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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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W

WayneMorse

Banned
Bs1nmZ4IQAAviBi.jpg:large
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Mario said:
Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America it seems.

Seems entirely pro Israel.

Not sure I understand the billboard. Is that supposed to be a shiv stabbing Israel in the back?
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Either you are pro-Israel and a true 'Murican, or anti-Israel and a Pro-Muslim turrist.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
I was going to PM benjipwns about this but seeing as that he is banned I'll just as here.

He made this post in another thread that contained this chart:
1024px-Distribution_of_Annual_Household_Income_in_the_United_States_2012.png

So this means that the average American household makes $51,000? That seems a bit too high. Does it also include only people working? I'm just curious about this graph.
 
X

xnipx

Member
zero shift said:
I was going to PM benjipwns about this but seeing as that he is banned I'll just as here.

He made this post in another thread that contained this chart:
1024px-Distribution_of_Annual_Household_Income_in_the_United_States_2012.png

So this means that the average American household makes $51,000? That seems a bit too high. Does it also include only people working? I'm just curious about this graph.
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Median is not average. And usually "household" represents a 4 person household with 2 working parents. Why does that seem too high?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
thepotatoman said:
Colorado high court orders Denver to stop approving gay marriages

Oh well, it was good while it lasted. Back to waiting on appeals court again, like many other states.

EDIT: Just saw an update on twitter clarifying this is only for denver and not for bolder. Don't really get how that works.
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How about Colorado Springs? I bet their heads are exploding there at the Family Research Institute and other such places.

Well . . . Ted Haggard can get gay married now.
haggard_190.jpg
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
speculawyer said:
How about Colorado Springs? I bet their heads are exploding there at the Family Research Institute and other such places.

Well . . . Ted Haggard can get gay married now.
Click to expand...

I guess this only makes it illegal in two places, Adams county and Denver county. Everywhere else it is legal for now.

However, until the ban itself is ruled unconstitutional, it's up to all the other county and city clerks to personally decide if they want to allow gay marriage or not. It's quite a weird situation. The only cities I know of that have clerks issuing licences for same sex marriage are Denver, Pueblo, and Boulder, and maybe other cities are doing it too but aren't being covered in the media.

So I believe Ted Haggard is safe from the gay for now, but the gay is still geographically advancing toward him bit by bit, city by city, with the walls already crumbling down around him.
 
C

Cat

Member
Hey PoliGAF, I know the answer may seem obvious to those of you more informed but perhaps you could help shed some light for me so that I don't inwardly draw conclusions on false pretenses (confirmation bias if you want to call it that).

How was Reagan as a leader? Was he considered a good leader? How was he on foreign policy? Was there something he did or said that is somehow better than what Obama's done or said regarding the latest with this Malaysian Airlines crash? I ask because that seemed to be the implication from a Facebook post I saw today.

And just in general, what good things did he do and what bad things? I thought he wasn't really considered a good president.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
So are we gonna get a deal with Iran? The situation doesn't sound so good and the sides remain far apart. Perhaps we both think that the other needs us to help with the ISIS mess?

Get 'er done.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Cat said:
Hey PoliGAF, I know the answer may seem obvious to those of you more informed but perhaps you could help shed some light for me so that I don't inwardly draw conclusions on false pretenses (confirmation bias if you want to call it that).

How was Reagan as a leader? Was he considered a good leader? How was he on foreign policy? Was there something he did or said that is somehow better than what Obama's done or said regarding the latest with this Malaysian Airlines crash? I ask because that seemed to be the implication from a Facebook post I saw today.

And just in general, what good things did he do and what bad things? I thought he wasn't really considered a good president.
Click to expand...

Read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-of-playing-politics-in-the-wake-of-a-tragedy

It didn't take long in the wake of the apparent downing of Malaysia Air 17 for American partisanship to snake its way into the conversation. After President Obama gave brief (and somewhat clunky) comments on the attack before a pre-planned event on Thursday, conservatives were quick to draw a comparison with another president, much more popular with the right: Ronald Reagan.
Click to expand...
 
E

East Lake

Member
Cat said:
Hey PoliGAF, I know the answer may seem obvious to those of you more informed but perhaps you could help shed some light for me so that I don't inwardly draw conclusions on false pretenses (confirmation bias if you want to call it that).

How was Reagan as a leader? Was he considered a good leader? How was he on foreign policy? Was there something he did or said that is somehow better than what Obama's done or said regarding the latest with this Malaysian Airlines crash? I ask because that seemed to be the implication from a Facebook post I saw today.

And just in general, what good things did he do and what bad things? I thought he wasn't really considered a good president.
Click to expand...
You'd probably know more about Reagan than most of the people posting on facebook by reading his wikipedia article and clicking through the links on the scandals/events or whatever. Conservatives have been building him into a mythic figure for a while.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Cat said:
Hey PoliGAF, I know the answer may seem obvious to those of you more informed but perhaps you could help shed some light for me so that I don't inwardly draw conclusions on false pretenses (confirmation bias if you want to call it that).

How was Reagan as a leader? Was he considered a good leader? How was he on foreign policy? Was there something he did or said that is somehow better than what Obama's done or said regarding the latest with this Malaysian Airlines crash? I ask because that seemed to be the implication from a Facebook post I saw today.

And just in general, what good things did he do and what bad things? I thought he wasn't really considered a good president.
Click to expand...
He was a "straight shooting" of the people politician in an age where the Supreme Court was making unpopular decisions on abortion and democrats were being obstructionist even to Carter for not being far enough left on the abortion issue.

He also happened to rebrand economics in a decade that was going to be economically good regardless of the president's economic policy. Also in that economic rebranding is an updated version of dog whistle racist politics for a post civil rights act era with stories about "young bucks" and Cadillac owners taking government benefits they don't deserve.

There is really just a number of reasons for why Reagan became so popular. The main thing of note being how successful his pro-business policies were which define a whole new era in politics which we are currently still in.

His only reason for being considered a good leader is simply being so popular the Democrats were occasionally forced to listen to him just to survive even though they still didn't exactly roll over easy.

At least that's how I see it as a leftist myself. More or less the only thing that really matters is he clearly shifted momentum right and praise and criticism are mostly going to be made on that fact alone.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
thepotatoman said:
He was a "straight shooting" of the people politician in an age where the Supreme Court was making unpopular decisions on abortion and democrats were being obstructionist even to Carter for not being far enough left on the abortion issue.

He also happened to rebrand economics in a decade that was going to be economically good regardless of the president's economic policy. Also in that economic rebranding is an updated version of dog whistle racist politics for a post civil rights act era with stories about "young bucks" and Cadillac owners taking government benefits they don't deserve.

There is really just a number of reasons for why Reagan became so popular. The main thing of note being how successful his pro-business policies were which define a whole new era in politics which we are currently still in.

His only reason for being considered a good leader is simply being so popular the Democrats were occasionally forced to listen to him just to survive even though they still didn't exactly roll over easy.

At least that's how I see it as a leftist myself. More or less the only thing that really matters is he clearly shifted momentum right and praise and criticism are mostly going to be made on that fact alone.
Click to expand...

It also helps that he knew exactly how to manipulate the press in such a way that they could do a story that in this day and age would sink a president and would turn into a positive for him. I'm not kidding, there was one point where a news studio did an expose on all the bad shit Reagan did and they got a thank you call from the Reagan White House for using this thirty second clip of him eating jelly beans. The logic was that no one listened to the report, they just watched the footage and it worked.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
thepotatoman said:
He was a "straight shooting" of the people politician in an age where the Supreme Court was making unpopular decisions on abortion and democrats were being obstructionist even to Carter for not being far enough left on the abortion issue.

He also happened to rebrand economics in a decade that was going to be economically good regardless of the president's economic policy. Also in that economic rebranding is an updated version of dog whistle racist politics for a post civil rights act era with stories about "young bucks" and Cadillac owners taking government benefits they don't deserve.

There is really just a number of reasons for why Reagan became so popular. The main thing of note being how successful his pro-business policies were which define a whole new era in politics which we are currently still in.

His only reason for being considered a good leader is simply being so popular the Democrats were occasionally forced to listen to him just to survive even though they still didn't exactly roll over easy.

At least that's how I see it as a leftist myself. More or less the only thing that really matters is he clearly shifted momentum right and praise and criticism are mostly going to be made on that fact alone.
Click to expand...
To be fair Reagan's economic policy helped end the 80s recession sooner due to funneling money into the economy from HUGE tax cuts. However it wasn't without long term consenquences.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
zero shift said:
To be fair Reagan's economic policy helped end the 80s recession sooner due to funneling money into the economy from HUGE tax cuts. However it wasn't without long term consenquences.
Click to expand...

Well, in 87, Supply side was in fact the problem...it just was fixed quickly. CEOs and bankers saw how much money they were making and wanted to continue that...much to the continued detriment of the average worker.
 
C

Cat

Member
Thanks for the input, all, especially Cloudy (likely what FB post was about, article gave extra context) and thepotatoman for a nice read on your own insight.

East Lake, I'll try to wiki more on him someday.
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
AntoneM said:
Is this the equivalent of Newt Gingrich's Republicans actually caused the 90's boom?? The president gets no credit type thing.
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No? It's well understood that the recession was the direct result of the fed hiking interest rates to curb inflation. They lowered it again and the economy picked back up.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
AntoneM said:
Is this the equivalent of Newt Gingrich's Republicans actually caused the 90's boom?? The president gets no credit type thing.
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No. I could care less if Reagan gets credit. Its more the fact that it was the Fed policy not tax policy that spurred growth. I don't want that myth perpetuated. Its not based in fact, its was a coincidence.

Volcker fought inflation during Carter and early Reagan (remember Reagan wasn't looking good in early 83) by jacking up interest rates to fight the inflation which caused a recession, then when he lowered the rates the economy came back. It happened to coincide with the tax cuts.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Armoured Priest said:
Well, in 87, Supply side was in fact the problem...it just was fixed quickly. CEOs and bankers saw how much money they were making and wanted to continue that...much to the continued detriment of the average worker.
Click to expand...

In addition to Volcker, it's important to note that Carter presided over 10 million jobs in 4 years, compared to 16 million in Reagan's 8 years. If Reagan's growth was all caused by tax cuts, then it wasn't particularly that impressive.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
I was going to ask this in the Israel/Palestine thread but am too scared it will cause a (further) bloodbath. So, how exactly did this war escalate? Was Gaza and Israel exchanging too much fire until Israel (or Gaza?) finally said "fuck it!" and went all in?

Armoured Priest said:
Well, in 87, Supply side was in fact the problem...it just was fixed quickly. CEOs and bankers saw how much money they were making and wanted to continue that...much to the continued detriment of the average worker.
Click to expand...
Yes which is why I said it had long term consequences.

APKmetsfan said:
No. I could care less if Reagan gets credit. Its more the fact that it was the Fed policy not tax policy that spurred growth. I don't want that myth perpetuated. Its not based in fact, its was a coincidence.

Volcker fought inflation during Carter and early Reagan (remember Reagan wasn't looking good in early 83) by jacking up interest rates to fight the inflation which caused a recession, then when he lowered the rates the economy came back. It happened to coincide with the tax cuts.
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Interesting.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
zero shift said:
I was going to ask this in the Israel/Palestine thread but am too scared it will cause a (further) bloodbath. So, how exactly did this war escalate? Was Gaza and Israel exchanging too much fire until Israel (or Gaza?) finally said "fuck it!" and went all in?
Click to expand...
It started when 3 teens in West Bank were kidnapped and killed. Israel blamed Hamas, who denied responsibility. A palestinian was burned alive by Jewish teens in retaliation. Protests happened, people were shot by police. Suddenly Israel re-imprisoned people it freed under Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange deal. Hamas became furious and started shooting rockets. Israel responded with military operation with plans to invade the strip, with the goal of destroying tunnels Israel says Gaza is smuggling weapons. Keep in mind that Gaza is under total occupation by Israel, and under an intense, debilitating blockade that is starving the population and skyrocketed the unemployment rate to 40%. 1.5 million people live in Gaza, the size of Mobile, Alabama. Under this occupation, Hamas provides relief in the form of social and medical services through goods smuggled from tunnels to Egypt. Now the death toll stands at 293 Palestinians dead (80% civvies) and 1 IDF volunteer dead at the border. I heard two more IDF soldiers died in the ground offensive.

Last night I had to switch off Bill Maher. The guy is absolutely insufferable racist, misogynist dickwad.

rhCYu5W.jpg
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Z

zero shift

Banned
RustyNails said:
Last night I had to switch off Bill Maher. The guy is absolutely insufferable racist, misogynist dickwad.
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This is actually what made me ask this question. I was watching Maher's latest episode and I turned it off. It was my last straw as his comments toward Palestine and Snowden are ridiculous. I'm just glad that other pundits on the left (even Jewish ones) aren't cutting Israel any slack. I applauded Stewart's segment on the 14th.

EDIT - Sorry to edit but what the fuck did the phrase "israel uses shelters to protect their people against bombs, while Hamas uses their people to protect their bombs" even mean? Heard that on Maher's show last night.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Avon Barksdale said:
Bill Maher, sadly is to the right of Glenn Beck when it comes to the Middle East.
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The difference between Maher and most liberals is that he doesn't parrot that lazy line of bullshit "it's just a few bad apples in the Muslim community that are causing all the trouble". It's one of the things I like about him, although he has taken it a bit too far with his latest comments, and it doesn't really apply to the Palestinian situation anyway. The bottom line is though, the number of extremists + Muslims who at least sympathize with the extremists is a larger demographic than we'd like to admit, and there is no sense lying to ourselves about it.

I think Obama's inaction in the Middle East has acknowledged he feels the same way. A lot of these people want it this way, so just let them fight it out and we'll go after potential threats later if we have to. I mean, a city of nearly 2 million people in Iraq just rolled over and let itself be conquered by an extremist militia numbering in the few thousands. That doesn't happen to a population that is dominated by moderates who just want peace and democracy.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
I will admit that I am not an expert when it comes to Muslims across the globe. But in terms of Americans Bill has made comments such as "most American Muslims think harm should come to someone who insults Muhummad" or that "moderate American Muslims believe in honor killings" which is nowhere remotely true. Most American Muslims aren't that different than regular Americans. Especially American born ones.

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf
 
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