• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PlayStation 4 Sales Surpass 7.0 Million Units (April 6th), 20.5M Software (April 13)

Loudninja

Member
There's so much crazy hyperbole in this thread with people drooling over the idea of microsodt being finished. Does anyone remember the ps3 early last gen and it's sales position compared to the 360? That console managed to recover despite the ridiculous price and the cell being a nightmare to make games for initially, with poor tools available. Competition is apways good and needed, why would any of you here want this to be a one man race.
Not a good comparison since Sony had Europe to fall back on and MS does not.

MS is not finished at all though,still way too early to say that.
 

Rolf NB

Member
There's so much crazy hyperbole in this thread with people drooling over the idea of microsodt being finished. Does anyone remember the ps3 early last gen and it's sales position compared to the 360? That console managed to recover despite the ridiculous price and the cell being a nightmare to make games for initially, with poor tools available.
Explain in your own words which factors in the turnaround of the PS3 can apply to the Xbox One.
Competition is apways good and needed, why would any of you here want this to be a one man race.
How about a two-man race, that good enough?
 

Proxy

Member
There's so much crazy hyperbole in this thread with people drooling over the idea of microsodt being finished. Does anyone remember the ps3 early last gen and it's sales position compared to the 360? That console managed to recover despite the ridiculous price and the cell being a nightmare to make games for initially, with poor tools available. Competition is apways good and needed, why would any of you here want this to be a one man race.

The PS3 recovered because Playstation was a viable brand outside of the United States and the UK. The Xbox brand isn't. If Microsoft can't outright win both the US and the UK they're in trouble.
 

Sublyminal

Neo Member
The PS3 recovered because Playstation was a viable brand outside of the United States and the UK. The Xbox brand isn't. If Microsoft can't outright win both the US and the UK they're in trouble.



This, it has always been and always will be about brand recognition. Sony is just the bigger brand image wise, than Microsoft.
 
There goes that "b-b-b-but PS3 came back from behind!1!!!" argument again. Xbox isn't Playstation. Xbox isn't launching 1.5 years late in it's strongest market. Xbox didn't launch at $599. Xbox doesn't have Japan. Stop it.
 
The PS3 recovered because Playstation was a viable brand outside of the United States and the UK. The Xbox brand isn't. If Microsoft can't outright win both the US and the UK they're in trouble.

Actually, what you're forgetting is that last gen was split between three consoles, whereas this gen, with WiiU underperforming, is essentially split between two consoles. Even if Sony dominates all regions, the Xbox brand can still manage a very healthy total sales figure, that might even surpass the 80 million set by the 360. The market and demand are larger than they have ever been, and both consoles are beating their predecessors.

So where does the need to 'recover' even come from? Seems like an unfounded fear.
 

K1ng P3n

Member
Actually seen one in a store for the first time the other day, so tempted to pick it up but I will probably wait a little longer before I get one. Waiting for E3 to see what's coming.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Actually, what you're forgetting is that last gen was split between three consoles, whereas this gen, with WiiU underperforming, is essentially split between two consoles. Even if Sony dominates all regions, the Xbox brand can still manage a very healthy total sales figure, that might even surpass the 80 million set by the 360. The market and demand are larger than they have ever been, and both consoles are beating their predecessors.

So where does the need to 'recover' even come from? Seems like an unfounded fear.

Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.
 

Furyous

Member
Please tell you're not serious w/ the "noah gammzes" part, because I figure being Huey and all, you'd have more sense than that.

The problem is, in a way they've done that already w/ the TitanFall bundles, and it still wasn't enough. Price isn't the main factor. Image (both as a brand and from the debacles last year) are. I think people will be surprised at how many casuals know about the DRM fiasco; it's probably a lot.

Now add that w/ the image problem of getting significant discounts only six months into its lifespan (creating doubt in the consumer when they see the rival system selling like hotcakes at no discount or higher-than-MSRP), and it's a problem much more significant than price could ever be.

Of course I'm joking. Every console has games that move units. It's fanboy drivel to state that the PS4 has no games. 20.5 million people said the PS4 has games talking with their wallet.

A few exclusive AAA map packs and a GOW/Halo/unannounced third party keeps the Xone on track easily.
 
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

PS4 is selling incredibly well. But using that as a basis to spell doom and gloom is like using the Wii's sales figures to argue that the Xbox 360 and PS3 had failed. It makes no sense. The pie for the two consoles is larger now, and the market has increased as well. Both consoles are practically priced, and they're both selling incredibly well.
 

Abdiel

Member
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

What territories do you believe MS will be able to handle successfully, that they're not already in, today? Europe, Australia, Japan... All these major markets, none of which have a historical support for the Xbox lineage. Not to mention, in most of those European countries (if not all) the Xbox One can be acquired easily, regardless of the 'official' launch or not. Xbox is a primarily US and UK focused brand, and it's not winning in either.

Just because the Xbox hasn't launched in as many countries, that's because they shifted all of their stock focus to the US to fight on the home territory, where they were expected to dominate. The gap in the US might not be huge, but it's still a radical change from last gen, where the gap was enormous in their favor. And the comparisons to the 360 are kind of disingenuous, the 360 was really stock restrained for several months, with nowhere near the levels of stock available as the X1.
 
PS4 is selling incredibly well. But using that as a basis to spell doom and gloom is like using the Wii's sales figures to argue that the Xbox 360 and PS3 had failed. It makes no sense. The pie for the two consoles is larger now, and the market has increased as well. Both consoles are practically priced, and they're both selling incredibly well.

The pie is potentially larger, but it's also potentially smaller.

Does the 'Wii audience/install base' still exist for current-gen consoles is an interesting possibility to look back into 5 years from now.

Just as dedicated handheld market has shrunk because of the portable gaming market being eaten up by smartphones, and growing in a separate direction than the old days.
 
Actually, what you're forgetting is that last gen was split between three consoles, whereas this gen, with WiiU underperforming, is essentially split between two consoles. Even if Sony dominates all regions, the Xbox brand can still manage a very healthy total sales figure, that might even surpass the 80 million set by the 360. The market and demand are larger than they have ever been, and both consoles are beating their predecessors.

So where does the need to 'recover' even come from? Seems like an unfounded fear.

A fair amount of people think a large part of that market is gone which belonged to Wii .
In fact if we take out Nintendo from both last gen and the PS2 gen Sony and MS sold around the same amount both gens if we add them together .
This gen might also turn off more people from buying more than one consoles since you have to pay for online for both .
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

I don't see it surpassing the 360's numbers, not at the current price point. Also, we have to be realistic. The 13 original territories that MS released in first were done so for good reason: they were the 13 strongest territories for MS and Xbox. Them releasing in any other country at this point is nil as the return on them would be negligible to the overall install base.

I believe Xbone and PS4 are able to still benefit from the "new car smell"- the hype surrounding new consoles. However, as the year goes by and we pass E3 going into the holiday season, we're really going to see the consoles split and see how they sell from here. Taking into consideration that Xbone just lost to the PS4 in the month where its biggest release of the year launched, had unofficial pricecuts, and heavy advertising, MS is going to have to take action soon lest they fall behind a juggernaut Sony.
 
The pie is potentially larger, but it's also potentially smaller.

Does the 'Wii audience/install base' still exist for current-gen consoles is an interesting possibility to look back into 5 years from now.

Just as dedicated handheld market has shrunk because of the portable gaming market being eaten up by smartphones, and growing in a separate direction than the old days.

That's certainly a valid concern. But the Wii's primary rise to fame was attributed to it's ability to create social (not solitary) experiences at a low cost. Smartphones do not substitute that demand.

Despite that, the continued momentum of XBO sales, which far surpasses the 360's first few months, tells us something very important about the appetite of this generation.

Is the pie bigger?


The combined PlayStation and Xbox lines have hovered around the 10M annualised US sales rate, give or take a couple million, for the last decade.

This includes the period of the transient Nintendo hump, which essentially sits on top of relative stability in the traditional market. Nintendo giveth, Nintendo taketh away.

1. That graph gave me a headache.
2. Thank you for proving my point.
 
Is the pie bigger? Since it apparently wasn't obvious enough the answer is: No, probably not a lot.
NkdgJay.png

The combined PlayStation and Xbox lines have hovered around the 10M annualised US sales rate, give or take a couple million, for the last decade.

This includes the period of the transient Nintendo hump, which essentially sits on top of relative stability in the traditional market. Nintendo giveth, Nintendo taketh away.

2. Thank you for proving my point.
I don't see how on earth you took that graph as proving your point. Setting aside the cyclical variation, the underlying market for the type of system that Microsoft and Sony have put on the market has not grown significantly.
 
Another small point I'd like to add on the so-called potential market contraction is that we may be seeing the end of 'jail-broken consoles' this gen. Should consoles not find themselves to be jail-broken, there'll be lost sales in markets where piracy is king. (These markets will shift back to PC more so than consoles.)

Wii and 360 lent themselves as the lead-platforms for piracy, due to ease of jail-breaking as well as DVD-Rs being cheap media. That helped with sales in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc. (arguably 1 in 50... maybe even 100 buys legit software/consoles here.)

But I don't think we'll see that happen anymore.

But the Wii's primary rise to fame was attributed to it's ability to create social (not solitary) experiences at a low cost. Smartphones do not substitute that demand.

Smartphones do not substitute that demand, but we don't know if current-gen consoles will either.

At the very least, we can safely say that neither PS4 or XB1 right now have anything close to the gargantuan system-seller that was Wii Sports.
 

Hesemonni

Banned
I'm willing to wager this gen will see fewer multi-console buyers than the previous one which similarly contributes to lower total sales. This is because of fewer exclusives and also customer lock-in via services like PS+. Why pay $50 / yr for a service you'll be using little or not at all when the other one offers similar service and added value (PS+)?
 

Proxy

Member
Actually, what you're forgetting is that last gen was split between three consoles, whereas this gen, with WiiU underperforming, is essentially split between two consoles. Even if Sony dominates all regions, the Xbox brand can still manage a very healthy total sales figure, that might even surpass the 80 million set by the 360. The market and demand are larger than they have ever been, and both consoles are beating their predecessors.

So where does the need to 'recover' even come from? Seems like an unfounded fear.

It remains to be seen whether the industry is in for a contraction but, I don't think the people that bought a Wii are going to buy a Xbone. Especially when, more likely than not, it will remain the most expensive console for the rest of the generation. What would even be a "very healthy total sales figure"? Certainly a lot less than whatever MS was envisioning when Yusuf Mehdi said that next gen consoles could potentially sell over a billion units.

And potentially a lot less than what the 360 did now that their biggest competitor has a product that is not only cheaper but also more powerful. Comparing both consoles to their predecessors is a little disingenuous because it discounts the fact that both were supply constrained, more so in the case of the 360, during their first few months on the market.
 

BigDug13

Member
PS4 is selling incredibly well. But using that as a basis to spell doom and gloom is like using the Wii's sales figures to argue that the Xbox 360 and PS3 had failed. It makes no sense. The pie for the two consoles is larger now, and the market has increased as well. Both consoles are practically priced, and they're both selling incredibly well.

There's no doom and gloom as far as Xbox being a viable platform this gen. It will be a viable platform. The real question though is how much money will Microsoft have to lose in order to continue to make it a competitive platform price-wise? And how long will investors let them do that?

At the end of the day Microsoft can technically afford this to be another money loser, but the people making decisions may not want to keep eating that. To what end? To try to "control the living room" in a world where that definition is being muddied and is seeing so many other devices that will be more capable than XBO from a non-gaming standpoint? Trying to own "live TV" in a DVR world? Forced-subscription-based media functions in a possible cable-cutting world in the face of other devices who can do it cheaper with no required subscription?
 

gtj1092

Member
So how low are x1 shipments expected to go next quarter. Without a price drop I can't see retailers being convinced to buy much more. I think they will definitely dip under a million. Wonder how long they can live off the big launch when comparing pace against the 360. Seems like the percent ahead is dropping each month.
 
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.
This is the current popular argument. The reality is that Xbox will not sell significant numbers in any of the remaining territories. Not going to close the gap or even come close by doing that.
 
Who said competition = sales parity?

Competition brought us X360, competition brought us PSP and DS, competition brought us PS4 etc. Competition brought us PS+, competition brought us great exclusive games and so on. Right now competition is bringing us 449$ Titanfall bundle instead of 499$ no-game bundle, games sales on every platform etc. MS has been shitted on by gamers and competition for months so they have to deliver this E3 via great software. Nintendo is fumbling terribly with Wii U and getting their ass kicked, so expect them to deliver big time if not in this gen then with their next home console if that happens. That's what competition does, and if they deliver then consumers win by getting more options.
I was suggesting a "single console future" is not necessarily a bad thing, and would be a result of competition. The "single PC" market (that being Windows for all intents and purposes) doesn't seem to be harming developers. Certainly a single console future, with that machine selling 180m plus, would be beneficial to developers rather than two or three different platforms sharing that pie.

If as a consumer you are hoping for a platform to die because you don't happen to like it, then you are a stupid shithead fanboy.
You stay classy, Taurus.
 
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

None of those other territories are going to do anything but be drips in a bucket. The XB1 is currently available in all the territories where it matters.

Truth is you are wrong as fuck. First, we will never have generation big as PS2 generation was. There's PC, mobile and tablets competing for people's free time.

Second, Nintendo and MS are much stronger imo on their own than in PS2 gen, especially MS who goes after same crowd that Sony does. That means more variety for the sales too.

Third, higher dev costs mean that 3rd party exclusives are pretty much dead unless strongly moneyhatted. This means there will be no "go to-console" like PS2 was, probably ever again.

PS2+PC kind of sales wouldn't be enough today to support game industry. Actually, it would be a disaster. For comparison, last gen there was X360+PS3+PC who each had strong sales and good software sales and even that wasn't enough to keep studios or some publishers afloat.

Since PS2 days, dev costs today are about ten times as high. So do you think you can up your game sales ten times larger? Give me a list of over 10 million selling PS3 games for comparison.

Also, single console industry sounds like fucking disaster in the making. Competition is what drives this industry forward, and competition is good for the consumer.

I can't figure out what this guy is arguing. A split demographic with exclusives only available to chunks of the overall pie somehow = more money for devs.
While A single console which opens any game on the platform to all of the market = devs will all die and won't make a nickel.

Not saying I agree that a 1 console future would be a good thing but the reasoning here just doesn't make sense.
 
Do you understand how many devs would drop out completely out of the industry or go mobile if they followed your advice? Higher dev costs mean you have to sell more than ever and only way to do that is dev and publish on PS4+X1+PC.
Not really. If "everyone" has a PlayStation, you can just focus on that, saving the time/money you'd have spent on porting to other platforms, and "everyone" will still be able to play your game, which is now exclusive-quality. Maximum return on minimal investment. It doesn't get any better than that for a developer.


Overlap, someone is likely to have both console's than having 2 of one console per person.

Plus a dev has to invest money in developing for the other console rather than just one, this is why the WiiU gets shit on by devs, because the return in just merely porting a game isn't worth it.
Overlap is kinda what throws everything off. If there are 80M PS3s and 80M XB360s, that doesn't necessarily mean there are 160M potential customers for your game. Maybe there are still only 120M gamers, and 40M of them own both systems. So while 110M PS4s and 20M XBones may seem like a big contraction, there may be only 10M potential customers out of that pool of 120M you'd miss by going PS4-exclusive,


Do you see a rotting product on the store? Maybe Vita and Wii U, although Wii U gets some support from Nintendo.

But are you saying X1 can't compete anymore? Is it a rotting product? No and no. And after only six months you shouldn't even be making these calls. It took from end of 2006 to mid 2009 (PS3 slim) for PS3 to start shining. That's almost 3 years.

I see what you are going after with your one console dream, but there is too many questions and dangers that overcome the positive sides. Do you have an example where a single product market has been better than multiple competing products?
I'll say it. After the launch rushes passed last year, the PS4 has been selling 3-4x faster than XBone. Even more troubling for MS is their sales come almost entirely from the US and UK, and they're behind in those markets as well. If/when those two markets fully jump on the PS4 bandwagon, XBone sales will be effectively zero. But even if they don't throw in with PS4, at the current sales rates, when PS4 is hitting 100M, XBone would be at about 30M.


There's so much crazy hyperbole in this thread with people drooling over the idea of microsodt being finished. Does anyone remember the ps3 early last gen and it's sales position compared to the 360? That console managed to recover despite the ridiculous price and the cell being a nightmare to make games for initially, with poor tools available. Competition is apways good and needed, why would any of you here want this to be a one man race.
Except, PS3 sales were always better than XB360 sales. That's how it was able to overcome the 10M-unit head start XB360 had. There was one year where they tied, and one where XB360 was slightly ahead — thanks to Kinect, IIRC — but other than that, PS3 led every year.

PS3 sold ~80M over seven years, compared to ~70M XB360s in the same time frame. There was no "comeback." It just got a late start, which probably slowed its overall sales. Without the late start, it likely would've sold far better than XB360.


Actually, what you're forgetting is that last gen was split between three consoles, whereas this gen, with WiiU underperforming, is essentially split between two consoles. Even if Sony dominates all regions, the Xbox brand can still manage a very healthy total sales figure, that might even surpass the 80 million set by the 360. The market and demand are larger than they have ever been, and both consoles are beating their predecessors.

So where does the need to 'recover' even come from? Seems like an unfounded fear.
There's no way XBone passes 80M. As much as 75% of its sales are coming from the US. To sell 80M worldwide, they'd need to sell 50-60M US, and that ain't gonna happen.
 
This is the current popular argument. The reality is that Xbox will not sell significant numbers in any of the remaining territories. Not going to close the gap or even come close by doing that.

I think its a tad bit premature to be stating this so definitively.

The course of sales is far too early to surmise that much.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
If ps4 was doing European xbox numbers in the US. And in Europe, the xbox was ahead of ps4 by the same amount ps4 is ahead of xbox in the states, would the ps4 be considered a failure?
 

Huff

Banned
Why so much sarcasm? The Vita gets new games every week it seems and they're mere weeks away from the release of a slim redesign. I don't see why it's the Vita's fault that North America doesn't like handhelds.

thats kinda the point. there is no market
 

Moneal

Member
If ps4 was doing European xbox numbers in the US. And in Europe, the xbox was ahead of ps4 by the same amount ps4 is ahead of xbox in the states, would the ps4 be considered a failure?

yes and tons of people in the gaming media would be saying so. there would be very few that would be saying that ps4 could make a comeback. they would be citing the same things many here are saying regarding xbox. "PS4 losing in the regions it dominated in with ps3". "it doesn't have the europe to fall back on this gen" and on and on.
 
Why so much sarcasm? The Vita gets new games every week it seems and they're mere weeks away from the release of a slim redesign. I don't see why it's the Vita's fault that North America doesn't like handhelds.
It would help if SCEA in North America would market the thing.. you know at least a small amount.
 

Mar Nosso

Banned
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

At this point in time it's doing MORE than PS2 numbers. And Wii numbers. Any numbers from any console that ever existed actually. We will see where it goes from here.
 

EGM1966

Member
Xbox One hasn't launched everywhere yet. I also think it can surpass the 360. Its just that the Ps4 is doing almost Ps2 numbers.

Unless the XB1 manages to completely outperform the 360 in those regions they won't affect things at all. And let's be honest, if the XB1 is currently behind PS4 in US/UK it's pretty much a foregone conclusion its going to perform worse than the 360 in those regions. Personally if they add more than 10K to 15K a month to XB1 sales I'll be impressed.

At this point the XB1 is ahead of 360 mainly due to a much better start - due to a much larger initial loyal base and having much better availability. Since the launch died down though all the signs point to XB1 dipping performance wise worldwide and it's pretty clear from March that even when MS threw everything at winning an NPD and showing some kind of traction vs PS4 they failed and in fact sales were arguably fairly flat.

The XB1 is on a trajectory to sell fairly well but the market is almost certainly not the size of the combined Wii/PS3/360 market - it's almost certainly smaller than that and probably not hugely larger than the PS3/360 combined market - and the current trends would give PS4 comfortably more of that market WW than XB1 and without a huge lead in US and a decent one in UK the likelihood is that LTD XB1 sales would be below 360 (although they could still be decent of course).

You're right though - the elephant in the room isn't so much current XB1 sales as current PS4 sales and how much better they are not just WW but in the two main Xbox strongholds of US/UK.
 

kartu

Banned
There's so much crazy hyperbole in this thread with people drooling over the idea of microsodt being finished. Does anyone remember the ps3 early last gen and it's sales position compared to the 360? That console managed to recover despite the ridiculous price and the cell being a nightmare to make games for initially, with poor tools available. Competition is apways good and needed, why would any of you here want this to be a one man race.

Situation is different, PS4 was a more expensive yet slightly faster platform.
Xbone is more expensive AND slower AND has no chances to beat PS4 on price. (Plus more DRM shit like youtube behind XBL Gold, which most people seem to not know or care about though)

PS3 was so freaking weird, most ports suffered. Yet Sony didn't lose that gen.

Name a single thing that could allow Microsoft to narrow the gap?

And, no, I don't want Xbone to banish, but I do want Microsoft to suffer for the shit they've planned or already pushed. (And fuck yeah, USA focus, no thanks, I'm in EU) People say it was consumers voting with their wallets, NO IT WAS NOT. It was Sony using it to backstab Microsoft.

There is a handful of players that decide things for us. If they come up with some shit, we can't do much to stop it. if you think, you could vote out of Sony also going all digital, try to vote out of having to pay for playing online.
 

Moneal

Member
Situation is different, PS4 was a more expensive yet slightly faster platform.
Xbone is more expensive AND slower AND has no chances to beat PS4 on price. (Plus more DRM shit like youtube behind XBL Gold, which most people seem to not know or care about though)

PS3 was so freaking weird, most ports suffered. Yet Sony didn't lose that gen.

Name a single thing that could allow Microsoft to narrow the gap?

And, no, I don't want Xbone to banish, but I do want Microsoft to suffer for the shit they've planned or already pushed. (And fuck yeah, USA focus, no thanks, I'm in EU) People say it was consumers voting with their wallets, NO IT WAS NOT. It was Sony using it to backstab Microsoft.

There is a handful of players that decide things for us. If they come up with some shit, we can't do much to stop it. if you think, you could vote out of Sony also going all digital, try to vote out of having to pay for playing online.

agree with the majority of the post. Im in us and still don't like any of the decisions MS made at reveal.

The last part I don't agree with. If MS and Sony had went with the DRM. I am a firm believer that the Wii U would have seen a major jump in sales. while ps4 and the one would have not had anything close to what they are now. Voting with our wallets is the greatest power of anyone in the Free market. Consumers forget that a lot of times. but companies sell us what they think we want to buy. if we don't buy it they try something else. that's exactly what pushed MS for the drm changes. it wasn't Sony's not using drm. it was the fact that ps4 was pushing 3 or 4 to 1 pre order numbers compared to xbox one. ms didn't change when sony said it wasn't using drm. it only did after pre order numbers started coming in.
 

FranXico

Member
Quality over quantity. Just like quality over resolution.

PS4 games have all of those things, not only the least important one which is higher resolution in some multiplatform games, but also the quantity and quality.

Diverse game libraries are like that.
 
N

NinjaFridge

Unconfirmed Member
There was only 1 Xbone game released in January?

Seriously?
 
Top Bottom