I can't tell if this post is parody or not.
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Halo 5 beta clips leak (sprint, ADS is *not* COD-style) (more clips and info added)
- Thread starter DopeyFish
- Start date
I can't tell if this post is parody or not.
Dictator93
Member
The assumption that what is modern is some logical step forward for the "betterment" of the game is just a bad assumption. What is en vogue is just en vogue, not some improving progression.
If what you call "extremely outdated" is bad, then I want more games to be "extremely outdated" and bad ratehr then aligning its visual and mechanics with modern tropes.
People continue to conflate 'modern' with 'Call of Duty'.
'Modern' is not a genre of FPS. I don't see 'modern' used before RTS, platformer, RPG, or any other genre except for FPS.
ADS isn't modern. It's meant to simulate realistic tactical aiming down the sights of a gun, and was popular in military sim shooters.
Call of Duty glommed onto it since they wanted to seem more tactical and quasi-realistic, and paired it with Goldeneye's precision aiming, where you traded speed away for precise aim.
So what you're really saying when an FPS needs to "modernize" by having ADS is that you want every game to have Goldeneye's aiming system and Rainbow Six tacticool gun sights. And both games came out before Halo.
It'd be like insisting every platformer must have an item that makes you bigger because Mario does it. You're pushing in a mechanic with no regard to it's effect on rest of the sandbox.
Why would it be parody? Where were the changes in those gameplay mechanics in the Halo series? Since 2001 we're playing pretty much the same game with updated graphics. Firing from the hip as if it's Doom...
I really wanted to like every Halo game, but as my friends said every time: "That new Halo is exactly like the last one, nothing changed"
Facism
Member
I'd argue that in a sea of shyte ideas like ADS and sprinting, Halo can stand on it's own 2 feet and provide what it excels at.
That is, a competitive fps that requires movement and aim combined instead of the "sprint here, stop to aim, hope you saw him first" babby-mode fps design flow. We've got enough of those fps games, no need for another.
Because it seems like an actual beta rather than a demo like many other betas are. They have a year to fix any issues that come up. It's great.
PanicFreak
Member
This thread shows that Halo is now irrelevant /s
ViewtifulJC
Banned
This is really how casuals think. The Halo 5 looks to function exactly like the zoom in Halo has for years, but because it looks like CoD people think something has changed.
Well modern isn't COD for me. But yeah I guess you could easily connect ADS to the COD series. But it's not like just COD uses ADS. Pretty much every shooter does it. And nobody complains.
I think ADS is an important part of an FPS. We're playing the game through the eyes of the hero. And if he aims at someone he would look through his sight. I think that's something that adds to the immersion.
Sure I can see that the hardcore fanbase doesn't want any changes, but everything has to change in some way or another to stay competetive and evolve.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
But those exact things happened when zooming your weapon in all past Halo games, too.
I'm still not sure if it's parody or not, what with the "same game" nonsense and the Doom comparison.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Halo: Reach was the first Halo to include it, but it was only as a powerup. Halo 4 included sprinting as well.
Don't understand why people think this shit is new all of a sudden. It's been in the last two Halo games.
ADS is fine. As long as there is no penalty for staying zoomed out, who the hell cares?
Saw the videos early last night and wanted to respond but didn't have the chance. I actually have no problems with how the movement looked and i'm cool with sprinting being back too. Very fast gameplay looked fun. Definitely more interested in the beta now.
Hahaha oh boy
Hahaha oh boy
I don't know exactly hoe it'll work in the final game. I just saw that blurry 2 second video and read some comments. I'm just saying that I think it would help the series to evolve and add something new to it.
And I think the casuals do matter for such an expensive project as a game made for the rather small hardcore base would be a financial disaster I guess.
If you're competing with COD and sharing the same potential customers you should evolve every now and then.
You seem to think that "evolve" means "add ADS." The franchise, for better or worse, has evolved plenty over the years. It has changed far more than most franchises do.
Barrow Roll
Member
And you're assuming that it's completely functionally different despite evidence to the contrary. Did you look at the pictures? The reticule doesn't change to a red dot when zoomed in, it's the same reticule. I'm not assuming, I'm making an educated guess based on facts we were given in Josh Holme's tweet and what little information I can glean from the video, which is more than you've done.
And here, have another screenshot of the reticule during an ADS transition, it's still completely static.
The gun has a visual kick, but I don't see the reticule position changing or having any kick to go with it, do you? Previous Halo's had transition when zooming in as well, however brief it was, it wasn't instantaneous because that would be really jarring.
And maybe I'm misunderstanding you in regards to FOV, but I'm pretty sure previous Halo's also did this when zooming?
I don't know what you call that if not a reduced FOV.
Twilight Gap
Member
I don't think you or your friends are invested in Halo enough to see why the games aren't really the same at all.
After CE, Halo 2 removed health and fall damage, increased melee damage, decreased grenade power, decreased fuse time on grenades, upped bullet magnetism and aim assist, switched from projectile weapons to hitscan, removed physics on power ups, added vehicle boarding, made all vehicles destructible, added a ranking system, changed movement and jump height, replaced CE Pistol with BR, added playable elites, added dual wielding, accidentally added button combos after cutting them, and featured a radically different design philosophy behind its maps (ladders/teleporters vs lifts/man cannons for example). Then there was matchmaking!
After Halo 2, Halo 3 increased melee lunge and mutual kill window, added aim acceleration, decreased grenade power, decreased grenade fuse time, decreased aim assist, switched back to projectile weapons, decreased effectiveness of dual wielding, lowered grenade limit from 8 to 4 and introduced 2 new grenades, added support weapons, added equipment, changed the ranking system, a different power weapon spawn system, redesigned objectives (assault), slowed down movement speed, made the jump floatier, decreased the field of view, redesigned some weapons (BR, Needler, Carbine, Sniper), had different elite models, removed button combos, redesigned power ups, introduced the Banshee bomb to multiplayer, introduced new vehicles such as the Hornet and Chopper, and also featured a different philosophy behind its maps (linear aggression). Then there was Theater, File Sharing and Forge.
After Halo 3, Reach reintroduced health and fall damage, brought back hitscan weapons, took away melee bleedthrough (opponents always take two melees to die regardless of prior damage so long as they had shields), introduced loadouts, made elites their own unique character model and introduced the dynamic "Invasion" game mode, removed dual wielding, increased aim assist and bullet magnetism, removed 2 grenade types, further slowed down movement and jump height, increased motion blur, nearly removed the ranking system, cooldown when dropping objectives, added armor abilities, added reticle bloom, changed radar to show player elevation, replaced BR with DMR, separated vehicle health from player health, overhauled vehicle controls such as the Banshee, replaced Hornet with Falcon, removed power ups from most maps, increased blast radius on grenades, increased hitboxes for headshots, decreased rate of fire on sniper, replaced some weapons with "older" counterparts, like Focus Rifle and Plasma Repeater, increased field of view, and most of its maps were asymmetric. And let's not forget the significant changes to Firefight or Forge.
After Reach (oh boy), Halo 4 removed health but kept fall damage, added personal ordnance drops (killstreaks), default sprint with increased duration, dumbed down the Covenant AI, introduced Promethean enemies and weapons, more armor abilities with some returning and others being replaced, decreased motion blur, added kill cams, instant respawn, custom loadouts, perks, replaced falcon with mantis, redesigned or replaced some weapons or abilities, added new grenade type, redesigned gametypes (CTF, Flood, Oddball), replaced Invasion with Dominion (domination/conquest), increased bullet magnetism and aim assist, removed the ranking system from in-game, removed camo power up and redesigned overshield, redesigned or rebalanced other weapons (beam rifle), redesigned all the audio effects, reintroduced melee bleedthrough, changed radar to show vehicles, and the maps were HUGE. Also, Spartan Ops.
Am sure there are many things I've missed (or mistaken). The point is that most of these are significant changes. The game has "evolved" every single time, and many fans would argue it's gotten worse. The one true fact is that they've never been the same, which is actually part of the problem. It's why some changes (often unnecessary ones) for the sake of "modernization" would be a mistake.
For once, I'd like to see a Halo game that doesn't fix what isn't broken or feel the need to copy everybody else. Outdated? Perhaps, but the people who didn't buy Halo because it was "the same" clearly wouldn't show up if ADS suddenly appeared. I see no reason for Halo to compromise its identity to try and win them over either. It didn't work the last time
Not just that but I would love to see that in Halo. And that's not because I'm a huge COD fan. Actually I rather hate COD, but I want something new from the series. I even think a third person Halo could be awesome.
I just dont want that hip fire any more. Hip firing reminds me of Duke3D and Shadow Warrior. Yeah it was great and absolute fun then, but that was like 15 years ago...
Right now I really like ADS as it adds that extra immersion to a game as I'm also thinking about singleplayer here. Probably more than multiplayer.
If it truly is a PURELY cosmetic decision, meaning you could potentially attach a scope that acts like the old smart linked ones and it would act the same way...
Not as bad as what was implied originally.
But still fuckin dumb. Change for the sake of change to attract a crowd that believes Halo needs to become more like every other shooter before they pick it up.
Not a big fan of the amount of screen the gun take sup when zoomed now.
EWWWWW fkn GROSS.
There are a few super Halo purists in HaloGAF but the majority are open to change. But smart change. Changes that improve the game and maintain some of its core principles and expand upon them. Halo 1-2-3 did this. Reach started to falter and Halo 4 went off the deep end.
Some of these core principles that every big Halo fan can agree upon is
1. Arena based shooter: Everyone starts with the same weapons and same abilities and you have to fight to control the map and control the weapon and powerup spawns which are static and predictable.
2. Gunplay should be fluid. No one that consistently plays Halo wants to trade mobility for aiming (its why sprint is controversial, but probably here to stay anyway) ADS without hipfire would ruin this. Halo firefights have always been about being able to strafe, run, jump etc all while maintaining perfect aim. It's what makes Halo's combat stand out in a myriad of shooters where the gameplay soley consists of SPRINT TO ACTION - LEFT TRIGGER TO AIM DOWN SIGHTS - STAY IN THE SAME 3 FOOT CIRCLE AS YOU SHOOT ENEMIES.
Halo Reach and 4 broke rule #1. Reach broke Rule #2 somewhat with its bloom.
Not as bad as what was implied originally.
But still fuckin dumb. Change for the sake of change to attract a crowd that believes Halo needs to become more like every other shooter before they pick it up.
Not a big fan of the amount of screen the gun take sup when zoomed now.
EWWWWW fkn GROSS.
There are a few super Halo purists in HaloGAF but the majority are open to change. But smart change. Changes that improve the game and maintain some of its core principles and expand upon them. Halo 1-2-3 did this. Reach started to falter and Halo 4 went off the deep end.
Some of these core principles that every big Halo fan can agree upon is
1. Arena based shooter: Everyone starts with the same weapons and same abilities and you have to fight to control the map and control the weapon and powerup spawns which are static and predictable.
2. Gunplay should be fluid. No one that consistently plays Halo wants to trade mobility for aiming (its why sprint is controversial, but probably here to stay anyway) ADS without hipfire would ruin this. Halo firefights have always been about being able to strafe, run, jump etc all while maintaining perfect aim. It's what makes Halo's combat stand out in a myriad of shooters where the gameplay soley consists of SPRINT TO ACTION - LEFT TRIGGER TO AIM DOWN SIGHTS - STAY IN THE SAME 3 FOOT CIRCLE AS YOU SHOOT ENEMIES.
Halo Reach and 4 broke rule #1. Reach broke Rule #2 somewhat with its bloom.
Flintty
Member
Primethius
Banned
People saying Sprint has been in two Halo games are missing the point. Yes, sprint was in Halo: Reach and 4. Guess what? They are widely considered by Halo fans to be the worst Halo games, by a considerable margin.
Reach MP was awful with bloom and the armor abilities and 4 was just... bad.
Reach MP was awful with bloom and the armor abilities and 4 was just... bad.
HiredN00bs
Member
It's so refreshing to see Halo get with the times and implement proper iron-sights mechanics.
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/reviews/egm-review-halo-4/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43904115&postcount=2219
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/reviews/egm-review-halo-4/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43904115&postcount=2219
But I'll be too busy playing Halo 2 multiplayer to care. =)They'll have a reveal tonight
cartoon_soldier
Member
They'll have a reveal tonight
What time is the reveal?
There is a story reason Halo doesn't have ADS actually. Spartans HUDs are connected to the gun so when they soon the display is put up on their HUD rather than having to ADS
Twilight Gap
Member
i have to admit driving halo's vehicles after destiny's made me feel like i was going in slow mo for a moment.
nothing on the quality of them. just an observation.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/08/ign-is-streaming-halo-fest-on-monday
8pm pacific; 11pm eastern
Twilight Gap
Member
StarskySilverz
Member
It honestly doesn't seem like you were that big of a fan of Halo. What is disappointing is that 343 would rather cater to players with your mind set. I'm not really a big fan of Starcraft and I don't know much about the small mechanics that make it what it is so I don't try to suggest them getting a nuke kill streak/power up. I feel as if Halo has lost it's identity/integrity but that may please you and your friends. Oh well.
i dont remember sprint being bad in halo reach. maybe because that particular AA was overshadowed by much more troublesome AAs like armorlock and jetpack
but yeah i've come to the realization that "halogaf" was right all along and sprint is damaging to halo.
Well, if you preloaded it then the event will happen before launch. I'll be busy too later
It's at 11 EST I believe.
Dictator93
Member
1. Do not take dev's twitter words for fact. The "feel of 60 fps," ubisoft dev statements, whatever, they are all filtered and directed words to generate hype and or reduce damage.
2. To get into what I mean by it being inherently functionally different despite it being purportedly "wholly cosmetic". See below:
a. Notice how much more screen space is clear of objects in the halo 2 shot. That is FOV, not just the arc of degrees fromcamera origin. "The field of View" in halo 5 with ADS up is smaller because a massive gun sight is taking up almost half the screen.
b.The gun kick and the muzzle flash in the middle of the screen also is a function difference. The previous halo games just had the tracer rounds and impact effects at the location with perhaps a tiny tiny bit of screen shake (which did not change te reticle position). Almost nothing got between you and your target or expressly changed tyour ability to view the stuff in front of you. Here there is a gun that is moving, a muzzle flaring, etc...
c. The reticle not changing doesn't matter. The rest of the screen is now getting in the way of your shooting and peripheral vision. In previous games, this way just a slightly greyer darker edge of the screen. Now it is a big 3d model with flashy effects.
and why? Because other games use iron sights and ADS. All of those functional and usability changes for the sake of attracting people who have no idea what makes halo gameplay halo gameplay in the first place. They claim it is comsteic, but these cosmetics (regardless of whether or not actual bullet spread changes in ADS) change how the game functions and the player can realistically function.
It's not 'hip fire' in Halo. Arena shooters don't change the firing state of the gun based on if you're zoomed or not.
The reason ADS increases your precision in CoD is because they also take away most of your movement while ADSing. This is not how arcade shooters play at all. Strafing would basically become non-existent.
gaming_noob
Member
Looking forward to the beta footage. Show us your best, 343i
Kssio_Aug
Member
Calm down its not like this. Also they've already said the ADS wont penalty anything. Theres no flinch when not using it and no movement penalty when using it. So it really may be just like sniper zoom; when the scopes will only be used when you find more appropriate (and not every time like you do on BF or CoD). Maybe it wont be a good idea; or maybe it will... The Halo 5 beta is there to run some tests.
I would be worried about the sprint only. I can understand people not receiving very well this sprint idea, since when you sprint you dont shoot; and sprint also kind of limitates your movements. But lets see how that will be implemented.
1. Do not take dev's twitter words for fact. The "feel of 60 fps," ubisoft dev statements, whatever, they are all filtered and directed words to generate hype and or reduce damage.
2. To get into what I mean by it being inherently functionally different despite it being purportedly "wholly cosmetic". See below:
a. Notice how much more screen space is clear of objects in the halo 2 shot. That is FOV, not just the arc of degrees fromcamera origin. "The field of View" in halo 5 with ADS up is smaller because a massive gun sight is taking up almost half the screen.
b.The gun kick and the muzzle flash in the middle of the screen also is a function difference. The previous halo games just had the tracer rounds and impact effects at the location with perhaps a tiny tiny bit of screen shake (which did not change te reticle position). Almost nothing got between you and your target or expressly changed tyour ability to view the stuff in front of you. Here there is a gun that is moving, a muzzle flaring, etc...
c. The reticle not changing doesn't matter. The rest of the screen is now getting in the way of your shooting and peripheral vision. In previous games, this way just a slightly greyer darker edge of the screen. Now it is a big 3d model with flashy effects.
and why? Because other games use iron sights and ADS. All of those functional and usability changes for the sake of attracting people who have no idea what makes halo gameplay halo gameplay in the first place. They claim it is comsteic, but these cosmetics (regardless of whether or not actual bullet spread changes in ADS) change how the game functions and the player can realistically function.
IF.this.is.just.a.visual.chage.the.i'm.all.for.it.greatly.prefer.the.*look.of.ADS
EDIT:roke.keyoard.
I prefer to be able to see.
1. Do not take dev's twitter words for fact. The "feel of 60 fps," ubisoft dev statements, whatever, they are all filtered and directed words to generate hype and or reduce damage.
2. To get into what I mean by it being inherently functionally different despite it being purportedly "wholly cosmetic". See below:
a. Notice how much more screen space is clear of objects in the halo 2 shot. That is FOV, not just the arc of degrees fromcamera origin. "The field of View" in halo 5 with ADS up is smaller because a massive gun sight is taking up almost half the screen.
b.The gun kick and the muzzle flash in the middle of the screen also is a function difference. The previous halo games just had the tracer rounds and impact effects at the location with perhaps a tiny tiny bit of screen shake (which did not change te reticle position). Almost nothing got between you and your target or expressly changed tyour ability to view the stuff in front of you. Here there is a gun that is moving, a muzzle flaring, etc...
c. The reticle not changing doesn't matter. The rest of the screen is now getting in the way of your shooting and peripheral vision. In previous games, this way just a slightly greyer darker edge of the screen. Now it is a big 3d model with flashy effects.
and why? Because other games use iron sights and ADS. All of those functional and usability changes for the sake of attracting people who have no idea what makes halo gameplay halo gameplay in the first place. They claim it is comsteic, but these cosmetics (regardless of whether or not actual bullet spread changes in ADS) change how the game functions and the player can realistically function.
Exactly! ADS needs to go back to COD. I thought 343 learned from Halo 4's mistakes and the MCC nostalgia showed them why people are so excited. It seems like they've learned but maybe not as much as we hoped.
Will I still buy Halo 5.... Yep. Will i still play the Beta.... Yep. Has my current state of hype died a little.... Yep!
So when can I see some Halo 5 gameplay again? 11 PM est? That's, what, around 10 hours from now?
Reading that post still makes me sad. Halo 4 was supposed to be so good
Or even alright lol
Reading that post still makes me sad. Halo 4 was supposed to be so good
Or even alright lol
Unity2012
Member
Isn't it too early to worry that much about it?
The Beta (Almost one year earlier), will prove them right or wrong on their decisions. Once people get their hands on the Beta and try these--supposedly added changes, the crowd will let them know if development is moving or NOT in the right direction.
I want to believe that 343i will be open and flexible to listen to the fans and make the necessary adjustments.
The Beta (Almost one year earlier), will prove them right or wrong on their decisions. Once people get their hands on the Beta and try these--supposedly added changes, the crowd will let them know if development is moving or NOT in the right direction.
I want to believe that 343i will be open and flexible to listen to the fans and make the necessary adjustments.
Don't see how they can remove sprint in a year. They would have to remake every map.
Poodlestrike
Banned
That's def what you saw. We've known about that map for a while.
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