Support NeoGAF

[Gbraga]

That post was in response to a person who is no longer buying the game due to graphics.




Game Journalists aren't the only ones who think you people are crazy.

Not graphics, but not delivering what was promised. There's a huge difference. If the graphics were great but the game didn't have dual wielding, bows were the same and there were tons of Bed of Chaos boss battles, would you still be mad that he cancelled the preorder just because the game is still good?

I wouldn't cancel my preorder over this either, in fact, I'm about to place my pre-order of the PC version, can't wait for the soundtrack and artbook, but there's nothing wrong with him cancelling his.

The only crazy thing is that if you accept every bullshit devs and publishers throw at you you're normal, but if you don't, you're an idiot.

I'm glad I'm on the right team this time, then.

 

[Arkanius]

That post was in response to a person who is no longer buying the game due to graphics.




Game Journalists aren't the only ones who think you people are crazy.

I'm no longer buying the game because I was lied. It's like Assassins Creed selling you a new mechanic (boats) and then making it only available on a lake, and you can't even move the boat.

They sold us a gameplay mechanic, a new engine, a new way to experience Dark Souls, and they ended up giving us a Dark Souls DLC. Hell, even the new Sorcery mechanic was scrapped from the beta.
That's NOT what I wanted. I wanted new stuff, not more of the old stuff.

What is sickening is that they are still selling the game by telling us that it's the stuff we saw from all the demos until now, while it's clearly not. It's a very different beast.

 

[dazzlerazzle]

I propose to create new PR marketing bullshit non existing word
WATCHDOGIFICATION

 

[Yoda]

Those gaming journalists, defenders of the truth and moving the industry forward!

Corporate schills, if the downgrade was done for the benefit of a better frame-rate that's quite literally all they need to say lol, instead its bait + switch + silence/fanboy defense.

 

[Havel]

I didn't say you were wrong. In fact I agree that the true console version should have been shown more prior to release to highlight the difference. However I do disagree that they should have kept the same engine because of the consoles. My point is the game isn't exactly ruined because of this.



lol They all lead back to this thread. Of course the press is going to run with it.

The fact they link back to this thread is irrelevant. Everything needs a source, and GAF is the source this time. Of course they will link back here. The main thing is it's gaining coverage. It has even been been mentioned in a couple of reviews.

 

[Stet]

That post was in response to a person who is no longer buying the game due to graphics.

No longer buying the game due to the *change in graphics*. People decide not to buy for a lot of reasons, and mistreatment or unfair advertising is a big button for some. His decision doesn't speak to the quality of the game, nor does it speak to your enjoyment of the game.

 

[Gbraga]

Corporate schills, if the downgrade was done for the benefit of a better frame-rate that's quite literally all they need to say lol, instead its bait + switch + silence/fanboy defense.

I guess the problem with that is that it pretty much implies the PC version must have those effects

 

[Arkanius]

No longer buying the game due to the *change in graphics*. People decide not to buy for a lot of reasons, and mistreatment or unfair advertising is a big button for some. His decision doesn't speak to the quality of the game, nor does it speak to your enjoyment of the game.

Exactly.
Look, I'm not coming to your home and snapping your disk in half, so you can calm down Servebot. I would probably enjoy Dark Souls 2 as IT IS right now if I was not lied about what I was getting.

I was, and trust is valuable to me. I'm on a wait and see approach with the PC version, but I only have a little hope regarding that.

 

[CountAntonius]

The fact they link back to this thread is irrelevant. Everything needs a source, and GAF is the source this time. Of course they will link back here.

I don't think it's irrelevant. This is the central hub for the outrage. Again i'm not saying anyone is wrong I just don't think the game is ruined because of a graphical downgrade. If it was I think people everywhere would be complaining about it and that isn't even the case in the OT on GAF.

 

[Grief.exe]

For some of the skeptics out there saying that the early footage was a PC build of DS2.

Then explain the TGS hands on, with the game running on actual PS3 hardware. With all the lighting effects intact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-xM2tzljA

HDMI outlets in the walls piping to computers.

 

[Servbot24]

No longer buying the game due to the *change in graphics*. People decide not to buy for a lot of reasons, and mistreatment or unfair advertising is a big button for some. His decision doesn't speak to the quality of the game, nor does it speak to your enjoyment of the game.

I mean, it's his prerogative if he wants to give up the entire game due to this issue. Seems remarkably uptight and fussy and borderline neurotic to me, but it's up to him.

 

[Arkanius]

I mean, it's his prerogative if he wants to give up the entire game due to this issue. Seems remarkably uptight and fussy and borderline neurotic to me, but it's up to him.

Are you one of the consumers that was ok with SimCity?

 

[Maxathon]

Pretty damn shameful. liking the game is one thing but ignoring a false advertising case and calling people crazy or "happens all the time" like it is nothing because you like the series is just sad.

Gaming journalism is a complete joke nowadays because of this.

The idea that there was ever an objective enthusiast press is fantasy. Giant Bomb is noteworthy as a mainstream site (i.e., not something like Critical Distance which targets effete doofs like me) that acknowledges the subjectivity and taste/personality-driven nature of criticism.

They are not obligated to be bummed out about the thing you're bummed out about. The fact that they don't report it in the way that you wish they would isn't bad journalism.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Also here are some screenshots of the Aching Bones trailer, the 1080p 60 fps one which is obviously on pc AND has the lighting. I don't see a generational difference besides the obvious 1080p 60 fps.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

I don't think it's irrelevant. This is the central hub for the outrage. Again i'm not saying anyone is wrong I just don't think the game is ruined because of a graphical downgrade. If it was I think people everywhere would be complaining about it and that isn't even the case in the OT on GAF.

OTs are almost always overwhelmingly positive, regardless of the game.

 

[Servbot24]

Are you one of the consumers that was ok with SimCity?

I haven't played it. Sounds like the entire game was broken though. If I bought DkSII and the whole thing was broken I'd be having just as big of a shit fit as the rest of you.

 

[jimmypython]

FYI

Gamespot's Kevin Vanord (who did the review and is a huge fan of the series) is going to live stream darksouls2 and answer questions.

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/dark-souls-ii-now-playing/2300-6417644/

 

[Havel]

I don't think it's irrelevant. This is the central hub for the outrage. Again i'm not saying anyone is wrong I just don't think the game is ruined because of a graphical downgrade. If it was I think people everywhere would be complaining about it and that isn't even the case in the OT on GAF.

You are always going to get people who don't give a shit about it. The average consumer isn't really going to care, sure. But that doesn't make this whole thing any less bullshit.

 

[dan2026]

You guys are acting like someone is forcing you to buy it.

If it doesn't meet your expectations, don't get it and move on.

There are a ton of other games worthy of cash.

 

[Garcia]

I don't think it's irrelevant. This is the central hub for the outrage. Again i'm not saying anyone is wrong I just don't think the game is ruined because of a graphical downgrade. If it was I think people everywhere would be complaining about it and that isn't even the case in the OT on GAF.

Dude, weren't you around when the outrage started inside the OT?

There's a very specific reason why this thread exists: It was impossible to constructively discuss the negative aspects of the game in there.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

You guys are acting like someone is forcing you to buy it.

If it doesn't meet your expectations, don't get it and move on.

There are a ton of other games worthy of cash.

Moving on in silence is exactly why things like this can continue to happen.

Stifling discussion about what is a shitty situation is wrong. You're more than welcome to step out of the topic if it bothers you so much!

 

[A-V-B]

You guys are acting like someone is forcing you to buy it.

If it doesn't meet your expectations, don't get it and move on.

There are a ton of other games worthy of cash.

Some people are what's known as fans, which means there's an emotional connection involved.

 

[dan2026]

Moving on in silence is exactly why things like this can continue to happen.

No buying it anyway even though you complained bitterly about it, it what causes this to still happen.

Some people are what's known as fans, which means there's an emotional connection involved.

And fan is short for fanatic. And some of you people are being extremely fanatical about this.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Looking at these comparisons make me feel sick.

It does seem odd that a sequel has inferior graphics to the original.

PC save us!

Especially with the PS3 version demoed to ppl being vastly different than the $60 retail version ppl paid cold hard cash for.

 

[Havel]

HDMI outlets in the walls piping to computers.

Do we have any proof of this?

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

No buying it anyway even though you complained bitterly about it, it what causes this to still happen.

Both are equally to blame, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to believe that simply walking away will cause anything to get done.

 

[RedSwirl]

People no assume crafting vertical slices is common with western developers, but do we even know if it's that much of a trend with Japanese developers?

 

[CountAntonius]

Also here are some screenshots of the Aching Bones trailer, the 1080p 60 fps one which is obviously on pc AND has the lighting. I don't see a generational difference besides the obvious 1080p 60 fps.

Yeah. Lighting makes a huge difference in this game. The darkness covered up a lot of the washed out muck you can see now that it's gone. I said this earlier but the contrasts reminds me of what I went through with CS:GO recently. I turned the shaders from very high to low because it's killed off bloom and a lot of after effects and is gave the game a more colorful pastel look to the models. Now for GO this is what I wanted since it's a competitive FPS. I think this was what they did for performance reasons.

 

[dan2026]

Both are equally to blame, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to believe that simply walking away will cause anything to get done.

I don't believe it will change anything really either.

But I do think moaning endlessly about a game then throwing cash at it is hypocritical and dumb.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Patrick and Brad

.

Pretty damn shameful. liking the game is one thing but ignoring a false advertising case and calling people crazy or "happens all the time" like it is nothing because you like the series is just sad.

Gaming journalism is a complete joke nowadays because of this.

WOW. You know. I love DkS2, but to act like were nothing but "crazy" folk for bringing up the huge change in graphics? Are you kidding me? Extremely disrespectful guys, and if your reading this, I'd like to hope you realize exactly what were refering too with all this talk here. I mean I don't get it. Is it just me or are a big majority of these journalist and even DkS youtubbers, just passing this off like it's no big deal. I don't understand.

 

[A-V-B]

No buying it anyway even though you complained bitterly about it, it what causes this to still happen.



And fan is short for fanatic. And some of you people are being extremely fanatical about this.

Ah, yes. Extremist video gamers. Death to the non-belieblahblahblahblah...

 

[Servbot24]

I don't believe it will change anything really either.

But I do think moaning endlessly about a game then throwing cash at it is hypocritical and dumb.

1 sale doesn't really make a difference. You can do far more damage by bad-mouthing the game on Twitter/GAF. Namco will notice that pretty quick.

 

[Curious_George]

So I was watching Giantbomb's new DS2 video and I noticed around the 1:20-1:30 mark when Vinny fights The Lost Sinner that in the intro to the fight the Sinner swipes out all the lighting. However, Vinny then found another place to relight the room after he wandered the area before the boss some more. That makes me wonder if that fight was intended to be in near pitch black darkness the first run (or you had to use a torch). It seems like that entire lighting aspect of that fight has been made irrelevant by the lighting changes (unless the light damages the sinner or something and I missed that). If I remember right, during Ken's stream this last weekend he fought the entire battle without ever lighting the room again and it made almost no difference from what I could tell.

I really hope if From releases the PC version without real darkness maybe PC modders will find a way to get actual darkness back in the game because it seems like a lot of things were designed with that in mind.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

I don't believe it will change anything really either.

But I do think moaning endlessly about a game then throwing cash at it is hypocritical and dumb.

And that's precisely why a lot of people are cancelling their pre-orders, holding off on official word for what is in store for the PC version (I feel a lot of people are going to be disappointed at what they see) and otherwise not participating in giving FROM money while they actively discuss why this is an unacceptable move.

I have absolutely no idea what the problem is here, Dan.

 

[A-V-B]

And that's precisely why a lot of people are cancelling their pre-orders, holding off on official word for what is in store for the PC version (I feel a lot of people are going to be disappointed at what they see) and otherwise not participating in giving FROM money while they actively discuss why this is an unacceptable move.

I have absolutely no idea what the problem is here, Dan.

A "vocal minority" is making certain people scared, I'm guessing.

 

[Gbraga]

No buying it anyway even though you complained bitterly about it, it what causes this to still happen.

This really makes no sense at all.

EDIT: Yes it does and I'm an idiot, I'm sorry.

 

[Servbot24]

WOW. You know. I love DkS2, but to act like were nothing but "crazy" folk for bringing up the huge change in graphics? Are you kidding me? Extremely disrespectful guys, and if your reading this, I'd like to hope you realize exactly what were refering too with all this talk here. I mean I don't get it. Is it just me or are a big majority of these journalist and even DkS youtubbers, just passing this off like it's no big deal. I don't understand.

I'm not saying it's right, but it happens all the time. Journos are used to it. It's seen as standard as is not really news. If they posted an article saying "an older version of DS looked better than the current one", 99% of comments would say either "duh" or "hmm, interesting" and they would move on.

 

[Grief.exe]

Do we have any proof of this?

Nope, but, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

WOW. You know. I love DkS2, but to act like were nothing but "crazy" folk for bringing up the huge change in graphics? Are you kidding me? Extremely disrespectful guys, and if your reading this, I'd like to hope you realize exactly what were refering too with all this talk here. I mean I don't get it. Is it just me or are a big majority of these journalist and even DkS youtubbers, just passing this off like it's no big deal. I don't understand.

.

gaming press:

 

[Zomba13]

So I was watching Giantbomb's new DS2 video and I noticed around the 1:20-1:30 mark when Vinny fights The Lost Sinner that in the intro to the fight the Sinner swipes out all the lighting. However, Vinny then found another place to relight the room after he wandered the area before the boss some more. That makes me wonder if that fight was intended to be in near pitch black the first run. It seems like that entire lighting aspect of that fight has been made irrelevant by the lighting changes (unless the light damages the sinner or something and I missed that). If I remember right, during Ken's stream this last weekend he fought the entire battle without ever lighting the room again and it made almost no difference from what I could tell.

I really hope if From releases the PC version without real darkness maybe PC modders will find a way to get actual darkness back in the game because it seems like a lot of things were designed with that in mind.

Unless FROM left the stuff in the PC version after removing/turning them off (which wouldn't surprise me really. This is FROM and the PC) then it's doubtful modders could do much.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I don't believe it will change anything really either.

But I do think moaning endlessly about a game then throwing cash at it is hypocritical and dumb.

false

if you can get enough voices to keep asking questions and to voice their concern you will likely get an answer if not a change

you don't have to look much further than Xbox One as an example, who's trash business practices were changed almost solely due to word of mouth

and we will have answers from FROM, and this thread will be a large reason why

 

[Big_Al]

WOW. You know. I love DkS2, but to act like were nothing but "crazy" folk for bringing up the huge change in graphics? Are you kidding me? Extremely disrespectful guys, and if your reading this, I'd like to hope you realize exactly what were refering too with all this talk here. I mean I don't get it. Is it just me or are a big majority of these journalist and even DkS youtubbers, just passing this off like it's no big deal. I don't understand.

The thing that gets me is the differences are fucking obvious to see. It's not even slight, it's fucking blatant. Personally I'll be disappointed if the proper lighting isn't in the PC version but it won't stop me buying it simply because I'm a huge Dark Souls fan. But to act like nothing has been changed or it's minimal is crazy to me. I'm not sitting here outraged, offended or ranting about it but it just seems highly ironic to me that Aliens Colonial Marines got crucified for the same thing/videos made when noones calling out this at all. If it was EA or Gearbox a lot of GAF/Games press would be fucking piling on them.

I understand that with the older consoles things change/things have to be altered, that's just the way it is due to either their technical ability or the console hardware. But when you're showing PS Access videos in as late as January with the old lighting that comes across as very iffy to me. Hell it was the videos of the characters fighting in the dark with a torch that got me excited initially.

I'm not saying it's right, but it happens all the time. Journos are used to it. It's seen as standard as is not really news. If they posted an article saying "an older version of DS looked better than the current one", 99% of comments would say either "duh" or "hmm, interesting" and they would move on.

Except you have PS Access playing and advertising the game 2 MONTHS before release in a version that wasn't to be. Not 6 months, not 1 year, not 2 years - 2 fucking months. Are you seriously saying there's nothing off about that ?

 

[Pyramid head]

I don't believe it will change anything really either.

But I do think moaning endlessly about a game then throwing cash at it is hypocritical and dumb.

Yeah, people should totally stay silent about stuff like this. In fact, why bother discussing any issues about video games? Just buy them, or don't, and shut up. It's okay, you can close Neogaf now, we don't need a discussion forum anymore.

 

[Vilam]

Hey, I actually made a video comparing the original demo to the final game. Sort of shot for shot.

Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison

Wow, this comparison video is pretty shocking in the obvious differences.

I'm not upset at all really - the game is still wonderful, and I certainly understand things changing during development. I'm more curious than anything else as to what actually happened... the visual slice theory makes the most sense to me. I could understand if one team branched off to focus on a specific slice of the game and polished the hell out of it and then their work didn't get branched back into the main build. That'd be pretty unfortunate if that's the case... I'd love to see that version released someday (weird demo of sorts?) so we could all experience it.

I wouldn't be upset if that version came back as a PS4/PC release sometime in the future as well.

I just hope we'll actually learn what happened someday, it's fairly mystifying at this point and that sort of stuff really draws my interest.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

Patrick and Brad

.

Pretty damn shameful. liking the game is one thing but ignoring a false advertising case and calling people crazy or "happens all the time" like it is nothing because you like the series is just sad.

Gaming journalism is a complete joke nowadays because of this.

Lost most respect I had left for Giant Bomb right there.

 

[Grief.exe]

We are coming up on 3500 posts and I don't see this train slowing down.

 

[UrbanRats]

I mean, it's his prerogative if he wants to give up the entire game due to this issue. Seems remarkably uptight and fussy and borderline neurotic to me, but it's up to him.

Areas of the game that look like shit (like the screenshots posted countless times) break my immersion, how about that?
Immersion is a big part of why i enjoy Dark Souls, so i'd say that's a pretty big factor.

Graphics and art direction are an integral part of gaming, i don't see why people are so dismissive about them.
I've not bought many games because it thought they had really bad art direction and visuals.

 

[Senoculum]

For some of the skeptics out there saying that the early footage was a PC build of DS2.

Then explain the TGS hands on, with the game running on actual PS3 hardware. With all the lighting effects intact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-xM2tzljA

HDMI outlets in the walls piping to computers.

This is correct. I used to work for an ad agency (now in a marketing/PR agency - similar world of business) and without a doubt 99.999999999% of game stations are PCs. Unless you see the console, then by default you should assume it's a computer.

I'm not condoning, or condemning any actions; but this is the reality. Of recent note, late last year and before release date, Sony showed off the PS4 in several comic conventions. You could wait in line and try the controller and play a demo. But what most people don't know is that they didn't have any working consoles (with a working OS); it was a big fat computer (which I assume is a sort of dev kit).

source: my eyes.

The industry has been doing this since its inception. Its the video equivalent of "bullshots." I just tossed away my PS2 era Official Playstation Magazines, but not before I quickly scanned through them - and there was a 4 page spread of the original Devil May Cry. I swear to God Almighty those screenshots were better than the HD version of the game. And don't forget stuff like this:

Now, I'd argue that FROM didn't screw up, plus they're most likely not allowed to talk to consumers (that's what PR is for), and instead the marketers for this game aggressively showed off the PC version to win over some purchases. Lying? Sure. Have you seen what a big mac looks like in the ads?

Don't get me wrong, I'm kinda miffed my copy of the game doesn't look like that, but I'm still realistic and would agree with most reasons why the final game doesn't look as advertised.
But that's the thing. The final game DOES look good. The draw distance, the cloth, the open(ish) world, and the ambient lighting is cohesive (though not as stark as some of the old previews).
And what's most important, the game plays like a dream. I absolutely love it, and am excited to find all the secrets it has in store.

 

[HyperBitHero]

This is a pretty good comparison.

 

[Vizzeh]

I get the fact they perhaps prepared next-gen lighting etc that wont work on Last gen systems, but since I havent bought the game, does it at least compare to darksouls 1, graphically?

 

[Facism]

Moving on in silence is exactly why things like this can continue to happen.

Stifling discussion about what is a shitty situation is wrong. You're more than welcome to step out of the topic if it bothers you so much!

It's pretty dodgy. Vote with your wallet but you better not discuss the game being downgraded, even though the thread is about that. What utter insecure arrogance. Terrible attitude.

If people want to gush about how amazing the game is, go for it. Don't start belittling and hushing other people because they have a problem with how the promotional material for this game was presented compared to how the retail turned out. Not saying some of the negativity isn't overboard or childish, but don't tar everyone with those brushes.

@Vizzeh: apparently the game is better looking overall that Dark Souls.