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Food for thought for those who don't care about 60fps.

nkarafo

Member
First, a question. Were you gaming in 1994-97 period? More specifically, did you care about arcade games back then?

See, i remember in that time period, modern arcade hardware was still the state of the art. Kinda like how an expensive PC is now, with dual titan cards or something. But more. No Pentium/3DFX combo, no PS1/Saturn/N64 could even come close to the likes of Model 2, System 22 and let alone Model 3. Heck, Model 3 was like a league of its own. I mean Sega struggled with inferior Model 2 ports on Saturn, so Model 3 was completely out of reach.

I remember the first time i saw Daytona. My eyes popped. The texture mapping. The 3D models. The smooth motion. Since then, arcades was like dream machines for me. With Sega Rally 2 being the ultimate game, one that was leagues ahead anything you could play at home, graphically.

I also remember the console ports. PS1/Saturn received plenty of arcade ports. But all of them were inferior. There were always sacrifices. But the most obvious one was always the frame rate. Arcades were 60, consoles were 30 or 25. I remember the buzz around Virtua Fighter 2 on Saturn actually being 60fps like the arcade. It received a huge hype from magazines of the time just for that reason alone. See, people back then cared about this thing. Because going from the smooth/realistic motion of 3D graphics to a stuttering/slower frame rate was jarring. It still is.

After the Dreamcast was released and Sega stopped making state of the art arcade machines, the huge gap between arcades and consoles almost closed. Suddenly, we could have awesome 3D graphics at 60fps in our homes, which was extremely rare on the previous consoles. Then the PS2/GC/XBOX came and 60fps games were almost as common as 30fps ones. Most importantly, the majority of racing games were 60fps (now its the minority).

And then the 360/PS3 generation came and made this huge step backwards by making 30fps the standard again. Just like those PS1 days. Why? Was it the higher resolution? PS1/GC/XBOX also had higher resolution than PS1/SAT/N64, it didn't stop them making 60fps a more common thing. And what about PS4/One. Just how powerful a system has to be so we can experience something we already experienced 10 years ago?

So, obviously its not a hardware/power thing. Its a "design choice". Supposedly. But why? Why people stopped caring about smooth motion? Heck, even on 8bit/16bit consoles 99% of games were 60fps (synced with the 60hz of TVs). Why isn't this a thing anymore? Is it that games became so mainstream and all the casual gamers don't care for anything except flashy effects and pretty pictures? Is it that gamers are too young to remember the days when 3D arcade games used to make or jaws drop? What the hell happened?

Thankfully Nintendo/Retro Studios gets it. Thankfully.
 

DNAbro

Member
I don't care cause a game is perfectly playable in 30fps or 60fps.

Born in 1995 so no i don't remember that arcade time period.
 

Daffy Duck

Member
Because things look so much better now!

Born in 81 so I remember all the arcade games of the 90s so well.

I drooled over Time Crisis and Daytona.
 

Magwik

Banned
Who cares as long as you're having a good time? Sure 60FPS is nice but that doesn't determine a game's quality at all.
 
First, a question. Were you gaming in 1994-97 period? More specifically, did you care about arcade games back then?

I grew up with Star Fox on the SNES, so I was fine with like 15, haha..

In fact, my family wasn't all that rich or anything, so I've commonly played PC games like Duke 3D at 10 fps, sometimes dropping all the way down to 2 fps. I've had much more patience back then, of course now I wouldn't dare play a 2 fps game...

Born in '89, btw. But never really hung around in arcades...
 

Laconic

Banned
Because I play games.

Play games.

Gameplay.

How a game plays is what matters.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.
 

nkarafo

Member
Because I play games.

Play games.

Game play.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.
Its about smooth motion my friend. Not numbers. Smooth motion that is sweet for the eyes. It increases the enjoyment you get from a game.
 
Because I play games.

Play games.

Game play.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.

The problem with this debate is that framerate directly affects gameplay.

Bad graphics, IQ, resolution, none of those direct affect gameplay. FPS does.
 
Yes I've been playing games since they were invented. And it's not that I don't care about 60 fps, it's clearly better, I just don't shun games that don't feature it because they're still very playable.
 
I have been gaming since 1979. Like another poster said, 60fps is nice, but it's not going to be a deal breaker for me.

I want a good, memorable game that is going to make me want to play it again. 60fps is not a necessity in that equation, it would only be a bonus.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
Born in 94, I was gaming in the PS1 era and I played arcade games in the malls I used to visit.

And to be quite honest, I don't care about 30 vs 60 FPS. 60 FPS is preferable, sure, but as long the game performs well at stable 30 FPS, that's all that matters to me.
 
Its about smooth motion my friend. Not numbers. Smooth motion that is sweet for the eyes. It increases the enjoyment you get from a game.

But that is specific to unstable frame rate, correct? So if it is a smooth, stable, 30 then everything is fine. And if it is an stable, smooth, 60 then yay.
 

Kyoufu

Member
I enjoy 60 fps as much as others but frame rate isn't going to be a factor in whether I play/enjoy a game or not.

I've been conditioned to play games with frame drops for all my life. Ever since Saturn shmups that would slow down during intense moments. Lately, the EDF games have provided me with tons of entertainment despite running at sub 20 fps for the majority of the time.
 

Fezan

Member
As a PC gamer from 2002 to 2005 I was used to play games in sub 30 800 *600 res. So 30fps is fine. I prefer 60 but can easily play shadow of colossus on ps2 etc
 

border

Member
Then the PS2/GC/XBOX came and 60fps games were almost as common as 30fps ones.

What games were you playing? I think you'd be hard pressed to name more than a couple dozen big games from that era that ran at 60fps. It was largely confined to racers and fighting games. Even Metal Gear eventually downgraded to 30fps.
 

Dominator

Member
This isn't giving me any food for thought in the slightest, sorry to say. I have as much fun playing a game at 30 over 60, or vice versa.

If the game is good and fun, than framerate means nothing. Now if it's a stuttering mess than that's another issue but 30 is completely fine.
 

TheGrue

Member
I have been gaming since 1979. Like another poster said, 60fps is nice, but it's not going to be a deal breaker for me.

I want a good, memorable game that is going to make me want to play it again. 60fps is not a necessity in that equation, it would only be a bonus.

Born in '72 and same here. Basically, as long as the FPS doesn't mess with my ability to control the game, I'm okay. I remember playing something like Morrowind with a computer I had at the time where I wanted the game to look nice, but it cost me frames. I ended up playing and beating that entire thing at 20 fps.
 

Korigama

Member
For games that focus on "cinematic" experiences that aren't geared toward mechanics, it doesn't seem to matter much. For games that are mechanically-oriented, however, like fighters and character action games (and action RPGs like Tales), it's quite important.
 

nkarafo

Member
The question here isn't about 30fps being playable.

Its about standards and expectations. Its about the industry going forward as the technology gets better. Today we have machines that offer a much bigger room for graphics/effects/smooth frame rates. I find it unacceptable that 60fps was much more common thing on inferior 2001 hardware than it is now. Obviously the standards have dropped. Its a step back.

Isn't it?
 
And then the 360/PS3 generation came and made this huge step backwards by making 30fps the standard again. Just like those PS1 days. Why? Was it the higher resolution? PS1/GC/XBOX also had higher resolution than PS1/SAT/N64, it didn't stop them making 60fps a more common thing. And what about PS4/One. Just how powerful a system has to be so we can experience something we already experienced 10 years ago?

I think it has to do with the hardware. Both the PS3 and 360 had unproportional amounts of RAM to their graphical power. RAM was a bottleneck, unlike this time around. Had they had 1GB of unified memory, I think that would have helped a lot.
 
The question here isn't about 30fps being playable.

Its about standards and expectations. Its about the industry going forward as the technology gets better. Today we have machines that offer a much bigger room for graphics/effects/smooth frame rates. I find it unacceptable that 60fps was much more common thing on inferior 2001 hardware than it is now. Obviously the standards have dropped. Its a step back.

Isn't it?

No, you're just jaded and need a reason to validate it.
 

Nabs

Member
Nice thread. I remember buying a Dreamcast with the hopes of getting that arcade quality at home.
 

MCN

Banned
Born in '84, raised on the ZX Spectrum. Honestly couldn't give less of a shit about 60fps, and it seems to me to be just another number people use in ridiculous console/pc wars for pointless point-scoring.
 

nkarafo

Member
What games were you playing? I think you'd be hard pressed to name more than a couple dozen big games from that era that ran at 60fps. It was largely confined to racers and fighting games. Even Metal Gear eventually downgraded to 30fps.
I don't care enough to make a list for you and i'm lazy, but you can look it up yourself if you want.
 

Guinness

Neo Member
I am sick of this 30/60fps war trend. I wish I read more posts about the game itself rather than things like "no 60fps no buy".

Games are all about gameplay and level design IMO. I played and loved games on Nintendo 64 with sub-20fps, so 30fps is perfectly fine for me. As long as framerate is stable/locked, I don't mind.
 

DNAbro

Member
The question here isn't about 30fps being playable.

Its about standards and expectations. Its about the industry going forward as the technology gets better. Today we have machines that offer a much bigger room for graphics/effects/smooth frame rates. I find it unacceptable that 60fps was much more common thing on inferior 2001 hardware than it is now. Obviously the standards have dropped. Its a step back.

Isn't it?

if they can make a better game at 30fps, then they should go for it. 60fps is not necessary so I don't mind that "it's a step back." It's a standard that doesn't really need to exist.
 
I don't care cause a game is perfectly playable in 30fps or 60fps.

Born in 1995 so no i don't remember that arcade time period.

Stable 30 is fine by me.

Born in '95.

Born in 94, I was gaming in the PS1 era and I played arcade games in the malls I used to visit.

And to be quite honest, I don't care about 30 vs 60 FPS. 60 FPS is preferable, sure, but as long the game performs well at stable 30 FPS, that's all that matters to me.

I was going to bring up this point about age but you young'uns already did. I'm not much older than you guys, born in 87, but that was old enough to where I remember going to the movies with the family and playing in the arcades near the theaters. Arcades were always this magical place where video games were uninhibited graphically. I also remember going home to play shittier versions of the games I played in arcades.

Specifically, I also remember the decline of arcades. It was when cabinets began using console comparable parts and in a lot of cases, actual home consoles in the cabinets.


I DO profer 60 fps but it's not going to stop me from playing a game. After a few minutes of 30 fps you kinda forget about framerate anyway.
 

KJRS_1993

Member
1993, I don't think the average NeoGAF armchair developer (and their are oh so many) realise just little of a shit the general populace gives about frame rate. Or resolution for that matter.
 

rjc571

Banned
I've come to accept that most gamers have zero regard for standards. At least I'll always have PC, Nintendo and classic gaming to fall back on when I want 60 fps.
 

nkarafo

Member
I played and loved games on Nintendo 64 with sub-20fps, so 30fps is perfectly fine for me.
What you don't get is that N64/PS1/SAT were early 3D capable consoles that weren't powerful enough. For us, gamers, textured 3D graphics alone were amazing enough but if we wanted the smooth/perfect experience, we had to spend quarters in arcades.

So you played 30fps games on N64. Does that justify the fact that you have the same limitation now, with hardware that is like, 10.000 times more powerful?
 

jesu

Member
I grew up with an Atari 2600 a ZX Spectrum and an Amiga and have no idea what the framerate was with any of them.
Hardly ever played arcades, don't mind 30fps.
Don't think I even knew what framerate was until a few years ago.
 

Nipo

Member
Then people would be sticking with 360/ps3

Which most people are. People tends to upgrade consoles because the games they want to play are only available on current gen. People who care about top of the line graphics tend to prefer PCs
 

Eusis

Member
Because I play games.

Play games.

Gameplay.

How a game plays is what matters.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.
FPS actually matter for gameplay though. Well, so can the other two, but that's even more situation while higher FPS is straight up more responsive gameplay and more visual information that is likely relevant.

Mind, this really depends on the genre and style of the game, some are built for 30 just fine or can go to that, or its something like a turn based game where 15 is technically playable albeit not desirable on modern hardware.

Anyways, 1984 here and like I said it's situational. I am disappointed at how racing games are faltering outside of hardcore sims and Mario Kart though. Granted the better ones are focusing damn high on highly responsive gameplay, but that's saying a lot about how important smooth gameplay innately is for the genre.
 

DNAbro

Member
I was going to bring up this point about age but you young'uns already did. I'm not much older than you guys, born in 87, but that was old enough to where I remember going to the movies with the family and playing in the arcades near the theaters. Arcades were always this magical place where video games were uninhibited graphically. I also remember going home to play shittier versions of the games I played in arcades.

Specifically, I also remember the decline of arcades. It was when cabinets began using console comparable parts and in a lot of cases, actual home consoles in the cabinets.


I DO profer 60 fps but it's not going to stop me from playing a game. After a few minutes of 30 fps you kinda forget about framerate anyway.

after playing the Destiny beta (30)and then going to battlefield 4(60) I immediately went "oh that's different", but both are perfectly fine. 60 is nice but yeah, it makes very very little difference in enjoyment.
 
Because I play games.

Play games.

Gameplay.

How a game plays is what matters.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.

and of course none of these things relate to each other whatsoever

i really don't like posts like this,get outta here with your 'masturbatory' implications just because you don't value FPS like some of us; shit absolutely relates to the gameplay and feel of a game, ymmv or not

Sounds like you care more about specs than actual gaming.

eeeeeey, early confirmation that this thread is going to be absolutely as ridiculous as every thread in which this subject is brought up
 
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