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Fighting Games Weekly | May 12-18 | The Bracket Racket

S

SloaneRisette

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
I just wish all tournaments would move to pre-registration only like EVO so we could have set brackets well in advance. It prevents shenanigans, it's hype, it lets players prepare. I guess that'll never happen with the FGC being so poverty.
Click to expand...

That and a lot of top players are apparently super lazy with pre-registering
 
A

Anne

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
I just wish all tournaments would move to pre-registration only like EVO so we could have set brackets well in advance. It prevents shenanigans, it's hype, it lets players prepare. I guess that'll never happen with the FGC being so poverty.
Click to expand...

KiT is doing this for 2015. I'm not at the top of the food chain for this, but I will be doing my best to make sure it stays that way.
 
S

Seasoned Badger

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
I just wish all tournaments would move to pre-registration only like EVO so we could have set brackets well in advance. It prevents shenanigans, it's hype, it lets players prepare. I guess that'll never happen with the FGC being so poverty.
Click to expand...

EVO have on site registration but it's super secret and only top players can get it. That's how Dieminion got into EVO last year.
 
C

CurlyW

Member
Evo does have on site registration. It costs $100 and it's how Dieminion, Flux, et al managed to play at Evo last year.
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
EVO has had some scandals too. I know in 2012 a player missed their pool and instead of being DQed they were moved to another pool that they ended up winning.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
zpBpGw1.gif


HypeDog is top tier
 
C

casperOne

Member
thehadou said:
Game of Thrones to watch though. So at least there's that.
Click to expand...

This is the Emmy episode.

Kumubou said:
GAF -> Internet -> GAF.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing when I read the article.

.la1n said:
Wait so why shouldn't team mates have to fight each other early if that's how it works out? Seems a little stupid to show favoritism to anyone
Click to expand...

Generally, you want to distribute people from teams, regional areas etc, as evenly as possible so as to get the best possible random distribution in pools.

Osu 16 Bit said:
I just wish all tournaments would move to pre-registration only.
Click to expand...

I respect the hell out of Adam (Keits) for sticking to this, and I wish more tournaments would do this. It makes what I mentioned above about bracket seeding much easier.

If you register onsite though, you need to realize you're going to be put in the pool of leftovers, as it was on you to not register in the first place.

Smedwicks said:
That and a lot of top players are apparently super lazy with pre-registering
Click to expand...

Justin is actually pretty good with pre-registering, he always announces it on his Twitter when he does (taking him at his word, of course, there's no reason not to).

I imagine the rest of EG is the same with pre-registration. I can say that in three years of handling on-site registration at ECT, I've never seen a member of EG come through on site registration.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Maybe some top players register late so they can play all the late comers or people that register on the spot that might not be as good or dedicated ;) Free pools

Not serious
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
QisTopTier said:
Maybe some top players register late so they can play all the late comers or people that register on the spot that might not be as good or dedicated ;) Free pools
Click to expand...

Generally you get put in pools where there was byes. So you'll be in a pool with a player oh was deemed worthy of getting a bye.

Edit: damn your edit.
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
casperOne said:
Justin is actually pretty good with pre-registering, he always announces it on his Twitter when he does (taking him at his word, of course, there's no reason not to).

I imagine the rest of EG is the same with pre-registration. I can say that in three years of handling on-site registration at ECT, I've never seen a member of EG come through on site registration.
Click to expand...

Not talking about Justin or EG in particular, but I've noticed that it seems like numerous people in the FGC have noted many times over how they register at the door/want to/need to/whatever.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
If I ever fly across to the other side of the world to a tournament, I'm not going to pre-register. Seems like it would be too much of a hassle to organise.
 
I

Infinite

Member
I cut down on the amount of FGC Folk I follow and it was a good decision especially in times like these when senseless drama unfolds. I'm open to following some gaffers though
 
S

SweetJohnnyCage

Member
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

What do you define as a "team"? Is it the act of putting some letters in front of your name, or do you have to be part of a bigger organisation?

Would you have done the same if two random players had got together the night before the finals and decided they were a team? What if the whole top 32 had formed a ECT team?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
phaonaut said:
Do teams really matter? Its just a sponsor.

Mike Ross on UltraChenTv tonite.
Click to expand...
I don't think they do. This isn't like making two Chicago Bulls players face off. You aren't being unfair, these are just people who happen to be sponsored by the same person. Unless TOs think they need to give sponsors favoritism for some reason.
 
S

SweetJohnnyCage

Member
toddhunter said:
What do you define as a "team"? Is it the act of putting some letters in front of your name, or do you have to be part of a bigger organisation?

Would you have done the same if two random players had got together the night before the finals and decided they were a team? What if the whole top 32 had formed a ECT team?
Click to expand...

Team PIE has been established in New York for years, everyone knows this. Lee Chung is one of the founding members, along with Andy/Citiofbrass. Zeus has been on the team for a while now. Organization size has nothing to do with it.

Second question, I don't have an answer to. It's not something that's ever happened. But I see where you're going to go. Would we have people who play all the time together play in Top 32? Depends, honestly. I don't have a solid answer.
 
R

Ragingnight

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is, if the tournament was setup that they were going to play each other then they should play each other.

edit
Imagine if Riot changed the brackets because complexity black was facing complexity red, just because they are both from complexity (they didn't as far as I know)
 
M

Master Milk

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

Apparently a lot of people don't like the idea of brackets being changed and players being floated.

How is this going to affect future tournaments you run?
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

People will call me crazy but I absolutely 100% agree with your decision and respect your transparency.

Also i really feel like in the end it doesnt matter. To win a tournament you've got to be able to beat everyone in that tournament.
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
Ragingnight said:
I think the issue is, if the tournament was setup that they were going to play each other then they should play each other.
Click to expand...

It was likely just an oversight in which pools they were placed in. Unless they reseeded after pools in which case this is even more of a non-issue.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...
Having read your post, I am won over. Fair call.
 
V

Vice

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

It's fair to the teams but not to the others players on their sides of the brackets though. Zeus, Lee, Ricky and Wong didn't get to team kill each other early on but other players were affected by the change.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
Click to expand...

Even though I was the one going on a rampage on the bracket switch, I have the utmost respect for your transparency on the situation and because of how you explained it, I can see why the bracket switch occurred. Hype is what makes a tournament and you just tried to make it even more exciting, nothing wrong with that. With the explanation given, I find it completely suitable to do such a change.

However, (hopefully) if something like this occurs again where two players, of the same team, may have to face each other, to do it well before top 32, which may be much to ask for but in the long run will have a lot less mouths talking. Hope everything goes well with you in your new job Johnny and sorry for the blame-game, didn't want to flame anybody. I just found it really odd that two great people in the community would do something like this but with the explanation, my worries are gone.
 
C

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
Vice said:
It's fair to the teams but not to the others players on their sides of the brackets though. Zeus, Lee, Ricky and Wong didn't get to team kill each other early on but other players were affected by the change.
Click to expand...

Exactly, it's more about how the other players are affected. LuckyD originally had to play Lee Chung and then just like that he has to play Ricky Ortiz. Does that seem fair?
 
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