is calibrated at all) also had no fucking idea what he was doing since he touched the green values. You leave them alone for a reference point and only tweak red and blue, there are very few cases where you should manipulate green.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Sorry bro, what should I do?
Leave it at the default values if you don't want to pay for a professional calibrator. Or get a colormeter at Amazon and use the guide over at Curtpalme to learn it yourself.
White balance is not something you can adjust with the naked eye or just copy some settings from someone else.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055MBQOW/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322
White balance is not something you can adjust with the naked eye or just copy some settings from someone else.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055MBQOW/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322
Calamari41
41 > 38
Thanks for the tips. It seems like I was attributing the improvements to the white balance adjustments when they really belonged to the other, more major stuff I did. I'll turn them all back to default.
nevermore2782
Member
Tried to search out my situation in the thread, didn't see anything similar but maybe one of you knowledgeable gentlemen can help...
So I have a 50" Samsung Smart TV that supports full RGB, which then goes to a sony home theater. The home theater unit has 2 HDMI passthroughs on which I have an xbox one and a playstation 4. My question is, with this setup can I get the full RGB benefit? or will the passthrough through the receiver screw with it somehow?
So I have a 50" Samsung Smart TV that supports full RGB, which then goes to a sony home theater. The home theater unit has 2 HDMI passthroughs on which I have an xbox one and a playstation 4. My question is, with this setup can I get the full RGB benefit? or will the passthrough through the receiver screw with it somehow?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Question. With my Onkyo 7.1 set-up, when I watch something in 5.1 (using the Direct setting on the receiver) my sound comes out the front 3 speakers just fine, but then the other 2 speakers are the side two and the back 2 speakers are shut off.
Is there any way to make 5.1 the front 3 speakers and the back 2, as opposed to the front 3 and the side 2?
Is there any way to make 5.1 the front 3 speakers and the back 2, as opposed to the front 3 and the side 2?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Well apparently my PS3 looked "off" to me because my TV wanted the Full Range color. Thanks thread! I never would have tried it otherwise!
nevermore2782
Member
interesting, after fiddling around with the settings after work, indeed setting everything to full makes games look way the hell more rich and the blacks are deep black but no as crushed as before. As I mentioned before, I run the xbox one and ps4 through my sony hometheater bluray, and that has settings for 4:2:2, 4:4:4, RGB and auto....using auto there works best, and for my source, selecting PC makes everything washed out, but selecting bluray made everything pop and look excellent. Like you guys have been saying, you can't just blindly plug in numbers and settings, you have to experiment to where you're happy, but wouldn't have messed with it otherwise without this thread. Thanks!!
Deadceptor
Member
Thanks guys, thanks GAF. You just solved all my problems related to crushed/washed blacks and pixelated images. Can't fucking believe how awesome the image is on my PS4 now. There's also a massive reduction in lag, really noticeable in multiplayer (BF4).
My TV's a 42" Samsung, can't remember the model but it was a last LCD flagship model that came out before LED&3D models.
My TV's a 42" Samsung, can't remember the model but it was a last LCD flagship model that came out before LED&3D models.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Still curious about this.
Also you guys told me to set my Onkyo to "Direct" and use "Linear PCM" on the PS4, but with that my back 2 speakers are useless. Should I keep it on direct only though it only uses the front 3 and side 2?