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[Marty Chinn]

Hmm, well do you have a reason why it would be a big deal?

True, general life experience tells us as humans that vomiting is usually because the body is trying to rid itself of some sort of bad material.
Consider that you have one data point that says "My baby vomited while receiving the vaccine." The professionals giving out these vaccines surely must have given it to thousands and thousands of babies. A baby vomiting is possibly uncommon, but it is likely that they've seen it before and so they would be in a situation where they could have fairly strong evidence that it's not a big deal.
I would lean towards trusting them, although I'm also curious as to if you asked further questions about how they knew it wasn't a big deal? Would be interesting to know.

I think you misunderstood where I was going with this. I don't think my baby is properly vaccinated because he vomited up the vaccine. I'm not worried about the act of vomiting but the fact that he may not have the vaccine properly inside him now as a result and the doctor and the injection technician both felt it was not a big deal if he didn't get it.

 

[Dai101]

I can't even comprehend the jump you have to make from a routine vaccination to autism.
Just how?

The anti vax movement started in the UK, and quack science alt medicine is probably even more popular in Europe than mainstream America, Germany is like the epicenter of homeopathic medicine.

And that's before even mentioning all the anti GMO hysteria that comes out of Europe.

Plenty of anti intellectualism on both sides of the pond.

Obligatory video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLcOz4EKrxg

Contains boobs, so NSFW.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Thank you, idiots of the country.

 

[Strike]

That's sad that this is still a thing in America in 2014.

 

[Persona7]

The anti vaccination movement is truly one of the stupidest, most dangerous movements in some time. Vaccinations only work if we all get them people. Just curious, when I went to Kindergarten and either 7th or 8th grade certain vaccinations were required. How do anti vaccination people get around this?

Home schooling, I think.

 

[Vyer]

Local news station put this blurb up on Facebook.

Ugh, the comments....

 

[Mr.Mike]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vac...o-work-melinda-gates-stephen-harper-1.2658688

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he doesn’t understand why people in the developed world don’t get vaccinated.

I don't either Steve.

'Don't indulge your theories,' Harper says, 'think of your children and listen to the experts'

Damn straight Steve!

 

[terrisus]

 

[Kart94]

so, i forgot to ask. What exactly do measles do to the body?

 

[kess]

so, i forgot to ask. What exactly do measles do to the body?

Rashes with a chance of meningitis, infertility, and a host of other complications. Birth defects in pregnant women.

 

[mrkgoo]

I think you misunderstood where I was going with this. I don't think my baby is properly vaccinated because he vomited up the vaccine. I'm not worried about the act of vomiting but the fact that he may not have the vaccine properly inside him now as a result and the doctor and the injection technician both felt it was not a big deal if he didn't get it.

It's an optional vaccine, no? It's an optional one here that you have to pay for (other ones deemed "necessary" by the government and Health Board, are free, paid for by public healthcare).

I asked my Doctor about his opinion and he said it was totally up to us. He did mention possible rare side effects of the vaccine too. We didn't do it. The doctor didn't seem to plussed about us not getting it.

WE, of course, got all the standard ones as well as an option Chicken Pox vaccine.

But yeah as you say, and as a parent also, I can understand the reluctance to jab your baby with stuff.

It's one thing to talk the talk, but when you're standing there with your kid... it's actually pretty unbearable. A lot of things for me changed despite my best intentions, after my child was born.
You want to protect your child as best you can, but there is also a line. You can't literally give them every single vaccine available, it would be too much to handle emotionally.

It's not just vaccines, but all sorts of things as a new parent that really warp your mind.

You have to make uninformed decisions about what is best. It's not easy.

 

[PflargBlarg]

I think you misunderstood where I was going with this. I don't think my baby is properly vaccinated because he vomited up the vaccine. I'm not worried about the act of vomiting but the fact that he may not have the vaccine properly inside him now as a result and the doctor and the injection technician both felt it was not a big deal if he didn't get it.

Woops, my mistake. Well I guess in general my reasoning still applies though. If they don't seem concerned I would probably go with it

 

[Mistel]

At least they don't have autism.

You have no idea how offensive that statement is do you?

 

[Dead Man]

No shit. Fucking anti vacciners have a lot to answer for.

 

[GiJoccin]

Two months ago, my baby boy at 4 months old got the oral Rotovirus vaccine but he was so upset that he was crying hard and he threw it up immediately. It wasn't a reaction from the oral vaccine itself, but just the crying.

We told them and they said he wouldn't give it again, and even if he threw it all up, it's not that big of a deal. That struck us as odd. Not the fact that he wouldn't get it again, because that makes sense. But the fact that they said it was no big deal was kind of odd.

being up front, pediatrician here

rotavirus vaccine has worked wonders - rota didn't (and still doesn't) really kill kids in the US or cause major damage, but it did cause a TON of hospitalizations for diarrhea leading to dehydration, something we don't really see too much of anymore (and if you can avoid time in the hospital, it's for the best)

rotavirus is extremely common, and spreads easily. it can have many different presentations, but overall, the first time that you child gets rotavirus is the most severe, which is why the rotavirus vaccine is good - the first exposure to rotavirus your child gets is an inactive virus that won't cause any symptoms

soooo what i'm guessing is, your pediatrician thought it'd be NICE if your child got the rota vaccine, but odds are your child will be 100% A OK without it also, and if he was upset the first time having it, he'd probably be upset the second time having it as well

i guess i understand parents' hesitation to vaccinate their kids, whatever their reason is, but from my perspective, there's really no reason to NOT vaccinate... prevents so many devastating complications that while unlikely to happen, really suck if they do...

 

[1cmanny1]

Do any of you have any good videos or reputable articles debunking all the concerns people have about vaccinations?

It is all very well raging about it, but you might as well try to get these people to change their minds. Which is why I would like to have some understandable reputable sources to throw at them.

 

[Makai]

The anti vaccination movement is truly one of the stupidest, most dangerous movements in some time. Vaccinations only work if we all get them people. Just curious, when I went to Kindergarten and either 7th or 8th grade certain vaccinations were required. How do anti vaccination people get around this?

Wait, are vaccinated people at higher risk because of unvaccinated peers?

 

[Chichikov]

Yeah... the thing with Pakistan is that the US seriously fucked up by piggybacking their search for Osama bin Laden onto a fake vaccination drive put together by the CIA.

I mean, yeah, they found bin Laden. Huzzah. They also set back vaccination efforts there for probably decades by actually engaging in the kind of behavior that these conspiracy theories think is going on.

Massive fuck-up.

Scientific American on the subject: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/

Undermining American interests is the CIA's specialty.
Heads should fucking roll over that bullshit, like, there should be a congressional inquiry finding out exactly who approved such crap and fire that person.
Never gonna happen though, people don't care.

Wait, are vaccinated people at higher risk because of unvaccinated peers?

Yes, vaccines are not 100% effective.

 

[Mutanthands]

Wait, are vaccinated people at higher risk because of unvaccinated peers?

Yes, because no vaccine is 100% effective. If you just happen to be the one out of a hundred patient who's vaccine didn't take, you'll be vulnerable if exposed. So, best way to control for that is to vaccinate as high a percentage as possible, limiting the vectors for the illness coming your way.

The recent pertussis outbreaks have reinforced the fact that some vaccines lose effectiveness over time, leading to a recommendation of a booster with the usual tetanus and diphtheria boosters.

 

[ScribbleD]

Maybe the anti-vaccination people are just shills for the feds trying to get people to think vaccinations are necessary. Then we get people dying from lack of vaccinations and it becomes mandated by law.

Then the feds start putting nanomachines in the vaccinations to control the public. It's all a big scheme to control the people.

Typical of big nano.

 

[Demon Ice]

And the bottom of the IQ barrel continues to ruin it for the rest of the world. How annoying.

so, i forgot to ask. What exactly do measles do to the body?

Rash, fever, can become latent and present years later as a lethal Subcute sclerosing panencephalitis.

 

[GiJoccin]

Do any of you have any good videos or reputable articles debunking all the concerns people have about vaccinations?

It is all very well raging about it, but you might as well try to get these people to change their minds. Which is why I would like to have some understandable reputable sources to throw at them.

I can pull up some articles when I'm at work tomorrow

But that probably won't change their minds. A lot of people just get this... Feeling... That vaccines are bad and there is a conspiracy, kind of like climate change deniers

Vaccines have been looked at ad nauseum by high powered studies that show they are safe and effective

 

[Risible]

If I could I would punch every anti-vaccer in the face personally. I would start with Jenny McCarthy and work my way down.

 

[inm8num2]

I'd be genuinely curious to see what Bill Maher thinks about this (he's spoken against vaccines, IIRC).

 

[Chichikov]

I'd be genuinely curious to see what Bill Maher thinks about this (he's spoken against vaccines, IIRC).

Bill Maher is fucking idiot when it comes to medicine.

 

[inm8num2]

Bill Maher is fucking idiot when it comes to medicine.

He prides himself on looking at science, statistics, etc., so I'd really like to see him open up or change his mind on this issue. I don't have any stock in his position on the matter, but it's just curious to me that he's anti-vaccine. It doesn't seem to be consistent with his approach to most other science discussions.

 

[Cynar]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vac...o-work-melinda-gates-stephen-harper-1.2658688



I don't either Steve.



Damn straight Steve!

First smart thing that man has ever said. Still believes in Reagonimics though.

 

[DragonGirl]

Hell, even chicken pox can kill, if the circumstances are right. Severe cases can lead to a nasty viral pneumonia. Some cases are so severe, the scarring can be debilitating.

There's a reason we have vaccines for things that might seem benign at first.

chicken pox also returns as shingles in adults if you were infected as a kid. The virus never goes away, it just lives in your nerve endings and when it becomes active again can cause problems. At the most minor, shingles is a painful rash. At its worse,if the outbreak area is on your face it can cause you to go blind or deaf.

 

[DragonGirl]

Has there even been any studies on the relationship between getting vaccinated and becoming autistic? Where do they get this from?

There have been so many studies on this subject you could cover the Rocky Mountains in the confetti. The studies find no connection between vaccines and autism. This whole mess started with Andrew Wakefield. Look that bastard up.

 

[Clockwork]

I know three families with autistic children. Two of which don't believe any of the anti-vaccination nonsense.

The third has downed the proverbial kool aid and has started a stand trying to sell some herself. I had to stop following her on Facebook because of all the bullshit she posts. Not only is she anti-vaccine but has become a hardcore advocate to holistic/homeopathic medicine and organic/gluten free/flavor of the week quack diets. Now all of these aren't necessarily bad (except perhaps the anti-vaccine stance) but the absurd and extreme level she takes it to is just preposterous.

 

[LogicStep]

chicken pox also returns as shingles in adults if you were infected as a kid. The virus never goes away, it just lives in your nerve endings and when it becomes active again can cause problems. At the most minor, shingles is a painful rash. At its worse,if the outbreak area is on your face it can cause you to go blind or deaf.

If someone has chicken pox as a kid, anything they can do to prevent this from happening?

 

[DragonGirl]

If someone has chicken pox as a kid, anything they can do to prevent this from happening?

Nope. All doctors can do is give you anti viral medication if you have an outbreak to fight the symptoms. There's no cure. Also, shingles aren't, or at least never used to be that common thanks to vaccines, so it's not unusual for doctors to be unfamiliar with it. I know my mom had an outbreak that went undiagnosed until she saw an older family doctor who recognized it. If the outbreak isn't on your head it's not really dangerous, though it can be very painful.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Do any of you have any good videos or reputable articles debunking all the concerns people have about vaccinations?

It is all very well raging about it, but you might as well try to get these people to change their minds. Which is why I would like to have some understandable reputable sources to throw at them.

Science based medicine is great for the the general public because it breaks down scientific papers into easy to understand information.

Massive list of articles about vaccines here.


http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/vaccines-and-autism/#index

 

[PflargBlarg]

Science based medicine is great for the the general public because it breaks down scientific papers into easy to understand information.

Massive list of articles about vaccines here.


http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/vaccines-and-autism/#index

I really like the whole network of SBM, plus the guys on Skeptic's Guide to the Universe, and their associates and friends on scienceblogs and elsewhere. A lot of great information spread throughout their blogs and articles.

 

[LCGeek]

What the fuck does this even mean?

Pay attention to other things people are talking about on the subject like a popular celeb couple who uses pseudo science as if it's a real argument. Lack of knowledge and fear are potent tools when swaying people against things.

As for the other user I earned my tag I take in stride and welcome to neogaf I am your insane and maladjusted nut.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's an optional vaccine, no? It's an optional one here that you have to pay for (other ones deemed "necessary" by the government and Health Board, are free, paid for by public healthcare).

I think all the vaccines were optional. We could have easily opted out of them. I was only telling my experience because it implied that one wasn't totally necessary and was in response to posts like these which seem to think they all are necessary:

You need to clarify. Which vaccines do think are unnecessary?

Which ones are not necessary?

Do you have children? Which vaccines are not necessary that your pediatrician has recommended?

 

[Opiate]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1466938897/?tag=neogaf0e-20

In case it wasn't obvious, this book is told as a children's tale which explains that measles are not that bad, that getting measles is a natural and (in some ways) healthy part of growing up, and it is certainly better than getting a vaccine.

 

[Ratliff]

People devoted their lives to curing this disease. Creating an easily accessible vaccine so that this would not be an issue. Now people have to suffer mostly because their parents are fools.

 

[Zero Hero]

When I was a kid, I hung out with a family that believed that if you were virtuous enough, God would regrow lost limbs and keep a person from getting sick. No joke.

I guess that's why John the Baptist has like, six skulls floating around Europe.

Ended up getting chickenpox from one of those damned kids, too.

 

[crazygambit]

Chicken pox used to be, sure, but chicken pox and measles aren't the same disease. Kids today get chicken pox vaccines as well, because that is also a potentially fatal disease (though fatalities are rare).

I may be incredibly wrong on this, but I thought the point of vaccination wasn't so you wouldn't catch the disease, but to give your immune system a better chance to fight it, since you've already introduced it to a small dose of the virus (which is why vaccines sometimes can make you sick).

That means that instead of dying from stuff like chicken pox, you only get to be a week in bed.

I'm pretty sure I got some of those diseases I was vaccinated against and that the whole point was to get them after being vaccinated, because you'd be immune in the future. I could be wrong though.

 

[Mutanthands]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1466938897/?tag=neogaf0e-20

In case it wasn't obvious, this book is told as a children's tale which explains that measles are not that bad, that getting measles is a natural and (in some ways) healthy part of growing up, and it is certainly better than getting a vaccine.

...

Well, that's...something. Awful.

 

[Raist]

I may be incredibly wrong on this, but I thought the point of vaccination wasn't so you wouldn't catch the disease, but to give your immune system a better chance to fight it, since you've already introduced it to a small dose of the virus (which is why vaccines sometimes can make you sick).

That means that instead of dying from stuff like chicken pox, you only get to be a week in bed.

I'm pretty sure I got some of those diseases I was vaccinated against and that the whole point was to get them after being vaccinated, because you'd be immune in the future. I could be wrong though.

It's not "a small dose". Vaccines either use inactivated (dead) or attenuated (live but non-virulent) pathogens.
Vaccines aren't 100% effective obviously, but no, they're not meant to make you "still sick but a bit less". That's the whole point of immunization. You're literally immune to the pathogen.

 

[muu]

They really need to tighten down on the list of people who can decline vaccinations. These idiots don't have the brains to keep their sick kids out of daycare, then somehow feel it's big pharma's conspiracy to control America or some bullshit and present us with opportunities to get serious diseases to our kids that are still too young to get a lot of those vaccinations. These people are not murderers, they're child killers.

 

[crazygambit]

It's not "a small dose". Vaccines either use inactivated (dead) or attenuated (live but non-virulent) pathogens.
Vaccines aren't 100% effective obviously, but no, they're not meant to make you "still sick but a bit less". That's the whole point of immunization. You're literally immune to the pathogen.

Thanks. I didn't know the proper terminology, but something along those lines was what I meant by "small dose" as in less potency, not less amount of virus obviously.

 

[heyf00L]

It's not "a small dose". Vaccines either use inactivated (dead) or attenuated (live but non-virulent) pathogens.
Vaccines aren't 100% effective obviously, but no, they're not meant to make you "still sick but a bit less". That's the whole point of immunization. You're literally immune to the pathogen.

No you're not really immune, but your body is trained to recognize it and fight it giving you a much better chance to fight it off. You can still carry, spread, and get sick from whatever disease, but at a much lower rate than usual.

If we can lower that rate enough through vaccination, eventually the disease won't be able to spread and survive and will completely die off.

This is of course an over-simplification. But you can probably see why near everyone needs to be vaccinated for this to truly work. Groups of unvaccinated people can keep the diseases around, and spread it even to vaccinated people.

 

[entremet]

Thank you Jenny McCarthy.

Blame Oprah moreso. Crazy people are everywhere, but Oprah gave them a soapbox, like The Secret dude.

 

[Brannon]

I definitely remember getting hugged in chicken pox groups at a young age. The vaccine wasn't available in the US back then, so there you go. I'm sure the shingles will suck ass later in life, but severe pain can be overcome, hopefully. Adult chicken pox, however, is no joke. Serious business, that.

 

[Opiate]

...

Well, that's...something. Awful.

Next up: Elise's exciting ebola

 

[Mutanthands]

Next up: Elise's exciting ebola

Scarlett's Scintillating Scabies

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Next up: Elise's exciting ebola

Francine's Pleasant Polio