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I hate shoulder buttons. Why are they a thing?

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
Ever since I went from my NES to SNES as a kid I never understood these buttons. They suck. They are not in a place where your hand naturally rests on a controller. To hit them you have to cramp up your entire hand and lose all back support.

And yet, controllers keep getting worse at this. These controllers with bumpers/shoulder buttons and triggers that use both to play? No.

Triggers alone are fine. I think the placement of the z button on the n64 controller is a good example of a back button where your finger naturally rests. Or something like the triggers of the dualshock.

If a game uses these stupid buttons, I will not use them unless absolutely necessary. The worst is on handheld consoles. Adding to the hilarity, sometimes handhelds have fucking sliders or switches for power or volume and stuff on the side of the system, right where your hands will need to be if you need to have access to the shoulder buttons.

So yeah, if you make controllers and are reading this how about you just do double triggers or something next time? Thanks.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
What a weird opinion. Shoulder buttons fit naturally how I hold the controller.

This and the whole drinks not thick enough thread makes me think your body hates normality.
 

ThisOne

Member
Now that I think about it, why don't they put the should buttons on the DS4 on the back of the two handles instead of on the top of the controller? It would feel more natural to press them. Maybe you'd accidentally press them too often when gripping the controller?
 

Dryk

Member
It's because after 25 years you're still holding controllers like they're NES controllers instead of like controllers with shoulder buttons. It's the same reason why after growing up with the N64 and Gamecube controller I can't comprehend the claw, or having fingers on both triggers and shoulders at once.
 
The alternative is to have six face buttons, like the OG Xbox controller. If hitting them makes you lose back-support, you're likely holding the controller wrong. They're really the only place where they can be put and still allow a controller to be used fluidly. Otherwise, see the Xbox OG, where instead of shoulder buttons, you have an additional two more buttons that require taking a thumb off the right stick.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Eliminating shoulder buttons, but not triggers, should be the next step in controller comfort. Move those shoulder buttons behind the controller where your middle, or even ring, fingers have easy access.
 

dude

dude
I actually agree with OP to a degree. I can never find a comfortable grip with games that require constant use of shoulder buttons.
But then again, I've always been mostly a PC gamer, so I never really gotten used to controllers in any form.
 

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
So say you do the loser sign with your left hand. You're telling me that inside part of your index finger that makes the sticky up part of the L isn't normally used to hold the back of your controller?

Where is all the support coming from?

Eliminating shoulder buttons, but not triggers, should be the next step in controller comfort. Move those shoulder buttons behind the controller where you middle, or even ring, fingers have easy access.

Yes thank you.
 
I don't really like them either. Especially on 3DS and Vita, they're really uncomfortable to use. Way more comfortable to keep your fingers on the back of the system.

I think they can be nice in some 3D games for rotating the camera though; L for left, R for right. Just don't put anything vital there.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
So say you do the loser sign with your left hand. You're telling me that inside part of your index finger that makes the sticky up part of the L isn't normally used to hold the back of your controller?

Where is all the support coming from?

Hold it like a real person.

JYPuChx.jpg
 

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Eliminating shoulder buttons, but not triggers, should be the next step in controller comfort. Move those shoulder buttons behind the controller where your middle, or even ring, fingers have easy access.

There's a reason the Z button isn't where it was on the N64 anymore. Your idea would lead to many frustrating accidental pressings of buttons.
 

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
There's a reason the Z button isn't where it was on the N64 anymore. Your idea would lead to many frustrating accidental pressings of buttons.

I don't follow how this would happen? Unless you are letting the entire weight of the controller sit on that one part of that one finger? You can grip around that button and then squeeze when necessary, it's right there.
 

Duxxy3

Member
There's a reason the Z button isn't where it was on the N64 anymore. Your idea would lead to many frustrating accidental pressings of buttons.

Try a scuf and tell me you get accidental presses.

edit: and the Z button is essentially where a trigger is on your normal controller
 

Phu

Banned
I'm sitting here with a DS4, desperately trying to figure out how shoulder buttons don't fit into how someone would naturally hold a controller.

Although I do like the idea of having buttons on the back where my middle fingers tend to rest. [But I would like that in addition to the shoulder buttons]
 

tuxfool

Banned
There's a reason the Z button isn't where it was on the N64 anymore. Your idea would lead to many frustrating accidental pressings of buttons.

yup, you will find that people in the heat of the moment will grip the controller more tightly. Putting the buttons in that location makes very easy to accidentally press.
 
I certainly don't hate them, they're great for changing weapons or throwing grenades etc. and it really comes down to how devs program them or give you the freedom to customize (I still don't understand why you can't re-map buttons in every game... seems like such an easy thing to implement).

I definitely can't cover all 4 at once though, I just put my 2 index fingers on the triggers and use those for the shoulder buttons when I need to. I've never been able to get comfortable with having all 4 covered and needing to use my middle fingers for the triggers, so if a game requires that, I'm out.
 

nick_b

Member
So say you do the loser sign with your left hand. You're telling me that inside part of your index finger that makes the sticky up part of the L isn't normally used to hold the back of your controller?

Where is all the support coming from?

Your other three fingers?
 

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
They are literally buttons at your fingertips.

My fingertips are where the triggers would be. Not the shoulder buttons. Hold a dualshock while ignoring those bumpers up top. That's how I want it naturally. Double triggers.

Your other three fingers?

Assuming index fingers on bumbers, that leaves middle fingers for triggers (Which is already a disaster)

Then you only have pinky and ring for support. Look at that pic of the the person holding a ds4. That pinky is supporting nothing. So basically we have one ring finger holding the controller. If you play lying down this isn't gonna work.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
UGH look at where that pinky is. Is that supposed to be comfortable for long periods of time? And where do you put the ring finger?

Ummm wrapped around the grip? Yes it will be comfortable for hours. I usually have my pinky and ring finger around the grip there while my middle finger sits along the back behind the analog sticks in that little nook between grip and body.
 
I know people gave the xbox one shoulder buttons a hard time at launch but I think they are perfect. Just roll your finger over a little. If you are hitting it with your fingertip you are doing it wrong.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Assuming index fingers on bumbers, that leaves middle fingers for triggers (Which is already a disaster)

You mover your index finger from trigger to shoulder buttons...you don't hover all fingers over all buttons.
 

Eidan

Member
Can't handle liquids or shoulder buttons. Got it.

In all seriousness, I've never, ever had a problem with shoulder buttons.
 

Orayn

Member
Can't you just move your index finger a short distance to hit the shoulder buttons like you move your thumb for different face buttons?
 

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
They're buttons on the back of a controller.... So there is more room on the front....

That's the problem, they are not on the back. They are on the top. If they were on the back things would be awesome.
 

dude

dude
Ummm wrapped around the grip? Yes it will be comfortable for hours. I usually have my pinky and ring finger around the grip there while my middle finger sits along the back behind the analog sticks in that little nook between grip and body.

Yeah, but whenever I have to sit for an extended amount with a controller and try to hold it like this - My ring finger will feel "stretched" after a while unless I move the middle finger to join it on the grip - But with some games that are heavy on the shoulder buttons and triggers just my index finger isn't enough.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Assuming index fingers on bumbers, that leaves middle fingers for triggers (Which is already a disaster)
k.

I can hold a controller just fine with the last 2 fingers of each hand. Even if that were not the case the triggers are supposed to be shared with the bumpers.
 
As long as I don't have to hit R1 and R2 (or L1 and L2) at the same time, I couldn't care less. They feel good to me if I only need to devote one finger to them. Two fingers, and the controller starts feeling unwieldy to my hands.
 

JimboJones

Member
yup, you will find that people in the heat of the moment will grip the controller more tightly. Putting the buttons in that location makes very easy to accidentally press.

Lol this is pretty much how the nunchuck is set up and I have never ever accidentally squeezed the Z button on it in the heat of the moment.

As long as I don't have to hit R1 and R2 (or L1 and L2) at the same time, I couldn't care less. They feel good to me if I only need to devote one finger to them. Two fingers, and the controller starts feeling unwieldy to my hands.

Yeah index finger is usually on the triggers then just shift index finger forward to press the shoulder buttons when needed.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Yeah, but whenever I have to sit for an extended amount with a controller and try to hold it like this - My ring finger will feel "stretched" after a while unless I move the middle finger to join it on the grip - But then I can't hit the triggers comfortably.

Then that is just a problem with your hand/s.
 
They're buttons on the back of a controller.... So there is more room on the front....

I don't think most games need so many buttons though. Clever use of the sideways Wii remote really made me believe a d-pad, two buttons, and a couple ancillary buttons is enough for most games I want to play.

I don't play shooters though and avoid fighting games.
 
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