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[RealityPales]

I find the sales of Sony's PS4 to be both extremely pleasing and somewhat worrying. Of course, the best console will obviously rise above and win, but it does worry me when the competition is being crushed so much.

People talk about arrogant Sony of the past, and while I doubt such a stance will ever make a return what with their company's current financial situation, I do feel like some arrogance may bubble up. Sales are well, extremely well in fact. However, with competition being smashed to the ground and no real way of picking up and actually competing, is it possible for the industry to continue on the road of innovation?

Again, I am happy to see the better product succeeding. It was clear from the start that the Xbox One's design process faulted at some point, bringing us to where the product is now. Will it climb up and gain a better position? Who knows. I don't think we will see third party support dropping like we are with the Wii U and Nintendo, due to Microsoft still having a quite "next-gen" appropriate console. However, we may see a continued approach of PS4 first, everything else second (outside of PC of course which is usually given free reign approach).

TLDR; Sony has done well, will be interesting to see where the industry goes as a clear "victor" is carved.

I don't see that happening with Shu, House, Boyes and the like.

Totally different people at the helm. Totally different culture.

 

[kswiston]

So did Sales GAF decide to go all Reservoir Dogs on each other yesterday?

 

[Zephyrus]

Lol that tag.

I really feel like the most unimportant member here by not having a tag...

seems like everyone has one.

 

[kswiston]

I really feel like the most unimportant member here by not having a tag...

seems like everyone has one.

Plenty of long time posters are Tagless. I've been here just under a decade, and have 15k posts. It just depends on what threads you frequent (and sometimes how loud you are).

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Technically, she had herself banned.

Because there seems to be some sort of idealized view of what this forum should be, that we shouldn't resort to any obfuscation to prevent the loss of information that informs our discussion. That doing so is like pushing the button in The Dark Knight. Something I don't really understand since... it's just an internet forum.

The problem is that there are very few places that actually have legit numbers. If it wasn't for GAF, the only numbers the majority of people would have is Chartz. I'd personally want the numbers for everything visible for the world to see. Dunno the point in leaking it otherwise.

However, she's the one with the info so it's her prerogative to handle the information as she sees fit, and no one really has the right to complain since she's practically a saint when it comes to giving GAF info.

 

[bigboss370]

People talk about arrogant Sony of the past, and while I doubt such a stance will ever make a return what with their company's current financial situation, I do feel like some arrogance may bubble up. Sales are well, extremely well in fact. However, with competition being smashed to the ground and no real way of picking up and actually competing, is it possible for the industry to continue on the road of innovation?

when people talk about "arrogant sony" they are referring to a span of a few months, during PS3's launch, where they made some arrogant comments. This is a company that's been in the console video game business for 20 years. "arrogant sony" is not actually a thing.

 

[Verendus]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

Edit:

Nintendo?

I'm letting you know in advance, I'm going to steal this joke from you. Hope you don't mind.

 

[bigboss370]

The problem is that there are very few places that actually have legit numbers. If it wasn't for GAF, the only numbers the majority of people would have is Chartz. I'd personally want the numbers for everything visible for the world to see. Dunno the point in leaking it otherwise.

However, she's the one with the info so it's her prerogative to handle the information as she sees fit, and no one really has the right to complain since she's practically a saint when it comes to giving GAF info.

her reasons for doing so are sound.

I know so much about the NPD Group.


I know how they've crushed multiple leak sources throughout the past five years...I know the details of what went down in the GameCrate.com leak and how they reprimanded NewEgg.

I know their administration's policy on GAF, and how their administration is getting increasingly intolerant of leaks with every passing month.

I know how their administration is teetering on the verge of contacting sites with cease-and-desist orders to shut leaks down permanently.


It's just an incredibly stressful thing. So when you say "Oh, Aquamarine, it's fine! Creamsugar has been leaking stuff for a generation now!"

You don't realize that organisations change. The NPD Group of 2005 is not the same NPD Group of 2009 is not the same NPD Group of today.



You don't know how stressful it is until you have received letters sent to a large number of clients from NPD HQ warning of "leaks."

 

[kswiston]

when people talk about "arrogant sony" they are referring to a span of a few months, during PS3's launch, where they made some arrogant comments. This is a company that's been in the console video game business for 20 years. "arrogant sony" is not actually a thing.

People try to fit patterns where they don't really exist. They were arrogant/cocky early on with the PS2 PR statements as well. The big difference is it backfired last gen due to major miscalculations on what pricing the market would support for a new console.

 

[joecanada]

I really feel like the most unimportant member here by not having a tag...

seems like everyone has one.

Don't be too downtrodden about it. I hear the most common way to get a tag is to say something real dumb....

 

[bigboss370]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

quite sad really.

 

[Rymuth]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

Pretty much.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Out of curiosity, do people who ask for the numbers know there's a thread-specific search function. And if so, do they actually try and use it at all before asking?

The problem is that there are very few places that actually have legit numbers. If it wasn't for GAF, the only numbers the majority of people would have is Chartz. I'd personally want the numbers for everything visible for the world to see. Dunno the point in leaking it otherwise.

However, she's the one with the info so it's her prerogative to handle the information as she sees fit, and no one really has the right to complain since she's practically a saint when it comes to giving GAF info.

The limited transparency in the industry isn't on the members on here to remedy. That's a result of the monopoly on reliable tracker data, and the publishers and manufacturers themselves.

As for the point of providing the info specifically on here, I thought it was self-evident... to provide something for the people on here to discuss.

-----

Stepping away from the meta-discussion for a moment, the TTM for the "core" segment oriented consoles jumped to about 11.4M units this month. I know some people seem to hate this metric. I'm not using it as an indicator of the dedicated industry health as a whole. And it doesn't mean the industry hasn't declined dramatically. But I think it's useful though in terms of looking at the future potential of certain genres, franchises and publishers.

(Stepping back to the meta-discussion, this is the type of comment I wouldn't be able to make without the provision of information some of our members provide.)

 

[bigboss370]

People try to fit patterns where they don't really exist. They were arrogant/cocky early on with the PS2 PR statements as well. The big difference is it backfired last gen due to major miscalculations on what pricing the market would support for a new console.

yup and they adjusted. there was never anything actually wrong with what they were selling, just the comments they made. it wasn't "arrogant sony" for pricing the ps3 that high, since the hardware actually out-valued the cost. it was the pr.

 

[joecanada]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

Edit:


I'm letting you know in advance, I'm going to steal this joke from you. Hope you don't mind.

A real shame if true. Neogaf is special because of the ability to get data seldom seen anywhere, there was no reason to complain about the flashes of brilliance we got was great discussion and always of interest.
Lessens the effect of some great threads immediately

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Plenty of long time posters are Tagless. I've been here just under a decade, and have 15k posts. It just depends on what threads you frequent (and sometimes how loud you are).

It's that simple?

 

[Zerokku]

Don't be too downtrodden about it. I hear the most common way to get a tag is to say something real dumb....

That would be correct.

>.>

 

[Loudninja]

That would be correct.

>.>

Don't know what you are talking about.

<_<

 

[SeventhSon]

Well I'm going to keep using the email tag system for the Sept numbers.

For Aquamarine

 

[Kayant]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

Yep

I doubt she will be willing or able? to provide data when she comes back. The whole thing was really silly. Just accept it for what it is, people more often than not figure out the obfuscation in the end so clear numbers still come out if you can't be asked to decode or didn't get the cryptic message the first time at least you got numbers in the end. Now we may not have anything...

 

[ShemhazaiX]

her reasons for doing so are sound.

I'm not saying they aren't. All I was saying was that GAF members make up only a small portion of the internet. As soon as it becomes a place where people can't get the numbers, they'll end up going to Chartz, or worse and the amount of misinformation would be awful.

However, obviously she needs to take big precautions with how she relays that info, and if it means there's no info at all without her talking in code then there's nothing much more to say about it.

 

[kswiston]

It's that simple?

Posting 20-30 times a day also seems to help.

 

[Verendus]

Some of you messed up, let me tell you. There are people on these forums that have access to this data who won't give it to you. Sometimes you need to take a step back and pick your battles. You could have all figured out a way that everyone would be happy with (which it seems like you were kind of doing from what I'm seeing), but then it all imploded.

 

[Nightengale]

I know it's an inconvenience, but people are putting their necks out there for something that they have zero obligation to do. Aqua and cream do not need to share anything at all, and yet they do.

Even if they want a million loopholes to access what they're sharing, I feel they're more than entitled to. They don't owe us anything.

 

[SeventhSon]

Being discreet about leaked information on behalf of and at the request of the leakers is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion.

 

[kswiston]

Some of you messed up, let me tell you. There are people on these forums that have access to this data who won't give it to you. Sometimes you need to take a step back and pick your battles. You could have all figured out a way that everyone would be happy with (which it seems like you were kind of doing from what I'm seeing), but then it all imploded.

There are 100k members on this forum. You can't expect everyone to follow a set of rules like this is a small clubhouse. Hell even banning doesn't stop some types of behaviours. If people are not comfortable posting data, they shouldn't post data. If people want to post data in email tags, they should feel free to do so. However, you can't really be surprised when you get complainers or others posting plain text summaries of that data.

Consensus among 100k people is impossible.

 

[N.Domixis]

Time to kickstart an NPD subscription from all users on Neogaf?

 

[RexNovis]

Nvm mistook one member for another

 

[florin3k3]

How many people already own a ps4? The Xbox One outsold it despite having an already smaller user base.

This. I know people are saying "didn't count bundles" but still...
That's gotta be good news for MS.

 

[Y2Kev]

Here you go

NPD Results for Every Month Going Forward

1. PS4, Lots But Not Enough to Ward Off Hindle
2. Xbone
3. Firmware updates
4. 3ds
5. Dead frogs
6. vita

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Posting 20-30 times a day also seems to help.

Yeah, I can't do all that.

 

[Loudninja]

This. I know people are saying "didn't count bundles" but still...
That's gotta be good news for MS.

The bundle did 300k.

 

[stryke]

I'm not saying they aren't. All I was saying was that GAF members make up only a small portion of the internet. As soon as it becomes a place where people can't get the numbers, they'll end up going to Chartz, or worse and the amount of misinformation would be awful.

Ironically this is now happening anyway thanks to people like you.

 

[Verendus]

There are 100k members on this forum. You can't expect everyone to follow a set of rules like this is a small clubhouse. Hell even banning doesn't stop some types of behaviours. If people are not comfortable posting data, they shouldn't post data. If people want to post data in email tags, they should feel free to do so. However, you can't really be surprised when you get complainers or others posting plain text summaries of that data.

Consensus among 100k people is impossible.

I'm not surprised to be fair. There are plenty of insane, and entertaining, things that happen on this forum. I just think if people care enough, then sometimes it's best to not complicate matters, especially if you don't have the dealing hand.

 

[Curufinwe]

She took an Internet forum too seriously.

NPD isn't an internet forum, and it should be taken seriously. The demanding attitude of ungrateful jerks didn't help, either.

 

[kswiston]

Here you go

NPD Results for Every Month Going Forward

1. PS4, Lots But Not Enough to Ward Off Hindle
2. Xbone
3. Firmware updates
4. 3ds
5. Dead frogs
6. vita

Company specific PR going forward: "How awesome did our games sell this month? So awesome. In fact, sales were up 143% over months when Emma Stone stars in films as a blonde."

 

[TKM]

Well I'm going to keep using the email tag system for the Sept numbers.

For Aquamarine

For Aquamarine!

NPD doesn't mess around. Even before the crackdowns, I wouldn't have shared any sales data. I could get access through a secondary source and it would still be too close to the source for comfort.

Aquamarine and creamsugar really don't receive enough appreciation for their risk.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Here you go

NPD Results for Every Month Going Forward

1. PS4, Lots But Not Enough to Ward Off Hindle
2. Xbone
3. Firmware updates
4. 3ds
5. Dead frogs
6. vita

Dead frogs is rising from the ashes. Must be the bundles.

Better than expected for Firmware updates. The revision should help.

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

Here you go

NPD Results for Every Month Going Forward

1. PS4, Lots But Not Enough to Ward Off Hindle
2. Xbone
3. Firmware updates
4. 3ds
5. Dead frogs
6. vita

 

[Verendus]

Most importanty, I think the Age of One can really truly begin now. I no longer need to deal with people trying to throw facts around, because you just don't have them.

PR speak is just PR. It means nothing.

The time has come now. Master Chief is going to right this ship.

 

[xxracerxx]

Just so I understand this.

You have two posters who provide you some data, which they shouldn't, but they do, and it's a good thing for discussion on this forum, especially for those who are really involved with the sales discussion on these forums. Now, you've somehow ruined that for yourselves, because there were disagreements about the methods of providing this data.

Some users are real sticks in the mud.

Most importanty, I think the Age of One can really truly begin now. I no longer need to deal with people trying to throw facts around, because you just don't have them.

The age of Hindlenomics begins! XBO sales always within 5k of PS4. Unless over, of course.

 

[kswiston]

I'm not surprised to be fair. There are plenty of insane, and entertaining, things that happen on this forum. I just think if people care enough, then sometimes it's best to not complicate matters, especially if you don't have the dealing hand.

The way I see it, over 1100 people have posted in this thread so far. 99% of us could be completely on board with what Aqua and others were trying to do, and really appreciate what our leakers do for us. However, you would still have a dozen people fucking it up. It just comes with the territory of being this big.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

So now we don't get numbers anymore?? Damn it, why'd people have to argue with her using the tags. NPD threads are dead to me.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Ironically this is now happening anyway thanks to people like you.

Thanks for that. Real mature. Also, thanks for only posting the half of what I said, removing the part where I said that she's well within her rights to do what she wants.

However, obviously she needs to take big precautions with how she relays that info, and if it means there's no info at all without her talking in code then there's nothing much more to say about it.

I haven't said a single word on the matter beyond questioning a request for a members only style spoilers tag and why juniors would be excluded. I have not, to my memory, said anything directly to anyone about the entire subject, beyond playing devil's advocate to some posts, explaining why some people might dislike the secrecy. At no point did I intend to imply that she should risk her own neck in order to appease the masses. In fact I made sure to state that she's the leaker, so whatever she says goes.

But please, feel free to take it out on me.

 

[TypuyBaran]

So the highest selling new IP ever is revealed and your reaction is "Oh my god guys this sold horribly! Look at how much money it cost to make and market! It's obviously a failure!"

But when the XB1 is outsold by 1 million units in its most favorable market despite literally giving away a free game with purchase and also having R&D, marketing and production costs far higher than any game your reaction is "Meh it's doing fine."

Yeah that makes total sense.

I made zero, non, not one, zilch comments about cost of destiny etc. You have me confused with a different poster.

 

[Verendus]

I hope you all are ready for October's NPD.

I'll be sure to provide everyone with the fantastic results of Sunset Overdrive, the recovery of Forza Horizon 2 from a slow start to becoming one of the best selling titles of the month, Xbox One's first win since December last year, and the Wii U's descent to falling behind even the Playstation Vita.

Bright times ahead.

 

[Nirolak]

Only 3M, how terrible. Kotick am cry. What is this nonsense?

Also, I'd have to look into it more, but I don't think we're anywhere near the holiday sales spike. This is September NPD, it's not even CYQ4.

Meanwhile, I have to agree with kaching, segmentation is useful, from stock standard demographic segmentation to more nuanced segmentation focused on behaviours and psychographics. I don't really understand the opposition to using it as a tool for analysis.

Correct, November and December are the true holiday spike even if we see major successes in September and October.

 

[orochi91]

Seriously?

Aqua got perma'd?

She was the shining cherry on that cream sugar pie D':

And this happened at the worst time imaginable, right before the holiday season NPDs !

 

[Cess007]

I hope you all are ready for October's NPD.

I'll be sure to provide everyone with the fantastic results of Sunset Overdrive, the recovery of Forza Horizon 2 from a slow start to becoming one of the best selling titles of the month, Xbox One's first win since December last year, and the Wii U's descent to falling behind even the Playstation Vita.

Bright times ahead.

Without leakers next month, i hope you're prepared. You got a big shoes to fill in

Seriously?

Aqua got perma'd?

She was the shining cherry on that cream sugar pie D':

And this happened at the worst time imaginable, right before the holiday season NPDs !

As far as i know, it was a self-requested ban. She wanted a break from dealing with people demanding how the NPD leaks should be done.

 

[Nirolak]

Seriously?

Aqua got perma'd?

She was the shining cherry on that cream sugar pie D':

And this happened at the worst time imaginable, right before the holiday season NPDs !

No, she requested a 3 month ban.