Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Then they should be doing it on their own instead of wearing a shit-covered jersey for safety in numbers
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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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Then they should be doing it on their own instead of wearing a shit-covered jersey for safety in numbers
ShockingAlberto
Member
I for one think hyperinflation in Germany to pay down the war debt is what lost us our strength as a country. I don't know what social policies these guys have, but they're definitely making fiscal sense, so I'm going to support them getting into office.
shacklesmcgee
Member
I think we should talk about they problems the tech industry has with wom-
Oh....o k then.
Oh....o k then.
Take police action on those making threats if you are genuinely scared.
Move on with work/life instead of preaching to the choir so hard that the people who pull this shit can enjoy their success and the people in the middle get insulted/annoyed/run off.
Do you guys not look at @ mentions of anyone remotely famous? Look at any sports writers mentions and you'll see creepy ass threats just because someone wrote something bad about their team. Shit is even worse in the political arena. The majority of people are idiots, and a sadly large subset of that are genuinely disturbed. No amount of twitter and GAF anger about it is going to do ANYTHING.
If you actually want less crazy harassment online vote for and invest in better mental health services for the public. Anything else is just changing the target to the next controversy gaming related or not.
LiegeWaffle
Member
#StopGamerGate2014 is in the trends.
There's not really a point of rallying against GamerGate per se, since it's just a banner which actually does not mean anything (besides having tons of negative connotations). Rallying against harassment sounds like a good plan, though.
Basically: bad people don't have to be mentally ill to be bad people. That's actually a really gross, damaging sentiment.
Thank you for your well wishes.
You do realize you don't have to side with Gamergate right? The Industry absolutely has problems with corruption, but the problem isn't with indie developers and there are far better outlets for this discussion than the cesspool that is GG. How much has GG talked about paid reviews and exclusive coverage and all that?
I hope that by now, even if it wasn't clear to them a month ago, those reasonable-minded people who actually do want to fight for ethics in journalism have realized this is a hate campaign, plain and simple. If you consider yourself moderate and still support GamerGate, it's time to reexamine things. Maybe soon we'll be able to start more discussions (even here on GAF) about ethics in journalism that stay far away from this hashtag, but right now, sadly, the hatred has drowned out any sort of legitimate discussions people might want to have.
My hat is off to Carolyn Petit. Her words are true, renaming in silence only feeds this negative, corrosive and harmful culture where death threats and calls to violence are becoming too common. It also takes a lot of courage and bravery from Carolyn Petit and Anita Sarkeesian to do what they do; speak out, and challenge the status-quo. This is why I admired this two strong and vocal women. It's okay if I am labeled a feminists, a white knight, or a social justice knight, or whatever other silly term there is out there. We should be free to criticize and speak about the underlying issues reflected in any art form as the rational human beings that we are. We do the same thing in film, threatre, books and art, why can't it be the same for video games? Video games are an art form where the artists intentions are interpreted and shaped by their socio-cultural upbringing. Why can't we analyze this elements, have dialogue about them, and respectfully disagree about certain trends in gaming, and video games in general?
Brutalitops
Banned
The problem is, ANYONE can do ANYTHING and claim affiliation with Gamergate. The idiot behind the threat should not be associated with it. I support gamergate, and I and most others wouldn't condone this shit.
Generalising all gamergaters is not a good way to get a point across
Generalising all gamergaters is not a good way to get a point across
Hey you clearly haven't been paying any goddamn attention and are talking out your ass. How about you "shut the fuck up about it"?
People are being victimised, and lies are being spread around about them in order to justify that abuse, and all this just because they're doing their jobs and wanting to participate in this medium. Is everyone supposed to just stay quiet and watch that happen again and again? Just sit back in our big ol' privilege chairs and watch as the industry is made measurably worse by the efforts of these people?
This isn't just a bunch of immature people "doing it for the lulz" like 4chan raids to get the time top 100 to spell out "The Game". This is people seeing things they don't like or even understand come within the borders of their precious hobby and they are viciously attacking it with any and every excuse they can gin up.
And the worst thing? A lot of well-intentioned but frankly stupid people are getting caught up on those excuses, and think that's what they're fighting for. And they're doing a lot of the noise-making and harassment and digging up of information for the really vicious people to use.
So no. Not talking about it, or informing people, or refuting lies and slander isn't going to help anything.
Ignore the Bullies! Don't Feed the Trolls! They're platitudes that have never fucking stopped bullying and never helped the victims. Just stop reading the thread if people less ignorant than you annoy you that much.
#notallgamergaters
LaserBuddha
Member
Wearing the #gamergate tag is like making a swastika the symbol of your political party. Yeah there's other meanings it can have if you stop and explain it, but still seriously what the fuck are you doing?
aspiegamer
Member
This is the proper attitude. Claiming there are two sides here are like saying there are two sides a neo nazi movement or two sides to drowning kittens for fun, two sides to arson or two sides against stopping ebola. It's not even on the level of bullshit that society inexplicably somehow permits there to be two sides of like insane climate deniers or Benghazi truthers. We're a society that accepts (and to a degree welcomes) a whole lot of strange types of dissent, but goddamn, drawing the line at death threats and terrorism shouldn't be controversial.
Worldwide even, holy crap. Oh god. Geoff Knightley posted something with the hashtag. Well, it was nice knowing him.
Devolution
Member
Bro it's pretty much over and done with.
Gamergate started in shit, it was coined by a total bigoted asshole and it has done absolutely fuckall to bring attention to corruption in the industry.
Suzushiiro
Banned
To be fair to the GGers, while I haven't read a GG *chan thread since moot kicked them out of 4chan, back then pretty much every time someone posted anything resembling a legit threat they proceeded to get a dozen replies of "GET THE FUCK OUT." I'd imagine that hasn't changed.
It kinda goes back to what I said a few (dozen?) pages ago about how judging a group by its most extreme members is even more flawed than usual when said members are anonymous internet people. I can tab over to TweetDeck right now and tweet "Jews did 9/11 #gamergate #notyourshield #yesallwomen #feminism". Does that suddenly make GG and feminism anti-semetic truther movements?
And as someone responded to me, even if you restrict your judgement to the "average" members or to people who aren't completely anonymous the movement is problematic, and it's fine to think that. But saying certain extremists represent gamergate (or "anti-gamergate", for that matter) when it's impossible for you to prove if they're with the side you don't like or just trying to make them look bad is kinda shitty.
Don't get me wrong, GG's tendency to react to any legit threat on someone they don't like by No True Scotsman-ing the offender and claiming it's a false flag is also shitty, but at the same time, it does happen at least occasionally.
(For those who don't get what's going on in the linked pic- the highlighted 27c1a9 is the unique ID posters receive in some *chan boards to make it so that while they're anonymous with respect to the board they're not anonymous with respect to the thread. In other words, the person posting the threat and the person going "ha ha you're fucked now gamergate" are the same person.)
It kinda goes back to what I said a few (dozen?) pages ago about how judging a group by its most extreme members is even more flawed than usual when said members are anonymous internet people. I can tab over to TweetDeck right now and tweet "Jews did 9/11 #gamergate #notyourshield #yesallwomen #feminism". Does that suddenly make GG and feminism anti-semetic truther movements?
And as someone responded to me, even if you restrict your judgement to the "average" members or to people who aren't completely anonymous the movement is problematic, and it's fine to think that. But saying certain extremists represent gamergate (or "anti-gamergate", for that matter) when it's impossible for you to prove if they're with the side you don't like or just trying to make them look bad is kinda shitty.
Don't get me wrong, GG's tendency to react to any legit threat on someone they don't like by No True Scotsman-ing the offender and claiming it's a false flag is also shitty, but at the same time, it does happen at least occasionally.
(For those who don't get what's going on in the linked pic- the highlighted 27c1a9 is the unique ID posters receive in some *chan boards to make it so that while they're anonymous with respect to the board they're not anonymous with respect to the thread. In other words, the person posting the threat and the person going "ha ha you're fucked now gamergate" are the same person.)
BlastProcessing
Member
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
And it blew up once it started to get aired out in public. I am not saying nothing should be done about it. I just think these threats and harassment need to be dealt with privately. I am not sure what good a million people saying "that's not okay" is going to do, and it seems to have done nothing so far. The people making these attacks know what they are doing is not culturally accepted, but they believe their actions are just because "the other side's actions" are more egregious. So what? I should go on Twitter and tell them to stop? Why don't I tell ISIS to stop while I am at it.
In 2008 Wizard's of the Coast took it upon themselves to completely alter a product after 30 years of it being consistent, Dungeons & Dragons.
When the consumers received it, they loathed the content, and told the Developers that. Who promptly dismissed them. Large arguments burst out, flame wars grew very heated, fans of 4th edition made it their job to drive out anyone who dared to criticize the new edition.
A year later WOTC had a huge problem, their customer base had shrank drastically, forcing them to try and walk back their changes.
By late 2010, for the first time in more than 30 years, Dungeons and Dragons ceased to be the number 1 RPG. A company who was basically reprinting the previous work they abandoned outsold them with it.
By late 2011 WOTC was canning 4th edition and returning to the original style with the hope of regaining the very large number of people they lost.
It's something everyone might want to stop and think about, because it is happening again today.
FF Seraphim
Member
I would highly advise if you want your position to be taken seriously that you and everyone who is like you make a new group that isn't tainted with hate.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
And this was where you forfeited any chances of being taken seriously
Devolution
Member
When these things aren't made public then there is less knowledge and solidarity that people can have with each other as victims, because they're just individuals undergoing terrible things without the knowledge that they're not alone.
They obviously weren't here when Dragona was a mod.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The problem is that you view this as you being pounced upon by people claiming affiliation. You think you have good intentions, but it's other people who are screwing it up.
The truth is probably the opposite of that. Peruse the hashtag on twitter. Look at the Gamergate heroes like Adam Baldwin and Milo Yiannopoulus. They are not championing journalistic ethics; when pressed, few can even really explain what it is they want. This is about some people feeling oppressed by calls for diversity and feeling the power of the million man march in their fingers when they type screeds against it.
Even if the threats and harassment don't come directly from people within Gamergate (and it is all a moot point because they certainly sprung from the culture it has gleefully cultivated), the remaining flesh on the bone is not significantly less rancid than the parts you're desperately trying to chop away here.
No. Stop it. You do NOT get to pick and choose who is associated with the movement. If you don't want to be associated with these asshats you MUST disown #Gamergate and start a different movement, one that is completely divorced from all the mindless hate.
If you don't, you will get swept up with the tide. There is no stopping it.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'm dead sure there are at least some that actually think what they are doing is different from drooling over the thought of women dying.
Seriously.
It boggles my mind why people still want to be associated with GamerGate.
Fuck this article. Don't let "anonymous devs" give this any credibility. I work in the industry myself and I am strongly opposed to GG, so let's just even this out and say your career doesn't matter in throwing weight behind a "side."
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I 100% agree that the hashtag is rotten and should be left to die. I apologize for my edit in my initial reply but my point is that when things are said like "it's the whole world against #gamergate" then it will continue to polarize people. No exceptions. Some of those people who are polarized should probably wake up and realize what #gamergate has become. Yep! You and I agree on this.
But the missing piece of the puzzle is that #gamergate supporters are trying really, really really hard to also propagate the message about evil journalists, corruption, and so forth. True? That being the case, as long as #gamergate holds the banner of "down with corrupt game journalism" then people who agree with that are going to rally toward that flag, get caught up in the hate, and make their alliances.
You know what would be aces? I mean, you know what would really stick a pin in the whole thing? If major gaming websites did an "audit" of some sort on themselves instead of simply saying "nope. No corruption here. I mean, we investigated. So, nothing to see". I'm not asking for dirt. Just honesty.
Take the "corrupt journalism" banner away from #gamergate and they lose.
See above. #gamergate spends a ton of effort (we've seen numerous examples of their posts in this thread) to claim ownership over the whole "journos are corrupt" issue. The movement is tainted but they're trying to appear clean by rallying behind an issue that - in my opinion - is a noteworthy issue. It's not so much about taking sides. It's the fact that if you do feel there's something corrupt with game journalism, then #gamergate holds that flag right now.
I seriously hope that in like, a year this will all be over and someone can start a legit movement about actual corruption in the video game industry.
I haven't made one gg post on here or twitter but its been clear since day one the majority of gg had no intention to harass anyone but the press and anti gg if anything wanted it just so they could push this exact narrative so the 99% of non threats could also be dismissed.
Congratulations got what they wanted sadly.
billy beane
Banned
Yeah. If we want to address the issue, we should get more organized. It's kind've a problem that the GamerGate side seems more organized, even if they really aren't.
BlastProcessing
Member
I don't get your point here. Something about market forces? Competition?
Devolution
Member
What? It started with revenge porn and harassment of a indie dev.
You make a valid point. My point still stands, about the generalizations, and the harassment issues though. No matter where it's coming from, it just needs to stop. It isn't okay.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
If I respond to you further, I'll most likely be banned. So.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I wouldn't doubt there are some devs out there that side with GG-the dev side of the industry has its own issues with misogyny.
Glad to see you unequivocally against it though
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Hey, you know what's a more relevant example? Starting a decade ago or so Wizards also decided, completely on their own, to embrace diversity and gender representation in their #1 product, Magic: the Gathering. They have aggressively created as many diverse female characters as male characters with a wide variety of characterizations and visual styles. The game now features female figures that fit every archetype alongside their male counterparts, with smart and stylish visual designs for each one. And Magic is still their #1 smash hit product.
I could possibly, maybe agree with you on the part about the majority of GG people if the Gamergate hashtag didn't start with an Adam Baldwin Twitter post that linked to a video harassing Zoe Quinn.
FF Seraphim
Member
What?
Anyway, Pathfinder is freaking awesome and I am warming up to 5th edition... but Pathfinder still seems much better....
Most Gaters won't condone a death threat.
Just every popular voice in the movement will mock it, call it fake, make 30 minute videos about how they did it to themselves, etc. When these things get 10 thousand views and hundreds of retweets, well, it doesn't reflect a whole lot better than the threats. The movement might not be making the threats, but a huge chunk of it is dismissing them outright.
If GG really wanted to move beyond the harrassment, they'd have ditched the Milos, the Sargons, the FarttoContinues, the Roguestarz. But they only get more popular.
Just every popular voice in the movement will mock it, call it fake, make 30 minute videos about how they did it to themselves, etc. When these things get 10 thousand views and hundreds of retweets, well, it doesn't reflect a whole lot better than the threats. The movement might not be making the threats, but a huge chunk of it is dismissing them outright.
If GG really wanted to move beyond the harrassment, they'd have ditched the Milos, the Sargons, the FarttoContinues, the Roguestarz. But they only get more popular.
Luckily people have been discussing ethics in journalism and gaming journalism for a long time and there is literally no reason for #gg to even be a thing. But you know, whatever.
Not talking about harassment and death threats will most definitely not end harassment and death threats. It was posted awhile back, but is relevant now all the same. http://seriouspony.com/trouble-at-the-koolaid-point (THE GAME IS FIXED section especially).
LaserBuddha
Member
I feel like the corruption in the industry the "white hat gamergaters" are concerned about amounts to as much in reality as the voter fraud that Republicans are "concerned" about. Im not really convinced by any angle of this movement.
JesseEwiak
Member
The problem is, short of summarily firing whoever the Internet hates this week, #Gamergate won't be happy. Kotaku and Polygon changed their ethics policies, and those two sites are still public enemies #1 and #2 among the Gamergaters.
Saying #Gamergate will calm down if sites do an "audit" and admit mistakes that they've supposedly commited is sort of like saying, oh, the Tea Party will calm down if Obama admits Obamacare is a failure, he is actually a socialist, black people are voting fraudently and gays are ruining marriage.
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